anplatinum
Posts: 44
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:37 am

Maybe they were just discussing the AC/DC song:

I'm dirty, mean and mighty unclean
I'm a wanted man
Public enemy number one
Understand
So lock up your daughter
Lock up your wife
Lock up your back door
And run for your life
The man is back in town
So don't you mess me 'round

'Cause I'm T.N.T. I'm dynamite
(T.N.T.) and I'll win the fight
(T.N.T.) I'm a power load
(T.N.T.) watch me explode
 
Brewfangrb
Posts: 292
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:52 am

Quoting art (Reply 98):
They also get murdered, mostly by people they know. Should they be frightened of the people they know because they are more likely to kill them than people they don't know?

        
 
trex8
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:52 pm

Those non Americans have to forgive us if you think our views are strange as we just finished celebrating the only occasion so far in American history where refugees/different looking/different speaking people were indeed ultimately responsible for the eventual murder and enslavement of the natives who kept the refugees alive when they arrived on these shores.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:55 pm

Quoting CO953 (Reply 96):
To me, it's a no-brainer to notify the crew if someone who "appears" to me to possibly be Muslim

Can you explain how a person appears to be Muslim - or Catholic, Protestant, Coptic Christian, Hindu, Buddhist for that matter?
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
afcjets
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:29 pm

Quoting brewfangrb (Reply 99):
it might occur to you that you're in far greater danger from a Fox News-watching, conservative, self-proclaimed Christian, white, male than a guy you think looks Muslim and you see he's texted "explosive".

How many airplanes have been brought down in the name of Jesus? Not abortion clinics, but airplanes, what this story is about.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:43 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 104):
How many airplanes have been brought down in the name of Jesus? Not abortion clinics, but airplanes, what this story is about.

Perhaps not in the name of Jesus, but the one having the most civilians on board seems to belong to white Caucasians, I do not know how Christian they felt.
 
afcjets
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:51 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 105):
Perhaps not in the name of Jesus, but the one having the most civilians on board seems to belong to white Caucasians, I do not know how Christian they felt.

Are you referring to Air India 182 in 1985?
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:22 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 50):
revising our national security policy from "if you see something suspicious, report it" to "but if it turns out to be a false alarm, you are going to pay a fine" would not go over well.

I think it would. Just like calling 911 to say you suspect something going on and then be questioned yourself for what it was that you saw. Otherwise, in the name of "security" we'll be reporting people for anything. This whole website thrives on how people take pictures of airplanes. An ignorant person might say that we're working with a foreign entity and have us detained even though all we're doing is taking pictures.

Let that sink in.

Quoting RIX (Reply 68):
The person should be punished for deliberate false reporting of emergency. Not for the very fact of reporting.

But they'll cry under the guise of "security" and be let off. Bottom line: if you report something it's because you're sure it's suspicious, not because you have a prejudice against an ethnic group or against someone.

Quoting RIX (Reply 73):
That competitor guy might even not care about being kicked out himself. Who cares, he just damaged you $500M

The fact that I'm powerless to sue for damages means that the system is totally off balance. The competitor will claim they felt unsafe, that they didn't know the Indian was from my company, and be let off with no big penalties.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 88):
Actually it just occurred to me, as misguided as she appears to be, she probably thought BLR was the city code for BaLtimoRe.

That is just stupid and just you justifying her actions.

All I can hope is that I never have a flight where you're on it. I can't imagine how it would be to look Middle Eastern (and people who have me on Facebook know I look the part even though I'm Hispanic), have an earworm case of "Titanium" by David Guetta (for example) and have you think it means I have a bulletproof vest and want to shoot the plane down. But hey, it's all in the name of security so you're justified in it while I have to go through the process of being detained and questioned. So while you arrive to your destination with a smirk on your face I may be held indefinitely.

[Edited 2015-11-29 11:28:50]
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
mjoelnir
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 106):
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 105):
Perhaps not in the name of Jesus, but the one having the most civilians on board seems to belong to white Caucasians, I do not know how Christian they felt.

Are you referring to Air India 182 in 1985?

