pnqiad
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:55 pm

Quoting reality (Reply 48):

Unlike US, India has immigration and customs checks outbound as well - that is what it is referring to....
 
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Spiderguy252
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:00 pm

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 47):
Still, I have no idea why AI 174 BLR-DEL is operated by A321, not 77L to directly connect to the SFO flight. If HYD-DEL-ORD, AMD-BOM-EWR, BOM-DEL-JFK (all AI's US bound flights) all use the same equipment throughout, what makes BLR different? As a BLR fan this is frustrating...

To give you another example of this:

AI 143 MAA-DEL 08:45-11:30 A320
AI 143 DEL-CDG 13:10-18:00 B787
Vahroone
 
reality
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting airDFW (Reply 49):
It is the Indian customs/immigration not US.
Quoting pnqiad (Reply 50):
Unlike US, India has immigration and customs checks outbound as well - that is what it is referring to....

Ah...my mistake. Thank you.
 
as739x
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting reality (Reply 46):

Correct. They are not US pre-cleared in India. SFO Customs is starting to add officers earlier in the morning for AI and the upcoming UA starts of AKL/TLV-SFO, which will both arrive before normal operating hours of 0730L.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:08 pm

Quoting Spiderguy252 (Reply 51):

Ah ok, thanks. That's a bit disappointing.
 
modesto2
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 47):
Still, I have no idea why AI 174 BLR-DEL is operated by A321, not 77L to directly connect to the SFO flight. If HYD-DEL-ORD, AMD-BOM-EWR, BOM-DEL-JFK (all AI's US bound flights) all use the same equipment throughout, what makes BLR different? As a BLR fan this is frustrating...

I don't understand the frustration. US carriers operate direct or through flights all the time with the same flight number but change of aircraft. There's absolutely no requirement that both flights be operated by the same aircraft or aircraft type. Operating BLRDEL with a 77L would be an inefficient use of resources.
 
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AA777223
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:27 pm

Quoting modesto2 (Reply 55):
Operating BLRDEL with a 77L would be an inefficient use of resources.

In all fairness, those 77Ls having been doing little regional hops for quite a while, after AI shut down some of their other ULR routes. The "efficient use of resources' doesn't seem to be a top priority for AI. After all, they do treat their new 777s and 787s as parts bins.
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175/190, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting modesto2 (Reply 55):

I realise that, but those don't seem like true direct flights. You have to change planes, which means going to some different gate/concourse/terminal. It's like any other connecting flight.

AI however operates tag-ons to HYD/AMD/BOM on all their US flights - except SFO - and these tag-ons use the same long haul equipment. E.g. HYD-DEL is on a 77W, and so is DEL-ORD.

Also I just wanted to see an AI 77L in BLR  
 
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Spiderguy252
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:53 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 56):
In all fairness, those 77Ls having been doing little regional hops for quite a while, after AI shut down some of their other ULR routes. The "efficient use of resources' doesn't seem to be a top priority for AI. After all, they do treat their new 777s and 787s as parts bins.

Well, we should be thankful that this hasn't been the case for this ULH run instead of bemoaning the fact that AI aren't committing a stupid mistake just because it's something we would expect on another day.
Vahroone
 
Nimish
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:08 pm

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 47):
OK, well passengers originating in BLR can also clear customs/immigration in BLR itself.

Not just pax from BLR, but I presume pax from HYD and BOM can do the as well - as both have similarly timed "international connectors" which meet at the DEL hub to transfer pax from BOM/ HYD/ BLR to JFK/ ORD/ SFO. There might be a proposal to add on CCU-DEL-IAD to the same ~2 am departure bank - as widely reported in the Indian media.

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 47):
Still, I have no idea why AI 174 BLR-DEL is operated by A321, not 77L to directly connect to the SFO flight. If HYD-DEL-ORD, AMD-BOM-EWR, BOM-DEL-JFK (all AI's US bound flights) all use the same equipment throughout, what makes BLR different? As a BLR fan this is frustrating...

