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Ammad
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Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:40 am

"It was an attempt to humiliate and ostracise me," she said.

"I think this happened because I'm Muslim, because I'm travelling to Istanbul, because they have power with no checks and balances, because security means violating people's rights, because there's a general lack about what safety means, because people don't understand basic geopolitical situations."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mus...etoric-rises/ar-BBns3tg?li=BBnb7Kz
 
United1
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:10 am

Quoting Ammad (Thread starter):
"It was an attempt to humiliate and ostracise me," she said.

Sounds like customs wanted to talk to her a bit more and then the FBI got involved...I have no idea of the specifics of this case but it sounds like the young lady flagged somewhere.

While it was a UA flight that was involved it does not sound like she was asked to leave the plane by UA....
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seahawk
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:10 am

Islamophobia at its best. I hope she gets a big compensation and the officers involved get fired.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:15 am

If the FBI got in on it, there must be something more to the story. They don't play games like CBP is known to.
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:23 am

Maybe her name was on a watch list, knowing the American government if you are a journalist or politically active and a Muslim that is enough for them to suspect you, and flying to Turkey which is a stop over for those looking to join ISIS, freaked out the authorities? This wasn't a passenger or employee becoming suspicious like in other cases there is more to this story. She could share the name with someone the government thought was part of a terrorist group or during the American holiday and recent events in Paris, the government is becoming over sensitive.
 
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:24 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 2):
Islamophobia at its best

When I use your newly coined word, I promise to give you credit. A concise way of saying so much, great word!

Now, my Cousin married a dark skinned Indian man (From India) & although he is a US citizen & travels overseas for work often, he is almost always in the "randomly selected" passengers that require extra screening.

His credentials aside, he is also a lead designer at IBM for their print division. His passport is filled with extra pages & a ton of visas. He says he does not mind & he understands that safety is paramount & since he is racially profiled he could be angry over it, or just accept it is part of his routine when traveling. He doesn't have issues in Europe, Asia & Australia.

In fact once in Amsterdam together he was given a short priority line, while I languished with the rest of the passengers, he waited for me for 15 mins.
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:11 am

Maybe I'm pointing out the obvious, but someone travelling to Istanbul to 'join ISIS' is unlikely to be wearing a headscarf, or doing anything to otherwise draw attention to themselves.
Violence against Muslims (it can be symbolic, psychological etc. not just physical) is becoming so normalised that if people don't speak out against it, it can become much more endemic.
Now, airlines may deny boarding because of a) no proof of return or onward travel plans (essentially making the passenger to the country they're flying to), but this doesn't seem to be the case here.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 5):

Everyone has different coping mechanisms. Some people just have thicker skins in the sense that they don't let these things get to them. Also, once you know what to expect and it's just a matter of going through another line it's fine. But being questioned over specific plans by an officer who may be very intimidating, and being given the feeling of being singled out, as this woman was, certainly isn't pleasant.
 
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:28 am

G'day

Quoting seahawk (Reply 2):
Islamophobia at its best

Muslims, a small group of Muslims maybe, but Muslims nevertheless are responsible for the kind of terrorism we are fighting these days and that we all suffer from. So I guess you cannot blame anyone being somewhat more suspicious against that group of people....
  


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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:35 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 2):
Islamophobia at its best. I hope she gets a big compensation and the officers involved get fired.

Fear of an inherently intolerant and violent ideology like Islam (or Christianity for that matter) is not irrational, thus Islamophobia was a word makes no sense as phobia = an irrational fear. Fear of an individual Muslim on the other hand may or may not be irrational, depends from the person. I sure wouldn't want to share a room with ex ISIS fighter, however I would have no problem with sharing a room with an ordinary Muslim who doesn't hate me.

I bet there's more to this story than we are being told.

[Edited 2015-11-26 01:36:03]
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EA CO AS
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:39 am

Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight
  
This title is completely misleading; UA was in no way involved in what occurred to her, nor does it state she was "forced off" a plane.