No i meant MH 17, but now we have already to big ones without muslimic participation and than there is Cubana flight 455, you should perhaps ask one of your 3 letter organisations about that, but I am pretty sure that Muslims were not involved.
 
afcjets
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:25 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 105):

Air India 182 is the flight that was bombed that had the most civilians onboard in history, 329. Here are the names of the culprits behind the attacks, they don't really sound Caucasian to me (so I guess that makes me a bigot form an opinion of where someone possibly might or not be from or their religion by their name, their accent, their skin tone, or whether or not they are wearing a turbin).

These names come from ABC News, linked below, the second paragraph comes from wikipedia, can you believe the nerve of some bigot going onto Wikipedia and linking this to Islamic terrorism?

Parmar, a Sikh preacher, was born in the village of Panchata in Punjab
Inderjit Singh Reyat
Ripudaman Singh Malik
Ajaib Singh Bagri
Surjan Singh Gill
Hardial Singh Johal

The initil suspect Talwinder Singh Parmar confessed that Lakhbir Singh Brar Rode, leader of the Sikh separatist organization International Sikh Youth Federation (ISYF) was the mastermind. There are allegations that the ISYF has been supported by Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence organization which has been linked to Islamic terrorism organizations.


http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=82216&page=1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_airliner_bombing_attacks
 
afcjets
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:35 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 108):
No i meant MH 17, but now we have already to big ones without muslimic participation and than there is Cubana flight 455, you should perhaps ask one of your 3 letter organisations about that, but I am pretty sure that Muslims were not involved.

So once again, how many aircraft have been brought down in the name of Jesus? Remember I was responding to someone who said I should be more suspicious of a white male Christian who watches the most popular cable news channel in the US versus a Muslim texting about explosives.

[Edited 2015-11-29 11:36:48]
 
bennett123
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:40 pm

So far no comments on reply 89.

Is there any evidence supporting the allegation.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:40 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 110):
So once again, how many aircraft have been brought down in the name of Jesus? Remember I was responding to someone who said I should be more suspicious of a white male Christian who watches Fox News versus a Muslim texting about explosives.

As I said, not in the name of Jesus, but by Christians, MH17 and Cubana 455, or what religions are in those areas of the world?
 
afcjets
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:54 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 107):
revising our national security policy from "if you see something suspicious, report it" to "but if it turns out to be a false alarm, you are going to pay a fine" would not go over well.
I think it would.

Dude, then write your Congressman or Obama, I didn't make the policy.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 107):
Actually it just occurred to me, as misguided as she appears to be, she probably thought BLR was the city code for BaLtimoRe.
That is just stupid and just you justifying her actions.

Not sure how you interpret that as me justifying her actions when I am calling her out. If my theory is true, it proves she made it up, and she got caught by not knowing the city code for BWI.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 107):
All I can hope is that I never have a flight where you're on it. I can't imagine how it would be to look Middle Eastern (and people who have me on Facebook know I look the part even though I'm Hispanic),

I can't remember being on a flight where there were no Middle Eastern (oops I mean Middle Eastern looking) passengers. I have never witnessed or reported suspicious activity of another passenger, and I don't look at other passengers text messages, so you can relax.
 
Unflug
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:39 am

Quoting CO953 (Reply 96):
To me, it's a no-brainer to notify the crew if someone who "appears" to me to possibly be Muslim (and yes, even if that "possibly" is relying upon my own sterotypes, which have been formed by my own experiences in the world, and which may innocently but falsely rule people in - or out - of my perceived identification of who may appear to me to be a Muslim), and not a grandmother or little kid, is seen to be sending or receiving texts using words pertaining to explosives.

Agreed, it's a clear indication of having no brain.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 111):
So far no comments on reply 89.Is there any evidence supporting the allegation.

You'll probably have to wait forever.
 
ytz
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:58 pm

What annoys me is the lack of balance. Most legal frameworks have balance, fairness and compensation for false accusations.

You walk in to a police station and accuse your neighbour of being a drug dealer just because he's black and drives a nice car, the cops would likely laugh you out of there. And if they didn't and decided to detain him without cause, that caused him actual economic harm, there'd be legal consequences for the police department.

