Oregon Aviation Thread - Part 10

zmatt1 · Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:39 pm

Any chance of DL giving AS a run for their money at PDX? Maybe more service up and down the West coast or Hawaii? Ot are they pretty much committed to developing SEA?

lhpdx · Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:43 pm

There's a lot of Seattle diversions to PDX this morning........

HPRamper · Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:05 pm

Quoting lhpdx (Reply 101):

Heavy freezing fog this morning. Must have been much worse at BFI because UPS flights were diverted into SEA. It's largely cleared up now.

derek0aa · Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:07 pm

Long time lurker, first time poster!

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 77):

PDX had an amazing year 2015.

Here are my PDX predictions/hopes for 2016. Feel free to add yours.

I like your optimism, but I don't think we'll see half of the ones you mentioned.

1. BA announcing LHR-PDX. This has been hyped up for too long, it's time for it to finally happen. Hopefully this is the year...
2. AS announcing PDX-MCO. Let's get Florida back!
3. AS announcing PDX-DEN....again....
4. AS/OO announcing PDX-MKE and PDX-ABQ. Possibly seasonal on both. These routes are too thin for mainline though. AS/OO's new service to OMA make me think that both of those can be feasible.
5 6. AA announcing PDX-JFK and PDX-MIA. Strengthening AS/AA relations could make these work.
7. I can see DL trying to make some more noise here, although I can't pinpoint what kind of noise they'll make. Seasonal PDX-CDG I can see, and I know it's been talked about before.

WN announcing PDX-BNA is interesting. They have a seasonal SEA-BNA flight, and AS operates that route year round. BNA is the largest WN "focus city" without service to PDX.

It's too early to tell now, but assuming DE has another stellar performance this summer, I can see LH possibly be interested in resuming year round service to FRA in the near future. Fingers crossed.

I can also see a cargo airline announcing a flight to Asia this year, but I don't see any commercial flight announcements being made in 2016 unfortunately. Wasn't the state supposed to start subsidizing a cargo flight to Asia? What happened to that?

[Edited 2016-01-10 13:09:02]

lhpdx · Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:35 am

Does anyone know when the concourse E extension construction is suppose to commence?

doug_or · Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:54 am

Quoting zmatt1 (Reply 100):
Any chance of DL giving AS a run for their money at PDX? Maybe more service up and down the West coast or Hawaii? Ot are they pretty much committed to developing SEA?

To what end? DL isn't in SEA because of a personal beef with AS, they're trying to build up a hub. Adding non-hub flights to PDX doesn't really support that.

UnitedFlyer · Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:15 pm

http://www.mailtribune.com/article/20160113/NEWS/160119830

A record year for MFR.

lhpdx · Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:46 pm

AA has announced today that they will be adding, from this summer, 20 new flights to 9 new destinations, as well as more frequencies to existing destinations. With these additions, by June AA will operate 220 daily flights from LAX to 70 destinations. AA is building 2 new gates in T4, for a total of 15. The new routes are:

New year-round routes:

- SEA: 5 daily
- PDX: 3 daily
- MSP: 2 daily
- MSY: 1 daily
- MCI: 1 daily
- OMA: 1 daily
- BDL: 1 daily

Wow there's going to be a lot of new flights at PDX summer 2016!!!

ANA787 · Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:59 pm

Fantastic!

PDX-LAX has 5 carriers now?

Will AA be running mainline aircraft PDX-LAX?

Wonder if UA will jump back into the PDX-LAX market.

lhpdx · Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:17 pm

I wonder what other new flights or add frequencies can we expect for our PDX summer lineup......

intotheair · Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:02 pm

AA is also increasing EUG-LAX to 2x daily starting in early April — both flights on the E175.

ANA787 · Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:41 pm

PDX handled 16,850,952 passengers in 2015. A new all time record! A 5.9% increase in passenger traffic 2014-2015.

http://cdn.portofportland.com/pdfs/Dec2015webstats.pdf

[Edited 2016-01-20 12:48:32]

derek0aa · Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:27 pm

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 111):
PDX handled 16,850,952 passengers in 2015. A new all time record! A 5.9% increase in passenger traffic 2014-2015.

