sierra3tango
Posts: 586
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:59 pm

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:01 pm

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 41):
I guess also in the Arabian Gulf you could end up in a huge mess when for whatever reason BAH is closed and they choose DMM or some other Saudi airport over DOH.

Exactly that, happened to me on a DXB/BAH sector after a US Contractor carrier left bits of engine scattered down the runway
at BAH. Landed at Dammam, along with all the other GF BAH 08.00ish arrivals (maybe 10) plus an odd EK / RJ etc diversions.

Personally had a Saudi Visa but there were a lot of very nervous pax on board especially US & Indian citizens. The crew told them
not to worry 'there were arrangements in place'. Quite what didn't come to pass as after an hour we were back to BAH.

The really irritating thing was my purpose of flying to Bahrain was to drive across the causeway to a location
within 30 mins drive of DMM airport ()day trip). Would Saudi immigration let me off the plane - absolutely NO.

Also heard from a Monarch crew of a flight going (from memory) Phuket / Bahrain / Gatwick which diverted into Riyadh with
a medical emergency. Result hundreds of holiday makers in flip flops, skinny tops, hot pants etc (which is not the
recommended garb for Saudi) wondering around international departures at Riyadh.

Had a sort of the same sort problem landing at Islamabad in 1999 on a GF flight out of AUH. Apparently we were told to divert,
India wouldn't take us so we were given an alternate of Muscat, which was a non starter (too far). Eventually we landed,
sat on the plane for maybe 2 hours & then disembarked; to be told all Visas had been cancelled & all non
Pakistani pax should wait in the 'lounge'. It eventually became clear that there had been a military coup so as I
was going to visit the Pakistan Navy my visa was suddenly revalidated. Not quite sure what happened to the others
though, yet again more worries faces.
 
jc2354
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 9:56 am

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:17 pm

Quoting AnsettB727 (Reply 43):
ended up spending 20 hours at the airport

Could this have included a crew rest issue, as well? I'm surprised that BA, being an EU carrier, could have left you in the airport. I know EU airline passenger rights are among the most strict, especially compared to those of US airlines.
If not now, then when?
 
KFLLCFII
Posts: 3517
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:08 am

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:32 pm

Quoting nonrevman (Reply 5):
I would also be curious to know what would happen if your domestic flight did suddenly become international. It seems like Alaska to the lower 48 or even a US to Puerto Rico flight could possibly produce an international diversion. Some US to Hawaii flights could also fly over Mexico. It would be fair to assume that a large part of the passenger load would not be traveling with a passport.

Sure, and on the Alaska run, there's a good chance that many have firearms legally checked...
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
LGAviation
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:14 am

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 51):

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Sure, EU law requires the carrier to provide you with suitable accommodation, BUT it can't force a carrier to arrange for your admission into any country. If Australians simply are denied visa-free access, what is BA supposed to do? Bribe the local official. Also, sometimes within the EU, connecting passengers can't get in that's one of the reasons why some airports might offer transit hotels.
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UALWN
Posts: 2186
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:27 pm

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:57 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 23):
The big exception to that rule seems to be Spain. I have never boarded a flight from Spain to a Schengen destination without being asked to produce ID, regardless of the airline.

Indeed. I have always had to show my id when boarding in BCN, regardless of the airline.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 34):
Nothing weird about that, Schengen citizens/residents are absolutely free to roam the Schengen area as they please.

One thing is to roam the Schengen area, another is to board a plane. Everybody in the US is free to roam the 50 states without showing id, except it they board a commercial plane. Then they have to show a valid id. This is how it works in Spain too, and that's the reason why I find it weird when my id is not checked in some other Schengen airports.
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/350/380
 
KirkSeattle
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:32 am

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:12 pm

I'm surprised no one brought up this incident:

US Airliner Makes Emergency Landing At Tehran (by JoKeR Jun 19 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Cheers,
KirkSeattle
 
LGAviation
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:14 am

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:17 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 54):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 34):
Nothing weird about that, Schengen citizens/residents are absolutely free to roam the Schengen area as they please.

One thing is to roam the Schengen area, another is to board a plane. Everybody in the US is free to roam the 50 states without showing id, except it they board a commercial plane. Then they have to show a valid id. This is how it works in Spain too, and that's the reason why I find it weird when my id is not checked in some other Schengen airports.

In Germany it's pretty much the same attitude as with boarding a train and you also don't need an id to board one of our high speed trains.
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KirkSeattle
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:32 am

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:25 pm

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 56):
In Germany it's pretty much the same attitude as with boarding a train and you also don't need an id to board one of our high speed trains.

In 2011, a buddy of mine and I took a bus from Prague to Berlin. The bus pulled over after entering Germany and police entered the bus to check everyone's ID. Is that normal?
 
LGAviation
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:14 am

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:32 pm

Quoting KirkSeattle (Reply 57):
n 2011, a buddy of mine and I took a bus from Prague to Berlin. The bus pulled over after entering Germany and police entered the bus to check everyone's ID. Is that normal?

Yes it is, experienced that myself, usually only Czech and Dutch border and busses only. Particularly 'youth tours' are prone to be selected for these random checks. But that has nothing to do with a general requirement to have a valid ID for long-distance busses. In Germany, ID checks occur on a minimal scale when compared to other countries (i.e. US) and there is virtually no instance where they are done for domestic travel. The presumption is however that bus passengers crossing these borders are more likely to import certain goods that are widely available in CZ or NL.
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UALWN
Posts: 2186
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:27 pm

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:48 pm

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 56):
In Germany it's pretty much the same attitude as with boarding a train and you also don't need an id to board one of our high speed trains.