No such compensation for "flying while brown". You're just supposed to be happy that you weren't more severely discriminated against. That's what's ridiculous.

You want to put me through extra screening because of the colour of my skin? You're within your rights. But if you decide to deboard me, because of some random accusation that turns to be entirely baseless, I'll expect and should receive compensation. As is the accepted norm in every other aspect of life.
 
afcjets
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:40 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 89):
Going back to the OP.When the phone was checked, the text was not found.If recently deleted, could the cops have found evidence of it.Alternatively, did they trace the offending newsfeed.Not clear what the passenger did actually see.
Quoting bennett123 (Reply 111):






So far no comments on reply 89.

Is there any evidence supporting the allegation.

Probably because none of us were there and all we know is what we read in the article linked above. Cops could not have found deleted text but I would imagine like on a computer, an expert could recover something deleted until the phone ran out of memory and needed to overwrite it. The passenger in question said they were watching the news on their phone and it was only speculated that is what the woman could have read. She claims she saw dynamite BLR but she could be confused, delusional, or as most people here want to believe, she made it up completely because they were brown and she was afraid to fly with them or just wanted to have them kicked off because she hates Middle Easterners.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 115):
But if you decide to deboard me, because of some random accusation that turns to be entirely baseless, I'll expect and should receive compensation.

There is also no proof she made it up and that it was baseless, although many of you feel even if her claim was true it was insufficient, in which case you can blame the Spirit pilot and/or the BWI security staff that removed the passengers as it was their call, not hers. It would have been very simple for them to delete a text, it takes about 2 seconds, and with the passenger telling the FA,, the FA telling the captain, the passengers not cooperating with crew instructions, calling the authorities, going back to the gate, there was plenty of time for them to delete a text which they would obviously would have done had there been a text about explosives they were denying, even if it was a harmless reference. That scenario is just as likely as the woman making it up or not knowing the difference between a text and a news feed and since we don't know her or them, none of us know for certain.
 
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longhauler
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:00 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 115):
No such compensation for "flying while brown". You're just supposed to be happy that you weren't more severely discriminated against. That's what's ridiculous.

Sadly, in the Paranoid States of America ... that is common practise.

If the American carriers truly want to be "world class", they are going to have to learn the "world" is not just Caucasian/Christian. Rest assured, airlines like British Airways, Cathay Pacific or Qantas, for example, would have dealt with this differently. Heck, even Air Canada has a very strong zero tolerance anti-bullying policy with regard to racism and harrassment ... both internally and when dealing with Customers.

Understand, I am not talking about being Politically Correct, that has been around for decades ... I am talking about flat out racism. And Air Canada employees have been fired when found to be racist!

I am reminded of a line in our Flight Operations Manual when dealing with "suspicious passengers" that states ... "If when dealing with this passenger, your view or perception would be different if they were caucasian, then you ARE racist!"
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
afcjets
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:43 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 117):
I am reminded of a line in our Flight Operations Manual when dealing with "suspicious passengers" that states ... "If when dealing with this passenger, your view or perception would be different if they were caucasian, then you ARE racist!"

Does Air China permit texting during taxi before takeoff?
 
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longhauler
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 118):
Does Air China permit texting during taxi before takeoff?

Air China? Who knows? Who cares?

But remember, it is the activity that is suspicious, not the race. But the initial report specfies the race of the "offenders" as "MIddle Eastern looking" which brought about this entire thread.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
afcjets
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:20 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 119):
Does Air China permit texting during taxi before takeoff?
Air China? Who knows? Who cares?

According to your profile you work for them:

Occupation: CA B767 YYZ

Quoting longhauler (Reply 119):
But remember, it is the activity that is suspicious, not the race. But the initial report specfies the race of the "offenders" as "MIddle Eastern looking" which brought about this entire thread.

The article indicates they were texting during taxi before takeoff which is a violation and why Spirit said they were removed from the flight.
 
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gatibosgru
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:14 pm

To the people supporting profiling here, let's replace Muslim withs "lone white males" and terrorism with "mass shootings".

