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flyabr
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DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:34 pm

Hummm...interesting tidbit!

http://goo.gl/zNR7Ct
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:41 pm

I can't imagine that Boeing is happy with DL by making those comments. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a wide body bubble coming with especially when it comes to the used ME3 aircraft, but I would think that $10mil is quite low.
 
flyabr
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:43 pm

Wonder if this was connected to the last RFP? I could see Boeing offering moderately used 777s when DL rejected new 77Ls as a stop gap to 789 deliveries.
 
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enilria
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:47 pm

This is also tied into DL's moves against EXIM which Boeing supports.
 
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:57 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 1):
I can't imagine that Boeing is happy with DL by making those comments.

If they had a NDA then they have a reason to be mad. If not, then they can deal.

You don't "ask" your associates not to talk. You refuse to talk until they agree in writing.
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sxf24
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:10 pm

According to Ascend, Boeing owns 1 used ex-Scoot 777. I think it's in pretty good shape, since it went through a C-Check before Boeing bought it, and I would be surprised if Boeing would offer it for sale at $10 million. That's totally contrary to Boeing's motivation to keep the secondary market and values for the 777 strong. Boeing doesn't have any other used 777s. I wonder what Richard is really talking about?

Delta bought a 747 from KAL and Boeing owns some others. I wonder if Richard confused a 747 and 777? The sales price of a 747-400 is probably closer to $10 million.
 
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Siren
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:17 pm

Of course Boeing is pissed, this whole episode between Delta and Boeing sent Boeing's share prices on the biggest crash/tumble in a year. They've since recovered, but, nothing angers a company more than damage to their market valuation. It just goes to show you that the numbers bandied about publicly are really unknown except to those who actually write the checks inside the companies...

And I do believe that there is going to be a massive surplus of frames on the used market that will substantially drive costs down. Just a matter of time...
 
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par13del
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting flyabr (Reply 2):
Wonder if this was connected to the last RFP? I could see Boeing offering moderately used 777s when DL rejected new 77Ls as a stop gap to 789 deliveries.

Why would Boeing offer used a/c against new a/c in a RFP contest? Airbus offered the A330 / A350, Boeing offered the 787 / 777, DL had already delayed its 787's deliveries so......
 
Sooner787
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:30 pm

DL can brag all they want about gently used widebody purchases, but the
future of long haul belongs to the 787 and A350, and the 779's if they pump the same kind
of atmosphere in their cabins as the 787's .

As more and more of those jets enter service, the flying public will come to expect
the level of comfort that comes from those cabins with more humidity and lower pressure.

We have numerous clients already that seek out 787 flights whenever they're available.
Some will even bypass a nonstop flight on , say a 744, for a connector that places them
aboard a 787 for a transpacific flight
 
Ruscoe
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:41 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
You don't "ask" your associates not to talk. You refuse to talk until they agree in writing.[/quote



[quote=par13del,reply=7]Why would Boeing offer used a/c against new a/c in a RFP contest?




There is still a lot of "trust" involved in business, even at top levels involving a lot of money.
One possibility is that they were competing with prices they know they could not match with a new aircraft. The numbers may have worked for the used aircraft, but not for the new aircraft, even with the price cut as low as Boeing would go.

This may have been because both the offers were a "loss leader", where something is sold at a loss with a view to more profitable future sales in mind.

Does anyone know if Delta and Boeing have a good relationship?

Ruscoe
 
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 8):
As more and more of those jets enter service, the flying public will come to expect
the level of comfort that comes from those cabins with more humidity and lower pressure.

...unless the Delta flight is $10 cheaper.

Right now the majority of passengers don't know what airplane type they're flying on, let alone seek one out in particular. I agree that the 787 offers a better ride, but I wouldn't pay a premium for it and I doubt Delta will suffer.
 
flyabr
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:55 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 7):
Why would Boeing offer used a/c against new a/c in a RFP contest?

In hopes they'd secure a 789 order from DL. The new 77Ls were offered up as a stop gap until Boeing could deliver all the 789s that DL wanted in a particular timeframe. But, DL apparently didn't like the idea/price of new 77Ls...so why not offer used 777s (if they are available) as a stop gap instead.? Plus, we all know how much DL likes buying used aircraft when the opportunity presents itself. Seems perfectly logical to me!  

