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ozglobal
Posts: 2596
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:33 am

I find the level of ignorance and paranoia displayed by some people in the US in the face of such innocent behaviour to be incredible. I'm not a fan of Islam nor many aspects of Arab culture, but these guys are behaving in a perfectly innocent and constitutionally sanctioned manner. The fact that they were detained, rather than the panic merchants is outrageous.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
CplKlinger
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:05 pm

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:47 am

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 50):
I find the level of ignorance and paranoia displayed by some people in the US in the face of such innocent behaviour to be incredible. I'm not a fan of Islam nor many aspects of Arab culture, but these guys are behaving in a perfectly innocent and constitutionally sanctioned manner. The fact that they were detained, rather than the panic merchants is outrageous.

I'm an American and I'm with you. A lot (not all now, don't get your knickers in a twist) of Americans are just plain stupid about people from around the world. I am friends with people from all over the world, and tons of religions, and I feel like it's made me a better person for it. I trust my Sikh neighbors across the street more than some of the white people that live near me. The worst thing they do is torture me with the incredible smell of their cooking in the summer.

I'm not saying that Southwest shouldn't have addressed it, but they could have handled this better in a way that both made the idiots complaining about it feel better, and not slight the folks speaking Arabic. That being said, my travel money will be spent elsewhere. Delta seems to be pretty much matching them in price for my trip next summer and I'll get to add new types/locations to my list as well!
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9386
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:15 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 42):
Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 40):
And how they suffer under such persecution, why they cannot even board airplanes and act normally without someone calling the authorities on them.

Your analogy fails in every way.

1) They were allowed to board.

2) The authorities were called by the Arab men themselves.

3) No one in this situation was "persecuted".

They were aloud to board, after they called the authorities about being denied to board. And the airline should have offered an apology.
 
PEK777
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:56 pm

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:57 pm

The new episodes of South Park are right, it is ridiculous how much this PC crap has gotten out of control and how society has transformed into a bunch of single chromosome wussies. All over media and social media there is a witch hunt if you suggest Islam had anything to do with attacks, yet a bunch of stuff defending Islam and trying to disconnect them from terrorism keeps getting shoved down the public's throat.

90% of the Americans replying to this thread are falling for this and bashing their own country because of their own weakness and fear to speak up. Man up, make America great again.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9386
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:25 pm

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 53):
The new episodes of South Park are right, it is ridiculous how much this PC crap has gotten out of control and how society has transformed into a bunch of single chromosome wussies. All over media and social media there is a witch hunt if you suggest Islam had anything to do with attacks, yet a bunch of stuff defending Islam and trying to disconnect them from terrorism keeps getting shoved down the public's throat.

90% of the Americans replying to this thread are falling for this and bashing their own country because of their own weakness and fear to speak up. Man up, make America great again.

As there is no mentioning of the religious affiliation, how do you get the connection to Islam?
 
CplKlinger
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:05 pm

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:17 pm

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 53):
90% of the Americans replying to this thread are falling for this and bashing their own country because of their own weakness and fear to speak up. Man up, make America great again.

Being afraid of someone because they are speaking Arabic or look like they are middle eastern is not making America great. Hell, a lot of people confuse Sikhs with Muslims, and they aren't anywhere close. They just see something on their head and call it Muslim. Racism and intolerance isn't making America great again. It makes us no better than the Nazi's or the old Jim Crow supporters.

Making America great is being able to call a spade a spade, but also being open to others. I support eliminating each and every member of ISIS and Al Quaeda without prejudice. But I don't care if Syrian refugees would move in next door to me. I don't care if they fly on a flight I'm on. I don't care if they speak Arabic. We don't flip out when people speak Spanish here do we? No. So why does Spanish get a pass and Arabic doesn't? Especially when the cartels in Mexico have been making ISIS look like preschool thugs with some of the stuff they do?
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:15 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 26):
2) His style of posting is his own to choose.

Uh, actually there are rules about that.

Quoting brewfangrb (Reply 34):
I assume you're joking, right?

I'm sorry that I didn't make a mountain out of a molehill for you, but I do live here as well, interact with people of many ethnicities and religions, employee people of various ethnicities and religions, and I guess I'm just lucky to see everyone always getting along.

Maybe you should find a better place to live than the city you are in?

Quoting brewfangrb (Reply 34):
He was not trolling.

Without an emoticon or some other signal, that is left up to each poster to decide. He didn't make an effort to signal it was satire/sarcasm.