Quoting CO953 (Reply 96):
In a world where there have been, for the last 15 years solid, repeated massacres committed worldwide by white males, overtly invoking their religion/misogyny/political view, it seems to me that in modern Western society there exists a dangerously naive, obstructionist resistance to basic profiling.
Quoting CO953 (Reply 96):
It's empirical fact that, percentage-wise, many more Caucasian individuals are Mass Shooters, than non-Caucasian. It's empirical fact that many more mass attacks by White Males have been committed by Caucasian-appearing Christians than by non Caucasian-appearing Muslims. I don't consider that to be racism - I'm just looking at the relative distribution of Christianity among ethnicities, crossindexed with the frequency of mass shooting attacks.
Quoting CO953 (Reply 96):
To me, it's a no-brainer to notify security at a movie theatre if someone who "appears" to me to possibly be White Christian (and yes, even if that "possibly" is relying upon my own sterotypes, which have been formed by my own experiences in the world, and which may innocently but falsely rule people in - or out - of my perceived identification of who may appear to me to be a Mass Shooter), and not a grandmother or little kid, is seen to be sending or receiving texts using words pertaining to guns.

Because really, profiling has always helped us catch the bad guys.
@DadCelo
 
afcjets
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:43 pm

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 121):
Because really, profiling has always helped us catch the bad guys.

It appears to work for El Al, the most secure airline in the world, yet based in the most dangerous part of the world for terrorist attacks.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/17...urity-rest-world-needs-learn-el-al

I think it is naïve to think racial profiling is not going on behind the scenes by European, Canadian, Austrailian and US authorities and why someone travelling on a passport from an area with a lot of terrorism is going to be profiled.
 
bennett123
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:03 pm

Perhaps someone from India could indicate if there was a recent news story about dynamite and Bangalore.

Incidentally could Dynamite BLR be a sports team.

If not, and there was no text message on the device, (which seems to be ruled out) then surely the allegation was false.
 
chicawgo
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:38 pm

I feel like so many of these posts look too specifically and then enjoy the benefit of hindsight to throw accusations.

Shouldn't we all take a step back and look at the CONTEXT? The media bombards us 24/7 with reasons to be terrified. There had just been the worst mass murder in Paris since World War 2. Pundits on TV and print are reminding us that the US is next. Is it really fair to blame this person for being on edge, even though she was ultimately mistaken?

I fear a world where people are afraid to speak up because they know they will lose either way. If they speak up and they're wrong, the media (and many on a.net) blast them for being racist. If no one speaks up and there is a horrific incident, the media (and many on a.net) immediately look who to blame asking "how could they not speak up when they saw these warning signs?"

This person truly believed she saw the word "dynamite." In her state of mind at the time, she did the morally correct thing. I doubt she boarded the plane planning to discriminate against Muslims.

Can those of you that are screaming discrimination just picture for a moment a story where there is a terrorist attack and they find that a gate agent had overseen a text exchange with suggestive words (whether it's dynamite, blow up, detonate, whatever)? People would go nuts on the agent claiming that they sacrificed human lives for political correctness. You just can't win! And this is a totally believable and possible hypothetical scenario.

I am not saying that stereotyping is good in most situations. I'm just saying that I don't think this person acted unreasonably considering the circumstances. Everything isn't black and white. Actions should be viewed and assessed within their context.

Remember that Richard Reid was discriminated against simply for acting weird and his looks.
 
jamincan
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:56 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 26):
Probably for two reasons. First, Muslims are not as large a segment of the US population compared to Europe. Secondly, 9/11 was a plot against America using US airliners, not an attack against Canada using Air Canada jets as weapons. And yes I realize Canada is not in Europe, I was just personalizing for you.

268 Canadians were killed in the Air India 182 bombing. Despite the bombing being perpetrated by Sikh terrorists, our government recently appointed a decorated Sikh veteran, Harjit Sajjan as our new Minister of Defense and Sikh's are generally well integrated in all aspects of Canadian life. I don't think at any point people were kicked off airlines in Canada for the crime of wearing a turban and speaking a foreign language.

The fact of the matter is that since 9/11, right-wing extremists are responsible for far more fatalities in the US than Islamic extremists. People don't seem to be letting facts get in the way of good-ol' traditional prejudice though.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:43 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 120):
Quoting longhauler (Reply 119):
Does Air China permit texting during taxi before takeoff?
Air China? Who knows? Who cares?