[Edited 2015-11-20 14:56:45]
 
Prost
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:58 pm

I had a customer in Delta One insist I was a moron because Delta is buying A380s. I just smiled graciously, and walked away. He also insisted he was in a 744 when we were flying a 777. I didn't have the stomach to pull out the safety instruction card in his seat pocket.
 
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par13del
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:30 pm

Quoting flyabr (Reply 11):
In hopes they'd secure a 789 order from DL.

DL has 787's on order, they delayed them, so during the RFP if Boeing offered 787's what would be the incentive for DL to take additional 787's when they already delayed their current deliveries?
My take is that Boeing was "solicited" by DL to see how much effect it would have on Airbus prices, the 777's could have been offered with a deep discount, either Boeing did not or it made no difference to DL.
 
flyabr
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:59 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 13):
DL has 787's on order, they delayed them, so during the RFP if Boeing offered 787's what would be the incentive for DL to take additional 787's when they already delayed their current deliveries?

You do realize that part of the RFP was between the 789 and A359, right? DL ended up ordering 25 A359s. Why wouldn't Boeing do it's best to make sure those initial 787 orders were delivered in addition to 7 extra?? Many folks believe that inherited NW order will never be fully executed, and will likely be shifted toward acquisition of another aircraft, especially given the result of the most recent WB RFP.

[Edited 2015-11-20 16:00:39]
 
billreid
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:15 am

At that price I'll take three and use them for Translantic charters.

Based on a ten year straight line depreciation thats less $20,000 per week.
If I run three flights per week equipment costs are only $3,700 per segment.
That works out to a whopping $10 per seat.

Maybe MOL is interested.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:25 am

If you could get decent 777s for $10M per frame, I'd suggest you'd actually see AS dipping their toe in that pond at that point.
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na
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:38 am

Old 777s have been very hard to place somewhere recently. There are quite a lot in storage, dozens, and some for more than two years, so it comes as no surprise if they are up for grabs. Airlines prefer factory new planes nowadays if it comes to big jets.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:01 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 16):

If you could get decent 777s for $10M per frame, I'd suggest you'd actually see AS dipping their toe in that pond at that point.

Since that amount is half of what a 77E is worth, I see no reason Boeing would offer a 777 for half value. Unless... It was part of a larger deal (and thus a rounding error in the total sum). I can see DL wanting short term capacity. Low cost early so it was disposable for a later order of higher value and more profit.

But as we see, a 77E is worth a bunch:
Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Fall 2015 (by LAXintl Nov 10 2015 in Civil Aviation)
B777-200ER – $21.4 – 72.5M, $380-740,000

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dc10lover
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:16 am

I would go for the fuel efficient aircraft. No telling when oil prices will go back up with the wars in the Middle East.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:18 am

Right now Delta has ZERO interest in the 787. Delta has apparently ordered about twenty five A359s along with some more A330-300s and forty five A321s. Delta has some 777s, 737-900s on order with Boeing.
If Boeing is offering Delta some used 777s it may be due the fact that there is only a small amount of used 777s Boeing has to offer, with limited interest from other airlines and Boeing is doing this to keep Delta interested in Boeing wide bodies rather than having more interest in what Airbus aircraft that may be available.
Delta has become more interested in Airbus aircraft since they inherited A320 familiy aircraft and A330s as a result of their "merger" with Northwest Airlines and had the opportunity to experience Airbus aircraft under actual operational conditions.   

[Edited 2015-11-20 17:21:23]
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flyabr
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:31 am

DL doesn't have any 777s on order, but does have some 242T A333s on order, as well as 25 A339NEOs. oh, and that much delayed 788 order ... 
 
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zeke
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:58 am

Sounds like RA is talking about buying them, stripping them for parts, and flipping them.
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par13del
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:23 am

Quoting flyabr (Reply 14):
You do realize that part of the RFP was between the 789 and A359, right?

Yes, and I also know that since they already had 787's on order they could simply have requested Boeing move the delivery dates up or top up the order.
I think it is safe to say the 787 is way down on DL list of new wide body a/c and had no shot in that RFP.
 
