fun2fly
Posts: 1497
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:39 pm

Quoting LifetimeGS (Reply 49):

I do not understand why they keep the service center open. I often walk by and see four agents working with no customers. Strangest de-hubbing I've ever seen.

With all the ORD & EWR connections, you probably need 6 people just to help out a few days a week in winter.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 48):
I got a reliable tip that UA is retaining Gates C-10 and 14-29

How many gates does that leave up for grabs? I know they closed C1/C2 a long time ago and C4 is Jetblue...3/5/6/7/8/9 open? If they could fix the RJ issue, DL could move. It would be perfect for WN, but they just added that gate in B.
 
cle757
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RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:05 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 48):

Supposedly UA gave up the low numbered gates partly because they can't handle RJs. That would seem to rule out Delta or American taking over, since both have a significant number of RJ flights still in their schedules. Spirit and Frontier, on the other hand, would become possibilities.

All the lower gates can handle RJ's, CO used to put RJ's on C1,C2,C7 and C11 back in the day.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
masseybrown
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:44 am

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 50):
How many gates does that leave up for grabs? I know they closed C1/C2 a long time ago and C4 is Jetblue...3/5/6/7/8/9 open? If they could fix the RJ issue, DL could move.

Plus C-11. I learned that C-6 is being refurbished by CLE itself as a common use gate, obviously intended to benefit JetBlue, should they ever have 2 planes on the ground at once.

On the RJ issue, I can't address that; I'm just repeating what I was told. Aren't CRJs enough different to be a special problem?

[Edited 2015-12-15 20:46:24]
 
greenair727
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RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:58 pm

In the new/current rehab of the departure lobby, are there any common-use counters, that is space that is not dedicated to a specific airline?
 
masseybrown
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:22 pm

From the airport website: As of 12/15/15 the Exterior work will move to the south end of the ticketing level. The doors on the south end will be closed to passenger traffic. Interior work is currently at the center of ticketing and just north of the center. On Baggage Claim, the south end doors will also be closed off to passenger traffic. The south escalator and elevators will be closed down during construction. These changes will remain in effect until the project is completed in June 2016.

June now ... I guess this means the project has already slipped a month ... and everybody knows how those final punch list items drag on and on.
 
masseybrown
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:42 pm

Busy times for the freighters: 6 widebodies and 4 757s on Monday night/Tuesday morning.
 
lakeeffect
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:40 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 54):
project has already slipped a month ... and everybody knows how those final punch list items drag on and on.

I noticed that too and they've only got 2 months of extra time to play with, with a "hard deadline" of being finished in early July before the convention.

I'm curious to see what F9 does with their schedule extension at CLE as their booking window only goes to early April right now. Looking at the T100 tables for last June (latest month available) CLE-SEA appeared to be averaging over 160 passengers per flight on Frontier, the highest of any flight at CLE on any airline. So I would expect this route to come back, Atlanta on the other hand seems questionable. With those kind of numbers to SEA, I'm really surprised that AS or DL hasn't tried to come in, especially with a hub at the other end.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1307
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:24 pm

Quoting lakeeffect:
Looking at the T100 tables for last June (latest month available) CLE-SEA appeared to be averaging over 160 passengers per flight on Frontier, the highest of any flight at CLE on any airline.

"the highest of any flight at CLE on any airline" -- to what can we attribute this? Certainly there are cities with higher daily O&D for CLE than SEA, such as LGA or LAX. Is it because there is only flight a day and its not flown on an RJ? Is there some strong business or other connection between CLE and SEA?
 