According to your profile you work for them:

Occupation: CA B767 YYZ

If you'd been around these forums for more than 5 minutes, you'd know he flies for Air Canada.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 122):
It appears to work for El Al, the most secure airline in the world, yet based in the most dangerous part of the world for terrorist attacks.

LY's profiling is much more sophisticated than skin colour.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
ytz
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:12 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 117):

Spot on. And for my many criticisms of AC, this is exactly why I am much more comfortable flying AC than any American carrier. And will often do so, even with higher fares sometimes. AC's professionalism and tolerance (of both staff and passengers) deserves to be rewarded with my hard earned $$$.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 120):
The article indicates they were texting during taxi before takeoff which is a violation and why Spirit said they were removed from the flight.

Does Spirit remove every pax who texts during taxi or just the ones who look Middle Eastern?

Quoting afcjets (Reply 122):
It appears to work for El Al, the most secure airline in the world, yet based in the most dangerous part of the world for terrorist attacks.

You wouldn't see El Al deobarding for such a ridiculous reason as this. Their profiling is based on screening BEFORE boarding the aircraft. And this:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 126):
LY's profiling is much more sophisticated than skin colour.

Oh and El Al does lose lots of business to other airlines specifically because there are lots of passengers who don't want to deal with their policies and procedures. How much business are American carriers willing to lose for bigotry-based security theater?

Quoting chicawgo (Reply 124):
This person truly believed she saw the word "dynamite." In her state of mind at the time, she did the morally correct thing. I doubt she boarded the plane planning to discriminate against Muslims.

Can those of you that are screaming discrimination just picture for a moment a story where there is a terrorist attack and they find that a gate agent had overseen a text exchange with suggestive words (whether it's dynamite, blow up, detonate, whatever)? People would go nuts on the agent claiming that they sacrificed human lives for political correctness. You just can't win! And this is a totally believable and possible hypothetical scenario.

This is why you don't make a policy that is half-assed. If the threat is serious enough to deboard 4 pax, then it is seriousl enough to deboard all pax and have the aircraft swept. If we are talking a legitimate threat, than did the threat suddenly ameliorate because they deboarded 4 passengers. How do you know there were no other accomplises? How do you know they didn't leave something behind on the aircraft? How do you know they didn't sneak something into someone else's carry-on? If you think the threat is serious, act like it. Deboard everyone, re-screen all their baggage and sweep the aircraft. Anything less is a veneer of security theatre covering underlying racism.
 
chicawgo
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:24 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 127):
This is why you don't make a policy that is half-assed. If the threat is serious enough to deboard 4 pax, then it is seriousl enough to deboard all pax and have the aircraft swept. If we are talking a legitimate threat, than did the threat suddenly ameliorate because they deboarded 4 passengers. How do you know there were no other accomplises? How do you know they didn't leave something behind on the aircraft? How do you know they didn't sneak something into someone else's carry-on? If you think the threat is serious, act like it. Deboard everyone, re-screen all their baggage and sweep the aircraft. Anything less is a veneer of security theatre covering underlying racism.

That is an excellent point and I completely agree with you. They should have treated it like any other situation where they fully deboard and rescreen.
 
trex8
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:34 pm

Quoting chicawgo (Reply 124):
Remember that Richard Reid was discriminated against simply for acting weird and his looks.

Most people who try to light a fuse going to a shoe and is emitting sufficient smoke for a pax to complain to a FA would attract attention on a plane. I hope.
 
chicawgo
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:48 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 129):
Most people who try to light a fuse going to a shoe and is emitting sufficient smoke for a pax to complain to a FA would attract attention on a plane. I hope.

They didn't know what he was doing. They didn't know he was trying to light a fuse to a shoe. They just saw him acting extremely weird.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:54 pm

Quoting chicawgo (Reply 130):
They didn't know what he was doing. They didn't know he was trying to light a fuse to a shoe. They just saw him acting extremely weird.

Rubbish!