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:40 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 23):
Yes, and I also know that since they already had 787's on order they could simply have requested Boeing move the delivery dates

Not necessarily that easy. Supposedly there was a lack of available production slots for the 789 for the time period in which DL wanted to take delivery of said aircraft. Anyway, you are straying away from my original point. Boeing's offer to DL was purportedly for interim new 77Ls to be delivered/utilized UNTIL all 789s could be delivered over a longer period of time. Perhaps DL was sour on new 77Ls so Boeing offered good used, and much cheaper 77Es instead to bridge the gap until all the NEW 789s could be delivered. It's not a leap to digest that, especially given DLs propensity to buy used aircraft. All i'm saying is that perhaps this seemingly low ball figure for used 777s was offered up during RFP negotiations to get DL to buy NEW 789s, and therefore keep them from getting A350s.

[Edited 2015-11-20 18:56:45]
 
910A
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:08 am

I for one, believe Andersen on this. The low end of a value of a 777-200ER according to the Aircraft values and Lease pricing thread was $21m. Pretty sure that the 77E is basically an obsolete aircraft at this point for any major carrier, and if the aircraft was for parting out purposes only, then the price makes sense.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:13 am

This article seems to back up Andersons claims of 777 costing as low as $10mil per plane.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/13367...h-just-10-million-expert-says.html
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:16 am

If they really got offered such a great deal, why didn't they just say "OK, we'll take 200" instread of bragging about it to the press? Perhaps the prices don't include engines and are just frames that could be stripped down for spare parts or something like that.
 
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:29 am

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 27):
If they really got offered such a great deal, why didn't they just say "OK, we'll take 200" instread of bragging about it to the press?

Because DL can't afford to pay 10mil for a 777  

DL go for much older and cheaper birds...  
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:33 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 8):
As more and more of those jets enter service, the flying public will come to expect
the level of comfort that comes from those cabins with more humidity and lower pressure.

There's essentially nil evidence of that happening on any significant scale. History tells us that it won't, at all.



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 10):
...unless the Delta flight is $10 cheaper.

  



Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 19):
I would go for the fuel efficient aircraft.

For which you would be making $1million+ per month in acquisition payments on...

...versus a used one that you just bought in cash, and costs you nothing to park if global events cause the market to severely dip.

There's far more to it than "How much fuel does it burn"
If that was all that mattered, then who would buy used at all?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:39 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 8):
We have numerous clients already that seek out 787 flights whenever they're available.
Some will even bypass a nonstop flight on , say a 744, for a connector that places them
aboard a 787 for a transpacific flight

I would not trade a 744 flight for a 787 flight, love que queen of the skies, and I can put my shade up or down if I want to!

I bet DL will never get the 789´s, they will convert them to 739ER and get them at rock bottom price, and then top off their fleet with more 359 and 339´s...

TRB
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beeweel15
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:55 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 8):
We have numerous clients already that seek out 787 flights whenever they're available.
Some will even bypass a nonstop flight on , say a 744, for a connector that places them
aboard a 787 for a transpacific flight

That cant be that many passengers cause from a comfort point of view the 787 has gotten some very bad public reviews since they switched to the 3*3*3 seating. And this was for flights under 7 hours. I see folks avoiding a transpacific flight on the 787.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:10 am

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 30):
I bet DL will never get the 789´s

Though I know they have the option to make the aircraft whatever derivative they want, why do people keep saying 789?

I'm confused on this, because the original orders were for 788, and if DL really wanted them for an RFP, they could've officially switched those... they didn't.

Besides, hasn't there been word that they're now considering 78J for them, assuming they ever take them?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:15 am

Well its obvious that they would switch to 789 or even k instead of the original sale of 788. I think they are really happy with the A330 and the A350 will cement their preference towards airbus.

Then again RA might buy all the 722 in the desert and use their refinery to fly them...

TRB
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Stitch
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:33 am

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 5):
According to Ascend, Boeing owns 1 used ex-Scoot 777. I think it's in pretty good shape, since it went through a C-Check before Boeing bought it, and I would be surprised if Boeing would offer it for sale at $10 million.

And it is probably a late 1990s low-gross-weight and low-thrust variant with a small aft cargo door (so LD3s only - no pallets) used by Singapore and Scoot for high(er)-frequency regional operations in often hot and humid climates with RR engines that might have high(er) maintenance costs (due to how RR does their spares).

