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Grisee08
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I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:16 am

I know they were harder to clean, but I remember the days when United and United Express has cloth seats on the CRJ-200. It was a little more comfortable to me then. The leather seems less homely. One of my last mainline flights was on N38446, and it had the Continental seats still. By now, I am sure it has the leather signature seats and no DirecTV anymore. This post leans more towards the cloth CRJ seats though. And this might seem like I'm nuts, but it seems like the cloth seats caused the interior to be a little quieter.. As if they absorbed the sound waves and vibrations a little more.
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rugger
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:14 am

You are probably right about the cloth seats absorbing some of the aircraft noise. Fabric is more porous than leather and the sound waves just pass through the fabric down to where it is absorbed into the foam material more readily. The airlines like leather because they not only last longer than fabric does, but they are easier to clean too. And of course, there is the image of leather being more "upscale" than fabric.

I don't like the leather seats because you slide all over them. I feel like I am constantly sliding down the seat to the floor. Plus in the summer, you sweat more where you contact the seats too.
 
dampfnudel
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:02 am

I miss fabric seats sometimes, but I definitely understand why airlines stopped using them, at least the ones I fly.
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HPRamper
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:10 am

Oh, I completely concur. Leather is a lot easier to clean, but I always found the cloth much more comfortable. It always irritated me that F was all leather, on every airline, seemingly as a status thing and nothing else.
 
Egerton
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:21 am

I seriously dislike leather seats, for the reasons given above. I took delivery of a new 2 seater Jag with leather seats, there was no alternative option. So I got the dealer to take out the leather from that part of the driver's seat where my backside resides, and he replaced it with cloth. I still hated the leather on the seatback. Leather is at its best when worn by a animal.
 
masi1157
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:45 am

Quoting Rugger (Reply 1):
You are probably right about the cloth seats absorbing some of the aircraft noise.

He is not only "probabaly right", he is absolutely right. Thw foam inside the fabric seats may not be very good acoustic absorbers, but it does absorb at least a bit while leather seats absorb virtually nothing at all. In the narrow cabin of a CRJ the noise difference might quite well be a few dB(A).


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LGAviation
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:53 am

I seriously dislike cloth seats because they give you this feeling of flying in some sort of living museum artifact and also for the taller guys of us, even though it might not be based on any facts, I feel as if leg space is somehow larger with these slimline leather seats (although they might also be arranged closer together)
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RJNUT
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:18 pm

...and the cloth seats absorbed all gaseous emissions whereas with leather they skip right over the [email protected]
 
trex8
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:24 pm

Is the leather really leather?? On most cars only the seating surface is real leather, the sides, back etc is fake leather, is that also true for aircraft seats??
 
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lightsaber
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:49 pm

I strongly prefer leather. I could smell what was absorbed into those cloth seats.

Quoting trex8 (Reply 8):

Is the leather really leather?? On most cars only the seating surface is real leather, the sides, back etc is fake leather, is that also true for aircraft seats??

Good question, I don't know. I do know I had a car with all fake leather that had nicer leather than 80% of the cars out there and was always getting compliments on my leather seats. I have a newer car with 'real leather' that I wish was that better fake leather. Cest la vie.

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 6):
I feel as if leg space is somehow larger with these slimline leather seats (although they might also be arranged closer together)

Slimline improves leg space at the cost of butt padding. The seat cover material has nothing to do with the ergonomics. But I still prefer leather/pleather/vinyl to cloth. I have found those slimline seats are less than perfect cross country. They seem optimal for sub 4 hour flights.

Lightsaber
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Sparrow787
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:50 pm

Some, or maybe most of the AA 738 fleet still uses cloth like seats, I found it strange that they have not changed the fabric.
 
bobnwa
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:12 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 8):
Is the leather really leather?? On most cars only the seating surface is real leather, the sides, back etc is fake leather, is that also true for aircraft seats??

If you define leather as an animals skin, the neither car seats or airline seats are leather.
 
ikramerica
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:22 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 11):

It's probably bonded leather, which is kind of like the chicken nugget of the leather business.
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trex8
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:24 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 11):
If you define leather as an animals skin, the neither car seats or airline seats are leather.

On "luxury" cars like a Rolls, the material is real animal leather. But yes even MB, BMW etc are going to more use of synthetic leather on most of their cars. On more proletariat cars even the sides etc are just vinyl and not even "artificial " leather.
 
Okie
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:06 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
I strongly prefer leather. I could smell what was absorbed into those cloth seats.

        
I boarded a flight with cloth seats that someone on the inbound flight had obviously had an event in the center seat of my row.
I could smell the odor three rows before I arrived at my row. I hesitantly slid to my normal window seat when I accidentally put my hand on the offending seat.
It was soaking wet with left over upchuck and the odor could gag a maggot.
I removed myself carefully and ask the FA for a different seat.

No telling what grows in those cloth seats. Somewhere on down the line as the seat dried somebody ended up having to sit in that seat.
At least with a faux or leather seat you get to see what is on it before you sit.

Okie
 
roseflyer
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:12 pm

For united one of the top reasons for delays under 15 minutes was replacing soiled or wet seat cushions. It is far more common than you would think. The cleaners will not always notice wet cloth seats but almost always will notice or be able to clean leather. Usually the new passenger is the one to notice the wet fabric seat since the culprit for soiling it usually absconds without telling anyone since they are humiliated or a child. Not only do you have an angry new passenger but now they are rushing to get a new seat cushion.
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airbazar
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:26 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 3):
Oh, I completely concur. Leather is a lot easier to clean, but I always found the cloth much more comfortable

  
I hate leather seats, be in an airplane or a car. They are hot, make my back and butt sweaty, and they're slippery too.
 
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Goose
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:41 pm

I work for an airline that started out with all-cloth seats in our 737-200s, and I honestly don't miss them at all; not even the nostalgia of it.

Yes, the leather can be hot and uncomfortable on a longer haul - but at least they don't smell like thousands of stale farts. Ever cracked the door on a plane that's sat on the ramp in the summer for a few hours, without air conditioning? There's a good reason nobody sells "old plane smell" car fresheners.  
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TZTriStar500
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:49 pm

Quoting trex8 (Reply 13):
Quoting bobnwa (Reply 11):
If you define leather as an animals skin, the neither car seats or airline seats are leather.

This is not true. Unless the airline is specifying an eleather or other synthetic or manufactured product, the leather is real animal hides.
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holzmann
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:50 pm

I've flown Lufthansa PE a few times now. It's practically brand new, and I've cringed on my last two TATL flights. The seats are cloth. On one recent flight, a toddler kicked over a guy's beer and I watched from a row back as the beer poured into, and subsequently absorbed into, the seat. Even more sad was the return flight when an elderly gentleman, probably 90-95 years-old and quite obviously distressed by flying, lost control of his bowels into the seat in front of me. The stench was unbelievable. The passengers in the seats his immediate right and left (across the aisle) were moved back into regular Economy. I was not directly behind him but am surprised when I look back on it that they didn't offer to move me.

Yeah, cloth is great! Absorbs everything. Wait a little bit when the surface looks dry and it's ready to go for the next unsuspecting passenger!

Blech!
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dc9super80
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:46 pm

Scandinavian Airlines is an all cloth seat Airline and i have always preferred these kind of seats and found them mighty comfy, but reading some of the
stories above, now i'm not so sure   
 
Skydrol
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:16 am

Quoting holzmann (Reply 19):
Yeah, cloth is great! Absorbs everything. Wait a little bit when the surface looks dry and it's ready to go for the next unsuspecting passenger!

Another benefit to cloth seats... you don't need to get up to pee if there's turbulence, since you are sitting on a porous sponge.





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BA0197
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:19 am

I think it all comes down to flight times- for shorter flights, leather tends to be more comfertable for me than cloth, along with the fact that it is much cleaner. On longhaul flights, particularly ones where I'd like to sleep, cloth is best. BA have that nailed IMHO with leather for CE/ET and cloth for WT/WT+/CW/CWLCY/F.
 
iflycanadian
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:06 am

I also prefer the cloth seats because I found them to be warmer. I've been on some chilly flights, especially on the crj200
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1337Delta764
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:31 am

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 18):
Unless the airline is specifying an eleather or other synthetic or manufactured product, the leather is real animal hides.

Note that E-Leather isn't the same as bonded leather. E-Leather is actually composition leather, which uses high pressure water jets to create a leather-like fabric out of leather fibers, and does not contain any chemicals. This is what is currently used by DL and WN.

Bonded leather, on the other hand, uses chemicals to glue leather fibers together. Not sure if bonded leather is used by any airline, since I think bonded leather is less durable than real leather or leather-like fabrics.
 
Max Q
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:04 am

Quoting Egerton (Reply 4):
Leather is at its best when worn by a animal.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 16):
hate leather seats, be in an airplane or a car. They are hot, make my back and butt sweaty, and they're slippery too.

Couldn't agree more.
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AirbusA6
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:43 pm

Do airlines get complaints from Vegetarians/Vegans or Hindus about leather seats?

Airlines go out of their way to cater for all allergies and religions when it comes to food options, but then make people sit on leather!
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bobnwa
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:04 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 18):
This is not true. Unless the airline is specifying an eleather or other synthetic or manufactured product, the leather is real animal hides.

I stand by my statement, Airlines and auto manufactures to not use animal hides as seat coverings . what they do use is a manufactured
surface using many different composed products including ground up animal hides.
 
2175301
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:39 pm

There are a vast array in qualities of leather out there; and cheap leather feels and looks much different than really good high quality leather.

I had some custom built leather furniture built for my living room due to allergy issues (and the way modern furniture is built). Manufactured leather would have cost me about $300. Cheap real leather about $500. I have $4000 leather (the best of the best). People rave about how good it feels compared to other leather furniture. It also will last for generations if properly cared for.

Old story, you get what you pay for...

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TZTriStar500
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:42 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 27):
I stand by my statement, Airlines and auto manufactures to not use animal hides as seat coverings . what they do use is a manufactured
surface using many different composed products including ground up animal hides.

I will not speak about the auto manufacturers, but you are simply incorrect about aircraft leather. There are several manufactured or engineering products out there including eleather that are not genuine hides as you state. However, when an airline or aircraft owner specifies leather, that's exactly what they are getting, actual tanned and textured bull hides.

I have worked at several airlines and been involved in interior reconfigurations/refurbishments along with the VVIP completion business. I have most recently been involved in acquiring leather for the recovering of seats for a fleet of aircraft being acquired by a large North American airline that I will not mention, but the leather came from Aeristo and is certified 100% Bovine of south German and Brazilian bull hides. This is not the exception and all one needs to do is research some of the major aviation leather suppliers such as Spectra Interior Products, Perrone, OmnAvia, Aeristo, etc. to see their lines of animal hide materials.
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FlyBoy84
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:48 pm

You do, in fact, slide all over with the leather seats!

OTOH, fabric seats seem to become threadbare making the cabin look old, unkempt.
 
CRJ900
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:44 pm

Quoting Goose (Reply 17):
Yes, the leather can be hot and uncomfortable on a longer haul - but at least they don't smell like thousands of stale farts

Ain't that the truth! We used to have cloth seats on most of our aircraft, and when crossing seat belts between flights you could smell a fart when leaning over quite a few seats. I pity those that have cabin cleaning as a full-time job, they must be high from sniffing farts all day, poor people...

Leather is soo much easier to clean and saves us a lot of time.
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bobnwa
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 29):
I will not speak about the auto manufacturers, but you are simply incorrect about aircraft leather. There are several manufactured or engineering products out there including eleather that are not genuine hides as you state. However, when an airline or aircraft owner specifies leather, that's exactly what they are getting, actual tanned and textured bull hides.

I have worked at several airlines and been involved in interior reconfigurations/refurbishments along with the VVIP completion business. I have most recently been involved in acquiring leather for the recovering of seats for a fleet of aircraft being acquired by a large North American airline that I will not mention, but the leather came from Aeristo and is certified 100% Bovine of south German and Brazilian bull hides. This is not the exception and all one needs to do is research some of the major aviation leather suppliers such as Spectra Interior Products, Perrone, OmnAvia, Aeristo, etc. to see their lines of animal hide materials.

You obviously have more knowledge than I do about airline leather seats, so I bow to your expertness. I will confine my remarks to automobile seats.
 
N1120A
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
Slimline improves leg space at the cost of butt padding.

And leg padding. The way it cuts into my hamstrings is probably my biggest complaint about those torture seats.
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vatveng
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:36 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
Slimline improves leg space at the cost of butt padding.

This is something I just don't get. Slimline seats are all about squeezing in another row (or four) of seats. The seat back cushion has to be thin for that purpose, but the butt cushion doesn't need to be a church pew. It can be any thickness without affecting the distance between seat-backs. So why are the butt cushions on slimline seats so thin?

Back on topic, I agree that cloth seats get really gross after a few flights but they are a lot more comfortable than leather/pleather/vinyl, whether in a car, a bus, a train, a plane, or even a cube farm.
 
2175301
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:23 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 32):
You obviously have more knowledge than I do about airline leather seats, so I bow to your expertness. I will confine my remarks to automobile seats.

Something to remember on common auto seat leather: It has to be treated to withstand direct sunshine - which is not good for real leather.

The reality is that on automotive and almost all leathers you are not sitting on or against the leather. You are sitting on or against a coating on the leather. That coating protects the leather from Sunshine (UV) and modest amounts of water or spills.

Real uncoated/unprotected leather feels much different; but, has a much shorter life in automotive seats and even in airplane usage. As far as I can tell all automotive and standard airplane leather is protected with a coating (2 of the 3 Reply 29 sites mention coatings or protections; and the third one mentions "price sensitive and durable" for its best leather - code words for coated or protected).

I assure you that take away the coatings and applied protectants and the leather feels different (it is clearly not as slippery). That is what I did for my living room furniture and then I focused on the best of the best disregarded the cost of the leather and paid thousands extra for what I got over even normal "high quality" furniture leather. I have to keep it out of sunlight, cannot use many of the modern light bulbs (they emit a lot of UV) if I am to make it last, and have to clean up any spill pronto. I have to take care of the leather. On the other hand, people who visit rave about how good it feels....

I just don't see real uncoated high quality leather being used in commercial aircraft. Perhaps in an opulent private business jet.

Anyway, I suspect if the kind of leather I have in my living room was installed - you would not be complaining about how it slides and feels...

Have a great day,
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:08 pm

The millions of farts, (and maybe worse), entombed in airline cloth seats make leather the winner any day of the week.
What the...?
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:23 am

Quoting vatveng (Reply 34):
This is something I just don't get. Slimline seats are all about squeezing in another row (or four) of seats. The seat back cushion has to be thin for that purpose, but the butt cushion doesn't need to be a church pew. It can be any thickness without affecting the distance between seat-backs. So why are the butt cushions on slimline seats so thin?

Slimlines are a bit of a misnomer. Its not just a slimmer backrest, but the entire seat is reduced in weight with use of more monolithic and less parts. This also includes the cushioning.

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 35):
I just don't see real uncoated high quality leather being used in commercial aircraft. Perhaps in an opulent private business jet.

You would be correct here. Uncoated leather would never pass flammability requirements so some coating is required though there is differences between finish qualities for a bizjet versus an airline seat.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:11 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
And leg padding. The way it cuts into my hamstrings is probably my biggest complaint about those torture seats.

I agree. One thing I don't like about the LH A380 is how skimpy the padding on the seat cushion is. I don't mind the decrease in the seat back cushioning. I had back surgery almost 15 years ago, and it is torture to have to sit on hard seats for 9+ hours IAH-FRA or 11+ hours FRA-IAH. Considering adding more cushioning to the seat cushion does not affect either the seat width or seat pitch, I wish they would put more cushioning in their seats, especially in their long haul aircraft.

[Edited 2015-12-03 17:12:15]
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: I Miss Cloth Seats

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:53 am

Quoting Grisee08 (Thread starter):
I Miss Cloth Seats

I certainly don't. Have a very sensitive sense of smell, and good lord did the cloth seats STINK!
The odors they absorbed were just atrocious. Couldn't have gotten rid of them quickly enough.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

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