You might as well say, "Muslim Forced To Miss Movie At Destination" while you're at it.
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ua900
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:48 am

Lots of Muslims travel between NY and IST without getting questions. She must have acted outside the envelope to trigger that reaction from the CBP and the FBI. My recommendation for her would be to get Global Entry, which shouldn't be a problem for her if she's not on a watch list. That way she could always show that card if needed. And she can always fly TK direct to IST instead of taking UA to somewhere in Europe and then connecting one more time there and run a similar risk there.

To those who think that the CBP agents should get fired and she should get a couple million $$$, that won't happen. And for those who say it's discrimination please bear in mind that risk based assessments are carried out *in response* to events that already occurred, not to preempt something that never happened.

Germans during WW1 and WW2 and Japanese during WW2 were subject to more drastic measures than Muslims today (wholesale confiscation and forfeiture of property including real estate, schools no longer teaching in German, internment camps, nonsensical renaming of food products etc etc etc) but guess what, even that behavior was risk based. People could and did prove their loyalty to the U.S. and got reinstated once they demonstrated in no uncertain terms what side they were on. To this day, there are clear provisions in both residency status and citizenship requiring an oath of allegiance to the U.S., especially in situations where people who attack the U.S. share the same background. Why not just take one on the spot if challenged?

Please think carefully before making wild accusations that people are being persecuted by the U.S. government simply because they are Muslims trying to fly to IST. Lots of Muslims fly between the U.S. and IST every day without any issues. No one takes away their passport, no one chases after them, no one bothers them. Secondary screening and anything that results from that is most often based on people not answering questions the way 90% of Americans would, not being able to carry a simple conversation, etc

[Edited 2015-11-26 01:53:46]
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F9Animal
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:49 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight
  
This title is completely misleading; UA was in no way involved in what occurred to her, nor does it state she was "forced off" a plane.

You might as well say, "Muslim Forced To Miss Movie At Destination" while you're at it.

Interesting way of putting it. I find it pathetic that when someone is offended, or in a situation..... The individuals always go for a reason to use their religion, sex, sexuality, or disorder as a reason for it. The media however is biased, and only seems to enjoy printing articles if it involves muslim or skin tone. We never see headlines like, "Mormon forced off XYZ flight."

People get so butt hurt over the stupid things in life. Don't get me started on the offended people topic.
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mariner
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:49 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
This title is completely misleading; UA was in no way involved in what occurred to her, nor does it state she was "forced off" a plane.

Hmmmm? Maybe I'm reading a different article.

From the link:

"She was later allowed on the United Airlines flight, but eventually forced to leave the aircraft ahead of take-off to be interrogated by an FBI agent."

She may mot have been "forced "to leave the plane" by United - but she was "required to leave the plane" by someone after she had boarded.

Unless there is some semantic difference of which I am not aware.

mariner

[Edited 2015-11-26 01:56:51]
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scbriml
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:52 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
This title is completely misleading

No, it's completely accurate. It doesn't say "United Airlines forces Muslim off flight." You obviously jumped to the wrong conclusion.
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:09 am

So how did anyone know she was Muslim? It's not like they ask such a question at CBP.
 
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:15 am

The incident may have happened exactly as the women described, but the article is short on detail. For example, how did she encounter CBP to begin with - departing passengers normally only see the TSA. Perhaps the original inquisitor's agency is misidentified. Also, where was the flight headed? UA no longer serves IST....so presumably she was connecting somewhere. Detail enhances credibility.
 
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:41 am

we are living dangerous weird times, some guys justify death and hatered in the name of religion, therefore our authorities have to take all action allowed and required to protect innocent people from all kinds of violence or threat. incidents or mistakes can happen

[Edited 2015-11-26 04:24:48]

[Edited 2015-11-26 04:27:41]
 
zrs70
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:04 pm

A few years ago, I had a ticket for LAX-EWR-MAD-IST, with a three month stop in MAD.

)I routed this way because one way tickets USA-IST were much cheaper than anywhere else, and I was using miles to fly home.)

I was in business class. I am a 1K million miler. I am Jewish, Caucasian, and gay. I was traveling with my husband.

I noticed there was lots of security at my gate, and I mentioned this to my husband. LO and behold, as I scanned my boarding pass to get on the flight at EWR, the UA agent called over to security, "here he is."