Wow. I knew PDX would break 16,000,000 last year, but I wasn't expecting nearly 17,000,000!

lhpdx · Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:31 pm

Wow PDX is going to be well over 18,000,000 before the E extension is completed...................

ANA787 · Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:59 pm

AS is rumored to be announcing some new routes from PDX in the coming weeks also. PDX-RDU/SAT were mentioned. Any idea what else could be announced? 2016 should be another record breaking year.

lhpdx · Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:04 am

I hope AS also increases frequencies on existing routes out of PDX...1 flight to PHX is ridiculous......

ANA787 · Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:08 am

Quoting lhpdx (Reply 115):

It's 1 flight in the summer. 2 flights operate pdx-phx outside the winter season.

RWA380 · Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:12 am

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 108):
Will AA be running mainline aircraft PDX-LAX?

E75 x 3 for PDX, SEA gets the 319 x 4 & 1 E75

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 108):

Wonder if UA will jump back into the PDX-LAX market

Good Lord I hope not, it's already going to be a buyers dream for low airfares, UA realized a long time ago PDX-LAX does offer nothing to their network, especially as it overflies their huge SFO hub.

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 108):

PDX-LAX has 5 carriers now?

At the most I can remember three at any given time, who'd have thunk PDX-LAX would be one of the busiest corridors in the country?

lhpdx · Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:52 am

With all of AS Embraer 175's on order and coming online, I wonder if the Port of Portland needs to revisit it's plans for extending concourse E. Ground loading isn't the best option for those new birds.........

ramprat74 · Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:52 pm

I was thinking the same thing. The E-175 sits to high for ground boarding. As of right now, AS off loads one E-175 on the A concourse at night. They bought a huge double decker mobile stairs for this purpose.

I still can't figure out how this improves AS space from what they have now. They're going to need every D concourse gate that Delta doesn't use for their daily operation. I think United is getting the better deal in this gate swap.

RWA380 · Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:21 am

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 119):

I still can't figure out how this improves AS space from what they have now. They're going to need every D concourse gate that Delta doesn't use for their daily operation.

I thought NK is moving to C from D, albeit 1 gate & yes I thought it would be HA, DL & AS only on D, with everyone else on C or B

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 119):
I think United is getting the better deal in this gate swap.

How many gates is UA vacating & how many are they taking on C? I was uner the impression they planned to shrink 1 gate.

pnwpdx · Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:21 pm

Well this could get interesting... I hope we don't loose our Delta to Tokyo-Narita flight. This flight is very convenient whenever I fly to Asia.

http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/...ght_to_asia.html#incart_river_home

It would be a huge loss if they got rid of this flight.

bjorn14 · Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:56 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 93):

Not true. An airport can hire their own private screening firm. IIRC, 6 airports have private companies but they have to be TSA approved.

intotheair · Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:02 pm

I know we talk a lot about MFR but EUG is also seeing an influx of passengers. 2015 was a record year, and passenger numbers are up 14% in the last five years.

http://registerguard.com/rg/news/loc...900000-at-airport-in-2015.html.csp

Airnerd · Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:34 pm

Quoting pnwpdx (Reply 121):
Well this could get interesting... I hope we don't loose our Delta to Tokyo-Narita flight. This flight is very convenient whenever I fly to Asia.

http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/...ght_to_asia.html#incart_river_home

It would be a huge loss if they got rid of this flight.

Personally, I'd love to see Alaska and JAL seize the opportunity of Delta's predicament and partner up to bring JAL flights from Japan to both Seattle AND Portland with codeshares on the whole AS and AA route network. I think that could be a huge hit, and a major blow to DL in their skirmish with AS at Seattle (and to a lesser extent Portland). They've got 763ERs and 788s, both of which could work well on the Portland route, while a 777 would be a hit in Seattle if JAL provided full AS mileage plan miles (unlike DL).

derek0aa · Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:46 pm

Quoting pnwpdx (Reply 121):
Well this could get interesting... I hope we don't loose our Delta to Tokyo-Narita flight. This flight is very convenient whenever I fly to Asia.

http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/...ght_to_asia.html#incart_river_home

It would be a huge loss if they got rid of this flight.

