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CXfirst
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:12 pm

VA691 VH-XFG (A330-200) is flying a very irregular route today. Believe it was having some issues that affected EDTO (someone else probably has better info). The routing today will taking it about as far North as BME!

http://uk.flightaware.com/live/fligh...1/history/20151204/0635Z/YMML/YPPH

Outside of Flightradar coverage as we speak, but that Flightaware route and position is not a technical error!

-CXfirst
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:46 pm

Quoting QF175 (Reply 86):
During a recent interview JAL Chairman signaled that Perth may be in the running for a future service to Tokyo

Great news for Perth, "if it happens" A lot of airlines GEO's say they are thinking of a service to a city or a return to a previous city they once served but in the end it does not happen
we live in a world today that is money first and service second airline alliances have been with us for over a decade hence why we don't see any European airline fly to Australian airports using their own metal
apart from Sydney and BA. Competing against the ME3 has been a major factor as well, once before airlines use to die a slow death like how many years did it take for Pan Am and TWA to go out of business, some airlines that's been on life support
have made it back from the brink like JL, NZ and even QF came close. Now a days there are airlines that go out of business in a matter of days IE Air Australia, and the 2 Compass airlines from the 90s'. I reacon
if JL does go to Perth it will be In some kind of code share if with QF if they want to bring back a Tokyo service or maybe get JQ to do the flight as a QF service in a code share with JL.
I would think JL would go back to Brisbane before anything, they have had landing rights to Melbourne for years but never seem to take them up. Like I said great for Perth but I cant see it happening.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:56 pm

From Tokyo, BNE now has daily QF and JQ flies from OOL down the road. JL likely won't be in a rush to get back into that market any time soon.

Talk is that the choice is between MEL and PER and negotiations have been taking place with various stakeholders. We will see how it plays out.

PER is a market with no non-stop offering on that route but could well be a more limited option in terms of market size.

MEL has JQ flights but a premium carrier would likely further boost the market. There are growing business and tourism ties between the 2 cities so that may well come into the equation. Given they codeshare on JQ's route they would know the market data fairly well by now.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:14 pm

What has stopped JL flying to MEL in the past?
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:46 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 100):

VA691 VH-XFG (A330-200) is flying a very irregular route today. Believe it was having some issues that affected EDTO (someone else probably has better info). The routing today will taking it about as far North as BME!

http://uk.flightaware.com/live/fligh...1/history/20151204/0635Z/YMML/YPPH

Outside of Flightradar coverage as we speak, but that Flightaware route and position is not a technical error!

-CXfirst

That looks very strange! Would like to hear the reason if anyone is in the know!
 
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777Jet
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:33 am

Just got back from a swim at Manly and there was something that looked like a military C-130 doing some training circuits and dropping about 10 Paratroopers per fly past into the water a few kms south east of Manly.

Very interesting.

Quoting alatar144 (Reply 88):
Is there is a time limit before an airline recovers or do they never recover in your eyes?

I guess an airline could recover but there is not set time limit.

One example could be below:

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 95):
All of you guys with airline blacklists, count your lucky stars you've never had to fly in Iran. Flying their Tu-154 was quite an experience!

Now if an airline on my blacklist had a rare type that I needed or really wanted to log I might give them a blacklist waiver for that one specific logbook run.

If MH had an MD-11 flying between SYD-KUL I might actually waive MH & Malaysia from my blacklist just to log it!
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:33 am

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 95):
All of you guys with airline blacklists, count your lucky stars you've never had to fly in Iran. Flying their Tu-154 was quite an experience!

  

And the IL-62 on Interflug, the old East German airline. Great service, though, the best economy flight I've ever had on any airline.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:36 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 105):

It's ironic that the MD-11 is probably the most dangerous aircraft from any manufacturer, anywhere in the world, built in the last 30 years.