What ensued was about 7 minutes of repeated questions:

Why are you going to Madrid?
Have you been to Morocco recently? (I had been)
Do y have family in Istanbul?
(All these questions repeated over and over).

When they realized I wasn't going to be a problem, they let me on. But I was nervous that I would have problems upon arrival. But nothing else happened.

So I suppose there are various factors that can set off the red flag for the airline. In my case, it certainly wasn't islamophobia.
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lancelot07
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:20 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 2):

Islamophobia at its best. I hope she gets a big compensation and the officers involved get fired.

Some person was forced off a flight by authorities. It happened to be a female muslim. It could have been anyone.
It is self-victimisation at its best.
 
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seahawk
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:25 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 18):

Some person was forced off a flight by authorities. It happened to be a female muslim. It could have been anyone.
It is self-victimisation at its best.

That depends if the she was forced of the flight because she is a Muslim or for other reasons. The questions asked seem to indicate that her religion was driving factor in what happened.
 
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CARST
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:35 pm

Quoting worldrider (Reply 16):
btw: three questions to our muslim friends, isn't islam and islamic law justifiyng slavery, beheadings, crucification among other things?
hasn't your prophet declared "djihad" (war) against the infidels (non-muslims)?
and didn't your prophet go to war and fight non-believers(non-muslims), forced them to convert and used physical violence?
or am i totally mistaken or an analphabet?

I requested the deletion of your post. Because it is pure flamebait. If you are not as stupid as it seems, you know that our Western religion (Christianity) has EXCACT the same things written in our "holy book", the new and the old testament. But I still feel no need to kill non-christians.

The reason for the ongoing terrorism is not the islam. It is a religion like every other religion. And it started centuries ago when things were just more violent and religions were fighting each other. Todays terrorism comes from regions of low economic standards, low levels of education, hate which grew over decades due to Western-made conflicts. That is valid for homegrown terrorists from ghettos in PAR or BRU and for low-income people from the mid-east and central Asia.

Get a grip and stop posting flamebaits, this just gets the thread closed.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 19):
That depends if the she was forced of the flight because she is a Muslim or for other reasons. The questions asked seem to indicate that her religion was driving factor in what happened.

Even if she had to leave the plane because she was muslim and seemed dangerous to the authorities that is okay was me. While I am not a racist at all and can feel with all peace-loving muslims, I have to say that profiling is a good thing regarding security.
All the terrorists from Paris, Brussels or in Mali had one thing in common. They were muslims and looked like people from the mid-east. Who would you as a government agency search twice or more? The pale-looking woman with blond hair from Sweden or the muslim girl with the head-scarf? It sounds racist, but it is not. It is profiling at its best. Search for the people that look like the terrorist, because chances are high you'll find one. Is the police in Paris looking for pale-blond-haired women? No! They are looking for people who look like they could be born in the mid-east or have their routes to that region. This is just the time we are living in.

30 years ago the police in Europe would have searched people who would have white skin and looked like they are part of the left-wing-extremists which terrorized Europe at this time in Italy, Germany and other nations. Regarding profiling it sure got easier today...
 
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:47 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 20):

Even if she had to leave the plane because she was muslim and seemed dangerous to the authorities that is okay was me. While I am not a racist at all and can feel with all peace-loving muslims, I have to say that profiling is a good thing regarding security.
All the terrorists from Paris, Brussels or in Mali had one thing in common. They were muslims and looked like people from the mid-east. Who would you as a government agency search twice or more? The pale-looking woman with blond hair from Sweden or the muslim girl with the head-scarf? It sounds racist, but it is not. It is profiling at its best. Search for the people that look like the terrorist, because chances are high you'll find one. Is the police in Paris looking for pale-blond-haired women? No! They are looking for people who look like they could be born in the mid-east or have their routes to that region. This is just the time we are living in.

And that is simply wrong if you look at people like the German Salafists or Jihadi John from the UK. Apart from that it is stupid to believe that terrorists would not change their look, when it suits their mission. 3

Sura 9,5 should be known to them.
 
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:21 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 19):
That depends if the she was forced of the flight because she is a Muslim or for other reasons. The questions asked seem to indicate that her religion was driving factor in what happened.

