Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 25328
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:42 pm

As part of Long Beach airports noise ordinance analysis, determination has been made that the airport needs to increase its daily air carrier slot allocation by 8 or 9 additional departures from current 41.

The LGB noise ordinance is basically a maximum noise quota (know as "noise bucket") which uses 1990 activity as the baseline year. As existing activity operates at lower overall total noise values, the difference can me made up with additional movement slot allocations as determined by independent outside party.

Per the recently complete analysis, the airport can allocate the additional slots and remain within the maximum noise bucket.

New slots would be allocated on first come first serve basis or an established rotation system if slot demand exceeds potential new allocation.

Long Beach city document (pdf file)
http://longbeach.legistar.com/View.a...9F1320-C7E7-44B5-917B-B55999FC7D1B

=

This certainly will not be popular with the local community, though the Long Beach City Council really does not have much leeway as it seeks to remain in compliance with the airports noise ordinance.

This new allocation is a surprise too many as previous new slots were always in the one or two count based on the noise bucket.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
carljanderson
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:29 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:22 pm

Since these are temporary slots (can be removed if the noise bucket is exceeded), I wonder how many takers there will be?

On a strictly personal level, I do wonder if DL would try to grab 3 or 4 and make a run at LGB-ATL and market those flights heavily during the period in which they move from T5 to T3/T2 at LAX.  

I don't think that'll happen, however I wonder if they may grab 2 more to allow for more CRJ900's to SLC.
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1943
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting carljanderson (Reply 1):
On a strictly personal level, I do wonder if DL would try to grab 3 or 4 and make a run at LGB-ATL and

..count on it! they seem to want their fingers in every pie! (except the M.E.)
 
FARmd90
Posts: 461
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:04 pm

What is the possibility of jetBlue going after these and adding some more routes?
 
SWADawg
Posts: 709
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:26 pm

I really only see B6 or maybe AA being interested in anymore LGB slots. I don't see there being that much competition for these. Even SNA slots aren't being snatched up as much as they once were.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
B747forever
Posts: 13869
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:44 pm

Quoting carljanderson (Reply 1):
l, I do wonder if DL would try to grab 3 or 4 and make a run at LGB-ATL and market those flights heavily during the period in which they move from T5 to T3/T2 at LAX

Must have missed it, but where has that move at LAX been announced?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26556
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:53 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 5):

Quoting carljanderson (Reply 1):
l, I do wonder if DL would try to grab 3 or 4 and make a run at LGB-ATL and market those flights heavily during the period in which they move from T5 to T3/T2 at LAX

Must have missed it, but where has that move at LAX been announced?

It's not but it's in the works and could be announced early next year. DL to a renovated and presumably TBIT-connected T2/T3 with its partners and AA taking over T5 and closing the "Eagle's nest." Neither airline would gain gates - but they'd be able to run more efficient, consolidated operations.
a.
 
Amiga500
Posts: 2645
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:54 pm

Who are the main airlines servicing Long Beach and what do they fly?


If the airport is slot constrained, would the potential additional revenue feed into fleet renewal/expansion decisions?

i.e. A320neo is quieter than A320ceo, or B737-8 will be quieter than 737-800 will be much quieter than 737-400....
 
airliner371
Posts: 2405
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:00 pm

I could see UA adding SFO or DL adding SEA.
 
crazytoaster
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:09 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 7):

Who are the main airlines servicing Long Beach and what do they fly?

Only B6, DL, and AA currently serve LGB. DL and AA only to one hub. SLC and PHX.

The 9 additional departures is a ~20% increase. Maybe we could see AS come in? Or UA to DEN?
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
BeachBoy
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:05 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:11 pm

HA should grab a few and beat B6 to the punch and start A321 service from LGB-HNL/OGG/KOA/LIH in 2017 or whenever their A321s arrive. HA will never be able to operate out of SNA w/ their current and future fleet so maybe LGB might be a good alternative although it's awfully close to their relatively large LAX operation.

Are there aircraft size limits at LGB? If a 763 made more noise, does that then limit the amount of slots?
Maybe HA could test the waters first and start 763 service even before the A321s arrive . . .

