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f35
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Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:21 pm

 
N415XJ
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:39 pm

Bring on the 172s in the JetBlue livery! They could name the first one "Baby Blue".  
 
N1120A
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:40 pm

European airlines, particularly LH and BA, have successfully done this for a long time. Done right, this is a great way to train pilots.
 
VS11
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:44 pm

Indeed very interesting. However, students still pay for the training. The path is different though as you start directly with big jets. If I understood it correctly, JetBlue may want to have an arrangement with those student pilots that it really likes.
 
N1120A
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:51 pm

Quoting VS11 (Reply 3):
However, students still pay for the training. The path is different though as you start directly with big jets

But the paid training is on a loan system that they pay out of their pay later.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:58 pm

OMG OMG OMG!!!!! I've hoped and prayed a US airline would start a program like this!!! Any more info on price, training regiment, location, etc...?
 
VS11
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:00 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):

Sure, but JetBlue wouldn't commit to hiring you. The article says graduates can apply to JetBlue or other carriers.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:09 am

I'd like to know more details. This is a good way to avoid the pilot shortage. But the details will be important.

Lightsaber
 
Okie
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:21 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
I'd like to know more details. This is a good way to avoid the pilot shortage. But the details will be important.

  
No details is correct.
Interesting this is Gateway 7 and B6 has six other recruitment programs in place as well according to the article with no details about those as well.

Sounding mysteriously or unmysteriously like a pay to fly campaign.
There is no doubt that B6 would ever consider eating the cost of training from 0 minutes to left seat much less qualifying someone for another airline at their expense.

Okie
 
Sparrow787
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:22 am

I wonder if this program succeeds and others decide to follow, what will this mean for regional carriers.
 
N1120A
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:23 am

Quoting sparrow787 (Reply 9):

I wonder if this program succeeds and others decide to follow, what will this mean for regional carriers.

Regional carriers should be embracing this. Might be their only means of survival.
 
LSZH34
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:28 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
European airlines, particularly LH and BA, have successfully done this for a long time.

You can add LX and WK to this.
 
FriscoHeavy
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:33 am

Wow. Depending on the details, I may have to apply for this. It would be a dream come true.
 
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FLIHGH
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:37 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):

Most are simply partnering with aviation universities. I know we at Purdue have a Seaport Republic flow in the works. Other than Republic, we have others who always have special deals with us.
 
Okie
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:19 am

Here is the Gateway program listed at B6 for what it is worth.
http://www.jetbluetalentgateway.com/

This new gateway7 program must be something other that what is listed.

Okie
 
TW870
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:44 am

Quoting Okie (Reply 14):
Here is the Gateway program listed at B6 for what it is worth.
http://www.jetbluetalentgateway.com/

This new gateway7 program must be something other that what is listed.

Yeah that is my question. It sounds like in the new program you are going to start in the simulator flying with other students. But my question is where the first line experience comes. Do you go to Cape Air like in the old program? I doubt it, because in the old program you would have started on the 172 and in light twins so the flying would more clearly match the conditions at Cape Air. In this new program will candidates go directly to RJs?
 
Sparrow787
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:46 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):

I agree, they sortof already do with flight schools such as atp, but I mean if these programs mean better pay at a mainline from the start, would this pressure regionals to increase pilot salaries?
 
flyby519
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:51 am

Quoting TW870 (Reply 15):

Zero to 1500hrs then right seat in a B6 E190 flying revenue flights.

Quote:
JetBlue is focused initially only on pilots for its 100-seat Embraer E190 jets. McGraw said that after the trial period, the airline will evaluate whether to extend the program, possibly to the larger Airbus Group SE aircraft that make up more than two-thirds of its 211-plane fleet. They carry at leas


[Edited 2015-11-25 17:52:26]
 
sierrakilo44
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:49 am

Essentially this sounds like a program where the candidates are thoroughly screened and selected, then put through an intensive, structured training course where they can be monitored by the airline, then farmed out to an a charter operator (like Cape Air) to get the necessary 1500 flight hours for the USA ATP. After that they get a start in the RH seat of the E190. In essence what a "cadet" pilot program is (bar the extra flying to get 1500 hrs). This way the airline gets a good quality candidate trained from scratch in the required multi crew flying and behaviours the airline wants from the start, exactly how most airlines outside of the USA do it. And seeing how most airlines outside of the USA aren't having their planes going down on a daily basis I'd say there isn't much of a safety issue. If it's a industrial tool to lower wages that'd be a problem but I can't see anywhere that says these pilots will be employed on a lesser contract.