It's the same in Spain's AVE: no id checks.
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PanHAM
Posts: 9731
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:48 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 54):
One thing is to roam the Schengen area, another is to board a plane. Everybody in the US is free to roam the 50 states without showing id, except it they board a commercial plane. Then they have to show a valid id. This is how it works in Spain too, and that's the reason why I find it weird when my id is not checked in some other Schengen airports.

I spoke about Germany and it is really so that, in normal times, you do not have to Show an ID when borading a flight in Germany heading to a Destination in the Schengen Zone. If you read my contributions carefully you will find that you may have to Show an ID on the return flight to Germany. happened to me on borading in LIS for intance where the Boarding pass and ID was checked by a Portuguese border polie officer.

What you have to Show in the US is a different Story, sometimes US citizens are less free than EU citizens. But it is Kind of funny that, in the Country of faked identities, thought prevails that showing an ID can make flying safer. It certainly does not, when the ID Card or Drivers license does not verify that John Doe really was Born as John Doe.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
UALWN
Posts: 2186
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:27 pm

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:04 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 60):
I spoke about Germany

I know. And I spoke about Spain.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 60):
If you read my contributions carefully

I did.
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/350/380
 
LGAviation
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:14 am

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:07 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 61):

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 60):
I spoke about Germany

I know. And I spoke about Spain.

Speaking about the Schengen Area, let's agree that it makes sense to carry your ID (whether it is some folded paper from Italy or a biometric passport from Finland) and ID checks might happen but in contrast to the US, you're not guaranteed to run into one
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bourbon
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:35 pm

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:57 am

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 49):

You use all the Emergency Kits (hazmat/may contain narcotics and are embargoed at the airport/country the plane is at) or deplete the Defib batteries (lithium ion batteries - hazmat) and/or deplete all over the portable O2 bottles your're toast.

Most likely in that scenario you have to fly in a rescue aircraft with a rescue crew (ideal) and if that is done quick enough you can get the original crew to fly the maintenance ferry back to base. If you can only fly in the crew... they won't be any good if you can't dispatch the aircraft with a legal MEL. I haven't looked at all... but if the airport cannot handle widebody aircraft to offload the LD containers from one plane to another it's a waste to fly in a new plane to continue on with the passengers and flying in a spare crew and aircraft into the diversion airport, then robbing the rescue ship of the depleted items may not be legal. Once you rob off the diverted aircraft it then comes AOG since you robbed parts off of it.

Example... you have a plane with the observer seat MEL'd due to a broken seat belt, the plane can fly.

You rob a seat belt from an aircraft ...you cannot MEL that observer seat .... even though in both scenarios the seat cannot be used.

Also... Fleet type... you're not going to dispatch a rescue ship to pickup the passengers and continue onto the original destination if your rescue aircraft cannot be handled at the arrival destination.

Kind of extreme scenarios for only being 3 hours away... but not having a spare crew can be a driving factor too.

20 hour delay sounds like the crew had to go to a hotel and get rest while some spare parts for the medkit and/or defib kit to Kiev.
 
AADC10
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:40 am

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:29 pm

I was on a flight from China to the USA on 9/11/01 and was diverted to Canada. I have a US passport, so I did not need a visa but there were a number of Chinese passport holders and probably some of other nationalities that needed visas. Canadian frontier control issued visas to the Chinese, apparently rather quickly considering many times the normal number of overseas passengers arrived at once, then sent them off to hotels. The Canadians seemed to be more concerned about mad cow disease than anything else.

It turned out to be much easier to arrive than to depart. The airline gave me a hotel, then I had to hunt for my bags as the baggage area was overloaded. I went through passport control and to a cab about 5 hours after landing. After waiting a few days for flights to resume, I spent a whole day at the airport but the flight did not depart. The second day I got on the flight after about 10 hours at the airport. They took away my safety razors and a 1.5" travel size nail clipper from my checked baggage, as if there was a danger that a passenger would break into the hold and attack with a Gillette disposable and a fingernail cutter. A fork is more dangerous. I noticed they took the FA's aerosol cans, which they are normally allowed to carry.
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:46 pm

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 64):

Are you really surprised that there was heightened security in the days following 9/11?
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
RetiredWeasel
Posts: 742
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:16 pm

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:58 pm

Quoting KirkSeattle (Reply 55):

I'm surprised no one brought up this incident:

Somebody did. Read all the replies especially #45
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4042
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:06 pm

I read a story a few years ago about the opposite. A man booked a ticket to Sidney, MT thinking it was Sydney, Australia. He didn't seem to notice his flight to Sydney was a turboprop.

Found the story



http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16389973/n...tralia-bound-tourist-ends-montana/
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
Kempa
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Unintentional International Passengers

Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:10 pm

There was a Kish Air 707 on an internal Iran flight that was hijacked by a flight attendant and landed in Israel in 1995. The hijacker was arrested, passengers disembarked and were fed. They stayed in a military terminal overnight and departed the next day after the plane was refueled.

http://articles.latimes.com/1995-09-...0/news/mn-48004_1_flight-attendant

In 2014, a Turkish Airlines flight from Turkey to India with 20 Israelis on board made an emergency landing in Iran. The passengers did not have to disembark. A non-Israeli passenger was removed for medical treatment, and the flight continued on to India.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/flight-...ng-in-iran-with-israelis-on-board/

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