[Edited 2015-12-01 10:15:10]
 
MKIAZ
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:33 pm

LGB-DFW would seem like relatively low hanging fruit for AA. DFW has lots of connections PHX doesn't. They could even just move one of the many lax flights.
 
NASBWI
Posts: 984
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:42 pm

I would be surprised if B6 didn't jump all over those slots to either reinstate discontinued routes (LGB-ORD), introduce new routes (LGB-DEN perhaps?), or expand upon existing routes. IMO, it'd be nice to see B6 broaden their presence throughout the west/southwest.

Quoting carljanderson (Reply 1):
I don't think that'll happen, however I wonder if they may grab 2 more to allow for more CRJ900's to SLC.

Do CRJ-900s fall within the regional slots? If so, it wouldn't need the additional 8-9 slots, would they?

As an aside, if B6 is able to establish a maintenance facility for the E190 fleet, with those additional slots, perhaps the 190s could see the west again (with opening new routes).

[Edited 2015-12-01 10:44:17]
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
alasizon
Posts: 2892
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:43 pm

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 11):

It seems low-hanging but then again, AA hasn't rushed into the BUR market with DFW flights yet and BUR to me seems like it would be first. BUR certainly has the room right now.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 8):
or DL adding SEA.

It could happen but I'd think with LAX/SNA bracketing LGB, they'd use their SEA gate space for something more productive. If AS isn't in LGB, then even less reason to go there.

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 12):
Do CRJ-900s fall within the regional slots? If so, it wouldn't need the additional 8-9 slots, would they?

I believe the CR7 does but the CR9 is mainline, IINM.

Doesn't LGB have turboprop slots as well, separate from these? I'd advocate a hybrid operation using a combination of both, such as LGB-MRY/STS/RNO on Q's and LGB-SJC/LAS/PHX on CR9's (or larger). Just musing - those are just fictional suggestions, but they might be able to fly under the radar a bit and also wouldn't face much same-airport competition due to the slots. That hasn't necessarily helped B6 with their LGB yields but it might be better marketed by a "home town" airline. Golden State Airlines, TransWest, Pacific Coastal - you get the idea.  

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
UALFAson
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 11):
LGB-DFW would seem like relatively low hanging fruit for AA.

AA used to fly route that well into the 2000s. I took it headed home to DCA one year for Thanksgiving.


The bigger problem is that no passengers want to fly out of LGB. It is a pain to get to in traffic. Most people would prefer to fly in and out of LAX, with more frequent flights to more destinations, usually at lower fares because of all the competition.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
NASBWI
Posts: 984
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:05 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 15):

I'm not from the area, but I'm genuinely curious: if someone is living in the southern LA basin, somewhere in the vicinity of LGB and SNA, which airport is more convenient? I don't mean international flights (where LAX is the clear choice), but rather domestic.

From my experience operating flights into and out of LGB, the airport had no problem filling up, and many of my customers have lauded the convenience of using LGB over LAX (at least, for the routes served by both airports).
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
carljanderson
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:29 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 12):
Do CRJ-900s fall within the regional slots? If so, it wouldn't need the additional 8-9 slots, would they?

No, the regional slots are for 75,000 lbs or less MTOW. CRJ7 fits.
 
NASBWI
Posts: 984
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:13 pm

Quoting carljanderson (Reply 17):

I see, said the blind man. I believe that was part of the problem B6 had when they originally sent the 190s out west. They were too heavy to be considered "regional", and carried fewer passengers than the 320s, while using the same slot.

It would be nice if, since the noise levels of jets have drastically reduced since 1990, the city council would revisit what constitutes a "regional" aircraft, or at least, raise the weight limit for MTOW. Even if the curfew remains in effect, I'm sure most wouldn't be too bothered with additional daytime traffic, given the noise abatement procedures (sorry, run-on sentence lol).
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 25328
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:17 pm

I doubt AS would be back at LGB considering they finally pulled out only this January.

Regarding aircraft that qualify for commuter slots which there are plenty of unused ones is a 75,000lbs certified MTOW limitation.