That wouldn't stop me flying an MD-11, I adored the DC-10, but then again I don't have an airline blacklist.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 103):

The MEL-Japan market has traditionally been surprisingly small. The corporate market is disproportionately focused on Sydney while the inbound leisure market is disproportionately focused on Queensland.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
vhebb
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:15 pm

Just got a few questions about QF/JQ in PER:

Now that VA have moved into the new terminal has QF/JQ taken over the old VA end of the terminal yet?

What has/will replace the VA checkin area?

Will the old VA end of the terminal get a refurb to match the QF end?

How many aerobridges did the VA terminal have?

Cheers
 
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777Jet
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:03 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 107):
It's ironic that the MD-11 is probably the most dangerous aircraft from any manufacturer, anywhere in the world, built in the last 30 years.

I agree.

Despite my blacklist, there are some types I would really love to log, including the MD-11 with its bad statistics.

And if the only way to log it was on a blacklisted airline I would still jump at the chance, log the type, then blacklist the airline again   
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JQflightie
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:35 am

Quoting vhebb (Reply 108):
Just got a few questions about QF/JQ in PER:

Now that VA have moved into the new terminal has QF/JQ taken over the old VA end of the terminal yet?

What has/will replace the VA checkin area?

Will the old VA end of the terminal get a refurb to match the QF end?

How many aerobridges did the VA terminal have?

Cheers

Hi vhebb,

QF/JQ and QLink services operated by Cobham and Network have moved over to the old VA side, I departed from gate 17 this week. I believe the VA side has 4 aerobridges, downstairs in check-in where VA had their small space, it is now empty however JQ operate down on the furthest check-in facilities (near Woodside offshore) in T3.
All refurb a should be completed by mid next year.
Interestingly though, the FIFO clients are not liking the move that VA have made especially if they depart on VA and arrive back on QF as they then have a 35-60minute hike to get their cars back at international/VA , so where possible they are trying to get their flights both ways on QF, the only real plus side for VA is that they are beside the International departures...
When is my next holiday?
 
CXfirst
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:48 am

Quoting vhebb (Reply 108):
How many aerobridges did the VA terminal have?
T3 has 5 aerobridge gates (one which QF has been using for a while already). 3 of them are A330 capable (however, when in use, they restrict the use of other bays). They also have 4 non-aerobridge gates that are accessible via a walkway, and therefore would not require a bus.

Quoting JQflightie (Reply 110):
Interestingly though, the FIFO clients are not liking the move that VA have made especially if they depart on VA and arrive back on QF as they then have a 35-60minute hike to get their cars back at international/VA

Think you are making this into a bigger problem than it really is. Most of VA FIFO service was at T2 anyway. Only thing moving are clients travelling to PHE, ZNE, KTA, and to a lesser degree KGI, where most would have flown VA both ways anyway (no real scheduling reason to fly QF one way and VA the other). PBO also had a couple flights at T3, but that was only their RPT flight, with the remaining FIFO flights still going from T2.

-CXfirst

[Edited 2015-12-05 17:53:40]
 
vhebb
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:05 am

Hi,

Thanks for your responses.

Is the upstairs gate area in T3 and T4 now completely joined? Meaning you can easily walk between them?

I also assume QF mainline is also making use of all the old VA bridges?

Thanks
 
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qf789
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:34 am

Quoting vhebb (Reply 112):
Is the upstairs gate area in T3 and T4 now completely joined? Meaning you can easily walk between them?

Yes its been like that for some time.
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jrfspa320
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:10 am

That should cut down the bussing at T4 , which was bit of a pain....will only JQ use the T3 baggage reclaim?
 
shnoob940
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:03 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 70):
The only Indo carrier I feel remotely safe on is Garuda. Air Asia Indo, Lion Air and all the rest are all on my blacklist. You're more safe flying North Korean Airlines than you are on them.

Having flown Air Koryo a fortnight ago, I can tell you the service on them is better than I've ever received on a flight operated by any member of the AirAsia group  

Tu-204 or A320.. ask yourselves!

Gibbo
 
CXfirst
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:31 am

Quoting jrfspa320 (Reply 114):
That should cut down the bussing at T4 , which was bit of a pain....will only JQ use the T3 baggage reclaim?