As far as what the union spokesman says, sure there are many ATP qualified pilots out there at the moment, but just because they have an ATP doesn't mean they have the attitudes or the personality wanted by an airline to fly in an modern, multi crew jet.

I don't think this is an MPL program, because in an MPL you have to fly the aircraft type you are trained on in the MPL, and they'll need to fly a light aircraft to get the required 1500hrs experience.

[Edited 2015-11-25 18:49:59]

[Edited 2015-11-25 18:50:34]
 
flymia
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:36 am

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 17):
Zero to 1500hrs then right seat in a B6 E190 flying revenue flights.

Question is how they get from the 0 to 1,500.

While this is interesting news I don't see how it will be much different than their current program at aviation colleges where they interview and do an internship, get yours CFI and 1,500 hours then move to Cape Air for a few years, then move to B6. There are plenty of candidates in the university.

Unless they are really looking for very specific type of person I don't see the huge advantage in this compared to the program they already have. And while this might be interesting for someone looking for a career change, the four year time frame to get to the right seat is pretty long, wonder how low the pay would be during that time, and how much the "loan" would be during training. I suspect the training payment would be "free" as long as you pass all the way through and go to JetBlue and maybe accept lower initial payscale to pay for the training B6 gives you.

Will be interesting to follow.

States the program would start in 2016, but looks like no other details or application processes details have been released.

[Edited 2015-11-25 20:13:49]
 
Mir
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:01 am

Quoting sierrakilo44 (Reply 18):
Essentially this sounds like a program where the candidates are thoroughly screened and selected, then put through an intensive, structured training course where they can be monitored by the airline, then farmed out to an a charter operator (like Cape Air) to get the necessary 1500 flight hours for the USA ATP.

Problem: where does Cape Air get its pilots? Right now, pilots in the JetBlue pipeway program (or whatever it's called) go to Cape Air once they have 1500 hours, fly for Cape Air for a bit, then go to JetBlue. Cape Air needs ATP-qualified pilots to be their PICs, so people leaving for JetBlue as soon as they have 1500 hours doesn't help them. And they don't need SICs for most of their flights, so I'm not sure what they'd gain by being a part of this scheme.

-Mir
 
A332DTW
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:06 am

It would be interesting if the program would qualify pilots for their restricted ATP, chopping off those 500 hours. The way the law is on the books right now, it probably would not. However, if the regs could be amended to accommodate programs such as this, it could get some traction.
 
sierrakilo44
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:38 am

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 21):
It would be interesting if the program would qualify pilots for their restricted ATP, chopping off those 500 hours. The way the law is on the books right now, it probably would not. However, if the regs could be amended to accommodate programs such as this, it could get some traction.

And it should. If Jetblue can develop a comprehensive syllabus that goes beyond the standard Commercial licence and Instrument rating in single pilot aircraft and specifically gear it to multi crew airline operations aided with appropriate use of SOP's, CRM training, simulator time and multi pilot flying in a professional environment they'll be onto a winner IMHO. The 1500 hour rule was a knee jerk reaction by the US Congress that wouldn't have even prevented the accident it was a reaction to (both Colgan 3407 pilots had 1500+ hrs before joining the airline)

If LH, BA, LX, EI, VS, SA, U2, FR, TK, CX, KA, SQ, EK, QR, EY, BE, SA, QF, VA and countless others I can't remember off the top of my head can run successful cadet programs for decades that put ab-initio trainees successfully in the pilots seat of anything from a A320/737 to a 777 or A330 then so can North American airlines.

[Edited 2015-11-25 21:40:41]
 
b747400erf
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:25 am

The pilots will not be happy about this. Are there upcoming contract negotiations or something going on with the union that the airline might want to stir the pot?
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:47 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 23):
The pilots will not be happy about this. Are there upcoming contract negotiations or something going on with the union that the airline might want to stir the pot?

I don't see how this will hurt them. B6 is just protecting its future pilot supply that's all. With more airplanes you need more pilots.


I will be interesting to see if B6 follows BA layout. In which BA pays back a portion of your loan each year, this then entices the pilot to remain at BA longer.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:42 pm

The pilot shortage problem has not been from a lack of training opportunities.. theres tons of flight schools. The problem is the cost and barriers to entry compared to the payoff when you are done. It takes 5-10 years in wage increases before anyone could afford to even begin to pay off the $100,000K in debt.
 
flymia
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:33 pm

Another thing I saw on another forum, B6 lost 160 pilots last year that went from B6 to DL, AA, UA. FX, UPS. How many went from a major to B6? 2 pilots. B6 is a good airline to fly for, seems to have a great corporate environment and with current pay scale a 12 year captain makes around $170,000.00 not up there with the major pay scale but still pretty good and it will increase over time.