And yes if noise were to increase above the maximum allowed bucket (if Allegiant with MD-80 ops were to come back for example), the total number of slots could be reduced in future years.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 21996
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:28 pm

Yes!!!!!

The only issue with LGB is a lack of flights. This could make parking tight, but that is my only concern.

This makes me wonder how many more slots will open up with the transition to the NEO/MAX?   

JetBlue will obviously bid for slots.

Quoting BeachBoy (Reply 10):

Slots are allocated per the noise quota. So a 767 would use more slots than a narrowbody. Nothing stops an airline from overbidding... I'd like to see DEN added. by UA.

Lightsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
papatango
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 1999 10:32 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:32 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 6):

What/who is your source for this info?
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5104
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:41 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 12):
Do CRJ-900s fall within the regional slots? If so, it wouldn't need the additional 8-9 slots, would they?

The CR9s do not qualify for the regional slots i remember we discussed that a long time ago about LGB.

I feel like DL only serves SLC-LGB because B6 does and they want to pull people off those flights and keep them with Delta. I dont think delta would want to add any other cities unless incentives were offered.

AA to DFW might work so much connection power and AA has so many flyers in that region
 
NASBWI
Posts: 984
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:51 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 22):
The CR9s do not qualify for the regional slots i remember we discussed that a long time ago about LGB.

My apologies; I vaguely recall our discussion regarding the regional slots, but I thought it was more to do with the E-jets rather than the CRJ series (my impression being that the E-jets were heavier, and that the CRJs (all variants) were within the parameters.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 22):
AA to DFW might work so much connection power and AA has so many flyers in that region

Then again, didn't AA already operate LGB-DFW? If it was profitable (even during their financial turmoil), why axe it?

[Edited 2015-12-01 11:52:56]
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
777ord
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:04 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 11):
LGB-DFW would seem like relatively low hanging fruit for AA. DFW has lots of connections PHX doesn't. They could even just move one of the many lax flights.

Don't count on it... AA wants to establish and maintain their dominance at LAX. the spoke cities will remain just that. They may every now and again upgauge or add a flight here or there... But, their focus is strictly LAX.
 
carljanderson
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:29 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:02 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 18):
It would be nice if, since the noise levels of jets have drastically reduced since 1990, the city council would revisit what constitutes a "regional" aircraft, or at least, raise the weight limit for MTOW. Even if the curfew remains in effect, I'm sure most wouldn't be too bothered with additional daytime traffic, given the noise abatement procedures (sorry, run-on sentence lol).

That isn't going to happen.

Long Beach's current noise ordinance was grandfathered under ANCA. Any changes to LBMC 16.43 could result in the grandfathering beign taken away.
 
NASBWI
Posts: 984
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:30 pm

Well, that's a bummer. I guess one can always be hopeful. I'd love to see LGB expand - even if to compete with AA to PHX.
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
superjeff
Posts: 1414
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:10 pm

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 11):
LGB-DFW would seem like relatively low hanging fruit for AA. DFW has lots of connections PHX doesn't. They could even just move one of the many lax flights.

Years ago, AA did fly DFW-LGB-DFW, although they may have entered the market to compete with JetAmerica, a small niche carrier flying MD80's, which was ultimately acquired by Alaska Airlines, which discontinued the service. I don't know if it was ever a profitable service (I think, back then, that Jet America had 2 or 3 flights a day and American a similar number).
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6338
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:20 pm

I will put a different viewpoint out there...I dont think B6 wants tue slots.

I dont think they use all their slots now

JFK LGB is down to 2daily, and it is always the first transcon cancelled when bad weather hit

I think the whole LGB focus loses money but gives B6 a small intra west coast presence

I expect these slots to go unused when all is said and done
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:26 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
And yes if noise were to increase above the maximum allowed bucket (if Allegiant with MD-80 ops were to come back for example), the total number of slots could be reduced in future years.
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 28):

I will put a different viewpoint out there...I dont think B6 wants tue slots.

