Eirules
Topic Author
Posts: 1870
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:25 pm

Bit of a surprise but AC will fly thrice weekly YVR-DUB using a Rouge 763 next summer. The flights will operate Wednesday, Friday, Saturday in each direction so the aircraft must be swapping out with some of the YYZ rotations

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=953
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
behramjee
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:40 pm

Interesting move however the demand is not up to the mark (as per 2014 stats):

YVR-DUB 25,000 pax
YVR-MAN 38,000 pax
YVR-CDG 54,000 pax

Yields on YVR-MAN are 12% higher and which is more or less the same distance as DUB.
 
Eirules
Topic Author
Posts: 1870
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:44 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 1):

Just a thought but could part of the reason be to take advantage of less competition in DUB than in other places including MAN to places like Australia? MAN has SQ, QR, CX etc while DUB has none of these. The only current one stop options are EK & EY. Just a thought
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
JAmie2k9
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:42 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 1):

Consider costs such as APD so MAN would need to be higher to give them higher margins. Clearly they have done their homework and can make this work and profitably.
 
YXXMIKE
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:44 am

RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:42 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 2):

I would assume that helps but also a fairly good presence in DUB and potentially a pretty good following from expats on both side of the Atlantic now. Having flown with them in the past out of DUB it's a pretty straight forward painless experience; granted this was pre Rouge but DUB-YYZ-YVR was on time and we made a quicker connection in YYZ so no complaints. I suppose this is where Rouge can really outshine mainline and go after some niche routes to really get a feeling for what the market is like and whether it's strong enough to sustain itself beyond S16.

As for prices quickly looked at prices and premium rouge is coming in at about 1000GBP return which is certainly better than any prices I've seen for the club class offering from TS on any of their transatlantic flights. Granted for 1200GBP I could fly DUB - LHR - YVR on mainline metal and get a proper bed on the way back (when it matters the most) but get the joys of LHR as my reward!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:44 pm

Quoting EIRules (Thread starter):
The flights will operate Wednesday, Friday, Saturday in each direction so the aircraft must be swapping out with some of the YYZ rotations

Probably. On AC schedule I counted 8 flights DUB-YYZ between June 10 and 17. Two will by AC1929, departing at 10:30.
 
behramjee
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:47 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 2):
Just a thought but could part of the reason be to take advantage of less competition in DUB than in other places including MAN to places like Australia? MAN has SQ, QR, CX etc while DUB has none of these. The only current one stop options are EK & EY. Just a thought

I dont think so anyone flies DUB-LAX/SFO/YVR-Australia currently which is 1500 miles longer than going via DXB/AUH. I maybe wrong though !
 
frostyj
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:10 pm

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 4):

That is expensive for the Business class product they offer. Most return Business Class lie flat products from Dublin run in the range of £1,100.
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BlueShamu330s
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:15 pm

Quoting Jamie2k9 (Reply 3):
Clearly they have done their homework and can make this work and profitably.

They may have done their homework, but unless you are Mystic Meg, you have no idea yet whether it is either going to work or whether it is going to be profitable.

Rgds
Flying around India
 
YXXMIKE
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:44 am

RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:33 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 8):
That is expensive for the Business class product they offer. Most return Business Class lie flat products from Dublin run in the range of £1,100.

I fly J twice a year from DUB - YVR via LHR (and I live in GLA!) I can tell you that rarely is it as low as £1,100 and if it is that's because it's UA via EWR or ORD and I'll take LHR over US customs and 4+ hr connections anytime! Just this past summer I paid £1,200rt on AC and the onboard product is much better than UA's!

Regardless Rouge's onboard product is all very Rouge so it's up to personal comfort and budget requirements.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 9):
They may have done their homework, but unless you are Mystic Meg, you have no idea yet whether it is either going to work or whether it is going to be profitable.

AC has been on the YYZ run for awhile so they'll have some pretty solid numbers behind them on how many pax connected onwards to YVR. I'm assuming they'll know the risk and using Rouge lowers the overall risk versus offering a mainline product.
 
frostyj
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:39 pm

I never once uttered the words LHR. I am talking about Business class fares from Dublin. I never fly from any British airport when going to North America, I always end up spending a couple hundred pounds extra due to the stupid charges.

Anyway, not sure why you think the Business Class products are bad from Dublin. Aer Lingus, Delta, United and American all offer flat bed seats.

With Delta, Aer Lingus and American having some A330's on their services. There is no advantage of flying from Heathrow anymore.