A passenger on the flight complained of a smoke smell in the cabin shortly after a meal service. One flight attendant, Hermis Moutardier, thinking she smelled a burnt match, walked along the aisles of the plane, trying to assess the source. A passenger pointed to Reid, who was sitting alone near a window and attempting to light a match. Moutardier warned him that smoking was not allowed on the airplane. Reid promised to stop.

A few minutes later, Moutardier found Reid leaned over in his seat. Her attempts to get his attention failed. After asking "What are you doing?" Reid grabbed at her, revealing one shoe in his lap, a fuse which led into the shoe, and a lit match. She tried grabbing Reid twice, but he pushed her to the floor each time, and she yelled for help, and ran to get water. When another flight attendant, Cristina Jones, arrived to try to subdue him, he fought her, biting her thumb, and Moutardier threw water in his face. Several passengers worked together to subdue the 6 foot 4 inch (193 cm) tall, 200+ pound (90+ kg) Reid. They restrained him using plastic handcuffs, seatbelt extensions, leather waist belts and headphone cords. A doctor on board administered a tranquiliser to him which he found in the emergency medical kit of the airliner.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
chicawgo
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RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:38 am

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 131):

Rubbish!

A passenger on the flight complained of a smoke smell in the cabin shortly after a meal service. One flight attendant, Hermis Moutardier, thinking she smelled a burnt match, walked along the aisles of the plane, trying to assess the source. A passenger pointed to Reid, who was sitting alone near a window and attempting to light a match. Moutardier warned him that smoking was not allowed on the airplane. Reid promised to stop.

A few minutes later, Moutardier found Reid leaned over in his seat. Her attempts to get his attention failed. After asking "What are you doing?" Reid grabbed at her, revealing one shoe in his lap, a fuse which led into the shoe, and a lit match. She tried grabbing Reid twice, but he pushed her to the floor each time, and she yelled for help, and ran to get water. When another flight attendant, Cristina Jones, arrived to try to subdue him, he fought her, biting her thumb, and Moutardier threw water in his face. Several passengers worked together to subdue the 6 foot 4 inch (193 cm) tall, 200+ pound (90+ kg) Reid. They restrained him using plastic handcuffs, seatbelt extensions, leather waist belts and headphone cords. A doctor on board administered a tranquiliser to him which he found in the emergency

I'm saying that the people that ran to subdue him didn't know what was going on. They just heard the FA screaming for help.

But Do you realize the irony here? It's terrifying that several minutes went by! The FA saw him trying to light a match and did nothing!! If it weren't for the malfunction they probably would all be dead.

However, what if it was truly just a Middle Eastern looking man that that didn't understand the rules? Activists would be screaming discrimination because they tackled an innocent Muslim for making a mistake and never would have done that if he was Caucasian.

I'm not really taking sides here. My original post was just to say that I think it should be understandable why the woman acted that way.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3059
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:13 am

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 126):
If you'd been around these forums for more than 5 minutes, you'd know he flies for Air Canada.

I first assumed he flew for AC based on how much he mentioned them and thought perhaps it was a typo in his profile, but then I thought I have been here less than a year, and he is going on 12 years and 6000 posts, so surely he or someone would have noticed by now. I am assuming it is intentional because as of right now after he has posted again after both our our posts it still shows:

Occupation: CA B767

Quoting YTZ (Reply 127):
Does Spirit remove every pax who texts during taxi or just the ones who look Middle Eastern?

I haven't heard much about Spirit crews, but over the years I have heard stories (some even before 9/11) of UA and AA flight attendants threatening to have FC passengers removed or arrested (just United) upon landing if they argue with them for things much more trivial than refusing to turn off a PED for taxi and takeoff, and not once did I see it mentioned where they were Middle Eastern or Middle Eastern looking.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 127):
You wouldn't see El Al deobarding for such a ridiculous reason as this. Their profiling is based on screening BEFORE boarding the aircraft. And this:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 126):LY's profiling is much more sophisticated than skin colour.

Indeed, as it should be.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 127):
Oh and El Al does lose lots of business to other airlines specifically because there are lots of passengers who don't want to deal with their policies and procedures. How much business are American carriers willing to lose for bigotry-based security theater?

