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flyingturtle
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Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:32 pm

There are accidents, and there are those accidents. Accidents that were not caused by incompetence, but by sheer WTF??!!???. Accidents that were not caused by hillbillies who steal a Cessna and crash it, but by rather seasoned pilots who completely lose it. The pilot errors of pilots who are able to think and decide, but think and decide in the completely wrong way. People who achieved a true WTF, a Worse Than Failure.

Accidents where just everything went down in flames. Even the infamous Everglades crash was, IMHO, not that horrible - because the NTSB and NASA identified real flaws. This accident led to the CRM programmes which later saved countless lives. But which accidents were just a total, unforgiving, hopeless, festering disaster where nothing could be learned from?

I want to compile a series of accident investigation reports which can read on Halloween by the light of a flickering candle, far away in a creaky cabin in the woods, together with friends who are - hopefully - able to withstand real horror stories.

Right now, I'm at a loss for a good candidate, despite my penchant for reading accident investigation reports...


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
iahcsr
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:17 pm

SIA 6 at TPE and NW255 at DTW come to mind.
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flyingturtle
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 1):

*groans*

Thank you, this is a very good one. I've read the report, but in order to maintain sanity, my mind chose to forget...   

I could pitch in with the accident of the plane HB-YMN in 2007. A retired Swissair pilot with 7 years of MD-11 experience, who died in an experimental plane, trying to cross the Atlantic from BSL and crashing into a home after a 3.8 km flight. The list of errors?
- financial/publicity pressure to do the flight without delays
- before the start, after fuelling the plane fell on its back, leading to counterweights being placed in the cockpit
- center of gravity was calculated with a method usual for airliners, and even incorrectly (22% MAC, but calculations done by the investigation board show 35.8%). Documentation by the company responsible for the building plans say that 15.2 to 35.4% MAC were allowed at 1542 kg MTOW.
- no test flights with overweight have been done, neither has the plane been moved on the ground with more than 1700 kg
- the Swiss civil aviation authority gave a waiver to fly with 2450 kg based on engine power calculations only
- actual take-off mass was 2602 kg
- an expert from the experimental aviation association told him to abort take-off if not airborne after 700 m, but he lifts off after a 50 second, 3400 m take-off roll (runway had a 3900 m length)
- calculations showed that the plane should have lifted off at 950 meters take-off roll with 95 knots IAS
- take-off was done with slight tailwind
- no abort even after 3400 m, despite the aircraft being followed by a firefighting vehicle
- tires should have been filled with a higher tire pressure, and the much higher rolling drag should have been noticed
- plane lifted off with downwards-deflected elevators
- in French and on the TWR frequency, an airport fireman spoke of smoke coming from the wheels

All this despite the pilot's huge experience, also with long-distance solo flights over water.


David

[Edited 2015-12-02 09:46:22]
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
Chaostheory
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:52 pm

Not accidents but two incidents come to mind which were no doubt rollercoaster rides.

Chinese A319 or A320 aircraft that was flown into a microburst. The aircraft stalled and then recovered with the aid of alpha protection despite the crew at full back stick through the entire event.

An A330 that flew through a rapidly developing Cb over Tanzania. It was hit by a 130 knot updraft that forced the aircraft up to FL390 before the crew could control the pitch.

I've got the reports somewhere, so I'll revisit this thread if I can and provide more detail.
 
tepidhalibut
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:02 pm

I'd suggest that Pinnacle Airlines Flight 3701 is worth considering.

Experienced crew encounter a hitherto untroublesome phenomenon - Engine Rotor Lock - and die as a result.

However, said crew and their jaw-dropping behaviour are FAR from blameless in this case.