We can assume quite a high proportion of muslim passengers on a flight to IST. One of them was "forced off" (how much force was used ?). So simply being muslim (who knew that she is?) is highly unlikely to have been the reason.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:32 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 18):
Some person was forced off a flight by authorities. It happened to be a female muslim. It could have been anyone. It is self-victimisation at its best.

If she'd been a white blonde named Mary-Beth Smith, it's very unlikely it would have happened.
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chepos
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:33 pm

Not a muslim, dark skin, hispanic and an airline employee (not really practicing any religion but raised Catholic). Now here is my story, I was headed to Israel for work. I booked a pass on LY to fly from LAX to TLV as it was easier and quicker. I arrived at the LY tkt counter at LAX before the counter opened (I thought I was being overly cautious). WRONG!, the security agents emploued by LY apparently assume if you do not fit a profile that you must be a terrorist and are going to harm Israel. I was held up in an office for seberal hours while these nasty Israeli sedurity people ask you the most annoying, onnoxious questions, looked through all my contacts, scnanned my IPOD and shoes for explosives. My laptop was taken to wherever for 3 hours along with all my bags. I gave them all my work credentials, my contact numbers for my boss, my contact in ISRAEL were I was staying and asked them to contact whomever. They would not listen amd did not want to believe I was headed for work. I was allowed to board 10 minutes to door closing, I would never fly on LY again (EVER). Yes, I get racially profiled often when flying (which is almost daily), everytime I come back to the US from an international trip I go to secondary (I am used to it), but when someone assumes you are a terrorist just because you look different this is no fun. I sympathize with this lady, I understand where she is coming from.
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lancelot07
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:47 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 24):
If she'd been a white blonde named Mary-Beth Smith, it's very unlikely it would have happened.

Maybe white blondes named Mary-Beth Smith were not that often involved in terrorist activities lately.
As has been written before, this is what profiling is all about.
 
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:53 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 23):
who knew that she is?

Look at her picture. Most people would assume she was muslim.

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 26):
As has been written before, this is what profiling is all about.

Earlier you said it could have been anyone, now your saying she was 'selected' because of profiling. Which would mean she was forced off the flight precisely because she was a muslim travelling to IST. Make your mind up.
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Stealthz
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:54 pm

Quoting Al Jazeera:
Rasheed, an artist, educator, Stanford University graduate, Fulbright scholar and contributing editor at The New Inquiry

The contributing editor at The New Inquiry part** might shed some light on the "agenda" of this article.
I would suggest Ms Rasheed sees her vocation as professional victim!

** Though not so significant to rate a mention in their masthead
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:54 pm

Going off topic here with lots of PC statements to boot:

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 7):
So I guess you cannot blame anyone being somewhat more suspicious against that group of people....

Understood.

The following is not an attack at you as you never claimed otherwise.

It's worth noting that this small group of Muslims aren't the only terrorists around. There are Buddhist extremists in Myanmar, Hindu extremists in India amongst others I'm sure I'm not aware of. I am not defending the actions of any of the above (the whole "they're not the only ones who do it so it's ok" shebang).

Quoting chepos (Reply 25):
I sympathize with this lady, I understand where she is coming from.

Sad to hear.

Back on topic:

Does anyone have an idea of the success rate of nabbing people through such profiling in the aviation industry? I'm not referring specifically to people being forced to deplane as the spectrum is rather wide from the mentally unstable to drunks.
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zrs70
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:55 pm

Quoting my own post to respond to this comment.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 24):

I was in business class. I am a 1K million miler. I am Jewish, Caucasian, and gay. I was traveling with my husband.
Quoting scbriml (Reply 24):
Quoting scbriml (Reply 24):
If she'd been a white blonde named Mary-Beth Smith, it's very unlikely it would have happened.
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JetBuddy
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:01 pm

Here we go again. Screaming racism and discrimination. I'm so sick and tired of it. The FBI would not enterrogate without a reason for it.

""The questions were circular and nonsensical," she said. "I wasn't going to the border with Syria. I was going to the tourist locations, to see the Hagia Sophia and take a ferry across the Bosphorus.""