It really does not matter - not unless you're flying F or J (in which case the 321 J product is not lie-flat). And it's possible that AI will eventually remove the 77W from HYD or add the 77L to BLR - all depends on how the route does and a/c availability.
Incredible India!
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 59):

Ok, thanks for the *cough* kind *cough* explanation.

AI 174 back to DEL appears to have still not departed, 1h behind schedule. Anyone know why ?
 
b747400erf
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:01 pm

AI174 delayed over 1.5 hours,is this due to SFO or first flight celebrations?
 
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legacyins
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:07 pm

It is taxing now for departure on 28L.
 
jfk777
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:18 pm

any photo in San Francisco would be appreciated .
 
jetblue1965
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:30 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 63):
any photo in San Francisco would be appreciated .

Check SFO's facebook page - they're definitely trying to celebrate the new service.
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:08 pm

Will it have the flexibility of flying either westward or eastward?
 
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legacyins
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:30 pm

Air India arrival into SFO this morning. Photos provided by SFO Facebook.





Air India taxing out to departure on 28 L

 
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Ytraveller
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:35 pm

Quoting legacyins (Reply 66):

Thanks for sharing these pics! Nice to see them do a rangoli at SFO.
 
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Clipper101
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:08 pm

Now it is flying back on a 'Eastward' route as AI174, according to FR24 estimated flying time back to DEL should be just less than 16hours .... ouch, this is long.

[Edited 2015-12-02 14:11:37]
 
audian
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:23 pm

One thing I didn't understood looking at flight plan for ET182 and AI174 on Flightaware(they are flying pretty close to each other at this point),

EY 182 SFO-AUH has 8700 miles on planned route and 14 hours 26 minutes as flight duration.
AI 174 SFO-DEL has 8500 miles on planned route and 15 hours 45 minutes as flight duration.

How does this makes sense?
 
Rdh3e
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting audian (Reply 69):
EY 182 SFO-AUH has 8700 miles on planned route and 14 hours 26 minutes as flight duration

That's odd, published blocks for the flights are:

AUH-SFO 16:15
SFO-AUH 16:05

DEL-SFO 16:55
SFO-DEL 16:15
 
b747400erf
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:07 pm

Quoting audian (Reply 69):
AI 174 SFO-DEL has 8500 miles on planned route and 15 hours 45 minutes as flight duration.

Flightaware does not calculate flights outside of America properly it has lots of gaps in coverage areas. The flight is approx 7600 miles and 15:20 hours long. The Etihad flight will be a bit longer due to limited number of routes through Iran.

[Edited 2015-12-02 15:08:53]
 
mikeology
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:44 pm

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 10):
Aircraft is VT-ALG, approaching runway 29 now. We will see her 16h45 later!

Correct me if i'm wrong but this would now be close to the 5th longest commercial passenger flight in the world?

Also now SFO would have 3 of the top 10 in the same category?
 
FriscoHeavy
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:05 am

Anyone have any performance figures for these flights....fuel load, how close to MTOW they are, runway length needed for departure (I know this varies dependig on many variables), etc?
Whatever
 
as739x
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:58 am

Quoting audian (Reply 69):
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 70):

People spend to much time comparing block time vs distance. Airlines routinely add time to the block time to increase onetime performance. I'm not saying this is what AI is doing, but its a common mistake when comparing.

The other variable here could be flight routing for aircraft performance, terrain, political, etc.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
910A
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:31 am

New Delhi: Air India has started first-ever non-stop flight from New Delhi to San Francisco on Wednesday. Air India officials said that the response so far has been encouraging and all SFO flights are 90 per cent booked for December.
"This new service is significant- the first nonstop flight from the West Coast of the US to India, saving hours off the journey time," Charles Schuler, Director of Communications SFO said.
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/ai...today-90-seats-booked-1171390.html
 
b747400erf
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:52 am

And the Etihad went a more southerly route while the Air India went for a polar route. More economical and saves time. Etihad will be dodging lots of traffic on busy corridors especially around the Balkans, Turkey and Iran.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:08 am

Quoting mikeology (Reply 72):
Correct me if i'm wrong but this would now be close to the 5th longest commercial passenger flight in the world?