N766UA
Posts: 8242
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:48 am

 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:47 pm

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 10):

Being a Part 135 carrier Ultimate is limited to 30 seats. So they will remove 7 sests seats from the E135s. It also keeps the airports they serve from having to be Part 139 certified. Glad to see they are growing.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
lakeeffect
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:37 pm

From the T-100 tables here are some approximate load factors for June at CLE (departing flights) for the LCC and ULCC airlines:

Frontier:
87.3 ATL
87.5 LAS
89.9 RDU
90.8 TPA
93.6 SEA
93.9 MCO
95.1 RSW
96.4 DEN

Spirit:
61.6 BOS
69.6 ATL
78.2 MYR
84.0 MCO
86.1 LAS
89.7 FLL
93.3 DFW
93.6 LAX

JetBlue:
89.6 BOS
92.6 FLL

Southwest:
70.2 BWI
76.4 BNA
76.7 MDW
96.6 PHX
97.2 LAS

Frontier seemed to do quite well filling up their planes. RDU did surprisingly well for F9. As a comparison DL was only able to muster a 36.5 LF to RDU from CLE.

I'm not surprised that NK struggled to BOS up against UA and B6. Clearly there's strong demand for ULCC service to LAX from CLE.

Southwest filled up planes to PHX and LAS in the heat of the summer. AA/US had a 82.0 LF to PHX from CLE in June. I wonder if WN really needs all that frequency to MDW and BWI? I'd much rather see them drop a MDW flight in favor of MCI or HOU. Seeing how popular SEA is for F9 and LAX is for NK, I'd like to see WN consider SAN-CLE at some point, even if on a seasonal basis.
 
ATLFlyer323
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:01 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:56 am

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 60):
Frontier seemed to do quite well filling up their planes. RDU did surprisingly well for F9. As a comparison DL was only able to muster a 36.5 LF to RDU from CLE.

It would be interesting to compare their average fare's to see how much Delta is bringing in $$ wise vs Frontier. I wonder if DL has any business contracts that make this flight worth it?

-ATLFlyer323
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:05 pm

From mid-day Monday to mid-day Tuesday, CLE saw eleven freighters: 6 MD11/A306 and 5 757s. I believe this is a record. A reflection of the economy or just everybody shopping online?
 
greenair727
Posts: 1307
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:34 pm

^Great to see such freight traffic in Cleveland.


Some aspects of NextGen coming to CLE (and presumably BKL as well?):

http://fox8.com/2015/12/21/cleveland...e-for-new-cutting-edge-technology/
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 63):
Some aspects of NextGen coming to CLE

Interesting that the FAA Metroplex is called Cleveland-Detroit, with the map dot on the Cleveland end. I'd heard rumblings that the FAA was trying to centralize its employment into 'hubs'. Maybe Oberlin and the CLE Tracon are winners.
 
oflanigan
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:22 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:15 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 64):

Cleveland was included originally because of the UA Hub and its proximity to DTW. A good amount of traffic transitions just above CLE destined to DTW, so OAPM or the Metroplex initiative needed to include CLE. Metroplex issues probably hurt CLE slightly more now since the Hub no longer exists, favoring better procedures for DTW.

Facility consolidations or collocations into "hubs" as you described are separate from Nextgen and Metroplex.
 
N766UA
Posts: 8242
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:02 am

Quoting oflanigan (Reply 65):

They've been talking about facility consolidation for 30 years. Thus far it's only happened in what, 5 or 6 places? And all Tracons. At most you might see MFD and YNG approach come to Cleveland, especially with the regular downgrading of CLE as traffic falls.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:38 pm

Quoting oflanigan (Reply 65):
Facility consolidations or collocations into "hubs" as you described are separate from Nextgen and Metroplex.

What I mean was that the FAA has a much larger number of employees in the CLE area, more to build on than in DTW. There was a position paper floating around DC saying describing the difficulty of hiring controllers in so many locations; I don't know how significantly that paper has influenced FAA plans for more consolidation. DC is full of efficiency studies that never go anywhere.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1307
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:48 pm

Quoting oflanigan:
Cleveland was included originally because of the UA Hub and its proximity to DTW. A good amount of traffic transitions just above CLE destined to DTW, so OAPM or the Metroplex initiative needed to include CLE. Metroplex issues probably hurt CLE slightly more now since the Hub no longer exists, favoring better procedures for DTW.