Quoting brewfangrb (Reply 34):
Some whackjob redneck

You know who it was?

Quoting barney captain (Reply 45):
Can I add you to my "negative respected users list"?

Yes, please.

I probably won't come back to this thread, so I apologize if someone responds to me and I don't get back to them. It's just too frustrating seeing a person denied boarding turned into yet another Bash-America Fest. Especially when fellow American's are practically falling over themselves trying to make sure that everyone knows how open-minded they are and how lousy this country really is to anyone that isn't "like them".

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
N415XJ
Posts: 887
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RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:34 pm

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 53):

The new episodes of South Park are right, it is ridiculous how much this PC crap has gotten out of control and how society has transformed into a bunch of single chromosome wussies.

Yeah, South Park is right on the money. It's infuriating that there's liberal idiots who have taken college campuses hostage in order to create a "safe space". I'll never forget that one quote from a Yale student: "It's not about creating an intellectual environment! It's about creating a home here!" If, for example, the passenger mentioned to her seatmate that hearing Arabic spoken made her nervous, and was then removed from the plane for invading the 'safe spaces' of the men, I would agree with you that it's nonsense. However, these two came very close to being completely denied their right to use the tickets they paid for, for the sole reason that they were speaking Arabic. Things were only settled when the cops were called. It's all over and things were set right, but if these men had been recent immigrants with limited English skills and had not thought to call the cops, it's very likely they wouldn't have been allowed back on. It was a stupid incident, but it shows us that it's possible for someone to get kicked off a plane for no reason other than the fear and racism of a passenger. PC culture, particularly in universities, is complete BS, but this is different.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3165
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 53):
The new episodes of South Park are right, it is ridiculous how much this PC crap has gotten out of control and how society has transformed into a bunch of single chromosome wussies. All over media and social media there is a witch hunt if you suggest Islam had anything to do with attacks, yet a bunch of stuff defending Islam and trying to disconnect them from terrorism keeps getting shoved down the public's throat.

90% of the Americans replying to this thread are falling for this and bashing their own country because of their own weakness and fear to speak up. Man up, make America great again.

Once again you come here writing gibberish just to get a rinse out of people, go back under your bridge.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3165
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:31 pm

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 57):

Yeah, South Park is right on the money. It's infuriating that there's liberal idiots who have taken college campuses hostage in order to create a "safe space". I'll never forget that one quote from a Yale student: "It's not about creating an intellectual environment! It's about creating a home here!" If, for example, the passenger mentioned to her seatmate that hearing Arabic spoken made her nervous, and was then removed from the plane for invading the 'safe spaces' of the men, I would agree with you that it's nonsense. However, these two came very close to being completely denied their right to use the tickets they paid for, for the sole reason that they were speaking Arabic. Things were only settled when the cops were called. It's all over and things were set right, but if these men had been recent immigrants with limited English skills and had not thought to call the cops, it's very likely they wouldn't have been allowed back on. It was a stupid incident, but it shows us that it's possible for someone to get kicked off a plane for no reason other than the fear and racism of a passenger. PC culture, particularly in universities, is complete BS, but this is different.

Trying to use a comedy tv show as proof something exists, and taking some quote out of context to justify your beliefs, children can only get away with that on the internet.

Neither of your comments belong on this site, and they are the textbook definition of trolling. What you do not understand is the treatment of kids on college campuses is almost exactly like how these Muslims were treated trying to get on the airplane. They face sexism, racism and other hate that they do not deserve to experience while trying to get an education and further their life. And you just mock them while defending the rights of a person getting on an airplane without any irony. Kids these days.

[Edited 2015-11-22 11:35:18]
 
Brewfangrb
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:13 am

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 48):
We have no idea what the agent was told, other than there was a perceived security risk.

Again, if no action had been taken (and it was minimal) and something happened, people would be screaming bloody foul.

You're right on the latter point. But I'm stumped: If the agent wasn't told anything but "Argle Bargle! Security risk!" then how did the agent know what questions to ask? And if they are "standard questions", how is that at all helpful without knowing the nature of the risk? That's my point: If the agent was told "Pax says they are scared bc they claim the suspicious pax were speaking Arabic", then we're back to my post to which you replied--ask 2 questions and it's over.

If the agent wasn't told that, it's another failure by WN.

Quoting barney captain (Reply 49):
Innumerable?

Or just a few loudmouthed bigots?