Oh right...   
 
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scbriml
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:04 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 30):
Quoting my own post to respond to this comment.

You weren't forced off your flight, were you? So hardly an apples to apples comparison.   
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zrs70
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:09 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 32):

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 30):
Quoting my own post to respond to this comment.

You weren't forced off your flight, were you? So hardly an apples to apples comparison.   

Point well taken. We'll call it "red apple to green apple" comparison!  
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lancelot07
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:17 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 27):
Look at her picture. Most people would assume she was muslim.

we don't know how she looked and what she wore when the incident occured.
Photo (and report?) in #1 are provided by Al Jazeera.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 27):
Earlier you said it could have been anyone, now your saying she was 'selected' because of profiling.

Lots of muslims fly around every day, and are not asked to leave the plane. Therefore the fact of being muslim obviously was not a factor. And we don't even know if there was any suspicion of terrorism involved. It might just as well be suspicion of tax evasion, fraud, or some other circumstance. Even with profiling it might be anyone.

[Edited 2015-11-26 06:30:46]
 
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:19 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 11):
People get so butt hurt over the stupid things in life. Don't get me started on the offended people topic.

We just had a Southwest thread yesterday where people hold grudges for a decade because he got offended!, seems to me people nowadays have a lot of bitterness.... sadly.

Quoting CARST (Reply 20):
It is a religion like every other religion.

NOPE, read history.

Quoting CARST (Reply 20):
Todays terrorism comes from regions of low economic standards, low levels of education, hate which grew over decades due to Western-made conflicts.

Again read history, western did not invade Europe in the middle ages and your point are invalid.

Quoting aviationaware (Reply 22):
but to defend this society against outside attacks you have to make compromises.

Sadly, and I agree with the "rules" Better safe than sorry.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 24):
If she'd been a white blonde named Mary-Beth Smith, it's very unlikely it would have happened.

Hope they don't discover hair products...LOL

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 26):
Maybe white blondes named Mary-Beth Smith were not that often involved in terrorist activities lately.
As has been written before, this is what profiling is all about.

Exactly!, what would happen if th unthinkable happened and the flight exploded in the middle of the ocean (even if its unrelated to this particular pax?), they would fry all involved for not screening the flight.

I have a lot of things happened to me because I was in the watch list, so I prepared, had patience, learned to be calm and answer the questions. but its the world we live in, accept it or be bitter about it.

TRB
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pvjin
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:23 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 20):
Todays terrorism comes from regions of low economic standards, low levels of education, hate which grew over decades due to Western-made conflicts. That is valid for homegrown terrorists from ghettos in PAR or BRU and for low-income people from the mid-east and central Asia.

Todays terrorism is mostly related to Wahhabism/Salafism which is the state ideology of Saudi Arabia, a very rich country with relatively high level of education (even if not very secular). So it's not so simple after all, many poorer Islamic countries used to have rather low level of extremism until Saudis, Qataris and such started exporting their hateful totalitarian ideology using oil money that geography has unfortunately given them.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2241
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:35 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 4):
Maybe her name was on a watch list, knowing the American government if you are a journalist or politically active and a Muslim that is enough for them to suspect you

Absolutely false. But please continue to entertain us with your fabricated "evidence".

As you've proven in hundreds of posts with your anti-US politicking, you certainly do NOT "know the American government". I suggest if you want to discuss US politics so much, you at least educate yourself on the topic and stop embarrassing yourself.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
lancelot07
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:41 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 20):
I requested the deletion of your post. Because it is pure flamebait. If you are not as stupid as it seems, you know that our Western religion (Christianity) has EXCACT the same things written in our "holy book", the new and the old testament. But I still feel no need to kill non-christians.

You will find no such things in the new testament, especially no commandment to kill anybody ! The life of Jesus Christ himself proves it. The old testament is called so for a reason, and many parts were completely withdrawn in Christianity.
And one just has to compare the lives of Jesus and Mohammed.
 
aviationaware
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:14 pm

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 29):
Does anyone have an idea of the success rate of nabbing people through such profiling in the aviation industry?