Quoting Airnerd (Reply 124):
Personally, I'd love to see Alaska and JAL seize the opportunity of Delta's predicament and partner up to bring JAL flights from Japan to both Seattle AND Portland with codeshares on the whole AS and AA route network. I think that could be a huge hit, and a major blow to DL in their skirmish with AS at Seattle (and to a lesser extent Portland). They've got 763ERs and 788s, both of which could work well on the Portland route, while a 777 would be a hit in Seattle if JAL provided full AS mileage plan miles (unlike DL).

This. I think this flight is too important to the region to not exist all together, especially with our Port of Portland shipping woes. I'd love to see JAL swoop in and take this route if DL continues to cry about HND.

ramprat74 · Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:46 pm

Quoting pnwpdx (Reply 121):
How many gates is UA vacating & how many are they taking on C? I was uner the impression they planned to shrink 1 gate.

UA has E1-E4 right now and will be moving to C3-C9 .

lhpdx · Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:50 pm

If the Port of Portland were smart, they would start early negotiating with ANA or JAL..It wouldn't hurt to include some added incentives to guarantee profit for at least the first year.

UnitedFlyer · Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:52 pm

Quoting intotheair (Reply 123):
I know we talk a lot about MFR but EUG is also seeing an influx of passengers. 2015 was a record year, and passenger numbers are up 14% in the last five years.

I am a frequent user of MFR, but I love seeing the growth happening at EUG. What is the status of the terminal expansion?

BigGSFO · Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:21 am

Quoting lhpdx (Reply 127):
If the Port of Portland were smart, they would start early negotiating with ANA or JAL..It wouldn't hurt to include some added incentives to guarantee profit for at least the first year.

Agreed. Of course if JL decides to resume service to the Pacific Northwest, I assume a deal with AS would be hammered out quickly.

RWA380 · Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:34 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 122):
Not true. An airport can hire their own private screening firm. IIRC, 6 airports have private companies but they have to be TSA approved.

I learned something, thank you. I guess KS isn't going to help fund that, as that expense was ikely not in their original planning for the route. With the LMT set back I am curious as to if KS is spending their time looking for alternate cities to start or trying to fix the issues with LMT first. I'd be curious to see what KS has in mind for their PDX hub, which currently exists of one route CEC-PDX.

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 126):
UA has E1-E4 right now and will be moving to C3-C9 .

So UA is dropping their number of flights to PDX, ie ... the elimination of PDX-IAD & thy ae taking on more gates? That makes zero sense, I wonder what the plan is?

intotheair · Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:43 am

Quoting UnitedFlyer (Reply 128):

I am a frequent user of MFR, but I love seeing the growth happening at EUG. What is the status of the terminal expansion?

It's supposed to be done by the end of the year. I don't really know what the airport looked like before since I only moved here a few months ago, but the edge of the terminal is still under construction. By the end of it, there should be more than one baggage carousel, and I guess the security checkpoint is moving to the space where the current B-gate apron-boarding hold gate area is now, and that area is moving to underneath the A "concourse." Either way, the construction doesn't seem to be impacting passenger operations at all, and it's great nonetheless to see the airport doing well. I love using EUG over driving to PDX, even if it means having to connect in SEA or SLC on QX /DL.

[Edited 2016-01-23 19:45:12]

pdx · Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:25 am

Quoting intotheair (Reply 131):
So UA is dropping their number of flights to PDX, ie ... the elimination of PDX-IAD & thy ae taking on more gates? That makes zero sense, I wonder what the plan is?

They're not eliminating PDX-IAD, it's just hit and miss. You can book it in the summer. UA's a mess!

ANA787 · Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:44 pm

Looks like condor will be adding MORE frequency for this coming summer to PDX-FRA. August and September PDX-FRA will operate 4x weekly. LH left a goldmine.

ramprat74 · Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:25 pm

Quoting intotheair (Reply 131):
So UA is dropping their number of flights to PDX, ie ... the elimination of PDX-IAD & thy ae taking on more gates? That makes zero sense, I wonder what the plan is?