I suspect that if QF start using the gates at T3, they will also start using the baggage reclaim at T3. Currently, signage as you exit T3 gates, points towards T3 baggage reclaim as the exit route. Those belts are also numbered 4 and 5, so a little update of arrivals screens and some signage at the carousels would solve any issues for any QF pax that came in at T3, but turned right out of the gate and walked towards the traditional QF exit and arrivals carousel.

It would be a shame not to use carousels 4 and 5, especially with gates 18, 19 and 20 being a real short walk. The stand off bays (21-24) also exit right onto the T3 arrivals carousels.

-CXfirst
 
vhebb
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:15 am

Whilst on the topic of terminals, has anyone passed through the MEL QF domestic terminal since JQ moved out?

Has all JQ signage been removed?

Has anything been done or is anything planned with the space that JQ checkin used to occupy?

And is the basement where the JQ boarding lounge was still open or operating?

Thanks
 
747m8te
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:50 am

Quoting vhebb (Reply 117):
And is the basement where the JQ boarding lounge was still open or operating?

I believe that is still used by QFlink flights to Launceston, Devonport, Mildura and Canberra  
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QF29
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:07 pm

Hi all,

Noticed last night that there were two 747 freighters in MEL arriving from SYD. Is this a Christmas freight charter or is this a regular occurrence or a special event? One of the flights was operated by SQ and the other by Polar air cargo.

Thanks
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eta unknown
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:31 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 27):
Yes, this is something I have been aware of for some time now. I haven't seen anything official from the airline nor 'movie' confirming this and I asked for confirmation in the previous thread. It's a Saturday that day and I don't have to work so I will have to drag out an old C3-PO costume from the 80s to wear to the 'mound' on the 12 December ... anyone care to dress up as well? I guarantee instant media coverage if you do!

Official confirmation:
http://www.ana-sw.com/jets/
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:48 am

was out at Melbourne airport on Saturday morning saying good bye to my Mother in Law once we said good bye to her my Father in Law , my son and I
went and watched the Jets coming and going on both 16/34 and 9/27, what I noticed was at the QF maintenance were 3 A330s and one of them being in the Hanger. My question
is what would they be doing there I thought maintenance was gone from Melbourne, I also noticed a 4th one being towed over to there as well. Also saw the new 738 in Tiger Air
colours, looks quite impressive on a 738.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:01 am

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/30291274/daily-direct-flight-from-tokyo-set-for-take-off/

JL's Perth to Tokyo getting closer to reality.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 121):
what I noticed was at the QF maintenance were 3 A330s and one of them being in the Hanger. My question
is what would they be doing there I thought maintenance was gone from Melbourne, I also noticed a 4th one being towed over to there as well

Line maintenance and any other smaller work for QF aircraft is still carried out there.

Some QF work is still done at MEL but not the heavy maintenance that used to occur there but JQ have their main 788 base in that complex.

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 121):
Also saw the new 738 in Tiger Air
colours, looks quite impressive on a 738.

Its certainly a bit of a shock but yes it suits it.
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:56 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 122):
JL's Perth to Tokyo getting closer to reality.

A daily PER-TYO service will just add more capacity to a market with so much added capacity in the last 6 months with daily BNE flights and soon SYD on ANA. I realise that Perth is almost a separate market in the sense that any of the Asian carriers offer significant advantage vs QF via BNE/SYD but still an amazing increase in capacity. Hopefully it is sustainable.

Also, in the article it mentioned QF would codeshare on the JL PER-NRT service if it did eventuate. However, JL don't currently codeshare on QF BNE-NRT, does anyone know why? It would seem the ideal route for them to codeshare on.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:06 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 123):
an amazing increase in capacity. Hopefully it is sustainable.

I do question how sustainable this growth is, especially with the weak yen at the moment. The biggest source of traffic for non-Sydney Japan flights has always been inbound tourism, and while the AUD and JPY are admittedly doing as badly as each other (which possibly works in Australia's favour as a tourism destination!) it is more expensive for Japanese to travel generally right now.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 123):
JL don't currently codeshare on QF BNE-NRT, does anyone know why?