Seriously? You REALLY think that discrimination and prejudice toward Muslims or those who "look" Middle Eastern is limited to a "few loudmouthed bigots"? Your experience while living in a mixed marriage is not evidence of anything. (And I admit, my position isn't either, necessarily--but I think you're ignoring the reality of the situation. Perhaps "innumberable" was hyperbolic, but it's certainly not "I'm in a mixed marriage and I can tell you the country is perfectly wonderful"
 
barney captain
Posts: 2349
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:25 pm

Quoting brewfangrb (Reply 60):
innumberable
Quoting brewfangrb (Reply 60):
the country is perfectly wonderful

Does everything have to be so black and white? (no pun intended)  

Are there idiots out there? Sure.

Is everything perfectly wonderful? Of course not.

It seems reasonable to assume a great majority of people would not feel that just because someone is speaking Arabic, that they are a threat.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
N415XJ
Posts: 887
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:04 pm

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:01 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 59):
They face sexism, racism and other hate that they do not deserve to experience while trying to get an education and further their life. And you just mock them while defending the rights of a person getting on an airplane without any irony. Kids these days.

Oh my god, give me a break. Have you seen the videos taken at these protests? Have you read ANY of the backstory at all? Or are you just taking their word for it that they're oppressed? The only 'racism and discrimination' any of these rich liberal kids are facing is people wearing halloween costumes they don't like or jerks (who are probably just drunk idiots) yelling a racial slur at them. They're acting like absolute children, complaining when they get their feelings hurt instead of either 1)ignoring the person hurting their feelings or 2)engaging them in a conversation about it like adults. You don't have the right to not get your feelings hurt in the United States. And how was that quote out of context? Did you watch the entire video? The protesters were arguing that the professor "harmed" them by writing an email which supported the principle of freedom of speech in the context that people should be allowed to wear whatever Halloween costume they like. They don't want an intellectual space at their University. They want to feel comfortable. This is a direct result of parents coddling their kids and protecting them from the realities of life so that they don't get upset.

However, the incident on Southwest WAS DIFFERENT than what the college kids are crying about. The men were removed from the plane for the sole reason that someone didn't like what they sounded like. The airline offered no apology for removing two passengers based on the language they were speaking (even though they were eventually let back on). If the college protests started because a black student was told to leave class because he looked like a 'thug' or something, then the protests would have been justified to a degree and could be equated to the Southwest incident. But that's not what happened. Nobody was wronged in any way beyond hearing a nasty thing some random idiot said.

Also, even though you discredit it, South Park delivers some really good social commentary in the form of satire. Disregarding it as 'just jokes' means that you fail to see that they are making a parody ofan actual problem.

FInally, I fail to see how my posts are 'trolling'. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll. I'm sorry if I invaded your safe space.
 
barney captain
Posts: 2349
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:41 pm

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 62):
The men were removed from the plane for the sole reason that someone didn't like what they sounded like. The airline offered no apology for removing two passengers based on the language they were speaking (even though they were eventually let back on).

They weren't "removed and then let back on", they were briefly questioned prior to boarding.

Big difference.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9386
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:12 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 63):
They weren't "removed and then let back on", they were briefly questioned prior to boarding.

Big difference.

They were told they would not be able to board by the airline staff. Than they called the police. Than it was resolved.

They must at least got the impression that the airline staff had refused them boarding, I do no call that briefly questioned.
Most people do not arrive at the last minute. AFAIK boarding starts 20 to 30 minutes before departure. As this led to a 10 minutes delay the "brief questioning" can well have taken half an hour.

As a defender of the airline, be glad they were not denied boarding as than the airline would properly face a law suite that would not be easy to defend against.
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:39 am

How close to McCarthyism do we have to get before cooler and smarter heads prevail? Paris has people hiding under beds about Syrian refugees...as if terrorists have finally gotten the brilliant idea that they could be walking hundreds of miles with what little their families can carry, or paying their life's savings for the privilege to ride in things that can only be called boats because they sometimes float, just to carry out terror attacks in the west.

It's almost like they couldn't have managed to figure out for themselves that it's a piece of cake to get a tourist visa to the west, just like hundreds of millions of people do every year. I mean, what the hell? Who is so bloody naive to think that the only way that terrorists could get in is by putting themselves through hell just to declare refugee status?

Right now, there are 3.5 million people who consider themselves Arab American, living in the US....1% of the population. man...stuff should be blowing up like crazy...all across America. There are over 55 million Muslims living in Europe. What have all of those terrorists been doing until now? Did they miss some memos, or something?