You could start here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinnacle_Airlines_Flight_3701
 
jonathan-l
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:15 pm

Air Florida 90 (January 1982, 737 out of DCA that crashes shortly after take-off in the Potomac)

Excerpt from the Wikipedia article:
"The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) determined that the cause of the accident was pilot error. The pilots failed to switch on the engines' internal ice protection systems, used reverse thrust in a snowstorm prior to takeoff, tried to use the jet exhaust of a plane in front of them to melt their own ice, and failed to abort the takeoff even after detecting a power problem while taxiing and visually identifying ice and snow buildup on the wings."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:24 pm

All of the reports (Air Asia, AF447, Colgan, etc., etc.) where a pilot holds the stick back for an extended period of time. I'm not a pilot, but is there ever a situation where that would be the right response to an issue? I just don't understand how that would be anyone's reaction to an unexpected event.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:24 pm

Quoting tepidhalibut (Reply 5):
I'd suggest that Pinnacle Airlines Flight 3701 is worth considering.

Yes, indeed if you look at the transcript of the CVR along with the FDR info of the flight, it is likely one of the worst ones one may ever read. The words are absolutely chilling in the context of the OP's question. They broke the envelope then for 3-4 minutes of absolute panic and swearing, knowing they were doomed.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting tepidhalibut (Reply 5):
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 8):

Yes, and not disclosing the true nature of their situation to ATC... and a bad strategy to restart the engines through windmilling... that was jaw-dropping. It reads like a "How many things can we **** up?" hullabalooza.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):

Mind you, I'm not a pilot too. But I'm always curious and eager to learn.

At least in the AF447 accident, the stick wasn't pulled back for longer times. In Normal Law, you can pull the stick back as much and as long as you want... but it's no terribly efficient way to fly. The problems begin when you lose protections.

One application of "stick back all the time" could be when the freight shifts forward for a reason. But because the force generated by the elevators to pitch up/down is dependent on airspeed, you'll lose authority when you slow down for landing... quite simple flight physics. In the example of the ex-SR pilot in my reply above, he had actually to *push* during the whole take-off, otherwise the AoA would have been too large and the plane would have stalled long ago before crashing with the house.

David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
bennett123
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:09 pm

How about the Avianca B707 that crashed near New York in 1991.

One sure way to crash is lack of fuel.
 
kaitak
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:34 pm

I think that for me, the two worst would be AF 447. What I found so scary was that by the time they got down to FL100, the game was pretty much up; even the captain's arrival into the cockpit didn't avert disaster.

Then, of course, you would have include the Aeroflot A310 fight, where the captain allowed his daughter and son to sit in the left seat and the situation gradually slipped out of their control. And we know how that ended - a truly tragic story.
 
laddb
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:00 pm

Eastern Air Lines Flight 401 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Air_Lines_Flight_401
 
cedarjet
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:35 pm

Pinnacle and AF447 are two excellent cases of total lack of airmanship, common sense, basic cognitive skills. Darwin Award winners both.

Very sketchy info online but in the 90s an Azeri 707 did a low pass for the tower to check if the gear was down — and flew into a bridge.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
TFFIP
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:31 pm

Would you put Saudia 163 on your list (8/19/80) ? I don't know enough about it to judge only that everyone died yet the plane landed safely and taxied off the runway.

[Edited 2015-12-02 14:43:44]
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:45 pm

In 1963, Swissair flight 306 wanted to take off in dense fog. The crew decided to taxi down half the runway with a high thrust setting in order to inspect and clear fog, with returning to the end of the runway and then taking off.

At 6:04 AM, the clearance to taxi down the runway was given... at 6:14, the take-off roll commenced. It doesn't really take a Caravelle scientist to figure out what happened later...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_306


And a comment to the mentions of AF447: Yes, it was one sad example of CRM not being applied. Heck, the disasters that gave birth to CRM occurred in the 1970ies. We should really be at a point where tasks are distributed, responsibilities clarified, and you clearly communicate the information (as well as hunches like "uh, could we be stalling?"). And we should have at least one person on board who defends the QRH with his teeth and claws and insists upon working through the procedures. It suffices when one person is flying.

The CRM breakdown in AF447 is unforgivable.


David
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airmagnac
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:11 pm

United Airlines 178 : Similar to Eastern 401, but even more disconcerting as the crew actually spent hours focusing on thorough by-the-book processing of a potential problem. Or how too much safety precaution can be bad for safety...

The Challenger disaster is an interesting study. Similar to the Dc10 cargo door locking issue, the O-ring behabior in cold temperatures had been identified, but the info never made it to the people making the decisions.