That's weird, especially since they do codeshare on the JQ services.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:10 am

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX75

FedEx 75 from SYD to CAN has turned around near TSV and looks like its heading back to SYD
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:10 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 123):

Japan-Hawaii has been shrinking, thanks to the falling JPY. Japanese still want to holiday, so with the JPY & AUD falling together, Australia becomes more attractive again.

Aside BNE-NRT, JL & QF also don't codeshare on SYD-TYO. However they do codeshare on SIN-TYO.
 
aryonoco
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:14 am

Quoting shnoob940 (Reply 115):
A320.. ask yourselves!

I'll take the boring A320 any day.

The two times I've flown on Tupolevs are twice more than I ever desired to do so.

I'll similarly pass on the MD-11 and anything else derived from the Death Cruiser.

The L-1011 however, that's a different story. That's probably the only type I'm sad I won't ever get to fly on.
 
Razza74
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:05 pm

If JQ was to operate a daily PER-NRT would it to maximise utilisation rate then become for example part of a MEL-NRT-PER-NRT-MEL.
MEL-NRT and PER-NRT are both approximately 9 hours flying, with a 3 hour turn around MEL-NRT-PER-NRT-MEL would comfortably be within 48 hours, this would remove the need to position an aircraft in PER as currently JQ do not operate the 788 out of PER

Razza74
Ahh the joy of living under a flightpath
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:48 pm

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 125):

I saw another post regarding the FedEx air turn back. Any idea why they decided to head back to SYD, I understand they have ground staff & engineering in SYD but surely BNE would've been a better option? Unless it wasn't an emergency therefore they opted to return to SYD.

Other news, "The Australian Financial Review" reports on the falling price of oil and its predicted contribution toward Qantas full year performance. Analysts predict Qantas will report a $1.69 billion underlying profit before tax in the current financial year, thanks to the transformation program, a lower fuel price and revenue from increased aircraft utilisation.

Pretty awesome turn around but it wasn't easy!

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:55 pm

Quoting Razza74 (Reply 128):
If JQ was to operate a daily PER-NRT would it to maximise utilisation rate then become for example part of a MEL-NRT-PER-NRT-MEL.
MEL-NRT and PER-NRT are both approximately 9 hours flying, with a 3 hour turn around MEL-NRT-PER-NRT-MEL would comfortably be within 48 hours, this would remove the need to position an aircraft in PER as currently JQ do not operate the 788 out of PER

It would make ops a bit harder though, especially with a limited fleet available. It would essentially have to drop other flights to allow that.

JL to PER makes sense, but at a daily frequency I am not so sure.
 
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qf789
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:45 am

From March 2016 JQ will begin flying to HBA (4 Weekly) and ADL (3 weekly) from AVV

http://australianaviation.com.au/201...h-new-adelaide-and-hobart-flights/
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qfvhoqa
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:50 am

Quoting Razza74 (Reply 128):
If JQ was to operate a daily PER-NRT would it to maximise utilisation rate then become for example part of a MEL-NRT-PER-NRT-MEL.

A daily 787 on PER-NRT is far too much capacity. MEL-NRT isn't even daily at this stage and it's a larger market. Were JQ to want to serve this market then 3x weekly would be about it.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 130):
It would make ops a bit harder though, especially with a limited fleet available. It would essentially have to drop other flights to allow that.

There's a bit of slack in the 787 fleet at JQ, some planes sit on the ground in SYD/MEL for much of the day.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 130):
JL to PER makes sense

I think given that JL cannot open new routes, only resume, it makes sense for them to reconsider former routes. Their 787s are rather premium heavy though, so a 763 (J24/Y175) should be a better fit for NRT-PER.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:59 am

Quoting qf789 (Reply 131):
From March 2016 JQ will begin flying to HBA (4 Weekly) and ADL (3 weekly) from AVV

Great decision there to split the frequencies across 2 cities.