Makes sense, though. SF is a pacific port and relatively far north as far as west coast major cities go. Given that the section of the world between IST and, say, SIN is on the opposite side of the hemisphere from us, it makes some sense that we have such long routes these days. We're about as far from that busy sector of the world as one can be while being in range of an ULR aircraft.

I'm certainly not taking a 17h flight in Y. Ever.

Now, can someone explain the details of why a 77L can't clear the Himalayas with one engine out even if it involves dodging some peaks?

[Edited 2015-12-02 23:17:59]
-Doc Lightning-

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airzim
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:27 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 77):
Now, can someone explain the details of why a 77L can't clear the Himalayas with one engine out even if it involves dodging some peaks?

A pilot would have better information, but from memory, if you lose an engine on take off, SOP is to descend/maintain a lower altitude which puts you smack into the mountains.

Given the height and proximity to the Himalayas, DEL has a unique situation for flights heading transpolar.
 
golfradio
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:55 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 77):
Now, can someone explain the details of why a 77L can't clear the Himalayas with one engine out even if it involves dodging some peaks?

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. I believe the OEI service ceiling for the 77L is FL210. If you lose an engine and are drifting down, there are a lot of peaks there that reach above 21000 feet. Based on where you are, your sector MSA may be higher than the service ceiling.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
910A
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:32 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 77):

I'm certainly not taking a 17h flight in Y. Ever.

On the plus side, AI seats are wider, only nine across and they have 34" of legroom in Y.
 
bharathkv
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:37 pm

Great pics. I feel arriving at 5:30AM PST could be a bit too early, but probably that is the best that could be accommodated considering connecting flights at DEL on the return. Thoughts?
 
ytz
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:16 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 9):

The 778 and 779 would be a great fit for AI. 778 for North America. 779 for hubs like London. Then deploy the 787 for places like Australia and the Gulf. However, whether the Indian government has any interest in funding such growth is a toss-up question. I would guess, that it isn't likely.

AI really needs three hubs. BOM, DEL and BLR. And their routes should really be rationalized. For example, service Australia from DEL is not as effective as serving Australia from BLR. Most of Europe and North America would be better served from DEL. And Africa would be better served from BOM.

Rationalizing these routes to more appropriate gateways would let them use heavier aircraft. For example, 779 on DEL-ORD/JFK/IAD/YYZ. And then 778 for DEL-YVR/SFO/LAX for ulta-long haul. AI, with their cost base, could actually make money on these routes. But again rationalizing the routes is important. DEL-SYD makes no sense, for example. Since quite a few travelers would have to backtrack. BLR-SYD would be much more effective. And saving the 600 nm from DEL, actually makes it a solidly average long-haul route. They could hit every major city in Australia and New Zelaland from BLR.
 
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legacyins
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:08 pm

With regards to the crew, I assume on the Wednesday and Friday flights, they get a one day layover and on the Sunday flight, they get a two day layover?
 
jacobin777
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:26 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 77):
I'm certainly not taking a 17h flight in Y. Ever.

If the "Price is Right" (Bob Barker    ) and a family of 4-5 saves hundreds if not thousands of dollars then its probably worth it.


Apropos, ironically "Price is Right" is never cheap as they use "actual retail value"...LOL.
"Up the Irons!"
 
ytz
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:29 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 77):
I'm certainly not taking a 17h flight in Y. Ever.

Thing is. If your final destination is DEL, you'll save a good chunk of time (at least 4-5 hrs) and the timing let's you arrive in time to have dinner and go to bed. Jetlag will be minimized. And since there's a good size and growing IT and backoffice outsourcing sector in Gurgaon (a New Delhi suburb), there will be a good bit of o/d on this route itself.