IAD will be back in the Spring. UA will use C3, C5, C7, C9. They told the Port that they didn't want C1 because of the VSR on both sides of it.

lhpdx · Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:30 pm

Ramprat74 do you know the construction schedule for the E extension?

Airnerd · Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:11 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 130):

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 126):
UA has E1-E4 right now and will be moving to C3-C9 .

So UA is dropping their number of flights to PDX, ie ... the elimination of PDX-IAD & thy ae taking on more gates? That makes zero sense, I wonder what the plan is?

Is it possible they are keeping the same number of gates?: C3, C5, C7, C9. On the C concourse, these gates are all in a row on one side. The even gates are on the opposite side. UA has reduced service at PDX so dramatically. The only think that's kept them as strong as they are is the merger with CO, resulting in new service to EWR and IAH.

RWA380 · Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:19 pm

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 133):
Looks like condor will be adding MORE frequency for this coming summer to PDX-FRA. August and September PDX-FRA will operate 4x weekly. LH left a goldmine.

I agree, however at the time LH left it was on the 343 & fuel was rising, the economics of the route on a 763 seem to be a perfect fit. In honesty LH inventory on the PDX flight were often times the harder to come by for the low end fares. I think it was rarely full up front with paid fares, lots of 1k's using upgrades. In all fairness, if the economy was then what it is now, LH would not leave, I bet they kick themselves from time to time, a 332 would be perfect. Does DE offer any US destination on a year around basis?

Quoting pdx (Reply 132):
They're not eliminating PDX-IAD, it's just hit and miss. You can book it in the summer. UA's a mess!

OK, seasonal makes sense, I know that flight has been seasonal in the past, I remembered an OAG thread where the tenor of the discussion was that it was a solid chop. Yes, United has been obviously right-sizing itself for years, I hope they can get the momentum it needs to straighten out the kinks.

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 134):
IAD will be back in the Spring. UA will use C3, C5, C7, C9.

OK, I get it now, you had said C3-9 & I took that to mean all the gates in between, but what you were saying is the gates on the inside of C, cool, that makes much more sense to me.

ANA787 · Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:36 pm

Sun Country has announced PDX-MSP service.

Sun Country Announces Portland, Oregon(PDX) (by ANA787 Jan 26 2016 in Civil Aviation)

lhpdx · Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:51 pm

Congratulation PDX and the Port of Portland!!! Hopefully there's more announcement to come for 2016..........

derek0aa · Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:12 am

Well that's kind of random, but the more the merrier I guess.

RWA380 · Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:48 am

According to the 6:30pm news on KGW, PDX is now on the chopping block for our NRT flight, with DL trying to push their HND agenda. I have searched the KGW & Oregonian websites & found nothing, it may come out in tomorrows paper. As we've speculated here, I'd suspect if indeed DL leaves, which could happen, I think JL would jump in with a 788 & some sort of AS tie up.

pdx · Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:09 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 141):
According to the 6:30pm news on KGW, PDX is now on the chopping block for our NRT flight, with DL trying to push their HND agenda. I have searched the KGW & Oregonian websites & found nothing, it may come out in tomorrows paper. As we've speculated here, I'd suspect if indeed DL leaves, which could happen, I think JL would jump in with a 788 & some sort of AS tie up.

Can't find it either, but I did find this:

http://badice.com/2016/01/25/delta-t...tens-to-drop-portland-flight-yawn/

So they're mad about HND slots and taking it out on PDX? That's crappy! I took a pic of their last M11 leaving for NRT. Now I suppose I'll need one of their 763! I'd like to see a new int'l airline, but would be sad to see this end. I thought DL might be taking some interest in PDX...again...with their 717, ANC, HNL (Christmas), and 763 PDXJFK and PDXATL (summer) adds!

RWA380 · Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:44 am

Quoting pdx (Reply 142):
So they're mad about HND slots and taking it out on PDX?