But the crown accident is not an aerospace one. Look up the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster off Zeebrugge in 1986. The ferry went out to the open sea at 20kts....with its bow door open. Capsized within a few minutes, and 200 people died.
More generally, ferry accidents are fairly nightmarish.

I'd recommend "Normal Accidents" by Charles Perrow, if you're interested in the non-obvious aspects of complex accidents. It covers many areas beyond aviation like chemical plamts, nuclear power, dams... So it provides some good perspective.
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:48 pm

Why not just buy DVDs of the Smithsonian Channel's "Air Disasters" series.

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/shows/air-disasters/802
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:07 am

Have a look at this, flight SK 1209 on 9 Sep 2007: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fju2r128yqs

They had a red indication on the right MLG. From the cabin the crew could have seen the gear hanging as a pendulum. So was the single strut and actuator, which had separated.

I was watching this live on TV together with my brother in law (TV had rushed to the site while they were burning off excess fuel). I was telling my brother in law that he would now see him feather #2 engine on the approach, then land smoothly and keep right wing high with the ailerons as far as possible.

As can be seen on the video, none of that happened. Instead he extended the spoilers right after touch down.

Several pax were injured by propeller shrapnel entering the cabin, one quite seriously. It could easily have killed a few pax.

The captain said that he believed that it was a faulty fault indication since he had seen from the cabin that the gear was down, and they had had so many faulty fault indications.

---------------------------------------

But this was not the end of it. It took the investigators fifteen minutes to find out that corrosion had eaten the threads away, separating the strut and actuator from the gear. What the flight crew could have seen out of the cabin windows. SAS, who had taken a serious pounding in the press due to horrible Dash-8 dispatch reliability, said that this was a one off incident, and was totally unrelated to the many previous troubles.

We spool fast forward 60 hours and exactly the same happens to SK 2748. Only this time in the dark. And the pilot had learned from mistakes of his colleague, so nobody was hurt.

Only then (after grounding the fleet) was it realized that the corrosion was pretty much fleet wide, and most of the remaining 26 planes would have crashed the same way over time.

[Edited 2015-12-02 16:27:47]
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flyingturtle
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:10 am

Now that many suggestions are coming - for which I'm already very grateful   - one pops back into my head:

HB-XAW, a Bell 47 helicopter which crashed in 1980, near the living place of my grandma. It was a VFR instruction flight, and the instructor was the most experienced pilot of the helicopter company with nine helicopter type ratings. The student already had a professional helicopter certificate, and needed some night flying practice for his NVFR rating.

The last witnesses have seen the helicopter at about 100 m AGL, below the legal minimum of 150 m AGL, supposedly in order not to lose spatial awareness in light snowfall. They then collide with a power line in heavier snowfall.

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 17):
Why not just buy DVDs of the Smithsonian Channel's "Air Disasters" series.

No, I'm interested in the bizarre, weird and mind-boggling literature aviation investigations have to offer.   For example, the Tenerife disaster was grisly in terms of deaths and injuries - but yet how it happened is explained easily.

Quoting TFFIP (Reply 14):
Would you put Saudia 163 on your list (8/19/80) ? I don't know enough about it to judge only that everyone died yet the plane landed safely and taxied off the runway.

Now that you mention it, I remember reading about it. It's so weird and tragic... declaring an emergency, then a landing as if nothing had happened... taxies off the runway... the fire responders have no clue that people will be dying very, very soon... I'll surely put it on my list.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 13):
Very sketchy info online but in the 90s an Azeri 707 did a low pass for the tower to check if the gear was down — and flew into a bridge.

I have to read more about this one. This is crazy.   

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 16):
United Airlines 178 : Similar to Eastern 401, but even more disconcerting as the crew actually spent hours focusing on thorough by-the-book processing of a potential problem. Or how too much safety precaution can be bad for safety...

You surely mean 173, not 178. I've done some translating for its Wikipedia article, but somehow it didn't hop back into my brain. This was mind-boggling. McFly, are you home? Could you watch the fuel gauge please while the others do their landing gear troubleshooting? Ironically, the gear was down and locked - an unintentional gravity drop due to malfunction!