Even with a recent C-check I could see it being worth $10 million in terms of what a potential customer would pay for it. Especially when you figure it would cost about that (minimum) to outfit it for Delta's operations and then they would need to pay Boeing and RR even more to upgrade the weight and thrusts to maximum values.

Without that C-check, it probably would have zero value as a flyable frame.

[Edited 2015-11-20 20:34:23]
 
sxf24
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:42 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
And it is probably a late 1990s low-gross-weight and low-thrust variant with a small aft cargo door (so LD3s only - no pallets) used by Singapore and Scoot for high(er)-frequency regional operations in often hot and humid climates with RR engines that might have high(er) maintenance costs (due to how RR does their spares).

Even with a recent C-check I could see it being worth $10 million in terms of what a potential customer would pay for it. Especially when you figure it would cost about that (minimum) to outfit it for Delta's operations and then they would need to pay Boeing and RR even more to upgrade the weight and thrusts to maximum values.

Without that C-check, it probably would have zero value as a flyable frame.

It's a 1999 airplane and weight and thrust could easily be addressed by Boeing. Regardless, it is a lower value airplane.

What I don't understand is Boeing didn't have it last year during the widebody campaign. So, what airplanes did they offer to Delta? Imaginary ones?
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:00 am

I don't see why everyone is shocked at the low price on used 777s. Airbus and Boeing have both flooded the market with 777/A330 capacity and now that the 787/A350 are entering the fleet, of course there is going to be a sell-off of older 777/A330s.
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LAX772LR
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:37 am

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 35):
So, what airplanes did they offer to Delta? Imaginary ones?

Nope... just ones that would've offered lower revenue potential under DL's future route planning, and/or cost more in acquisition than DL was willing to pay.

If not, then Boeing would've won. Simple as that.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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lightsaber
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:49 am

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 26):

This article seems to back up Andersons claims of 777 costing as low as $10mil per plane.

Interesting. This means spare parts are not worth what they should be. Or more likely configuration (e.g., small cargo doors) and engine specific (less popular engines aren't worth much.

At this time, I would not be surprised if used 777s were worth more on the 2nd hand market as parts than flying airframes.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
And it is probably a late 1990s low-gross-weight and low-thrust variant with a small aft cargo door (so LD3s only - no pallets) used by Singapore and Scoot for high(er)-frequency regional operations in often hot and humid climates with RR engines that might have high(er) maintenance costs (due to how RR does their spares).

I suspect the airframe in question had a low value as a flying airframe.

What is the spares part inventory? This 2 year old link implies 777 parts are rare. So I would have thought more birds would be parted out:
http://aviationweek.com/awin/scarce-777-parts-will-affect-aftermarket

The number of non-flying 777s has crept up to 59:
http://www.airfleets.net/exploit/production-b777.htm

But why the $10 million when the recent value thread had the bottom at double that... Usually those threads are more accurate... So I'll believe that thread until I hear more. 777 Parts should boost the frame value more.

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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:06 am

From the article: "He [Richard Anderson] suggested that newer jets, including the Boeing 787, tend to be less reliable than the older jets Delta maintains with its in-house mechanics, citing its fleet of Boeing MD-88s, which average more than 25 years in age."

I'm guessing the 787 will become more reliable the longer it is in production.. and I also suspect a 787 that has been in Delta's care will end up more reliable than some others. They have an excelent maintenance department.
 
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zeke
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:06 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 38):

Being an SQ C check prob does not add that much value, it will require rework.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
UA444
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:29 am

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 39):

McDonnell Douglas MD-88.
 
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:31 am

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 26):

This article seems to back up Andersons claims of 777 costing as low as $10mil per plane.

That article makes some very outrageous claims that direly need backing up before I'd believe it. I laughed when the author lumped used 77Ws into the "low value" category.

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 27):

If they really got offered such a great deal, why didn't they just say "OK, we'll take 200" instread of bragging about it to the press? Perhaps the prices don't include engines and are just frames that could be stripped down for spare parts or something like that.