HBA has not been served by JQ from AVV in the past, but ADL is a resumption of service. OOL was also a new destination for JQ at AVV. TT had served a few of these routes though in their short stint at AVV.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:08 am

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 132):
I think given that JL cannot open new routes, only resume, it makes sense for them to reconsider former routes.

What do you mean it can not open new routes? Not sure I understand that one.

PER is not a resumption for JL, as it was previously a QF operated route that they codeshared on.

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 132):
Their 787s are rather premium heavy though, so a 763 (J24/Y175) should be a better fit for NRT-PER.

The 788 has the efficiency advantage though so its a hard one.

JL's config does seem to favour the 763 though.

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 132):
A daily 787 on PER-NRT is far too much capacity. MEL-NRT isn't even daily at this stage and it's a larger market.

I agree, but PER is a market that has some advantages to Japan. Daily though seems a hge step.

MEL unfortunately does live in the shadow of SYD for Japan service though, which is why there are still significant traffic flows are routed via there to feed those flights. Even the new QF BNE-NRT flight would come into play here, as QF would be mindful that there is a need to feed those flights with transfer pax.

JQ's MEL-NRT non-stop flights get up to 6 x weekly in peak periods, but a premium carrier (QF, JL, NH) on the route would be nice.
 
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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:06 am

Someone might be reading the boards again


http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviat...emirates-deal-20151207-glhipe.html

Qantas in no rush to deepen ties with Malaysia Airlines after Emirates deal
 
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qf789
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:06 am

Rex says it has signed contract for Albany and Esperance services

http://australianaviation.com.au/201...ract-for-esperance-albany-service/
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qfvhoqa
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:00 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 134):
What do you mean it can not open new routes? Not sure I understand that one.

When JL was bailed out of bankruptcy by the Japanese government, NH was understandably riled up. As a concession, JL was restricted for a number of years from opening new routes (assisting NH with their international growth). However JL is able to re-open a previously operated route.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 134):
PER is not a resumption for JL, as it was previously a QF operated route that they codeshared on.

JL operated NRT-PER in the 80s 1987 - Japan Air Lines (JAL) Route Map.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 134):
The 788 has the efficiency advantage though so its a hard one.

But with a low seat count, is it really that much more efficient than a denser 763? Some of JL's 763s aren't that old, and they currently send them to HNL/CGK/SIN. NRT-PER isn't all that much further than NRT-HNL.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 134):
MEL unfortunately does live in the shadow of SYD for Japan service

I would think PER falls in the shadow of SIN for Japan service. With the large capacity via SIN on both FSC & LCC, there's already plenty of options. Also, MEL-NRT would be more evenly balanced between inbound & outbound pax. NRT-PER would likely be weighted towards inbound pax from Japan.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:59 am

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 137):
Also, MEL-NRT would be more evenly balanced between inbound & outbound pax. NRT-PER would likely be weighted towards inbound pax from Japan.

The old QF service was only 2 or 3 times per week. As others have said, it's way more convenient from Perth to connect in Singapore to a range of destinations in Japan than flying to NRT. Unless the PER market was going to be supported by package deals from the Japanese end it's probably a non-started.
 
Thai77w
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:30 am

Word on the street is Skytrans DHC-100 VH-QQA will meet the scrappers torch after the significant damage it received a few months ago during a storm.

Also of note is Virgin Australia ATR-72 VH-FVZ is still at Moranbah after receiving substantial damage in a storm (where winds reaching 150km/h were recorded.) It's been moved to a remote part of the apron and has had it's engines, windows etc covered, so I'd say its not moving for a while.
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ben175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:33 am

Seeing JL at PER would be amazing. If QF could maintain a 3 x weekly PER-NRT service back before the boom, a 3 x weekly 787 service will definitely do well, especially with a QF codeshare.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:08 am

Quoting ben175 (Reply 140):
Seeing JL at PER would be amazing. If QF could maintain a 3 x weekly PER-NRT service back before the boom, a 3 x weekly 787 service will definitely do well, especially with a QF codeshare.