The only ones who can tell are the services, and they are not going to tell just anyone. This is exactly the problem with data retention - only those who want to use the data can tell if it's valuable; and they are the natural proponents anyway. So all we can do is trust that they really see a valid point in this and are not just amassing power to topple us over one day. Personally, I trust that this is improving our security. It is really not much different to being stopped by police because of driving insecurely. Drunk people are driving insecurely, so driving insecurely is enough for them to have you do an alcohol test.
Terrorists are muslims, so being a muslim is enough for them to have you face higher scrutiny. I don't think that's unfair.

I am white, was traveling domestically and was wearing a suit, and I was still singled out for a strip search last weekend at security. You don't see me complaining, even though they didn't tell me why I was being strip searched (I didn't even set off the metal detector).

Also, as others have pointed out, the person we are talking about here was by far not the only muslim on the flight, yet the only one to be singled out. So being a muslim alone was probably not the thing that caused it. Certain minorities (though I am not sure you can even call muslims a minority in a global context, let alone when talking about a flight to Turkey) are just masters of self victimization.

Also, we all know that Turkey is the main point of entry for people going to join ISIS or returning to Europe. So frankly, and this is just my personal view, anyone objecting to increased scrutiny on Turkey flights is just a total madman and out of his mind. There's a reason for it being the main entry point, and that's lax security. So tightening that security can't possibly be bad at all.
There's just some more to all of this than an innocent person being inconvenienced.
 
BravoOne
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:25 pm

Quoting ua900 (Reply 10):
Germans during WW1 and WW2 and Japanese during WW2 were subject to more drastic measures than Muslims today (wholesale confiscation and forfeiture of property including real estate,

Nothing compared to what the Germans did to the Jews and other undesirables during the 30's and 40's. You left that out for some reason.

Personally I want every suspicious passenger checked and if necessary removed from the aircraft if necessary.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:31 pm

Quoting BravoOne (Reply 40):
Personally I want every suspicious passenger checked and if necessary removed from the aircraft if necessary.

Who gets to act as the "suspicion police"? I hope you don't mind being removed if someone else decides you look suspicious? Hmmm.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
intermodal64
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:37 pm

I'm a liberal agnostic guy who feels it's important to defend the rights of Muslims in America. But one has to realize that if you are traveling by yourself to Turkey on a one-way ticket these days you will have some explaining to do. Producing another one way ticket home on a phone would require some verification. Anyone up to no good can fake such an itinerary. I'm sorry she was humiliated, but these Federal agents were responding to some pretty bold flags and had an obligation to challenge this person. (I become humiliated at the drop of a hat, but that shouldn't become other people's problem.)
 
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GlenP
Posts: 266
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:56 pm

Quoting Intermodal64 (Reply 42):
I'm a liberal agnostic guy who feels it's important to defend the rights of Muslims in America. But one has to realize that if you are traveling by yourself to Turkey on a one-way ticket these days you will have some explaining to do

The passenger in question had a return ticket, claims to have demonstrated this to those questioning her, but reports that they ignored this.

See: http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/...FHDo?li=AAaeUIW?ocid=MSN_UK_RECIRC
Ubique Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt
 
trex8
Posts: 5611
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:02 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 20):
The pale-looking woman with blond hair from Sweden or the muslim girl with the head-scarf? It sounds racist, but it is not.

Breivik shot and killed 77 people 4 years ago in Oslo. According to the FBI more people have died in the US since 9/11 as a result of white supremacist attacks than at the hands of jihadists. Just saying.
 
trex8
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:04 pm

Quoting BravoOne (Reply 40):
Personally I want every suspicious passenger checked and if necessary removed from the aircraft if necessary.

Do you by chance have any passing resemblance to McVeigh. Because if you do I'd want you removed.
 
BravoOne
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:05 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 41):
Who gets to act as the "suspicion police"? I hope you don't mind being removed if someone else decides you look suspicious? Hmmm.

There are people who are trained for this and while it's not perfect it better than nothing. One or two airborne bombings would bring this industry and a few world economies to their knees. Lets not go there.

How could a Muslim women by humiliated? Just being a Muslim women screams humiliation in so many parts of the world.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:15 pm

Quoting BravoOne (Reply 46):
How could a Muslim women by humiliated?