This doesn't hurt CLE, but the opposite, as it makes it a more efficient airport/region to get into. No more lining up so far out and flying by waypoints. Also, as DTW is far enough away, I don't think procedures or operational priorities for either will impact the other.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:27 pm

Based on announced schedules, AA will operate 34 CLE flights most days this summer. Maybe they'll add a LAX in June - their missing international hub. UA will probably operate some number less than 50. Parity is getting closer.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1497
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:56 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 69):
UA will probably operate some number less than 50.

I thought the number of flights might stay similar in the low 70's as they are running 4x ERJ's to IAH in March the week before Easter...amazing decline.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1219
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:40 pm

Wow the decline of seats to IAH is striking, really striking. I suspect a lot of that traffic now makes its way through DEN instead. Cleveland has more seats to Denver on UA than most cities east of the Mississippi.

Even if AA's frequencies are approaching UA's, they are practically 100% regional jets.

Delta has only mainline to ATL, AA to CLT (but not always) and DFW, it's really quite striking too how those two major US airlines have so little mainline service to a fairly large metro area-- but welcome to the airline industry 2015. United didn't cut their mainline flying too much after the hub closure.
 
oflanigan
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:22 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:48 pm

Quoting Greenair727 (Reply 68):

As stated before the Metroplex is called Cleveland-Detroit for a reason, because airspace wise they are close and they touch each other. It's not about the two airports but the airspace and procedures that surrounds them as well. That's a lot of commercial airports that are trying to climb and descend all round CLE and DTW. And add Cleveland Center interests to the equation. Metroplex will work to improve this.

DTW is busier and will see more benefit it's just how it works. Cleveland Center and CLE TRACON and adjacent approach controls that provide feed to DTW will still have to have aircraft entering and exiting airspace at negotiated points. Metroplex may increase those points. But the days of not lining up way out for major airports isn't here yet. Flow programs like metering hundreds of miles out will improve efficiency as it enters terminal airspace which is where it needs to be set up to allow efficient operations to the runway.
 
cle757
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:55 pm

I dont know if anyone has notice but UA has vacated gates C3-14.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1497
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:03 am

Quoting cle757 (Reply 73):
I dont know if anyone has notice but UA has vacated gates C3-14.

I'll scope it out in the AM...anyone know the details? Seems like they were trying to meet a deadline like Jan 1 or something since it was pretty quick.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:38 pm

No surprise, I guess. On 4/14 Spirit will drop flights to FLL and RSW, restore flights to BOS and MYR.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1307
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:08 pm

^Restore BOS? I didn't know they served CLE-BOS before. Does this mean we'll have Spirit, B6, and UA on the route? That's a lot of capacity.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:07 pm

Seasonal switch; they did it last fall, they're undoing it this spring. Spirit has posted only flights through May, so maybe they'll come up with something new by summer. I've heard they patched up their spat with CLE airport.

ua.com's schedule still shows CLE-BOS at 5 flights for May and out, but I believe their December reduction to 3 (some days fewer) will hold. Let's see if they cut DCA to 3 once AA starts flying.
 
chrisjake
Posts: 990
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:19 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:41 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 75):
On 4/14 Spirit will drop flights to FLL and RSW,

FLL is year round on Spirit and was in 2015 also. Daily A320.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:25 am

Oops ... it's TPA and RSW that end.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1307
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:17 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown:
I've heard they [Spirit] patched up their spat with CLE airport.

What was the spat over?
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:19 pm

Can't swear to anything, but I heard the airport was witholding some sort of incentive payment that Spirit felt they deserved. At any rate it supposedly got resolved.
 
lakeeffect
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:12 pm

It seems United has consolidated to the end of the C concourse. Any word if/when the lower C gates will be occupied by AA? That would seemingly free up a lot of real estate in the A gates? I'm really curious about what happens with Frontier. Their booking window only goes out to early April, which is an incredibly short window for air travel. Will F9 resume SEA, ATL, RDU, and DEN this year? If not would NK pick up a few routes?
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:45 pm

http://www.airlinereporter.com/2016/...s-will-me3-fly-2016-guessing-game/

This link was posted in the PIT thread by PITrules and includes some interesting CLE data.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:19 pm

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 82):
[Frontier's] booking window only goes out to early April, which is an incredibly short window for air travel. Will F9 resume SEA, ATL, RDU, and DEN this year? If not would NK pick up a few routes?