I would agree that 3 x weekly makes sense, but carriers these days usually try and limit the occasions they have to incur the fixed costs of starting a new destination for a few weekly flights where it can be avoided.

JQ and QF can use PER flights with little issue really from the cost perspective, but JL may not find it so easy to get the numbers to stack up. It will depend on the deal on the table from WA stakeholders (ie. govt, airport).

The demand for daily flights on that route though would be too much I would suspect though, especially as premium pax would not be at the levels one would think demand such a frequency.
 
ben175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:23 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 141):

The demand for daily flights on that route though would be too much I would suspect though, especially as premium pax would not be at the levels one would think demand such a frequency.

I always feel like people underestimate how often people travel from Perth. We're isolated and generally speaking we're a pretty affluent city with high disposable incomes.

The amount of people who were certain WA would be flooded with capacity to Europe once QR started was a prime example. Now we have an EK 380, EK 77W, QR 77W and EY 332 every day serving the Middle East alone. Add in the 10 or so daily flights to South East Asian hubs and I think the demand speaks for itself.

Right now we have no airline serving anything further north than HKG. I believe by the end of the next decade PER will be connected to NRT, PVG, PEK and potentially ICN, TPE and secondary Chinese markets like CTU and XMN.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:53 am

Quoting ben175 (Reply 142):
I believe by the end of the next decade PER will be connected to NRT, PVG, PEK and potentially ICN, TPE and secondary Chinese markets like CTU and XMN.

I think you'll see China Eastern flying into Perth before 2020. It's a logical extension on building their PVG hub.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:05 am

Quoting ben175 (Reply 142):
I always feel like people underestimate how often people travel from Perth. We're isolated and generally speaking we're a pretty affluent city with high disposable incomes.

Even taking that into account though, its still only really a catchment area of 2.5 million people for PER to draw from..

SYD and MEL can each draw from market catchments of 6 million plus on their own and BNE isn't really that far behind either. They also have far more diversified economic drivers which do help assist in creating demand.

The PER market strength is not really Japan or even China, but is Singapore, UK and South Africa which have strong 2 way traffic flows. Bali is huge for PER but that is mainly an outbound travel destination, but the population mix of WA doesn't really lend itself to a strong position in other many other markets yet.

Quoting ben175 (Reply 142):
Right now we have no airline serving anything further north than HKG. I believe by the end of the next decade PER will be connected to NRT, PVG, PEK and potentially ICN, TPE and secondary Chinese markets like CTU and XMN.

CZ have been flying PER-CAN for a few years now and have really not seen much growth in frequencies. It is the only airline flying into Mainland China, so at this stage its hard to see how such significant destination growth will come, especially if the mining boom is fading away.

Is there scope for growth in PER? Sure, but I think some may be a bit too optimistic.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:34 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 144):
Even taking that into account though, its still only really a catchment area of 2.5 million people for PER to draw from..

They may only have "2.5 million people to draw from", but many non-residents travel to and from Perth? Like any other population centre, Perth has non-residents travelling to the place, whether it be to visit family or friends, to take a holiday, or as a transit point to start or finish a holiday.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 144):
Is there scope for growth in PER? Sure, but I think some may be a bit too optimistic

There is room for expansion from foreign carriers, but the encumbants there in PER are quite a formidable force to be reckoned with. The likes of EK with their A380, SQ, CX, EY, QR, SA and QZ are all tough opponent, so a new international carrier needs the backing of a home market to give the flight the feed it needs, and whether or not the Japanese market with some international connections can make a potential NRT/HND link work is another question.
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:39 am

Quoting ben175 (Reply 142):
I always feel like people underestimate how often people travel from Perth. We're isolated and generally speaking we're a pretty affluent city with high disposable incomes.

There is surely room for additional service at PER and NRT is a good example. The mining boom may be over - it had become silly - but there is still mining, and a heck of a lot of it.

And I like the idea of less than daily service. NZ has started EZE as 3 x weekly - with reportedly strong loads - but as the CEO said, they want to get it off to a healthy start. Adding frequency or even going daily too soon might kill it.

