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dubaiamman243
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A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:03 am

ABC news has posted a video on their FB page showing a windy landing of a B737 at Madeira Airport in Portugal.

Video link: https://www.facebook.com/abcnews/videos/10152855890688812/

please delete if discussed before.
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TheSonntag
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:10 am

Awesome video.

My question to pilots - at around 5 seconds in the vid, the plane goes down and a lot of thrust is applied. Just watching from the outside, is it wise to continue approach in such a case, or would this be a mandatory go around?
 
NAV30
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:59 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 1):
is it wise to continue approach in such a case

I've only flown smaller aeroplanes, in much less threatening conditions. But, as far as I can tell, the 'pilot flying' coped with a lot of 'gusts' early in the approach, but (at about forty feet) managed to achieve level flight and settle on the runway line.

From then on (while remaining vigilant) the correct procedure would have been to go on and land. But he could, if necessary, have abandoned the approach, put on full power, and 'gone around' at any time, had conditions deteriorated again.

[Edited 2015-11-27 06:01:34]
 
michaelg90222
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:39 pm

Great Video!

I take it this is a common problem there at this time of year.

I have experienced what crosswinds can do at FNC, after being stranded there for 19 hours in November last year.

I seem to remember the only aircraft that made a successful landing and didn't have to go-around was a very ballsy Swift Air ATR freighter! My flight (Monarch), several EZ and several TP flights diverted to the Canaries.
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ThirtyEcho
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:45 pm

Really getting tired of the media headlining every video of a pilot applying proper crosswind, gusty conditions technique as a "Scary Airliner Landing." Its as if every approach with the nose pointed somewhere besides right down the center line is a narrow escape from certain death.
 
jc2354
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:23 pm

Looks like it may be a video by samuel passos. He has a great collections of the action at Madeira. I've been watching his stuff for a long time. http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZJJSfojvkz4acPF1yTon4g
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trnswrld
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:19 pm

I know this is a bit harsh, but I am honestly surprised an airplane hasn't crashed yet landing at this airport. Those look like some extremely difficult conditions that pilots often face going there and I assume its the design and location of the airport that plays a big factor.
 
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scbriml
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:25 pm

Pilots doing their job. Looks impressive, but really not as bad as the press would have us believe.

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 6):
Those look like some extremely difficult conditions that pilots often face going there and I assume its the design and location of the airport that plays a big factor.

Pilots are trained to cope with cross-winds.
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Navigator
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:32 pm

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 6):
I know this is a bit harsh, but I am honestly surprised an airplane hasn't crashed yet landing at this airport. Those look like some extremely difficult conditions that pilots often face going there and I assume its the design and location of the airport that plays a big factor.

TAP Air Portugal crashed a Boeing 727-200 at Madeira in an overrun accident before the runway was extended. Unfortunately I think everyone onboard was killed. There has also been a Caravelle accident, but I dont recall the circumstances.
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Navigator
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:37 pm

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 2):
From then on (while remaining vigilant) the correct procedure would have been to go on and land.

You can not determine that without having the information the pilots had. There is no such thing as "the correct procedure" in gusting winds provided approved wind velocities are not exceeded. The Captain makes the decisions depending on the circumstances and the rules and regulations applicable.
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DocLightning
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:44 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 8):
Unfortunately I think everyone onboard was killed.

There were 164 aboard and 131 died. (1)

(1)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAP_Portugal_Flight_425

Quoting Navigator (Reply 9):
You can not determine that without having the information the pilots had. There is no such thing as "the correct procedure" in gusting winds provided approved wind velocities are not exceeded. The Captain makes the decisions depending on the circumstances and the rules and regulations applicable.

I've seen other aircraft go around when there was a big roll at higher altitude, but this pilot managed to regain level flight and proceeded to land. I am not a pilot and I do not know why (s)he did (or why the other pilots went around).
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ScottishDavie
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:59 am

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 5):
Looks like it may be a video by samuel passos. He has a great collections of the action at Madeira. I've been watching his stuff for a long time. http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZJJSfojvkz4acPF1yTon4g

The video actually says it's by Flavio Silvia but although I can't make out the registration I'm pretty sure this video by Samuel Passos is of the same aircraft:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfGVkaDVu34

[Edited 2015-11-27 17:01:17]
 
Viscount724
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:07 am

Quoting Navigator (Reply 8):
TAP Air Portugal crashed a Boeing 727-200 at Madeira in an overrun accident before the runway was extended. Unfortunately I think everyone onboard was killed. There has also been a Caravelle accident, but I dont recall the circumstances.

Summaries of those 2 accidents (coincidentally only a month apart in 1977), plus another Caravelle with fatalities and a 738 with no fatalities but substantial damage:
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19730305-3
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19771119-1
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19771218-1
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20140217-2
 
JAAlbert
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:12 am

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 5):
Looks like it may be a video by samuel passos.

It is indeed a video from Samuel Passos - and the clip on ABC news was lifted from this video by Passos - see about 5 minutes in.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZJJSfojvkz4acPF1yTon4g

The caption accompanying the video states it was taken a year ago - I guess ABC World News Tonight ran out of current news items to publish!
 
flightsimer
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:42 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 13):

No it was a video by flavio passos

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bHEG6b91dG8
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JoeCanuck
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:47 am

Good approach and landing. He had that one bad gust, got the plane stabilized and landed on the centerline wings level.

Can't ask for more than that.
What the...?
 
nitepilot79
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:29 am

Found these. The second link gives more of an overhead visual of the TAP 727 crash:

http://www.madeiraislandnews.com/201...9th-november-1977-plane-crash.html

http://rubenftas.blogspot.pt/2013/11...-portugal-425-sacadura-cabral.html

R.I.P.

[Edited 2015-11-27 20:34:52]
 
nitepilot79
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:43 am

The second link also contains a ~24 minute documentary on the TAP 727 crash. Portuguese fluency is necessary, though.
 
nitepilot79
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:50 am

Kind of reminds me of the TAM Congonhas crash. R.I.P.
 
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zeke
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:04 am

The terrain that give such a fantastic elevation and vantage point for this video to be captured, would also be responsible for much of the mechanical turbulence.

A steady crosswind by itself does not provide any such interaction on an airframe, what we are seeing is effect of the vorticies being generated as the wind goes over the terrain changing the strength and direction of the wind rapidly.
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:36 pm

I wonder how passengers felt being rocked like.
 
nema
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RE: A Stomach-turning Airliner Approach At Madeira

Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:34 pm

This airport is notorious for the cross winds due to the geographical lie of the area. I understand that pilots cannot fly here without first having had special training relating to this airport approach.
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