Exactly. If there were truly good used 77Es available for $10m, then why isn't DL - or another other airline - picking them up? Good frames that cheap would be selling like hotcakes. Yet that's not what we're seeing. RA reveals his own hand here. Clearly, used frames worthy of purchase are not available at that price, or DL has no intention of buying them for that price in the first place. So either way it's a poorly stated bluff. I doubt anyone in the airline industry is fooled by it. The only people seeming to take the bait are investors in Boeing. But that would lend more evidence that Anderson's lie or truthful misdirection is only aimed as a shot against Boeing.
 
Chaostheory
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:32 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
RR engines that might have high(er) maintenance costs (due to how RR does their spares)

Unless you operate the Trent 895, the Trent 800 has the lowest maintenance cost of the three manufacturers. An interesting little tidbit, the Trent 895 has a whopping 30% higher maintenance costs than the Trent 892 which most airlines opted for. I believe DL operates their 772s at the T892 rating.

For the rest of this thread, it just seems like we're going over old ground:

DL Sees 'buyers Market' For Used Widebodies (by lightsaber Oct 14 2015 in Civil Aviation)
 
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scbriml
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:54 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 36):
Airbus and Boeing have both flooded the market with 777/A330 capacity

Flooded the market? Or sold planes to customers that wanted them?   
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Max Q
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RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:51 am

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 39):
From the article: "He [Richard Anderson] suggested that newer jets, including the Boeing 787, tend to be less reliable than the older jets Delta maintains with its in-house mechanics, citing its fleet of Boeing MD-88s, which average more than 25 years in age."

Riight,


Give me a break, what else is he going to say with such a large percentage of older aircraft in the Dal fleet ?
Don't believe that for a minute and one of these days their older aircraft are going to bite them in the you know what.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
flyDTW1992
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:04 am

RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:01 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 45):
Give me a break, what else is he going to say with such a large percentage of older aircraft in the Dal fleet ?
Don't believe that for a minute and one of these days their older aircraft are going to bite them in the you know what.

While they're certainly making their fleet work for them for the time being, I think this is really just a bunch of hot air.

He hasn't bought any used widebodies, but has 70 of those "newer jets" mentioned in the article on the order books. The 717s aren't particularly old, so I don't really lump them in with the 88s or the 757s, or for that matter the first batch of A320s, and we know they're interested in even newer small jets like the E190/195.

I think RA will keep playing with the mix of old and new for as long as they can keep making money that way.
Now you're flying smart
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1501
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:55 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 12):
I had a customer in Delta One insist I was a moron because Delta is buying A380s. I just smiled graciously, and walked away. He also insisted he was in a 744 when we were flying a 777. I didn't have the stomach to pull out the safety instruction card in his seat pocket.

Thanks for the laugh...shows perfectly how even some "frequent
flyers" can be incredibly airplane/aviation-ignorant. Made me
remember one of my favorite sayings: "People who think they
know it all really annoy the [insert expletive] out of those of us
who do!"
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
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Stitch
Posts: 27302
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:24 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 38):
Interesting. This means spare parts are not worth what they should be. Or more likely configuration (e.g., small cargo doors) and engine specific (less popular engines aren't worth much.

I read a recent market analysis on used 777s that noted the most valuable part of the plane was the engine, but with so many currently in-operation frames operating under "power by the hour" contracts (especially GE and RR), the market value for the engines has been sharply reduced and, by extension, the market value of the entire airframe is now a fair bit lower.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 44):
Flooded the market? Or sold planes to customers that wanted them?  

More a case of Airbus and Boeing having shifted those planes at lower Average Sales Prices to maintain their current production rates. So with new frames being worth less (compared to list), that puts additional pressure on values of used frames.
 
sxf24
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

RE: DL: Boeing Offered Used 777s For $10M

Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:38 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 37):

Nope... just ones that would've offered lower revenue potential under DL's future route planning, and/or cost more in acquisition than DL was willing to pay.

If not, then Boeing would've won. Simple as that.

I don't follow. What airplanes, specifically, did Boeing offer to Delta for $10 million? Boeing doesn't have a fleet of used 777s - it looks like it owns one - and anyone who implies Boeing would offer NEW 777s for $10 million is crazy.

While 777-200 values are declining, like A330s and other airplanes at this stage in their lifecycle, I think Richard Anderson is lying and trying to stir the pot to push down values so Delta can buy cheap airplanes.

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