[Edited 2015-11-25 09:41:44]

[Edited 2015-11-25 09:42:20]
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tomcbaker
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:01 am

RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:51 pm

Quoting EIRules (Thread starter):
Bit of a surprise but AC will fly thrice weekly YVR-DUB using a Rouge 763 next summer. The flights will operate Wednesday, Friday, Saturday in each direction so the aircraft must be swapping out with some of the YYZ rotations

This is awesome! And most unexpected. YVR is my home airport and I can tell you there certainly is an Irish diaspora here (oddly enough, including in healthcare - my GP here is from Ireland), but I'm still surprised that there's enough demand to sustain a 763 (even if it is rouged).

I'm not Irish and I don't have business in Ireland but I do frequently non-rev and I will definitely be trying this out when it starts. Very excited for this new service - nice also to see something new to Europe instead of elsewhere (I think YVR has Asia covered!). Would really like to see something new to South America next, particularly Chile or Argentina.
Tom
 
YXXMIKE
Posts: 171
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 11):
I never once uttered the words LHR. I am talking about Business class fares from Dublin. I never fly from any British airport when going to North America, I always end up spending a couple hundred pounds extra due to the stupid charges.

Well I am; I just use LHR to connect to YVR when and I fly the unfortunate EI cattle class to LHR and then travel J to YVR on AC metal. The reason I used that as an example was that's because what I fly and I quoted the costs. As I said, I'm not keen on flying through the US to get to Canada but I'm still keen on saving a couple grand and not doing the trip out of the UK where the taxes and fee's to fly J are insane!

Quoting frostyj (Reply 11):
Anyway, not sure why you think the Business Class products are bad from Dublin. Aer Lingus, Delta, United and American all offer flat bed seats.

It's not just about the flat bed product; I've never had much time for UA or AA business class and the Aer Lingus flies the 757 to YYZ and the connection there to YVR would be with AC so again...may as well just fly DUB - LHR - YVR where I can save the money I want to save and get the product that I prefer.

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 12):
This is awesome! And most unexpected. YVR is my home airport and I can tell you there certainly is an Irish diaspora here (oddly enough, including in healthcare - my GP here is from Ireland), but I'm still surprised that there's enough demand to sustain a 763 (even if it is rouged).

Having Irish family in Ireland and Canada I can tell you that the Irish diaspora grew quite dramatically after the collapse in the Irish economy. A lot of people moved over (including some of my relatives) and have taken up residency on the west coast. My parents where originally from Ireland and immigrated in the seventies and have called Canada their home ever since but travel once or twice a year back to Ireland so it's a pretty well traveled route.

On another note was it Fly Globespan that flew this route last? Did Aer Lingus or anyone else ever fly the DUB - YVR run before? C3 perhaps?
 
tomcbaker
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:01 am

RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:08 pm

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 13):
Having Irish family in Ireland and Canada I can tell you that the Irish diaspora grew quite dramatically after the collapse in the Irish economy. A lot of people moved over (including some of my relatives) and have taken up residency on the west coast. My parents where originally from Ireland and immigrated in the seventies and have called Canada their home ever since but travel once or twice a year back to Ireland so it's a pretty well traveled route.

Interesting. I didn't realize it was that recent or dramatic - in the states, it seems like most of the Irish diaspora came over during the potato famine rather than more recently. I don't have any numbers or statistics, but it does seem like Canada has received a lot of European migrants lately, I daresay moreso per capita than the US over the last decade if I had to guess. And it is interesting how many settle in BC, particularly Vancouver Island, I've noticed; lots of Afrikaans/Boer and European emigrants settling in Victoria. Particularly doctors and nurses and other skilled labour.
Tom
 
CPA62
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:13 am

RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:19 pm

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 14):
Interesting. I didn't realize it was that recent or dramatic - in the states, it seems like most of the Irish diaspora came over during the potato famine rather than more recently. I don't have any numbers or statistics, but it does seem like Canada has received a lot of European migrants lately, I daresay moreso per capita than the US over the last decade if I had to guess. And it is interesting how many settle in BC, particularly Vancouver Island, I've noticed; lots of Afrikaans/Boer and European emigrants settling in Victoria. Particularly doctors and nurses and other skilled labour.

We deal with a lot of foreigners moving to Canada and particularly the west coast. In terms of Europe, our biggest source of clients arriving into
Vancouver is from Ireland, followed by U.K. then Germany. However we have seen a large increase from Italy and Spain which
seems to be growing
 
chrisp390
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:34 pm

I would imagine it is targeting Pacific Northwest to Dublin as opposed to solely YVR origin traffic which might make the numbers better.
 
tomcbaker
Posts: 260
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:40 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 16):

I would imagine it is targeting Pacific Northwest to Dublin as opposed to solely YVR origin traffic which might make the numbers better.

