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smitty747
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Posts: 38
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Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:35 am

Appears at about 19:55 local SAN went below minimums. All inbound flights being held at their destination. A somewhat common event this time of year, but still tough on a holiday week. Appears PSP, LAX and ONT taking diversions.

[Edited 2015-11-23 20:43:21]
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:54 am

So much for flying in/out of a teacup with high minimum approaches/departures.
 
bw50505
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:57 am

Hope this doesn't happen on Wednesday when I fly in.

I remember one year that on New Years Eve, a dense fog bank moved in and everything was diverting that was inbound to SAN. Now that was one helluva way to start the New Year, especially for the controllers.

bw50505
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:40 am

Long list of diversions.

AAL2283 LAX
AAL2245 ONT
AAL470 PHX
AAL807 LAX
AAL95 ONT
ASA496 LAX
ASA552 LAX
ASA806 PSP
DAL1642 ONT
DAL2367 LAX
JBU19 LGB
JBU89 LGB
SKW4828 LGB
SKW5207 LAX
SWA117 ONT
SWA2259 LAX
SWA2412 ONT
SWA2549 LAS
SWA3182 ONT
SWA817 TUS
UAL1916 LAX
UAL240 LAX
UAL459 LAX
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:55 am

'Tis the season! Right on schedule...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
timpdx
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:55 am

This isn't fog season at all. Not really usual this time of year. May June sure. Been crystal clear near downtown LA for a week plus now. And I was just at SNA early yesterday and clear.

[Edited 2015-11-23 22:57:08]
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:01 am

Seems like the end of every Santa Ana, we get fog. Nothing unusual. Not sure if this was a classic Santa Ana, but high temps giving way to lower temps can bring out the fog in low lying areas like SAN. We're 330 MSL in Pt. Loma and totally clear.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:05 am

Quoting timpdx (Reply 5):
This isn't fog season at all. Not really usual this time of year. May June sure. Been crystal clear near downtown LA for a week plus now. And I was just at SNA early yesterday and clear.

I have worked at SAN the past ten years and it fogs in the Sunday or Monday before Thanksgiving every year. And thats my point...the weather is great and clear literally until the week of Thanksgiving.

And it fogs in more during the fall than May and June. "May Grey" and "June Gloom" we see a persistent marine layer, but not fog.

[Edited 2015-11-23 23:07:34]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SANAV8R
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:15 am

Quoting bw50505 (Reply 2):
I remember one year that on New Years Eve, a dense fog bank moved in and everything was diverting that was inbound to SAN. Now that was one helluva way to start the New Year, especially for the controllers.

That's how I rang in NYE 2008. I was routing OSL-EWR-IAH-SAN and got diverted to ONT after circling for quite a bit.
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iahcsr
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:39 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
T
SWA817 TUS
UAL1916 LAX
UAL240 LAX
UAL459 LAX

Add UA1293 LAX
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
AAR90
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:39 am

Quoting timpdx (Reply 5):
This isn't fog season at all. Not really usual this time of year. May June sure. Been crystal clear near downtown LA for a week plus now. And I was just at SNA early yesterday and clear.

Actually, yes it is (fog season). Winter will see plenty of night/morning low clouds & fog at SAN. Usually less dense than "June Gloom" but enough to prohibit aircraft operations at SAN. Looking at SNA & LAX weather normally doesn't provide much indication when considering fog.... too local of a phenomena. The last half of my flight (AA95 JFK-SAN oops... ONT) I was watching KNZY's weather reports as it will usually provide a descent indication of potential fog trends. Was trying to arrive ahead of the fog, but we missed by about 15 minutes.   
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smitty747
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:43 am

Was looking at the diversions and noted only one flight went to PSP-Alaska 806 from OGG. Anybody know why PSP would be an easier diversion than ONT, LAX, LGB? I followed the arrival track to SAN and it appears they only did one approach and then headed straight to PSP (no holding). All I can think of is fuel after travelling from the islands?? Just wondering.
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:54 am

Quoting smitty747 (Reply 11):

PSP is behind the mountains in the desert. It takes significant whether to close out PSP even with high minimums. LAX and ONT could be effected by the same weather as SAN. Also there is a bonus to being first at a diversion airport.
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chrisair
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:50 am

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 12):
LAX and ONT could be effected by the same weather as SAN.

LAX is ~100 miles or so north of SAN, so it'd be rare for the same fog/low vis to affect the two airports.

Quoting smitty747 (Reply 11):
Was looking at the diversions and noted only one flight went to PSP-Alaska 806 from OGG. Anybody know why PSP would be an easier diversion than ONT, LAX, LGB?

Perhaps the pilots wanted to play golf? Seriously though, it probably had to do with gate space at LAX and ONT as other diversions came in. AS doesn't fly to LGB so that's out.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:35 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 13):
Perhaps the pilots wanted to play golf? Seriously though, it probably had to do with gate space at LAX and ONT as other diversions came in. AS doesn't fly to LGB so that's out.

AS doesn't fly to LGB anymore. But does that preclude an airline diverting there? I think not. A lot of Alternates are airports that airlines don't fly to. For example, a lot of international flights to ORD designate MKE as their alternate. Same with YOW for YYZ. A number of international flights have gone to SMF and OAK when SFO is closed.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Ksan Below Landing Minimums (weather) 11-23-15

Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:47 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):
AS doesn't fly to LGB anymore. But does that preclude an airline diverting there? I think not. A lot of Alternates are airports that airlines don't fly to.

Sure you can divert, but its probably not good for customers if you dont have handling partner ready to go. Not many options at LGB.

Also LGB has a curfew. So you might land, and be faced with inability to recover the flight until the next morning.
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