There are over 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet. Are they all terrorists? I doubt it. Is the issue to do with Muslims in general or Arabs in particular? I have seen a lot of comments in western papers extolling the virtues of nuking the middle east to get rid of all of the Muslims then the world would be a safer place. The fact that Muslims are, by far, the most frequent victims of Muslim terrorism doesn't seem to click. Kill them all and let God sort them out.

The fact that the US, UK and France are, right now, helping Saudi destroy the poorest country in the middle east, kill thousands of Yemenis, wound tens of thousands and putting over 20 million civilians in mortal danger doesn't even make the smallest splash. They get even more bonus points by selling the Saudis more bombs....yay. But when those guys bomb us....that's something else. Nuke 'em all. Where are the protests for those deaths? For letting al qaeda take over yet another country and terrorize its citizens? Nah...they're the wrong colour, dress and talk funny and are far away.

The irony of protesting mindless death by advocating even more mindless death on an even greater scale, boggles the mind.

Turns out that only 20% of the Muslims on Earth live in the middle east and N.Africa. Nuke those places and still that leaves 1.2 billion non Arab Muslim terrorists waiting to blow up your mini mart.

I keep trying to think of ways we could turn this primitive mindset around. Something about repeating history or something...but I can't seem to remember it.

I use the US as an example but the same mindless ranting is going on in Canada, the EU and the rest of the, so called, civilized world.

It's so bloody easy to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that we and our governments are the only victims of terror...that we don't have blood on our hands. Nah....let's just harass the people who look, sound and pray differently while they are on their way to Sioux City, (or wherever), for a visit.

Arab terrorists killed 3000 people on 9/11. That same year, 13,000 people died at the hands of their fellow Americans. In the next 10 years, up to 2011, Arab terrorists were found responsible for 33 American deaths.

In those 10 years, 150,000 Americans were murdered by other Americans. Let me guess...that's not terrorism...that's merely crime...completely different. I will agree that it's certainly more efficient.
What the...?
 
barney captain
Posts: 2349
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:22 am

Interesting JoeC-

That was quite the rant.

Here's the funny thing -

I've never read anything about what their religion is, only that they were Arab.

Are all Arabs Muslim in your estimation?
Southeast Of Disorder
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:42 am

Quoting barney captain (Reply 66):
Are all Arabs Muslim in your estimation?

Statistically, about 80-90% of Arabs are Muslims...the statistics vary depending on where you look. In my time in the middle east, I met a few Christian Arabs. I found that of the people I knew, I guess that about 20% were devout Muslims, 60-70% were casual adherents and the rest were very casual about the rules. That was in public. The proportions of Muslims who practiced what they preached seemed to be about the same as Christians back home.

In private, I knew lots of Muslims who were always up for some bacon and booze...but life is a lot easier if you go along with everyone else in public. I can't recall meeting any Arab Muslims who ever said they had any dislike for Jews...but I don't recall any who claimed to have any fondness for Israel....and yes, there is a distinction.

I'm an atheist, so one invisible friend is much like the next to me, but I do believe that other people believe and if that makes them happy and doesn't screw over anyone else...then who am I to object? I'm certainly in no rush to find out first hand who is right.
What the...?
 
barney captain
Posts: 2349
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:04 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 67):
I'm an atheist, so one invisible friend is much like the next to me, but I do believe that other people believe and if that makes them happy and doesn't screw over anyone else...then who am I to object? I'm certainly in no rush to find out first hand who is right.

Perfectly stated Joe, and I am in complete agreement with you.


FSM  
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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cougar15
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RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:01 pm

I wont go into a missing or lack of openmindedness in certain societies, others with other flags will and have voiced their opinion on that, thankfully generally objectively and fair, rather than this turning into another of the many recent crappy right wing threads. But heck, note my flag , a Country that at present is definetly undoubtedly the one taking the absolut burdon (more or less singlehandedly) of the refugee crisis, taking in and looking after over 100000 of the poor souls monthly.
So just imagine I was to call the cops or stir up a fuss each time I walk into an airport, supermarket or trainstation here in Germany, each time I heard someone talk with arabic or middle eastern accents!
Society would grind to an absolute halt! Thankfully & surely for historic reasons, the Society I live in is well educated & open minded, yes - even welcoming!
Shame that this does not apply to certain countries were partionism & being ill informed causes situations such as this one.

[Edited 2015-11-23 04:10:09]
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: SWA Flight Delayed Because Pax Spoke Arabic

Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:17 pm

This thread has gone from aviation to religious discussion/bashing and thus will be archived.
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