I don't think it's going to draw a lot of the SFO-BLR traffic, despite the single flight branding. There's not much of a time savings over competitors. That said, I'm sure it'll get a bit of marketshare at least. The timings are mostly certainly better. Banglaore arrival at night (2035 hrs local) instead of early morning. And the Y offering is better with more pitch and width. And of course, it's more familiar to the Indian diaspora living in SFO. All that should be enough to guarantee a healthy top-up over SFO-DEL itself.

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 84):
If the "Price is Right" (Bob Barker ) and a family of 4-5 saves hundreds if not thousands of dollars then its probably worth it.

This is what's wrong with Air India, though. Direct flights should never be at a discount.
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:48 am

Quoting YTZ (Reply 82):
The 778 and 779 would be a great fit for AI. 778 for North America. 779 for hubs like London.

Oh god no, don't tempt AI folks to do another multibillion $ WB a/c purchasing fiasco. The one that led to the current lot of WBs was more than enough of a financial catastrophe for this lifetime.   
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
S75752
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:48 am

Quoting 910A (Reply 75):
all SFO flights are 90 per cent booked for December.

Wow, I think that blew expectations away given how short the time between announcement and starting was!

Quoting YTZ (Reply 85):
And of course, it's more familiar to the Indian diaspora living in SFO. All that should be enough to guarantee a healthy top-up over SFO-DEL itself.

Ironically, at least from impressions here and many who I talk to, it might be specifically the Indian diaspora who avoid AI, lol. I think it will be popular with the business crowd, Indian citizens, and those from the US not of the Indian diaspora mostly.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:00 am

Quoting Ytraveller (Reply 25):
It's avoiding the Himalayas (see post #13). Now it looks like it's following the path EK takes DXB-SFO.

AI is allowed in Chinese airspace (they fly to PVG).

There's no civilian air corridors in that region of China going the direction this flight needs to go anyway. Western China is very barren in terms of allowed airways for civilian traffic.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 77):


Now, can someone explain the details of why a 77L can't clear the Himalayas with one engine out even if it involves dodging some peaks?
Quoting golfradio (Reply 79):
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. I believe the OEI service ceiling for the 77L is FL210. If you lose an engine and are drifting down, there are a lot of peaks there that reach above 21000 feet. Based on where you are, your sector MSA may be higher than the service ceiling.

I imagine it's even lower close to MTOW. A significant amount of the Tibetian Plateau is over 5000 m. The other consideration is oxygen needs in case of decompression. AFAIR Qantas carried additional plumbed oxygen supply for pax and crew on B744s when they inaugurated the L-888 route over China.

See: http://johnradge.com/escape-routes-over-china/

Look at the minimum en-route altitudes, and the ziz-zag all the way from RED6 to ZWWW/Urumqi!

If I have time later I can plot this on a map. Btw, no pilot here, so maybe one can chip in.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
N1120A
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:03 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 77):
Now, can someone explain the details of why a 77L can't clear the Himalayas with one engine out even if it involves dodging some peaks?

The issue is engine out on twins generally. The plane is too heavy, when full of fuel, to fly at sufficient altitude to clear even the lowest of the mountains in an engine out situation.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
S75752
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:11 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 88):
Western China is very barren in terms of allowed airways for civilian traffic.

Why is that?
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:25 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 90):
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 88):
Western China is very barren in terms of allowed airways for civilian traffic.

Why is that?

The Chinese blocked off all but a few airways to civilian air traffic.
 
jacobin777
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:57 am

Quoting YTZ (Reply 85):
This is what's wrong with Air India, though. Direct flights should never be at a discount.

Its not as if they are a "for-profit" entity.   
"Up the Irons!"
 
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legacyins
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:18 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 90):
Why is that?

Because the Chinese Military controls most of the air rights in all of China.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:14 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 18):
Folks in the Bay area: Please be alert for panels that may fall off of this aircraft as it flys overhead as AI have been known to use only 4 of 47 screws to hold panels in place!

Thanks for adding your lovely sense of humour to an otherwise positive thread.... can you restrict yourself to the many AI bashing threads on a.net?   
 