This is probably complicated by Baldanza's departure from Spirit. People think a Frontier/Spirit merger is now a stronger possibility; I'm hoping not.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1497
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:04 pm

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 82):
It seems United has consolidated to the end of the C concourse. Any word if/when the lower C gates will be occupied by AA? That would seemingly free up a lot of real estate in the A gates? I'm really curious about what happens with Frontier. Their booking window only goes out to early April, which is an incredibly short window for air travel. Will F9 resume SEA, ATL, RDU, and DEN this year? If not would NK pick up a few routes?

Taking a look last night, with SWA's check in nestled between JetBlue and United on south side of the concourse, would it not make more sense for WN to move to C? Then, CLE could mothball the end of terminal B to save some $. Concourse A has to stay open for customs purposes so AA moving does not bring any value to CLE.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:36 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 85):
AA moving does not bring any value to CLE.

On the "other site" people say AA moving to C is a done deal. I'm not really sure why AA wants to do it. A is actually a pretty nice concourse, compared to B and C, although a few more windows at the far end wouldn't hurt.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1219
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:59 pm

Obviously UA wants to reduce their expenses in CLE but I can't think of why anyone else would want to move, UNLESS the airport is trying to free up gate space for Frontier or Spirit. Boy will it be weird if UA and aa are in sane concourse. Unprecedented for Cleveland.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1497
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:00 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 86):
On the "other site" people say AA moving to C is a done deal. I'm not really sure why AA wants to do it. A is actually a pretty nice concourse, compared to B and C, although a few more windows at the far end wouldn't hurt.

What is the advantage for CLE to move AA? They'd only be keeping A open for F9 and NK?

Will WN then have to relocate check in again back to the north side to make room?

It will be interesting to find this one out.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:37 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 88):
What is the advantage for CLE to move AA? They'd only be keeping A open for F9 and NK?

Does anyone know if AA is pushing for the move? I would imagine they would want to consolidate gates (and move away from having to use air stairs at A5) at some point rather than having the opposite ends of the concourse as they do today.
1.4mm and counting...
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:57 pm

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 89):
Does anyone know if AA is pushing for the move? I would imagine they would want to consolidate gates (and move away from having to use air stairs at A5) at some point rather than having the opposite ends of the concourse as they do today.

Indeed. It would seem like the main motivation would be consolidating into one single, unified location - and the gates in question seem like prime real estate, being relatively close to the security checkpoint and all on the side of the concourse facing the runway (so less taxiing). The one time I flew through CLE on AA, I do remember thinking those A gates looked pretty old and run down - and that was almost a decade ago.
 
greenair727
Posts: 1307
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:27 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:33 am

Quoting MasseyBrown:
From mid-day Monday to mid-day Tuesday, CLE saw eleven freighters: 6 MD11/A306 and 5 757s. I believe this is a record. A reflection of the economy or just everybody shopping online?

Certainly a record for Amazon too--which helps explain all the freighters:

"Amazon capped its blockbuster year by reporting what it said was a record-breaking holiday season, shipping 200 million more items through its Prime subscription service, which offers free shipping and a host of other benefits, during the period from Nov. 1 through Dec. 19, compared with last season."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/31/te...its-amazon-and-also-rans.html?_r=0
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:13 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 90):
Indeed. It would seem like the main motivation would be consolidating into one single, unified location - and the gates in question seem like prime real estate, being relatively close to the security checkpoint and all on the side of the concourse facing the runway (so less taxiing). The one time I flew through CLE on AA, I do remember thinking those A gates looked pretty old and run down - and that was almost a decade ago.