I dont think they use all their slots now

JFK LGB is down to 2daily, and it is always the first transcon cancelled when bad weather hit

I think the whole LGB focus loses money but gives B6 a small intra west coast presence

I expect these slots to go unused when all is said and done

I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:30 pm

At *most* I can see B6 adding SJC DEN PHX FLL MCO and *maybe* HOU.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 28):
JFK LGB is down to 2daily, and it is always the first transcon cancelled when bad weather hit

I don't blame B6 on this. People have tried SNA BUR ONT - NYC but few have found success. It's really LAX and nothing else.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:32 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 30):
I don't blame B6 on this.

Absolutely not. They've stuck it out in LGB longer than they probably have needed to once LAX got going. Frankly, I sort of wish someone else would come in with a more regional bent and give it a go. Hopefully a billionaire with deep pockets and an affinity for planes.  

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
carljanderson
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:29 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:32 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 28):
I expect these slots to go unused when all is said and done

That would suck, but not surprising.

I love that terminal though. They did a fantastic job putting it all together.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:37 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 31):
Hopefully a billionaire with deep pockets and an affinity for planes.

If you're talking about Richard Branson, he has already picked LAX, and based on the business model of VX, LGB just doesn't feel like the right fit.
 
User avatar
AAlaxfan
Posts: 716
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:08 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:51 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 16):
I'm not from the area, but I'm genuinely curious: if someone is living in the southern LA basin, somewhere in the vicinity of LGB and SNA, which airport is more convenient? I don't mean international flights (where LAX is the clear choice), but rather domestic.

Living here in Southern California, almost equidistant to SNA, ONT, and LGB, I do almost all my flying from LAX. Unfortunately, the pricing / frequencies / connections needed, from SNA, ONT, LGB to get to destinations just make the drive to LAX worth it. If all things were equal, I would fly LGB. From terminal to gate it's a breeze.
My favorite airport is the one I'm flying to! :airplane:
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:13 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 33):

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 31):
Hopefully a billionaire with deep pockets and an affinity for planes.

If you're talking about Richard Branson, he has already picked LAX, and based on the business model of VX, LGB just doesn't feel like the right fit.

No, I was just talking theoretically/fancifully. It would just seem that the best person to go into a losing battle like starting an airline from scratch would need to be someone that has money to burn and doesn't necessarily care if they get it all back.

Hmmm....Richard Branson....well, I guess he just might fit the bill.  

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26556
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:11 pm

Quoting Osubuckeyes (Reply 37):
T5 is 13 gates and the nest is 10.

Nest counts as 12 gates - 9 active and 3 inactive. Although 2 of those Nest gates are going to become T4 gates, as AA is adding two mainline gates to T4, and then the third gate will become active as a proposed domestic gate at TBIT. AA removed a nest gate to accommodate ERJ-175s.

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 36):
Wow...hadn't heard about this. But how co
ld AA not have at least a smallnet gain of gates in taking over T5?? I realize that closing the "Eagles Nest"
means moving all those RJ's over to T4/T5, but still.

No doubt AA would give up it's 4 T6 gates and it's 9 active Eagle gates - that's 13.

[Edited 2015-12-01 15:16:03]
a.
 
UALFAson
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:43 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 16):
I'm not from the area, but I'm genuinely curious: if someone is living in the southern LA basin, somewhere in the vicinity of LGB and SNA, which airport is more convenient? I don't mean international flights (where LAX is the clear choice), but rather domestic.

Depends where they are in the "southern L.A. basin." The issue is not so much distance, but trying to reach LGB in traffic on the 405 (also known as the 4 OR 5 hours). I'm not doubting that you may have some clients who happen to live nearby and may prefer its location (it's certainly more convenient in terms of curb-to-gate times), but those are exceptions rather than the rule. Study after study has shown that even people who live in Orange County would rather drive up to LAX, and have for years.

Case in point:

Quoting aalaxfan (Reply 34):
Living here in Southern California, almost equidistant to SNA, ONT, and LGB, I do almost all my flying from LAX. Unfortunately, the pricing / frequencies / connections needed, from SNA, ONT, LGB to get to destinations just make the drive to LAX worth it.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5895
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:46 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 15):


The bigger problem is that no passengers want to fly out of LGB.

The Cranky Flier (aka Brett Snyder) would disagree with you. More flights to more places would increase LGB awareness and utility.