The issue is, B6 pay will likely never be as high as the big three, and certainly not as high as UPS or FedEx so they will always lose pilots to those airlines, plus there are those pilots who want to fly the 777 across the Atlantic or Pacific, something JetBlue does not do. At least not yet.

It really seems like B6 is protecting itself here, incase the shortage becomes bad enough that even airlines like B6 or WN are struggling to find high quality candidates.
 
Okie
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:32 pm

My previous link about existing program indicated about at least a 7 years to get to the right seat.

The Gateway7 program says they will start in mid 2016 and be on line in 2020. That is roughly 3.5 years or half the time.
If they have to complete 1,500 actual hours in an aircraft that would be 430hrs per year.
Looking like the program is looking to substitute a lot of sim time for flight time and class time.

Okie
 
tjh8402
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:36 pm

Quoting VS11 (Reply 3):

Indeed very interesting. However, students still pay for the training. The path is different though as you start directly with big jets. If I understood it correctly, JetBlue may want to have an arrangement with those student pilots that it really likes.

I fail to understand how this will help students much if they still are responsible for the cost of their training. Unless it's seriously discounted, that doesn't help much with the current barrier for most prospective student pilots - the astronomically high cost of education and the excessively long time it will take to earn enough $ just to pay those wages.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 25):


The pilot shortage problem has not been from a lack of training opportunities.. theres tons of flight schools. The problem is the cost and barriers to entry compared to the payoff when you are done. It takes 5-10 years in wage increases before anyone could afford to even begin to pay off the $100,000K in debt.

Bingo. The cost of education leading to massive student loan debt only graduate into years of low paying near minimum wage jobs was a big reason I ruled out being a professional pilot no matter how much I love aviation and airplanes.
 
joeycapps
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:08 pm

Delta Connection Academy was the first thing that popped in my head; I wonder if this program will be similar. They didn't guarantee job placement, but certain students did get a job with the regional carrier, and a chance to (eventually) work their way up to mainline. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got.
 
Cadet985
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:11 am

How long does it take for someone to go from 0-1500 hours?

Marc
 
b747400erf
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:13 am

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 24):
I don't see how this will hurt them. B6 is just protecting its future pilot supply that's all. With more airplanes you need more pilots.

Pay to fly cadets would not be looked kindly by the flying culture in America where people paid their dues in low time instructional flying and time building.
 
Mir
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:21 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 31):
Pay to fly cadets would not be looked kindly by the flying culture in America where people paid their dues in low time instructional flying and time building.

This doesn't seem like pay-to-fly. If the pilots are covering the cost of their own training, they're just doing what everyone else did. Now if they had to pay JetBlue to get into the program, or had to pay in order to build up their time to 1500 hours, that would be a different story.

The 1500 hour requirement will put the brakes on ab-initio training in the US. If they ever want to do what the European and Asian carriers do, they will have to prove to the FAA that they can deliver the same level of quality in a lower amount of flight experience. And the way this program is designed indicates that JetBlue is not yet ready to do that.

-Mir
 
b747400erf
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:35 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 32):

This doesn't seem like pay-to-fly. If the pilots are covering the cost of their own training, they're just doing what everyone else did. Now if they had to pay JetBlue to get into the program, or had to pay in order to build up their time to 1500 hours, that would be a different story.

Paying for a program that gives you the hours and a job to fly a jet from scratch is pay to fly. I may be mistaken but I would not be surprised to see the pilots unhappy and what it might do to wage growth for everyone.
 
Mir
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:00 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 33):
Paying for a program that gives you the hours and a job to fly a jet from scratch is pay to fly.

They're paying for training. That's normal. And they wouldn't be flying a jet from scratch. If they are, that speaks to problems with the training program itself, not who pays for it.

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 33):
I would not be surprised to see the pilots unhappy and what it might do to wage growth for everyone.

If they're on a B-scale contract, then yes it'll be a big issue. But I haven't seen evidence that that will be the case.