New service is a huge investment of money and I think it's better to find out what the market will bear, because all the theory in the world isn't always right.

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qf71
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:47 pm

There is definately demand for a Daily flight between PER and NRT.


JAL definately have the right aircraft for the mission in the B788 with an excellent config suited to the route.
The Perth - North Asia market has grown substantially in the years since QF operated it's 3x Weekly NRT flights whcih were operated by B763s.

Keep in mind though one of the reasons the QF flights struggled was the poor quality of the QF product compared to the likes of SQ, CX and TG at the time. The flight ran to the same timings as 4x Weekly PER-HKG flights. The B788 is also a much more capable frame for the 10hr flight between these two ports than a B763.

Besides QF flight was also popular for people wanting to fly to Korea, China or across the pacific (and vice versa) on JAL via NRT.

There is definately a market and there is room for JAL to return with daily flights to Perth.

As such a return by JAL (with a QF codeshare) will be very likely.

Melbourne on the other hand has many options with plenty of efficient one stop connections via Brisbane, Sydney, Gold Coast, Cairns, Singapore and Hong Kong. The other problem is that Melbourne is a 11hr flight too so economics and aircraft utilisation are issues here. Melbourne is really considered part of the east coast catchment area when it comes to Japan flights, which is a unique market in that a lot of capacity is directed at secondary ports and as a result pax will be filtered through CNS for example.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:47 pm

Both SYD-HKG flights on Wednesday were operated by 744's

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 132):
A daily 787 on PER-NRT is far too much capacity. MEL-NRT isn't even daily at this stage and it's a larger market. Were JQ to want to serve this market then 3x weekly would be about it.

To be fair we are also talking about 2 very different configured 787's, JL 186 over 2 classes vs JQ 335 in a 2 class config

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 137):
NRT-PER isn't all that much further than NRT-HNL.

PER-NRT is around 950nm longer than NRT-HNL, 4275nm vs 3318nm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 144):
CZ have been flying PER-CAN for a few years now and have really not seen much growth in frequencies. It is the only airline flying into Mainland China, so at this stage its hard to see how such significant destination growth will come, especially if the mining boom is fading away.

CZ started PER in 2011 at 3 weekly and only increased to 4 weekly this year. Since they started they have offered poor connections on both Europe and US flights where transit times in some instances have been as long as flight times. Also with operating 3 weekly for the first 3 years they haven't had the frequency that business prefers and as such they have more likely flown (to other ports in China) with likes of CX & SQ and to a lesser extent MH & TG.



Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 134):
Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 132): Their 787s are rather premium heavy though, so a 763 (J24/Y175) should be a better fit for NRT-PER.

The 788 has the efficiency advantage though so its a hard one.

JL's config does seem to favour the 763 though.

The 788 also has a higher cargo capacity than the 763 and would be a valuable asset on a PER-NRT route especially when Japan is currently WA's second highest trading partner.
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 133

Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:25 pm

Apparently, Etihad has upped its stake in Virgin Australia:

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/ne...ihad-ups-stake-in-virgin-australia

"Etihad ups stake in Virgin Australia

Etihad Airways (EY, Abu Dhabi Int'l) has increased its shareholding in Virgin Australia (VA, Brisbane Int'l) from 24.2% to 25.1% CAPA has reported. The move leaves Air New Zealand (NZ, Auckland Int'l) with a 24.99% shareholding followed by Singapore Airlines (SQ, Singapore Changi) with 22.91%. Virgin Group holds 10% while the remainder is on free float."


There's some debate about the size of the Air NZ holding, though, which seems to be 25.9%

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11275635

"Air New Zealand, the national carrier, has increased its cornerstone shareholding in Virgin Australia to the maximum allowed under that nation's foreign investment rules.

The Auckland-based airline now owns 25.99 percent of the Australian budget carrier, from a previous 24.46 percent, it said in a statement."


mariner

[Edited 2015-12-09 11:22:35]
aeternum nauta

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