True. Have you seen AC fares lately out of BC? They are insane. My wife just got an email about r/t fares from Victoria (YYJ) to Beijing and Dubai on AC; YYJ-Beijing was under $800 r/t and YYJ-Dubai was $1,000 r/t, and this is in CAD, and includes the Jazz segment from YYJ-YVR (also tax included)! I've never seen it so cheap. For Americans down in Washington state, it must be a bloody bonanza; $800 CAD is exactly $601 USD so that's $601 r/t to Beijing for Americans. Insane.
Tom
 
frostyj
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:44 pm

I know. The Business Class fares are reasonable from Dublin lately too.
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DolphinAir747
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:46 am

Good luck to AC. I was in Vancouver last spring and coincidentally it was St. Paddy's Day so there was a huge parade with a ton of Hibernian societies. That tourist/VFR traffic should fill up the seats well in summer and Rouge is good for this kind of route as opposed to say DUB-SFO which has way more business traffic.
 
connector4you
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:50 pm

What I don't quite getting it, is the Rouge's total flying time, YVR - DUB - YVR, B763 non-stop, outbound 9:30 hours inbound 10 hours.

By the same token, looking at Airtransat, YVR - MAN - YVR, A332 non-stop, outbound 9 hours, inbound 9:25 hours

From YVR, MAN is 173 km longer than DUB. Yet, Air Transat needs 30 respectively 35 minutes less flying time to MAN than Rouge to DUB

[Edited 2015-11-26 11:56:22]
 
frostyj
Posts: 1786
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:04 am

RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 19):

St Patrick's day.

Quoting connector4you (Reply 20):

It's about 8 hours both ways, it's the same distance as DUB-MCO which is nearly always 8 hours.

[Edited 2015-11-26 12:11:13]
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BlueShamu330s
Posts: 2584
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 3:11 am

RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:39 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 21):
It's about 8 hours both ways

No it is not, for reasons explained to you ad infinitum on here.
Flying around India
 
frostyj
Posts: 1786
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:04 am

RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:50 pm

Yes it is. Occasionally less than 8 hours.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/VIR161
http://uk.flightaware.com/live/fligh...1/history/20151104/1415Z/EIDW/KMCO


4,000 miles/500 = 8 hours.
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Viscount724
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RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:19 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 1):
Interesting move however the demand is not up to the mark (as per 2014 stats):

YVR-DUB 25,000 pax
YVR-MAN 38,000 pax
YVR-CDG 54,000 pax

Assume your numbers are O&D regardless of the routing? For example, does the YVR-CDG number include only passengers travelling wholly between YVR and CDG or does it also include those connecting beyond both points, which in the case of CDG, is probably the majority of passengers. In any case, nonstop service generates additional traffic.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 22):
Quoting frostyj (Reply 21):
It's about 8 hours both ways

No it is not, for reasons explained to you ad infinitum on here.

Virtually all airline schedules on transatlantic routes are longer westbound than eastbound due to prevailing winds, often by between 30 to 60 minutes. Winds of course vary and there will be times when westbound flights are faster, but on average eastbound flights are faster as you will find in published schedules. The same applies on transpacific and other eastbound-westbound routes.

[Edited 2015-11-26 14:51:09]
 
BlueShamu330s
Posts: 2584
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 3:11 am

RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:39 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 23):

Yes it is. Occasionally less than 8 hours.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/VIR161
http://uk.flightaware.com/live/fligh.../KMCO



You are making a claim for DUB-YVR and citing DUB-MCO as an example of a similar route.      

Your ignorance of upper winds, en route navigation and enroute changes is lamentable; I say that because people have endeavoured tirelessly to educate you in such matters, yet you obstinately insist on maintaining your naive position.

And so it seems it shall remain.

I shall not indulge you any longer.
Flying around India
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2855
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:55 am

Quoting connector4you (Reply 20):

What I don't quite getting it, is the Rouge's total flying time, YVR - DUB - YVR, B763 non-stop, outbound 9:30 hours inbound 10 hours.

By the same token, looking at Airtransat, YVR - MAN - YVR, A332 non-stop, outbound 9 hours, inbound 9:25 hours

From YVR, MAN is 173 km longer than DUB. Yet, Air Transat needs 30 respectively 35 minutes less flying time to MAN than Rouge to DUB

That's because the A332 usually cruises at M0.82, whereas the B763 cruises at M0.80.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:46 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 22):

Yes it is. Occasionally less than 8 hours.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/VIR161
http://uk.flightaware.com/live/fligh...1/history/20151104/1415Z/EIDW/KMCO


4,000 miles/500 = 8 hours.




Airline schedules use the flight time, brakes release to brakes set, flight aware is air time, wheels up to wheels down....
 
connector4you
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed May 16, 2001 10:27 am

RE: AC Launching YVR-DUB For S16

Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:32 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 25):
That's because the A332 usually cruises at M0.82, whereas the B763 cruises at M0.80.

Accordingly to Great Circle Mapper, MACH 0.82 over 7187 km will take you 8:15 hours, while MACH 0.80, 8:27 hours .

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