-Mir
 
burnsie28
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:55 am

I think one of the problems here could be that mainline carriers are requiring college degrees, of which this will not grant. With that being the case, you're better off going to places like the University of North Dakota, Purdue, Embry Riddle, etc.
 
flyby519
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:25 pm

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 30):

How long does it take for someone to go from 0-1500 hours

Through this JetBlue Program? Probably 3-4yrs and six figures of cost. Allatps.com would run about 2 years and a lot less cost, with several employment options at the end.
 
Jeff G
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:31 pm

JetBlue lost about 60 pilots to other airlines this past year, less than 2% attrition, and contrary to popular opinion, there's no shortage of qualified pilots at this level. Regional airlines are hurting maybe, but JetBlue is still a major airline and attracts far more experienced pilots from those carriers than it could ever hire.

No, I'm definitely not in favor of ab initio. It's completely unnecessary. It's an attempt to hire for attitude rather than aptitude, and I don't see how that can lead to a better, safer airline. If every regional airline developed flow-throughs or other favorable hiring arrangements with other majors, utterly decimating supply, then this might be an option to explore in the future. Might. Possibly. In 10-20 years. But not now. Something tells me there's more here than immediately apparent. It might be as simple as a mid-level executive justifying a bonus. It could be putting future strike-breakers in the training pipeline. Hard to say, but the hiring-because-of-the-pilot-shortage narrative doesn't pass the smell test.
 
Grisee08
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:50 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 5):

The very few that are selected are going to be very lucky. It will be like winning a slot at NASA. Thousands apply, few are selected.
 
CX747
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:29 am

I think that a true ab-initio program started in the US might open the door to a whole new pool of candidates for the carrier. The cost for training right now is carried by the student, with no real promise of employment at the end of the road. JetBlue guaranteeing employment would be a game changer. Make it through a rigorous training program with a seat in a 320 or 190 as the end reward is a fantastic deal. How does that differ from guys joining the military for a specific program? Join for Special Forces, get paid through training. If you make it to the end, then you are a SF guy. If you don't then you are either booted or go into another program of need. If you don't make the cut at B6, then you are on the hook for the training $$$. JetBlue can't run a SF program similar but they could tailor theirs to have the best aptitude and attitude guys sitting right seat in their buses and jungle jets.
 
Jeff G
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:10 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 39):
Make it through a rigorous training program with a seat in a 320 or 190 as the end reward is a fantastic deal.

For who? The pilots who have to babysit them, or maybe the unsuspecting paying passengers? "Rigorous training program" my eye. It's not unusual for 300-500 hr pilots to warm the right seat of a A320 or E190 in some parts of the world, but that's usually because there's no other option. There are thousands of already experienced pilots in the US who apply but aren't even interviewed. What is the need to hire "pilots" with no flying experience whatsoever?

It's not difficult to follow SOP in normal operations. The problem is that you can't count on normal operations all the time. When something outside the norm happens, you then have some guy who recently graduated from the "rigorous training program", hits all the right buttons, has memorized all the manuals, and is completely devoid of airmanship and judgment. Truly, all he can do is run checklists. He certainly won't be bringing experience, judgment and options to the table, because he doesn't have any. You get all that and more with a thinking human being with a decade or more of experience already under his belt, even as a new hire.

A major airline isn't the place to learn how to fly, not unless you are out of other options. The US major airline industry is not there yet, won't be soon, and may never be. This is a bad, bad idea.
 
Flighty
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:43 am

Jeff g you are right. The US majors have their pick of thousands of eager, high time twin jet pilots, and will have for the foreseeable 20 years. Regionals, no. But that is another subject. So whatever this is about, who knows.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:48 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 39):
The cost for training right now is carried by the student, with no real promise of employment at the end of the road.

Really? With a pulse and an ATP, you can pick where you want to work in the regional world.

-DiamondFlyer
 
Mir
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:21 am

Quoting Jeff G (Reply 40):
"Rigorous training program" my eye. It's not unusual for 300-500 hr pilots to warm the right seat of a A320 or E190 in some parts of the world, but that's usually because there's no other option.

It's not unusual for 300-500 hours pilots to be in the right seat of a C-17 in the US Air Force, and not just warming it but performing as a functioning member of the crew. They've got a rigorous training program, and rigorous entry standards. If the program is set up like that, then I don't see a problem.

Of course, it doesn't seem like it's going to be, since the applicants will still have to meet the ATP standards somehow.

-Mir
 
flymia
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:39 am

Quoting Jeff G (Reply 40):
A major airline isn't the place to learn how to fly, not unless you are out of other options. The US major airline industry is not there yet, won't be soon, and may never be. This is a bad, bad idea.