Personally, with the quietness of today's aircraft LGB could go to 90 air carrier slot pairs (9 flights per gate) and the general public wouldn't know the dang difference. It's the only airport close to LA with a long runway besides LAX. ONT is a bit far and will hopefully see a rebound. Until then, LGB could be a gold mine a la SNA without all the BS SNA imposes on flight operations.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
User avatar
AirCbp
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 9:08 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:10 am

Quoting carljanderson (Reply 32):
I love that terminal though. They did a fantastic job putting it all together.

Couldn't agree more. The nicest terminal I've ever been into - even my non-airline enthusiast family loved it so much when we flew through there (to go to Orange County/Disney Parks) that they took tens of photos of the palm trees, open air waiting areas, etc.

Cheers.   
 
dacman
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2000 9:22 am

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:22 am

Operationally it doesn't make since for jetBlue to pick up more slots as they have 10 they do not even use. If they did pick-up more it would only be to keep other carriers from coming in choking off any competition and hurting local businesses.
"Airliner Photography is not a crime"
 
User avatar
FLIHGH
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:19 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:48 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 28):

LGB broke even I believe last year (or maybe it was 2 years ago) after minimizing losses year over year.
 
Sparrow787
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:22 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:57 am

Well lets not forget that jetBlue has been asking for a customs facility at the LGB airport, they would like to start up service to some mexican destinations from LGB
 
greg3322
Posts: 222
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:14 am

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 16):
I'm not from the area, but I'm genuinely curious: if someone is living in the southern LA basin, somewhere in the vicinity of LGB and SNA, which airport is more convenient? I don't mean international flights (where LAX is the clear choice), but rather domestic.

I live between LGB and SNA and work very close to LGB. I always try to fly out of LGB (almost always on B6) if possible. You go from parking to gate, including checking a bag and security, in less than 10 minutes. If that doesn't work, SNA is next up, but is often very expensive. LAX is third.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26658
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:40 am

Quoting FARmd90 (Reply 3):

What is the possibility of jetBlue going after these and adding some more routes?

That is always a possibility.

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 7):
Who are the main airlines servicing Long Beach and what do they fly?

jetBlue.

Austin, Boston, Las Vegas, New York–JFK, Oakland, Portland (OR), Sacramento, Salt Lake City, San Francisco, Seattle/Tacoma
Seasonal: Anchorage

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 7):
If the airport is slot constrained, would the potential additional revenue feed into fleet renewal/expansion decisions?

The slot constraints are artificial and purely political.

Quoting crazytoaster (Reply 9):
Maybe we could see AS come in?

They just left.

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 11):
LGB-DFW would seem like relatively low hanging fruit for AA. DFW has lots of connections PHX doesn't. They could even just move one of the many lax flights.

AA had DFW for years.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13882
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:58 am

Quoting alasizon (Reply 13):
AA hasn't rushed into the BUR market with DFW flights yet

Quite the opposite. AA killed BUR-DFW just a little while ago.


Quoting 777ord (Reply 24):
AA wants to establish and maintain their dominance at LAX. the spoke cities will remain just that. They may every now and again upgauge or add a flight here or there... But, their focus is strictly LAX.

That doesn't really follow sAA's history with 2ndary markets in its hub cities.

With the exception of CHI, AA has generally made a point to have a useful presence at most of them:
  • In MFW, it's got both domestically and internationally offerings at FLL, in addition to the MIA hub.
  • In NYC, it's got a significant presence in LGA, in addition to the MIA hub.
  • In DAL, it's always been willing to maintain a presence (waxes/wanes) at DAL, in addition to its flagship hub at DFW.
  • I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
     
    N1120A
    Posts: 26658
    Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

    RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

    Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:07 am

    Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 47):
    Quite the opposite. AA killed BUR-DFW just a little while ago.