And MSP as well. Their argument is weak at best, DL is saying that they can't compete w/o moving their entire op to HND, including any Intra - Asia flying they may still be operating. The problem is there are not enough slots for DL to get what they want & even if there were, DL wouldn't like the times & neither would would their fleeing passengers.
DL says they want these as a concession for not having a Japanese partner, well they had a really good Korean partner & that relationship died. It's too bad didn't cultivate the long term relationships with JL or NH, they wanted to go Skyteam, so they get China Eastern instead to mainland China. No one airline can have everything & DL whines so much, about how unfair things are, it's embarrassing for DL.

Here's the MSP thread, it has some good questimations on potential conspiracies. It seems DL is threatening the PDX flight, because they feel Portland travelers will abandon the non-stop Narita route in favor of closer in Haneda airport with a connections in California or Hawaii, with odd times that don't work well with trains into Tokyo on the inbound to HND.

DL Threatens To Drop MSP-NRT (by jetblastdubai Jan 13 2016 in Civil Aviation)

Airnerd · Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:19 pm

My hopes for this situation:
1. DL and Japan figure it out and keep the flights going.
2. JAL, Alaska and AA team up and bring JAL metal to PDX and SEA with access to full connecting networks on AS and AA.

Frankly, I like option 1 only because it is less disruptive. Honestly, if there were a way to get option 2 going quickly and smoothly, I think it would actually serve the region better in the long run.

BoeingGuy · Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:50 pm

Quoting Airnerd (Reply 144):
My hopes for this situation:
1. DL and Japan figure it out and keep the flights going.
2. JAL, Alaska and AA team up and bring JAL metal to PDX and SEA with access to full connecting networks on AS and AA.

Frankly, I like option 1 only because it is less disruptive. Honestly, if there were a way to get option 2 going quickly and smoothly, I think it would actually serve the region better in the long run.

I doubt you PDX people would have to worry about not having an Asia flight for very long if DL does drop PDX-NRT. With the way PDX is booming, I'd bet JL or NH would be in there fairly quickly. I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of HU or KE in there either.

Replacing MSP-NRT might be a little tougher since it's a DL fortress hub though.

RWA380 · Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:31 am

AS is coming back PDX-ATL June 4th 2016

[Edited 2016-01-27 16:33:21]

Alaska Airlines to fly between Portland, Oregon, and Atlanta starting June 4

PORTLAND — Alaska Airlines today announced to employees gathered at a meeting in Portland that the company will begin daily, nonstop service between Portland, Oregon, and Atlanta starting June 4, through August 27, 2016. Alaska previously served the route between August 2013 and Sept. 2014.

“Alaska Airlines continues to provide more options to our loyal Portland customer base,” said John Kirby, the airline’s VP of capacity planning. “We are pleased to add seasonal Atlanta service to the growing list of non-stop destinations we offer from the Rose City.”

Summary of new service:

Dates

City pair

Departs

Arrives

Frequency

June 4 – Aug. 27

Portland-Atlanta

11:40 p.m.

7:30 a.m.

Daily

June 5 – Aug. 27

Atlanta-Portland

8:45 a.m.

11:05 a.m.

Daily

Flight times based on local time zones.

Flights will be operated by fuel-efficient Next Generation 737 aircraft. Onboard, customers will get to enjoy more of what they love with free and premium entertainment direct to customer devices, Pacific Northwest-inspired food and beverages and custom leather seats with power outlets for laptops and personal devices for each customer.

[Edited 2016-01-27 16:35:32]

RWA380 · Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:00 am

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 81):
PDX has a lot of new service coming in 2016!

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 85):
Seems you may be speaking to the same people I am, you are correct some nice things are planned for PDX in 2016.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 99):
Yes, Portland will see growth from AS in 2016, It's my understanding that we won't need to wait too terribly long to hear of additions in the Portland market, AS is ready to retain their title of #1 carrier at PDX for decades to come.

And as predicted, AS started with their seasonal announcement for ATL.

ANA787 · Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:04 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 147):

Is this the end of the announcements? I expected a little more than a seasonal addition.

lhpdx · Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:10 am

Does AS plans to increase frequencies on existing routes out of PDX?

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