If you don't know, then you're not trying very hard to imagine yourself in her shoes.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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MrHMSH
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:23 pm

Sorry to take this off-topic, but I feel I have to. I'll get back on track ASAP.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 44):

Breivik shot and killed 77 people 4 years ago in Oslo.

He acted alone and was mentally f*cked up. Saudi Arabia kill that number every year, and that's just one country. Let alone the numbers ISIS kill. What's your point?

Quoting trex8 (Reply 44):
According to the FBI more people have died in the US since 9/11 as a result of white supremacist attacks than at the hands of jihadists.

What defines a white supremacist attack? And how is this relevant?

Quoting trex8 (Reply 44):
Just saying a load of codswallop.

Fixed it for you.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 45):
Do you by chance have any passing resemblance to McVeigh.

Does looking similar to McVeigh have any increase in the likelihood of being a bomber? Or is it just coincidence. Looking like a person doesn't make you into any more of a terrorist, but being an adherent of a religion does.

On topic:

I don't agree in principle with racial profiling, it's at best a pot shot of whether you find the right person if you don't have prior intelligence (which should pinpoint a terrorist anyway), but then there are very few (i.e. no) Christian, Buddhist, Sikh or Jewish people seeking to blow up or hijack Western airliners.
 
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JetBuddy
Posts: 2586
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RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:25 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 44):
Breivik shot and killed 77 people 4 years ago in Oslo. According to the FBI more people have died in the US since 9/11 as a result of white supremacist attacks than at the hands of jihadists. Just saying.

And why do you think that is? Is it because jihadists suddenly started loving the good old USA, or do you think the FBI are doing their job and checking suspicious people? 73 serious terror attacks have been stopped in the US alone since 9/11. All of them were planned by Islamists.

Are there dangerous right-wing extremists out there? Yes definately. Should they be stopped and put under survaillance? Yes of course. But that is no arguement against profiling and survaillance of muslim extremists, which remain the absolute greatest threat.
 
trex8
Posts: 5611
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: Muslim Forced Off From United Airline Flight

Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:47 pm

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 48):
He acted alone and was mentally f*cked up. Saudi Arabia kill that number every year, and that's just one country. Let alone the numbers ISIS kill. What's your point?

The blonde guy isnt necessarily safer than the gal in the burka.

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 48):
What defines a white supremacist attack? And how is this relevant?

Your chances of dying since 9/11 in a terrorist attack in the US are higher at the hands of a White Anglo Saxon Protestant than a Middle Eastern Muslim.

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 48):
Does looking similar to McVeigh have any increase in the likelihood of being a bomber? Or is it just coincidence. Looking like a person doesn't make you into any more of a terrorist, but being an adherent of a religion does.

If they ONLY stopped Arab Muslims in the US you may have a point but Arab Christians (who make up almost 60%+ of the Arab American population) and even South Asians get unnecessary scrutiny. Sikhs have been beaten to death in the US for being "Muslim".

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 48):
I don't agree in principle with racial profiling, it's at best a pot shot of whether you find the right person if you don't have prior intelligence (which should pinpoint a terrorist anyway), but then there are very few (i.e. no) Christian, Buddhist, Sikh or Jewish people seeking to blow up or hijack Western airliners.

Granted the Christians , at least in the US, just blew up buildings and shoot people with automatic weapons and Jewish terrorists just blow up hotels with Brits in them and didnt hijack planes. Dont' forget Hindu Tamils were the original female suicide bombers. Sikhs have hijacked an occasional Indian plane.

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 49):
Are there dangerous right-wing extremists out there? Yes definately. Should they be stopped and put under survaillance? Yes of course. But that is no arguement against profiling and survaillance of muslim extremists, which remain the absolute greatest threat.

Actually our FBI doesnt agree with you that Muslim extremists pose the greatest threat, at least not nationally in the US, perhaps on airlines and at airports they do. And I have no problems with profiling per se either (I like to survive my daily commute through the south side of Chicago without being robbed/killed by a "bro") just most Americans can't tell a Sikh from the Taliban or realize most Arab Americans are as Christian as they are!

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