But the right seat of a 70 passenger CRJ, or a less advanced no autopilot B1900D with longer days, more takeoff and landings, typically less experienced captains, lower pay, more stress and the same responsibilities is? So low time guys should not be paid well, in a modern airliner with experience captains? That's what you think is a bad idea? Put them with the same amount of passengers in the back in a CRJ and its ok?

While I agree with you, that there is no immediate need for this right now, B6 has lost pilots to the legacies, there may be a need for this in 10 years and why not start now and get the thing right. I understand why union bosses and those who have "paid their dues" see this as a bad thing, at the same time some of the safest airlines in the world have programs just like this, BA, LH, CX, QF, and they have zero problems putting in 500-1,000hr pilots into the right seat of a A320, 777 or 737. These guys are flying an airplane, not performing heart surgery. I am not saying its easy, but with a great training program, (like many airlines around the world have) it is not hard to do it. As another poster said there are plenty of 500 hour pilots flying very large and/or powerful aircraft in the military in war zones, doing just fine.

Its not all about hours, honestly training and aptitude are typically more important, look at AF 447, look at Colgan, look at AA 965. All those guys had plenty of experience 1500hr + pilots, yet they all made fatal mistakes, due to poor training, not lack of hours.
 
Jeff G
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:02 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 44):
But the right seat of a 70 passenger CRJ, or a less advanced no autopilot B1900D with longer days, more takeoff and landings, typically less experienced captains, lower pay, more stress and the same responsibilities is? So low time guys should not be paid well, in a modern airliner with experience captains? That's what you think is a bad idea? Put them with the same amount of passengers in the back in a CRJ and its ok?

Honestly, regionals aren't my problem. What they do and how they do it is on them. Putting rank newbies, no matter how well their sim sessions went or the classroom time they had, in JetBlue cockpits IS my problem. I can see no practical justification - NONE - for doing this, not while there are thousands of pilots out there with - as you yourself admit - years of experience and thousands of hours in advanced aircraft who can't even get an interview. It would be one thing if our backs were against the wall and we couldn't fill classes, or if such an issue were on the horizon. But that's not the case.

This isn't an entry level job for starry-eyed youngsters wanting a break in a tough industry. It's not combat. It's not feeding a major on a fee-for-departure contract. This is a major airline, with 3200 pilots and more than 200 aircraft - the fifth largest airline in the US. It's the reality of transporting up to 200 people in perfect safety in and out of some of the busiest airspace and airports in the world. Sometimes things go wrong, and I want to have someone with more than switchology muscle memory to help solve the issue and terminate the flight safely. Given the very deep bench of aviation experience that already exists, I don't think I'm asking too much.
 
Mcoov
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RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:05 pm

Quoting Jeff G (Reply 45):
Honestly, regionals aren't my problem. What they do and how they do it is on them.

This makes no sense to me. It's okay for the regional airlines to hire low-to-no time pilots and train them themselves, but it's not okay for the majors to do it? Why? That's not consistent. Either it is, or it is not acceptable. The regionals are no different from the majors: you are carrying living human beings on fast moving, jet powered aircraft.
 
Jeff G
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 9:56 am

RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:41 pm

I'm not making that argument at all. Just saying they're not my problem. I can't fix all the ills in the industry, but I can call BS when I see my own company try something stupid.
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 3217
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:12 pm

This does make it harder for one of these cadets to leave B6. They have the hours and experience, but no degree. That helps B6. The initial cost may be lower for the cadet, but they may be hurting themselves in the long run by limiting their options later in their career.
 
sixtyseven
Posts: 830
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 am

RE: Jetblue To Train Pilots From Scratch

Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:59 pm

Anyone know of any FAA licensing issues this may bring up?

The multi-crew licensing system is in place in Europe and Asia not sure about North America.

If it requires changes to legal work good luck. The FAA is a big boat with a small rudder.

What I'm asking is what is the FAAs minimum requirement for an FO on say an A320. If it's an ATP then the MCL concept would need to get approved.

The cadet system is effective in Europe. BA and LH. It's needed in Asia but from what I hear it's a lot of work for the guys in the left seat.

It's a catch 22. No time kids can jump the line and get a job some guy has been slogging for years to get. It creates resentment. With balance and a good North American training standard there is upside. And hopefully if it expands it doesn't shut the doors on already qualified pilots in the industry looking to move up.

[Edited 2015-11-29 16:14:15]

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