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 10):

We're very low on fuel, we ask for a "priority" landing. Tower: "Avianca, you have priority!". Declare emergency, not bankruptcy.  
Quoting laddb (Reply 12):

401 is a Marty McFly moment again, but with "Could you watch the altitude please?".

While flight 401 was extremely important the creation of CRM, like the TFN and the 173 disaster, they are somewhat excusable. They just didn't have good CRM then. That type of accident was novel for its time, and we were able to learn from them.

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 16):

I heartily remember reading of physicist Feynman's and General Kutyna's superb investigation into the Challenger disaster. Both uncovered the organizational failure NASA and its contractors were, where warnings and helpful suggestions were turned down because procedures would have to be changed. Mindboggling in its organizational failure inside NASA, but I can't really see the aviation/space flight part of this disaster.

The Columbia disaster would rank much higher on my horror list: Why the hell didn't we learn from Challenger? We've been noticing foam falling from the fuel tank onto the shuttle for a long time, we've been noticing the potential for disaster, but no, because nothing happened yet we're sure nothing will ever happen. Again, an organizational failure, a failure to pick up signals from engineers.

I think the Spatzenschüttler ("sparrow shaker" - Germans will understand this) was very damaging to the US spaceflight programme, as it delayed the service entry of less expensive but perhaps safer vehicle. You can't have two human spaceflight programmes side to side... and many contractors (and their congresspeople) were dependent on shaking the sparrows longer than necessary.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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Aesma
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:25 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):
All of the reports (Air Asia, AF447, Colgan, etc., etc.) where a pilot holds the stick back for an extended period of time. I'm not a pilot, but is there ever a situation where that would be the right response to an issue? I just don't understand how that would be anyone's reaction to an unexpected event.

Well, in normal law, you can fly an Airbus that way. A good reason to do it would be when trying to avoid something, like for example :

Airblue Flight 202

That I propose to this topic. Main difficulty of the airport is the terrain, yet they ended up splattered on a mountain.
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flyingturtle
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:31 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 18):

So they didn't look out of the window, and ascertained in which state the MLG was? A seasoned passenger could do this. After a while you know how something should look like... sad.

It's somehow similar to the high speed train disaster in Eschede, Germany, where more than 100 people died. A wheel rim detached the from wheel, smashed through the floor of the train car, but yet the scared passenger went searching for a train conductor... both then walked to the damaged car, instead of pulling the emergency brake.

Referring to airmagnac's reply, Eschede was also an organizational disaster, like the Challenger one was. Small fractures on the inside of the wheel rim were much harder to find when a ring of rubber was placed between wheel and wheel rim - a feature to enhance the passenger's comfort. There has been no high-speed testing of these "rubberized" wheels from a safety engineering point of view, and documentation from the manufacturer was disregarded, and the safety implication of these wheels - which were otherwise only used for tramways - were not really known at the German railways.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:37 am

This one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Fairchild_Air_Force_Base_B-52_crash

Pilot with a history of recklessness finally kills himself....and three others.

And this quite similar one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Alaska_C-17_crash
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RottenRay
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:45 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Thread starter):
The pilot errors of pilots who are able to think and decide, but think and decide in the completely wrong way.


Tenerife.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:28 am

Nothing to do with a crew losing it (they did an amazing job), but totally wacky weather and a minute mechanical issue combined for one hell of a hair-raising read in this one (especially the CVR transcript).

Behold the tale of N473EV: http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR9306.pdf
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lweber557
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:50 am

Comair 5191. Neither one of the pilots realized they had taxied on to the wrong runway and attempted to takeoff. Didn't help there was only one controller on duty who after clearing the flight for takeoff was busy doing other tasks and wasn't able to notice their mistake.

[Edited 2015-12-02 19:51:16]
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flyDTW1992
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:45 am

Quoting lweber557 (Reply 25):

Comair 5191. Neither one of the pilots realized they had taxied on to the wrong runway and attempted to takeoff. Didn't help there was only one controller on duty who after clearing the flight for takeoff was busy doing other tasks and wasn't able to notice their mistake.

That's a good one (or rather, bad one, I suppose). Spent several days in class discussing that one in depth in one of my aviation safety courses.
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TheFlyingDisk
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:53 am

Can the Mahon Report on Air New Zealand 901 be considered as a crash report? I would say that it will raise a few hairs if you read through it, especially the part about NZ's attempts to cover up their behinds.

It's a pity then that later legal action took away some of the impact of the report and, from what I've read, Justice Mahon's reputation.
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lewis
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:56 am

I remember this happening when I lived in Athens:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

The aircraft went all the way to holding pattern in Athens on auto pilot and crashed when it ran out of fuel, luckily not in an inhabited area.
 
CO953
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:18 am

Quoting iahcsr (Reply 2):
SIA 6 at TPE

Singapore 006 crashing into construction equipment on takeoff on the wrong runway during a 2000 typhoon still gives me chills, because I experienced the same takeoff on Singapore 006 TPE-LAX during a typhoon in 1996, minus the crash. Insane non-stop paparazzi lightning, hailstones pounding the aircraft, bouncing off the wings like marbles, zero visibility, and the captain still elected to go, gusts hitting the V stab and blowing the 744 side-to-side all the way down a very, very long, serpentine take-off roll. I remember thinking around V1 that no U.S. pilot would have considered it, but I had bought the ticket and so now I got to take the ride. So when I heard of the crash I flashed back hard to what's still my hairiest takeoff ever. Weird feeling.
 
CO953
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:25 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 19):
You surely mean 173, not 178. I've done some translating for its Wikipedia article, but somehow it didn't hop back into my brain. This was mind-boggling. McFly, are you home? Could you watch the fuel gauge please while the others do their landing gear troubleshooting? Ironically, the gear was down and locked - an unintentional gravity drop due to malfunction!

Agreed. For sheer WTF, for me UA178 (UAL DC-8 running out of gas and crashing into the trees near Portland, Oregon in 1978) is high up there. They just moseyed around until they ran out of gas. Reading the accident report, one is struck by a sense of dulled lassitude - almost like hypoxia.

[Edited 2015-12-02 22:33:52]
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:45 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 11):
Then, of course, you would have include the Aeroflot A310 fight, where the captain allowed his daughter and son to sit in the left seat and the situation gradually slipped out of their control. And we know how that ended - a truly tragic story.

Always hated this one because of the kids in the cockpit and them witnessing the whole thing. That poor kid that inadvertently disconnected the AP (IIRC). Chilling.

I also am haunted a bit when I read the transcript of the US/Air Midwest 5481, because the CVR picked up a young girl a couple of times saying "Daddy!" as they dove into the ground. Breaks my heart.

Quoting TFFIP (Reply 14):

Would you put Saudia 163 on your list (8/19/80) ? I don't know enough about it to judge only that everyone died yet the plane landed safely and taxied off the runway.

This one is perhaps one of the most bizarre accidents out there. 301 people die - and the plane DIDN'T crash.

-Dave
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747WanSui
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:58 am

Here's one: the Gulfstream crash at Bedford, MA which killed Lewis Katz. The report indicated that the flight crew almost never completed pre-flight checklists during their most recent takeoffs (more than 100 of them). When I noticed that, I thought, "How on earth do pilots get away with not completing such checklists?!"
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DocLightning
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 7:17 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugsQQKn0muQ

This one.  

I think the Tenerife accident is quite mind-boggling.
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WIederling
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:42 am

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 16):
The Challenger disaster is an interesting study. Similar to the Dc10 cargo door locking issue, the O-ring behabior in cold temperatures had been identified, but the info never made it to the people making the decisions.

Didn't the deciders just ignore the info ( dumb engineer, don't bother our circles! )?
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Brewfangrb
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:24 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 11):
I think that for me, the two worst would be AF 447. What I found so scary was that by the time they got down to FL100, the game was pretty much up; even the captain's arrival into the cockpit didn't avert disaster.

This is #1 on my list (Tennerife is a somewhat close #2, but it's mitigated by the weather conditions). But AF447 was just infuriating. Watching the Air Disasters episode on it and reading a good longform article on it in Vanity Fair I found myself going "Old Man Shouts at Cloud" repeatedly.

Absolutely frustrating that 1) the 1st officer was so overly preoccupied by going over the storm and 2) NO ONE--NOT A SINGLE PILOT could figure out "Hey, we're in a freaking stall!".

This will be my #1 for a very long time because while yes, the pitot tubes might have frozen, this crash wasn't really even "mind-bogglingly bad decisions AFTER a failure that exacerbated problems"...it was "you took a perfectly good airplane and flew it directly into the ocean". Atrocious and unforgivable.

Quoting WIederling (Reply 34):
Didn't the deciders just ignore the info ( dumb engineer, don't bother our circles! )?

There was a lot of "go" pressure because they had repeatedly delayed flight previously and if they hadn't gone that day, I think they would have been delayed a significant period of time for another flight window.

To add on to a prior mention above, I think I put EA 401 at #2. Highly experienced captain just ridiculously overwhelmed by a non-issue.
 
starrymarkb
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:58 am

This one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qnporof2q6Q

Guy buys helicopter and then doesn't wait for the instructor before taking off!
 
PlaneInsomniac
Posts: 418
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:10 pm

This one certainly comes to mind. A private jet crash in the middle of Mexico City killing several high ranking Mexican politicians:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mexico_City_plane_crash

Neither pilot was actually type-certified for the Learjet they were flying. They were unable to execute a normal landing and did not manage to maintain proper separation with a preceding 767 - their plane was then hit by wake turbulence and crashed. It is assumed that both were secretly hoping that the other one actually knew how to fly the plane. Their corrupt flight school was later found to have systematically issued fake documentation to candidates which had not actually fulfilled all requirements. Sadly, a fitting illustration on the state of the country.
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
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Faro
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:39 pm

AC 621 in 1970 has to be among the absolute worst.

DC-8-63 dropping straight down from 60 feet above the runway on the flare due to premature spoiler extension. Engine pod and bits of wing torn off but a go-around was attempted with tragic results.

No survivors...


Faro

[Edited 2015-12-03 04:44:13]
The chalice not my son
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:03 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 19):
No, I'm interested in the bizarre, weird and mind-boggling literature aviation investigations have to offer. For example, the Tenerife disaster was grisly in terms of deaths and injuries - but yet how it happened is explained easily.

Then the "Nigeria Airways 2120 Disaster" -- which saw burning bodies falling from the sky -- is just your ticket.

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/sh...isasters/under-pressure/802/141886
 
goosebayguy
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:12 pm

RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:35 pm

Quoting TFFIP (Reply 14):
ould you put Saudia 163 on your list (8/19/80) ? I don't know enough about it to judge only that everyone died yet the plane landed safely and taxied off the runway.

I worked at this airfield several years ago now. The story doing the rounds and its supposed to be the truth not the story reported is that there was a royal flight which delayed landing or any effort to evacuate. Everyone died because the King was flying in or out.

A large hole was dug to the NW of the airfield and the damaged aircraft buried. The tail though stuck out so was knocked flat and covered. Its still there apparently.
 
ThirtyEcho
Posts: 1411
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:22 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):
All of the reports (Air Asia, AF447, Colgan, etc., etc.) where a pilot holds the stick back for an extended period of time. I'm not a pilot, but is there ever a situation where that would be the right response to an issue? I just don't understand how that would be anyone's reaction to an unexpected event.

Well, its not the "right" response but it is a common response when a non-instrument rated pilot flies into instrument conditions. Ending up in a high speed spiral ("death spiral"), with a loss of attitude awareness, the pilot tries to arrest an overspeed condition by pulling back on the yoke. This only tightens the spiral, resulting in the pilot pulling more back pressure, thus tightening the spiral and increasing the speed. Truly frightening rates of descent develop, as well, leading the pilot to increase back pressure all the more. Pretty soon, the yoke is all the way back and stays that way.
As I recall, this happened in the JFK Jr. accident, where the rate of descent was estimated to have gone over 5,000fpm and the airspeed was pegged.
 
Grummancat
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:49 am

RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:46 am

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 16):
The Challenger disaster is an interesting study. Similar to the Dc10 cargo door locking issue, the O-ring behabior in cold temperatures had been identified, but the info never made it to the people making the decisions.

Oh believe me- there WERE people in position to make the decisions not to launch. They weren't the ultimate authorities, but they stood in the way of those authorities (Chief Administrator Graham for example) ever finding out about the problem. At least until it was far too late.
 
ABpositive
Posts: 179
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:12 am

Aeroflot 593 comes to mind as well.
First it was pilots putting kids in the seat at the controls and second pilots didn't let the autopilot take the plane out of the stall.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1933
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:37 am

The GP Express Beech C99 that killed both crew members when they botched an intentional barrel roll just after beginning a Part 135 check ride:

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.av...faf-898a7e9722c6&pgno=2&pgsize=200
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
jeb94
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:19 pm

RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:49 am

For me its Spanair 5022. A perfect example of the links of the chain all coming together. Ultimately it was pilot error but there was distractions and maintenance errors made. If just one thing was handled differently, 154 people don't die.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:49 am

I'm shocked that no one has mentioned MS990.

Not just for the 10 outta 10 creepiness factor of a pilot committing suicide (and IINM, still the worst such example in term of fatalities).... but also the abject negligence by MS in letting a pilot who was very likely to be reprimanded to the point of dismissal, fly!

And how, 16yrs later, they're still in abject denial to even the POSSIBILITY of what every other country involved has already agreed upon.

I'd ~never~ fly EgyptAir, as a result of how they handled this. Ever.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
kaneporta1
Posts: 728
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:59 am

Swisair 111 and Alaska 261. Especially combined with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbf1vbxsB2Y
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
 
bluejuice
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:55 am

RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:24 am

FX705

Not so much an accident as a really hair raising tale. Deadheading pilot attempts to hijack the plane and commit suicide. Despite being attacked with a hammer and horrifically injured, the three crew members managed to fight off the attacker and land the plane.

[Edited 2015-12-04 20:27:44]
Not biased against vacuum flush.
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
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RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:52 am

Any of the CFIT, wrong runway, too far down the runway, runway incursion, focussing on damned burned out lights, riding a stall for 3 minutes until the plane pancakes in....

Basically, most of the accidents where the pilot(s) didn't fly, (or sometimes drive), the plane first.

I was watching a bunch of windy landings on youtuba the other day and I saw two kinds of good pilots; the ones who made good landings on the stripes after a stabilized, (within reason), approach....and the other kind who couldn't get the plane settled down, or were high or drifting long, who hit the TOGA button and went around.

Both of those types have crews with good CRM skills, working as a team, delegating tasks, probably keeping a properly sterile cockpit, doing what needed to be done now.

Any time I see a perfectly good working plane landing halfway down a runway, having to jerk to a stop at the last second, I get peeved. They needlessly put a truckload of people in danger or needlessly scared them. Because of some mental lapse, they didn't feel like overshooting.

Those guys and gals deserve a slap. The ones who see an overshoot as the smart thing to do sometimes, who's egos aren't wrapped up in getting the plane on the ground first time, every time, are real pilots.

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 41):

Well, its not the "right" response but it is a common response when a non-instrument rated pilot flies into instrument conditions. Ending up in a high speed spiral ("death spiral"), with a loss of attitude awareness, the pilot tries to arrest an overspeed condition by pulling back on the yoke. This only tightens the spiral, resulting in the pilot pulling more back pressure, thus tightening the spiral and increasing the speed. Truly frightening rates of descent develop, as well, leading the pilot to increase back pressure all the more. Pretty soon, the yoke is all the way back and stays that way.
As I recall, this happened in the JFK Jr. accident, where the rate of descent was estimated to have gone over 5,000fpm and the airspeed was pegged.

Spiral dives can be sneaky lethal, especially at night....(though fun to practice in the day).
What the...?
 
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777Jet
Posts: 6977
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: Hair-rising Accident Investigation Reports

Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:57 am

Quoting kaneporta1 (Reply 47):
Alaska 261. Especially combined with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbf1v...xsB2Y

Alaska 261 is probably the most disturbing / upsetting to me.

I will never fly Alaska Airlines because of their role in this.
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