I don't know, perhaps as much as El Al if the US had the same amount of terrorism as Israel, and probably less than they would lose if they didn't and the terrorists experienced some success on airliners like they do on buses in Israel.

Quoting chicawgo (Reply 124):
Remember that Richard Reid was discriminated against simply for acting weird and his looks.
Quoting trex8 (Reply 129):
Most people who try to light a fuse going to a shoe and is emitting sufficient smoke for a pax to complain to a FA would attract attention on a plane. I hope.

Yes, but chicawgo is likely referring to the day before when Richard Reid was booked on the same flight but was stopped at security because his appearance was disheveled and he was acting weird and when they questioned him, he refused to answer completely and he was turned away.

[Edited 2015-11-30 22:57:31]
 
Brewfangrb
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:13 am

RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:32 am

Quoting chicawgo (Reply 124):
Is it really fair to blame this person for being on edge, even though she was ultimately mistaken?

Yes. If you're "on edge" because of nonsensical media hyperbole and are poking around looking at people's phones, then yes, I DO blame her. For being, at a minimum, an idiot and more likely, a bigot.

Quoting chicawgo (Reply 124):
This person truly believed she saw the word "dynamite."

You have absolutely no way to know what she "truly believed". If someone interviews her and asks if she truly believed it was suspicious, what is she going to say: "I want those [insert slur] off planes!" or "Yes, I REALLY did believe I say "dynamite"".

Quoting afcjets (Reply 120):
The article indicates they were texting during taxi before takeoff which is a violation and why Spirit said they were removed from the flight.

Alrighty. So 10,000 people a day are getting deboarded on US flights, hmm? No? Oh. Well, now I'm really confused.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 127):
This is why you don't make a policy that is half-assed. If the threat is serious enough to deboard 4 pax, then it is seriousl enough to deboard all pax and have the aircraft swept. If we are talking a legitimate threat, than did the threat suddenly ameliorate because they deboarded 4 passengers. How do you know there were no other accomplises? How do you know they didn't leave something behind on the aircraft? How do you know they didn't sneak something into someone else's carry-on? If you think the threat is serious, act like it. Deboard everyone, re-screen all their baggage and sweep the aircraft. Anything less is a veneer of security theatre covering underlying racism.

I couldn't agree more. As I've said many times in this thread already: If the ethnicity, race or religion of the passengers in question had NOTHING to do with anything, only their behavior, how in the world could you possibly know the aircraft was safe without re-screening every other passenger, their baggage and the aircraft itself? You can't. If the "they're suspicious!" lady didn't get off the plane and the flight crew refused to clear the aircraft, I'd be off it in 2 seconds.

Unless, of course, she was just a paranoid whackjob who watches too much Fox News.

Quoting chicawgo (Reply 132):
I'm not really taking sides here. My original post was just to say that I think it should be understandable why the woman acted that way.

Nope. Nooooope. It's only understandable to those who abide racism, bigotry and pointless security theater.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3059
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:28 am

Quoting brewfangrb (Reply 134):
Quoting afcjets (Reply 120):The article indicates they were texting during taxi before takeoff which is a violation and why Spirit said they were removed from the flight.
Alrighty. So 10,000 people a day are getting deboarded on US flights, hmm? No? Oh. Well, now I'm really confused.

I have no clue how many people per day text after they are told to turn off PEDs before takeoff and like I said, I don't look at other passengers' text  



[Edited 2015-12-01 01:55:22]
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 6421
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:37 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 120):
According to your profile you work for them:

Occupation: CA B767 YYZ

Captain B767 Toronto.

As far as I know, Air China has no Canadian Based pilots.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
777ord
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:04 pm

RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:57 pm

you have to be kidding me...... People are just crazy.... Just totally at a loss for words with the insanity people have in our country.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3059
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: 4 Deplaned After Woman Sees Text Saying Dynamite

Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:17 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 136):
Captain B767 Toronto.

As far as I know, Air China has no Canadian Based pilots.

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying lol. I know that some Asian carriers have bases in North America, because the hotels can be more expensive here and they save. IIRC Asiana had and may still have a FA base in LAX for that reason. Not even sure if CA flies to YYZ as I don't follow them.

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