Chaostheory
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:52 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 26):
Ytraveller is correct. They avoid the highest peaks of the Himalayas ,as the engine out performance over those mountains would lead to one hell of a situation if they lose an engine, specially at that weight.
Quoting RemoFlyer (Reply 31):
They cannot carry the fuel weight of an ULH over the higher peaks eastbound just in case something happens.

Your examples of DEL xxx xxx SFO would carry a lot less fuel on the first leg
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 77):
Now, can someone explain the details of why a 77L can't clear the Himalayas with one engine out even if it involves dodging some peaks?
Quoting airzim (Reply 78):
A pilot would have better information, but from memory, if you lose an engine on take off, SOP is to descend/maintain a lower altitude which puts you smack into the mountains.

Given the height and proximity to the Himalayas, DEL has a unique situation for flights heading transpolar.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 89):
The issue is engine out on twins generally. The plane is too heavy, when full of fuel, to fly at sufficient altitude to clear even the lowest of the mountains in an engine out situation.

Actually, all those of you who mentioned engine out/pressurisation issues are wrong. There are plenty of valleys in the region and aircraft can be equipped with extended duration O2 supplies.

The terrain on the Pakistani/China side is actually much higher and yet we still have the G325/B215 airways skirting past K2 and the "Brums". See here:

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t534/chaostheory2/Hillyregion_zps5c028df5.jpg

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 88):
There's no civilian air corridors in that region of China going the direction this flight needs to go anyway. Western China is very barren in terms of allowed airways for civilian traffic.

Full points to you sir.

I'm going to be lazy and post my reply from a related topic which should explain the rest:

If you want efficient North America-India ops with the 787, you need to persuade the Chinese give you access to better routings.

ICAO has been trying to get the Chinese to allow a new routing from LELAX (near Leh, North India) - QIM (Qiemo, China - FKG (Fukang, China) followed by the already established B206 airway to GOPTO intersection.

By my calculations, such a routing would cut in the region of 275nm/25min off the current routings which require a detour over Pakistan and Afghanistan.


http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t534/chaostheory2/routings_zps4f962ec9.jpg

AI To Convert 787-8s Into 787-9s (by KarelXWB Dec 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:12 am

Quoting Chaostheory (Reply 95):

Full points to you sir.

Why thanks.   

Quoting Chaostheory (Reply 95):

Actually, all those of you who mentioned engine out/pressurisation issues are wrong. There are plenty of valleys in the region and aircraft can be equipped with extended duration O2 supplies.

I thought it was worth a mention though, because AFAIK not many airliners are equipped with extended O2. On some of these airways you'd need 1.5-2 hrs worth as opposed to the regular 15 minutes.

I'd actually like to make a dramatic descent like this and weave through the valleys and canyons like a fighter jet, but in a 747 or A380.  

Quoting Chaostheory (Reply 95):
ICAO has been trying to get the Chinese to allow a new routing from LELAX (near Leh, North India) - QIM (Qiemo, China - FKG (Fukang, China) followed by the already established B206 airway to GOPTO intersection.

Yeah, it took ICAO years to persuade the Chinese to open L-888 ... only to not have that many flights use it. I doubt the Chinese will be persuaded anytime soon, unless there is a domestic incentive.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
BiggerJetsPlz
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RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:03 am

Anyone else notice they keep using the same exact plane for this flight? It's VT-ALG every time. Is there something unique about ALG's setup that ALF and ALH don't have?
 
CHI787ORD
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Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:27 am

RE: AI Begins SFO Today 2 Dec

Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:20 am

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 86):

Oh god no, don't tempt AI folks to do another multibillion $ WB a/c purchasing fiasco. The one that led to the current lot of WBs was more than enough of a financial catastrophe for this lifetime.

In AI's defense, they were at a point were they desperately needed a new fleet. The old 747s and the ex-UA 777 "rustbuckets" needed to be replaced if AI was ever going to modernize. They just went a little overboard with what they needed to actually order.

I believe the 777-LR fleet was suppose to be stationed in BOM and be used for USA/Canada flights. AI then decided to pretty much consolidate at DEL and the AI/IC merger was a financial mess.

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