I know A3 was replaced with a new jet bridge in the past few years (and quite likely A1 as well), they used to be prime gates back when the A security checkpoint was open all the time however now that they even shut down the exit quite early they may not be as highly desired - I fly through several times a year & typically we have to walk down to b and back to collect baggage from the belt.
1.4mm and counting...
 
lakeeffect
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:25 pm

Here are some selected both ways combined passengers per day O&D for CLE for 2nd quarter 2015:

1194 LAS
969 MCO
843 ORD
777 LAX
658 ATL
639 PHX
631 FLL
561 BOS
557 DFW
524 SFO
517 LGA
488 TPA
455 MDW
434 RSW
431 DEN
363 BWI
362 BNA
357 SEA
350 EWR
325 PHL
302 CLT
287 MSP
263 IAH
261 RDU
224 STL
219 MIA
202 SAN
201 DCA
141 MSY

Feel free to draw your own conclusions. I think with UA's continual trimming of LAX that there would be room for AA or DL to enter. O&D for SEA continues to be strong, it's just a matter of time before AS or DL start this in my opinion.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:08 pm

 
masseybrown
Posts: 5396
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:29 pm

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 93):
201 DCA

Which is deceptive - a huge amount of the BWI traffic is Washington-generated, not Baltimore. I had hoped AA's entry into the CLE-DCA market might lower fares, since old USAirways often would undercut UA's IAD fares. That apparently isn't going to happen; AA has posted fares slightly higher than UA's (both over $1/mile). AA must be counting on hub transit traffic; they're sure not going after the O&D.
 
ncflyer
Posts: 1219
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 7:03 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:07 pm

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 93):
. I think with UA's continual trimming of LAX that there would be room for AA or DL to enter.

?? United has held their capacity pretty steady to LAX since the hub was shut down, I'm not sure what you mean by the "continual trimming of LAX". OK sure, they are only flying one flight per day to LAX midweek during the winter, but there are a lot of empty seats on the nonstop they run in the middle of the week, it's hard to compare winter capacity's to Q2 passenger numbers. I'm frankly very pleased UA hasn't cut back more with Spirit's entry to the route. During the holiday period they ran 2 flights per day every day to LAX, whereas they cut pretty substantially to LGA, BOS, STL, MKE, ORD. . . . .

During the hub days UA ran 4X daily to LAX during the summer, but that won't be happening again without a hub.

Those are great numbers you provided, would be interesting to know how the numbers compare on flights with big reductions in nonstop flying, such as Albany, MCI, YUL, etc. The numbers to DCA are really shocking to me, UA runs 5 flights per day each way, so that means they average 20 people per flight? hmmmmmm. And AA is feeling the need to add capacity?
 
lakeeffect
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:41 pm

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:40 pm

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 96):
?? United has held their capacity pretty steady to LAX since the hub was shut down, I'm not sure what you mean by the "continual trimming of LAX"

I was referring to UA's general trimming of their overall LAX operation over the past few years in addition to their trimming of CLE. In summer of 2014, after UA dehubbed CLE, UA ran 3x daily LAX. That went to 2x daily during winter. During winter 14/15 UA had scheduled 2x daily LAX, but then trimmed it back to 1x daily January-March. Summer of 15 was scheduled to return to 3x daily LAX, but was trimmed to 2x. Currently UA only flies a single daily LAX from CLE, which is scheduled to stay 1x daily until June 9 when it goes back to 2x daily. The problem with UA and LAX (and SFO) is that UA's future schedule is more ambitious than what they will actually fly. They are constantly trimming these routes 3 months out. In the past year I've had 3 nonstop CLE-SFO/LAX flights booked that eventually changed to itineraries with connections because UA dropped the second frequency.

DCA is definitely a head scratcher with UA running 5x daily with such low O&D. I don't think they'll survive with AA entering. Maybe they'll reduce down to 2-3x daily.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:52 am

Frontier's booking window has been extended, and CLE-DEN and CLE-SEA both return mid-April and CLE-RDU/ATL and PHX.

I'm still checking other places.

mariner

[Edited 2016-01-06 19:04:30]
aeternum nauta
 
krod031
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:49 am

RE: What's Going In CLE - Part 12

Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:07 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 98):
Frontier's booking window has been extended, and CLE-DEN and CLE-SEA both return mid-April.

They have also added CLE-PHL/SFO/LAX/PHX/PDX and Returned CLE-RDU. A very nice add for CLE.

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Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos