dcajet
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WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:45 am

A few weeks ago it was discussed on here that AR had begun to withdraw its 73G fleet, in favor of the 738, of which around 20 are in the fleet already and twenty more are scheduled to be delivered in 2016-17.

LV-CAM flew this week from EZE to MIA via CCS after being overhauled at AR's facilities in Buenos AIres; LV-CBG flew to the US a couple of weeks ago. Next in line are LV-CBS and LV-CCR.

It has long been rumoured that these would end up with Southwest, according to sources at AR. While for those four airframes I can't confirm that thsse specific examples will end up with WN, I can confirm that the following frames, all leased from AerCap will be joining the WN fleet as their leases with AR expire: LV-CPH. LV-CMK, LV-CSC, LV-CYO. LV-CXN, LV-CYO, LV-CVX, LV-CWL, LV-CYJ, LV-CYN & LV-CSI.

The first four frames are ex AR and ex EZ and date from 2000-01; the second batch which is confirmed to join WN are ex AR and ex Virgin Australia and date from 2001-2.

Regards,
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
n471wn
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:55 am

WN is like Delta in understanding the benefits of used aircraft---so good to see these birds fined new homes!!
 
dbo861
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:58 am

So that's at least another 11 73Gs going to WN, maybe more, not bad. When do the AerCap 73Gs start coming off lease?
 
airliner371
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:50 am

Quoting n471wn (Reply 1):
WN is like Delta in understanding the benefits of used aircraft---so good to see these birds fined new homes!!

Southwest has said that it's not worth getting brand new -700s when the MAX will be available soon so that's part of it.
 
N1120A
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:03 am

Quoting n471wn (Reply 1):
WN is like Delta in understanding the benefits of used aircraft---so good to see these birds fined new homes!!

WN's motives are a bit different. They have real growth needs, but don't want to use their slots on new -700s, preferring -800s.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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Spacepope
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:49 am

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 2):

Checking Skyliner today it looks like WN also is picking up ex-Transaero frames too.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
tomaheath
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:55 am

Are these additions or replacements?
 
dbo861
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:08 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 5):
Checking Skyliner today it looks like WN also is picking up ex-Transaero frames too.

How many? I seem to remember seeing this on the forum in the last couple months, but I forgot the number.
 
SXDFC
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:12 am

WN has been getting frames from a plethora of different airlines. From what it seems, these frames will likely accelerate -300 replacements. Although there are a few -800s on the secondhand market, they're still expensive to pick up on the secondhand market. N352SW "Lone Star One" is also likely to leave the fleet in 2016 as well.

For the reccord the 737MAX tail numbers will be N87**, and the first one will be N8701Q.
 
rta
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:47 am

Why does WN like 73Gs so much? Or are they just picking them up because thats what is available?
 
N1120A
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:52 am

Quoting rta (Reply 9):
Why does WN like 73Gs so much?

Because it serves them really well.

Quoting rta (Reply 9):
Or are they just picking them up because thats what is available?

They have growth needs and they are available at good prices.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
SXDFC
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:54 am

Quoting tomaheath (Reply 6):
Are these additions or replacements?

Likely to be replacements.

Quoting rta (Reply 9):
Why does WN like 73Gs so much? Or are they just picking them up because thats what is available?

Because the -800 on the second hand market is still expensive, at least to WN. WN does quite well with the -700 sized plane in their fleet, and will continue to do so with the many second hand frames entering the market.
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:32 am

Plus the 700 has better field performance than any of the 800's available on the second hand market. They need the performance for some the airports they fly into.
 
N1120A
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:12 am

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 12):
Plus the 700 has better field performance than any of the 800's available on the second hand market. They need the performance for some the airports they fly into.

They have so many -700s that performance likely isn't even a factor in this.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 11):
Likely to be replacements.

But replacements for -300s, not -700s.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:14 am

WN's current fleet consists of:

733 -- 119
735 -- 11
737 -- 467
738 -- 101

Total -- 698 aircraft with an additional 75 NG on order and 200 MAX aircraft on order and options on another 200 MAX aircraft.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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vhqpa
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:27 am

I wonder if WN are interested in the 2 circa. 2005 birds remaining in the Virgin Australia fleet which have been an oddball for the last couple of years.
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:34 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
They have so many -700s that performance likely isn't even a factor in this.

What about MDW? I don't think WN would want 800's without the short field performance package flying out of their MDW hub. The 700's are cheap, because other airines want to get rid of them, and they don't need any short field performance package to meet Southwest's requirements.
 
N1120A
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:42 am

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 16):
What about MDW? I don't think WN would want 800's without the short field performance package flying out of their MDW hub.

MDW's geographic location means that the -800 has enough performance to get anywhere that airport is going to send people.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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RayChuang
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:05 am

There's a good reason why WN is snapping up a lot of good-condition used 73G's: we forget they were the launch customer for this model (the first ones were delivered in late 1997, I believe) and as such has a LOT of experience in operating and maintaining this very specific 737NG model. That's why the ex-AR and Transaero 73G's are being refurbished into WN configuration.
 
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GCT64
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:14 am

Quoting dcajet (Thread starter):
LV-CBG flew to the US a couple of weeks ago.

LV-CBG was (is?) at PAE being prepped for WN
also going through there a couple of weeks ago:
XA-QAM of AM - becoming N7835A
VT-JGZ of 9W - becoming N7846A
OY-JTU of Jettime - becoming N7836A

WN have or are taking 5 ex-MA / ex-UN 737s EI-EUW, EUX, EUY, EUZ, ETX. Some or all of these have been through PAE already.
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:08 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
MDW's geographic location means that the -800 has enough performance to get anywhere that airport is going to send people.

   Remember that TZ used them to SJU on and off (configured 175Y, IIRC, just like WN's).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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FlyingJhawk
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:33 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 14):
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 14):
Total -- 698 aircraft with an additional 75 NG on order and 200 MAX aircraft on order and options on another 200 MAX aircraft.

That is almost a mind blowing number for one carrier.
 
MD80Nut
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:08 pm

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 16):
What about MDW? I don't think WN would want 800's without the short field performance package flying out of their MDW hub. The 700's are cheap, because other airines want to get rid of them, and they don't need any short field performance package to meet Southwest's requirements.

I've seen WN operate -800s from MDW, so the type is already capable of using that airport.

Cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
SWADawg
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:48 pm

The -800's that WN flies have the Short Field Performance package which allows them to fly these in and out of MDW with a full load of 175 and still make it out again. Most of the used -800's on the second hand market do not have the Short Field Performance package, therefore WN wouldn't be interested in these Aircraft.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
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GCT64
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:53 pm

Quoting MD80Nut (Reply 22):
I've seen WN operate -800s from MDW, so the type is already capable of using that airport.

Indeed, so far this morning, according to FR24, the following WN B738 have already departed from MDW:

N8668A to LAS
N8327A and N8605E to PHX
N8657B to DAL
N8326F to MCO
N8620H to ONT
N8325D to SEA
N8669B to LAX
N8314L to CUN

so they are pretty common as it's not yet 10am.
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:29 pm

Hopefully this means we will see the handful of 30+ year old 733s leave the WN fleet in the near future. It's amazing to me that WN has kept some of those frames airworthy this long...can't imagine the number of cycles on some of those old birds.
DH8A DH8B CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 E45 E70 E75 E90 D93 M88 319 320 321 333 343 712 732 733 734 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 77L 77W
 
rbavfan
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:58 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
800's without the short field performance package

SJU has a 10400 foot runway. Why would this comment have anything to do with MDW & short field performance need?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:01 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 26):
SJU has a 10400 foot runway. Why would this comment have anything to do with MDW & short field performance need?

Was I unclear before? TZ did MDW-SJU on 175-seat -800s on and off.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
wnflyguy
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:17 pm

From everything I'm hearing WN on track to add 65 used 700's in 2016/17 for 737-300/500 replacement.
In 2016/17 is rumored to be looking at used 737-800 also.
Buy July 2016 all 737-500 will be gone from the fleet.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
n471wn
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:23 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 14):
WN's current fleet consists of:

733 -- 119
735 -- 11
737 -- 467
738 -- 101

Actually only 461 700's are in service for a total of 691
 
INFINITI329
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:43 pm

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 23):
The -800's that WN flies have the Short Field Performance package

What does this package include?
 
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Spacepope
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:49 pm

Quoting Adipasquale (Reply 25):
Hopefully this means we will see the handful of 30+ year old 733s leave the WN fleet in the near future. It's amazing to me that WN has kept some of those frames airworthy this long...can't imagine the number of cycles on some of those old birds.

Just for fun, as of October this year N694SW has 96,947 hours and 67164 cycles.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
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77west
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:10 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 30):
What does this package include?

Increased spoiler deflection angle, sealed slats/flaps, two-position tailskid, amongst other aerodynamic tweaks.

Basically reduces your v speeds a bit on takeoff, and reduces landing rollout. I believe GOL was the first to get it.
77West - AW109S - BE90 - JS31 - B1900 - Q300 - ATR72 - DC9-30 - MD80 - B733 - A320 - B738 - A300-B4 - B773 - B77W
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:52 pm

WN has added approximately 80 used 737-700s to date (not including the 52 AirTran ships). 40 have entered service.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
UA444
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:53 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 31):
Just for fun, as of October this year N694SW has 96,947 hours and 67164 cycles.

That's nothing for a Dogulas but for a 737, send it to the scrapper.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting gr8slvrflt (Reply 33):

WN has added approximately 80 used 737-700s to date (not including the 52 AirTran ships). 40 have entered service.

I had no idea they'd added that many used frames. Geesh, they've added more used -700's than many airlines have entire fleets.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
irish
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:39 pm

The 800s are always weight restricted in the summer to SAN,SEA,PDX,LAX, and sometimes LAS. Bags fly free and lots of fright plus, always full flights.
 
Sooner787
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:45 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 31):
Just for fun, as of October this year N694SW has 96,947 hours and 67164 cycles.

And I'm sure those -300's have more than a few skin patches on them as well.
WN's original -300 is now on display at the Frontiers of Flight Museum, and
when you get up close to that jet, it's amazing to see how many skin patches
that frame has on it.   
 
Aeroflot001
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:01 pm

Quoting dcajet (Thread starter):
LV-CAM flew this week from EZE to MIA via CCS after being overhauled at AR's facilities in Buenos AIres; LV-CBG flew to the US a couple of weeks ago. Next in line are LV-CBS and LV-CCR.

I'm curious, who does the flying in this case? AR crew to MIA?
Do WN representatives or pilots have to go to EZE for this handovers?
AR is getting a new president with the new government assuming power next week, let's see what the future hold for them.

I imagine that the flights flew pax from EZE to CCS?
 
airliner371
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:01 pm

Is WN still on track to retire the -300 by 2020 or has that been moved up at all because of the used -700s?

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 11):

Hey, do you have an update on the heart livery painting?

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 28):
Buy July 2016 all 737-500 will be gone from the fleet.

Finally....
 
dcajet
Topic Author
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:35 am

Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 38):
I'm curious, who does the flying in this case? AR crew to MIA?
Do WN representatives or pilots have to go to EZE for this handovers?
AR is getting a new president with the new government assuming power next week, let's see what the future hold for them.

I imagine that the flights flew pax from EZE to CCS?

Neither AR or WN get involved directly with each other. AR returns the plane to the lessor, who in turn will modify it to WN's requirements and deliver it to WN or WN modifies the frame directly.

It would not have flown anything or anyone from EZE to CCS or MIA. The moment the plane landed on its last commercial service with AR that was it and was withdrawn from the fleet. Most likely its return flight to MIA and CCS was flown by crews belonging to the lessor, which I believe is AerCap.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:43 am

Quoting irish (Reply 36):
The 800s are always weight restricted in the summer to SAN,SEA,PDX,LAX, and sometimes LAS. Bags fly free and lots of fright plus, always full flights.

they were restricted in the winter due to the headwinds caused by the jet stream, but that hasn't been an issue with the exception of the first few -800 deliveries.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
SXDFC
Posts: 1972
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:05 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 39):
Hey, do you have an update on the heart livery painting?

I can do another update, yes.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 28):
In 2016/17 is rumored to be looking at used 737-800 also.

I thought I heard the same thing to, however they were still too expensive?
 
MaverickTTT
Posts: 153
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:11 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
MDW's geographic location means that the -800 has enough performance to get anywhere that airport is going to send people.
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 41):
they were restricted in the winter due to the headwinds caused by the jet stream, but that hasn't been an issue with the exception of the first few -800 deliveries.

Sure, they can get there...but, not always at capacity. They may have the short-field performance package, but they still suffer out of MDW in 175-pax configuration. Dispatch and the crews spend a lot of time and effort, right up to the moment of departure, to get the most accurate performance data. There were quite a few fuel stops in MCI this summer when temps were high at MDW, causing significant takeoff performance issues for the -800 fleet. Additionally, anytime MDW braking action is reported as "less-than-good", the -800's can't land at MDW due to a lack of landing performance data.

These situations impact ALL of the -800's in the WN fleet...not just "the first few deliveries".
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:39 am

Quoting MaverickTTT (Reply 43):
Additionally, anytime MDW braking action is reported as "less-than-good", the -800's can't land at MDW due to a lack of landing performance data.

Can you explain this a bit more? Why do they not have data for contaminated runways at MDW for the -800?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
freakyrat
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:23 pm

Actually I've flown out of MDW on a WN B738 with 174 other passengers plus crew and we departed RWY 22L for Dallas Love and go off the RWY with ease.
 
flightsimer
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:28 am

There are '99 vintage 737-800's for sale right now with a list price of 13.5 million. No clue on the hr/cycles...

[Edited 2015-12-06 18:54:41]
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:42 am

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 16):

What about MDW? I don't think WN would want 800's without the short field performance package flying out of their MDW hub.
Quoting SWADawg (Reply 23):
The -800's that WN flies have the Short Field Performance package which allows them to fly these in and out of MDW with a full load of 175 and still make it out again. Most of the used -800's on the second hand market do not have the Short Field Performance package, therefore WN wouldn't be interested in these Aircraft.
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 41):

they were restricted in the winter due to the headwinds caused by the jet stream, but that hasn't been an issue with the exception of the
Quoting MaverickTTT (Reply 43):

Sure, they can get there...but, not always at capacity. They may have the short-field performance package, but they still suffer out of MDW in 175-pax configuration. Dispatch and the crews spend a lot of time and effort, right up to the moment of departure, to get the most accurate performance data. There were quite a few fuel stops in MCI this summer when temps were high at MDW, causing significant takeoff performance issues for the -800 fleet. Additionally, anytime MDW braking action is reported as "less-than-good", the -800's can't land at MDW due to a lack of landing performance data.

These situations impact ALL of the -800's in the WN fleet...not just "the first few deliveries".

I am not sure where this is coming from, but ATA flew 2001-2004 vintage 737-800s from MDW in a 175 pax configuration with no short field performance package well before WN ever did and we had none of these so called issues.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
dmg626
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:59 am

SWA uses more restrictive performance data
 
luv2cattlecall
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RE: WN Scooping Up AR's 73G

Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:28 am

Quoting dmg626 (Reply 48):
SWA uses more restrictive performance data

Is there a particular advantage to this practice? Or is it some sort of a legacy software limitation?
.

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