    It has been a few years now. It is a pretty glaring weakness in their network, given their plan to dominate the QLA area.
    Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
     
    civetfive
    Posts: 187
    Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:44 am

    RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

    Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:49 am

    Quoting greg3322 (Reply 43):

    I grew up in the LA area but lived equidistant from LAX and BUR, so a similar analysis applies. LAX wins most battles because of:
    1) Price. Competition is strongest at LAX, so prices are *generally* better
    2) Frequency. Even WN at BUR can't really compete with the frequency offered at LAX by the carriers to their hubs and spokes ex-LAX.
    3) Relative convenience. LAX is accessible from the 405, 105, Sepulveda and even Lincoln. In the worst of traffic its an hour from the San Fernando Valley, downtown and the South Bay. BUR, SNA, and LGB don't have the same level of accessibility.
    4) Amenities. Yes, LGB, BUR and SNA have some of the best curb-to-gate times of anywhere, but it didn't help if my flight to SFO or DFW was delayed. Everyone has lounges at LAX, with decent food options, and I can get rerouted much better.

    I worked remote, in SF, for a Costa Mesa based company, and commuted twice a week. I mostly flew LAX-SJC rather than SNA or LGB, because I could count on LAX options to get me home come delays.
     
    timpdx
    Posts: 698
    Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:54 am

    RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

    Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:06 am

    Different strokes...I am the opposite, prefer BUR and LGB to LAX for my regional flights. And for me the drive across town on the 10 is so horrid I usually take surface streets. LGB has excellent surface streets around as an alternative to freeways, and the 710 usually is better than any freeway north south. I just HATE the parking monopoly at LGB, ive had a long weekend on a cheap fare and the parking was almost as much as the airfare.
    Flown 2018: LAX, ARN, DXB, ALA, TAS, UCG, ASB, MYP, GYD, TBS, KUT, BER, TLS, SVO, CCF, DUB, LGW, MEX, BUR, PDX, ORD, SLC, SNA
    Upcoming 2018: STL, MIA, BZE, IAH, BHM, LHR, DFW, PHX
     
    Beardown91737
    Posts: 897
    Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:56 pm

    RE: LGB To Receive 8-9 Additional Air Carrier Slots

    Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:58 am

    9 slots? Time for WN to start SFO or SMF?

    Quoting lightsaber (Reply 20):
    Slots are allocated per the noise quota. So a 767 would use more slots than a narrowbody. Nothing stops an airline from overbidding... I'd like to see DEN added. by UA.

    In 1984 I went in and out of LGB on a UA 767. It was a long airstair but we were out of there in just a few minutes.

    Quoting UALFAson (Reply 15):
    The bigger problem is that no passengers want to fly out of LGB. It is a pain to get to in traffic. Most people would prefer to fly in and out of LAX, with more frequent flights to more destinations, usually at lower fares because of all the competition.

    That's a matter of opinion. LAX is literally on the edge of the region, flanked by BUR and LGB. ONT, SNA, and BUR all draw from large geographic areas, and LGB is the second choice airport for many in OC. LAX is the International airport, with more frequencies and nonstops to more places. That translates to a lot of seats which airlines have to fill for lower prices, so for several factors, LAX draws from outside its own proximity, but ease of use isn't one of those reasons. Small airports are much easier. Now that I am relocated, I prefer DAL to DFW.

    Quoting NASBWI (Reply 16):
    I'm not from the area, but I'm genuinely curious: if someone is living in the southern LA basin, somewhere in the vicinity of LGB and SNA, which airport is more convenient? I don't mean international flights (where LAX is the clear choice), but rather domestic.

    From my experience operating flights into and out of LGB, the airport had no problem filling up, and many of my customers have lauded the convenience of using LGB over LAX (at least, for the routes served by both airports).

      
    Although a-netters may like the convergences of aircraft and liveries and choose based on hat.

    Quoting aalaxfan (Reply 34):
    Living here in Southern California, almost equidistant to SNA, ONT, and LGB, I do almost all my flying from LAX. Unfortunately, the pricing / frequencies / connections needed, from SNA, ONT, LGB to get to destinations just make the drive to LAX worth it. If all things were equal, I would fly LGB. From terminal to gate it's a breeze.

    Depends on where you are headed and how much you value the non-stops. My most frequent destinations were hubs so pretty much whatever airport was closest worked for me.
    135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.

    Popular Searches On Airliners.net

    Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

    Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

    Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

    Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

    Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

    Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

    Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

    Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

    Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

    Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

    Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

    Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

    Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

    Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

    Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos