SpaceshipDC10
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Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:49 am

Just heard on the radio that December 10 should be the day when first refugees will arrive by air at YUL & YYZ. From what I understand they'll be travelling from Jordania with about 200 passengers per flight. Which airline will be flying them? AC, TS, RJ, others?
 
LSZH34
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:58 pm

This is utter madness...

I guess RJ will take care of business. Don't they fly to Canada already?
 
G500
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:02 pm

Canada will take in about 20,000 refugees. You're telling me they will all come by air?
 
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yowza
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:18 pm

I suspect a good amount of the lift will be provided by Air Force aircraft - Canadian, Jordanian, Turkish - but with the core flying commercially and on charters. Details are scarce right now. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/flig...art-dec-10-document-says-1.3346228

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Thread starter):
Jordania

Jordan.

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 1):

This is utter madness...

What is?

Quoting G500 (Reply 2):
Canada will take in about 20,000 refugees. You're telling me they will all come by air?

I think the number committed to was 25,000. Realistically how else - in anything resembling an efficient manner - would you propose one gets from AMM to Top
 
Boeing744
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:19 pm

I know that Air Canada had said they could contribute with charters.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:35 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
Jordan.

Right.   

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 4):
I know that Air Canada had said they could contribute with charters.

Now that you mention this, it reminds me seeing this headline: http://globalnews.ca/news/2327941/ai...-can-help-airlift-syrian-refugees/
 
LSZH34
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:38 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
What is?

They should seek asylum in the next safest country which is certainly not Canada. Being a refugee is not a wish concert and the signal they are sending out will only increase humanitarian crisis and economic migrants. And will these 20'000 appear for their return flight? IMHO this is just a drop in the bucket. Cutting the discussion here, I guess this isn't a political thread otherwise this will have to be moved to Non-Av.
 
jalarner
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:56 pm

I don't have a link to it, but the government put out a quick bid for carriers to reply with rates, availability, etc. I believe this was due within a week so they could start moving people. I was wondering where they would fly to. Don't rule out CFB Trenton as the refugees from Kosovo went to the cadet camp there in 1999. I also hear that the cadet camp at Borden is also preparing. That airfield can't get much more than helicopters.
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:04 pm

Quoting jalarner (Reply 7):
I don't have a link to it, but the government put out a quick bid for carriers to reply with rates, availability, etc. I believe this was due within a week

In this CBC report, it is said that "interested air carriers to get in touch with the government by Dec.4", that is today.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/flig...art-dec-10-document-says-1.3346228
 
ek241yyz
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:42 pm

AC will be flying them from Beirut directly to YYZ on the charters with 763s last I checked.
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thekorean
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:46 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 6):

Turkey can't handle all the refugees but correct.



Where are Saudis? UAE?
 
jamincan
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:21 pm

YYZ has been dusting off the IFT to handle the incoming refugees.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...toronto-pearson-refugees-1.3346650
 
Birdwatching
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:16 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 6):
They should seek asylum in the next safest country which is certainly not Canada. Being a refugee is not a wish concert and the signal they are sending out will only increase humanitarian crisis and economic migrants.

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. These people have fled from their country which is unsafe to live in, because of a war that was caused not by themselves but mainly by other countries (and dating back decades). Now they all sit in Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey, Greece, Balkans, central Europe, northern Europe. I think it makes perfect sense if some other countries further away join in the effort and bring a couple thousand to safety. These are families with kids, as well as well educated middle class workers who could benefit other countries. Do you think they checked the "Canada" box on their "wish concert" form? Where do you get your news from?

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 6):
And will these 20'000 appear for their return flight?

No, as there will be no return flight. The refugees can't go back. Do you have any idea what Syria looks like today? How can they go back? Ideally, they will be assisted to make a new start in their new host country. They will have a hard time with the Canadian winters, but I'm sure they will feel welcome apart from that. In a couple of years or decades, maybe some of them will migrate back home, but most will call Canada home.

Soren   
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neromancer
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:37 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 3):
think the number committed to was 25,000. Realistically how else - in anything resembling an efficient manner - would you propose one gets from AMM to

That was the original election promise.

The plan today is to have 10,000 moved by the end of this year. Another 15,000 by the end of February and a grand total of 35,000 to 50,000 by the end of next year.

Refugees will be coming from Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey.

[Edited 2015-12-04 13:38:59]
 
rampbro
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:36 pm

It's one of the worst times of year for Cdn airlines to divert capacity away from holiday/sun travel, so I wouldn't be surprised to see foreign carriers doing a larger rather than smaller part in this airlift.

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 6):
They should seek asylum in the next safest country which is certainly not Canada.

Whatever man, as a Canadian, I look forward to their arrival and I know that in this country we will do our utmost to welcome these people, calm their minds and heal their wounds.

Quoting jamincan (Reply 11):

YYZ has been dusting off the IFT to handle the incoming refugees.

That is pretty damn sensible if you ask me. I wonder if they'll have some airport hotels at YYZ or YUL sequestered to house recent arrivals. I know that the old Novotel(?) next to YUL was a processing centre after the last big Haitian earthquake, however I think in that case there was considerably less security screening performed at the origin.
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:37 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 6):
They should seek asylum in the next safest country which is certainly not Canada. Being a refugee is not a wish concert and the signal they are sending out will only increase humanitarian crisis and economic migrants. And will these 20'000 appear for their return flight?

That is exactly what they have done that - they are registered with the UNHCR in the closest country. Canada has offered residence to them, and they are accepting the offer.

Moreover, Canada's policy is to offer permanent residence to refugees... they need to return if they do not want to.





Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 12):
These are families with kids, as well as well educated middle class workers who could benefit other countries. Do you think they checked the "Canada" box on their "wish concert" form?

  

Back to the question in the OP... news here was reporting that a tender had been issued for charter flights, but I would imagine that no decisions have been made yet.
 
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accargofra
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:47 pm

Quoting rampbro (Reply 14):
Whatever man, as a Canadian, I look forward to their arrival and I know that in this country we will do our utmost to welcome these people, calm their minds and heal their wounds.

thanks for that ! i know and feel that every time i am in Canada that canadians are open minded, friendly and always helpful. no more words needed!

and Soren - thanks for your comment (reply 12)

back to the thread:

Quoting ek241yyz (Reply 9):
AC will be flying them from Beirut directly to YYZ on the charters with 763s last I checked.

where did you get that info from ?

ACcargoFRA
 
Toni_
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:21 pm

Quoting rampbro (Reply 14):
Whatever man, as a Canadian, I look forward to their arrival and I know that in this country we will do our utmost to welcome these people, calm their minds and heal their wounds.

Much respect for that. Nice to read these kind of things in todays world.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:50 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 12):
Quoting rampbro (Reply 14):
as a Canadian, I look forward to their arrival and I know that in this country we will do our utmost to welcome these people, calm their minds and heal their wounds.

                       

Quoting accargofra (Reply 16):
where did you get that info from ?

Inside news?

Quoting Toni_ (Reply 17):
Much respect for that. Nice to read these kind of things in todays world.

So true, and so needed.
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:38 am

Quoting dashdrvr (Reply 19):
I wonder how they will secure the aircraft as well as the homeland to insure there are no sleeper terrorists in their midst.
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:42 am

Quoting dashdrvr (Reply 19):
I wonder how they will secure the aircraft as well as the homeland to insure there are no sleeper terrorists in their midst.

It's far more likely there is a terrorist on an American Airlines flight from CDG to JFK than on a high profile refugee flight.

If anything the events of the last months have taught us is that terrorists are where they want or feel they need to be. It is impossible to secure the borders against them.
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AR385
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:10 am

Quoting rampbro (Reply 14):
Whatever man, as a Canadian, I look forward to their arrival and I know that in this country we will do our utmost to welcome these people, calm their minds and heal their wounds.

Welcome to my RU list. That statement is probably the most intelligent and compassionate I´ve read regarding this issue on a.net Thank you.
 
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Adipasquale
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:15 am

Quoting rampbro (Reply 14):

Whatever man, as a Canadian, I look forward to their arrival and I know that in this country we will do our utmost to welcome these people, calm their minds and heal their wounds.
Quoting AR385 (Reply 22):
Welcome to my RU list. That statement is probably the most intelligent and compassionate I´ve read regarding this issue on a.net Thank you.

+1
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maartent
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:32 am

Quoting G500 (Reply 2):
Canada will take in about 20,000 refugees. You're telling me they will all come by air?

It may be quite a long walk
 
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mariner
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:52 am

Quoting dashdrvr (Reply 19):
I wonder how they will secure the aircraft as well as the homeland to insure there are no sleeper terrorists in their midst.

Many of the refugees in camps are already well-known to the authorities, have been vetted several times and are just waiting their turn until - eventually - some opportunity to resettle might open up, as now, when those selected will be vetted again.

The coming intakes in Australia and New Zealand (and, I assume, Canada) aren't just scooping up those who crossed the border into Europe, willy-nilly, that's a different issue, they are trying to clear the enormous backlog of refugees who have been waiting, heavily vetted and have been under consideration.

Can mistakes happen? Sure, no one can predict the future - what a child may become - but you could say that the host countries can take their pick from the cream of the crop, and aren't doing much more than clearing some of the known, enormous backlog.

In New Zealand, priorities will be given to families, especially with young children and - I assume - we will face the same issue that Canada faced - young single men were not originally not eligible. Mercifully, Canada changed its mind about single young - gay - men, who face extraordinary threat.

mariner

[Edited 2015-12-04 20:08:25]
aeternum nauta
 
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longhauler
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:16 am

Quoting flaps30 (Reply 27):
Don't come crying to us when they blow up your country.

When it comes to reducing terrorism on one's own turf, I doubt Canada (or any country for that matter) is going to look to the United States for advice.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
PEK777
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:45 am

Who is paying the bill for all these flights? Taxpayers Canada? Air Canada? Did USA somehow get stuck paying for it? If Saudi or UAE was smart they would lease some of those high density hooji planes to 86 these people to some country where patting yourself on the back is more important than logic and national security. Pretty cheap way to make the problem go away if you ask me. If you dont have to stock catering or clean the plane, how fast can you turn a 747 with a couple sets of air stairs?
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:59 am

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 25):
This is exactly the kind of limp wrist attitude these people prey on. Did you see what happened in California this week? Please by all means, welcome them to your neighborhood and see how it goes. Heal their wounds? With welfare checks and residency? Most of these 'refugees' are males between 20-35, cowards who probably thought nothing of leaving women and children behind. USA, get started on that wall - now you have to build it on both sides thanks to these PC self-congratulating Canadians.

Some interesting statements. I am a Canadian, it is interesting how those of you who are contributing to this negative view are not Canadian and have no skin in the game. Primarily we will be welcoming in families with Children, at risk woman and at risk men (men who are considered to be part of the LGBQ community). Not sure where you're getting your facts.

I am not PC, far from it in fact. But I do believe in HELPING follow people out. I am proud of my country on doing this, if the USA wants to build a wall, that is their issue. I doubt it would help.

Quoting flaps30 (Reply 27):
Canada is full of Liberals fools like yourself. Don't come crying to us when they blow up your country.

Considering Trump seems to be the front runner in the GOP leader race, a man wanting to create a list of all known muslims in America, I don't see were we pose much of a treat..

Quoting longhauler (Reply 28):
When it comes to reducing terrorism on one's own turf, I doubt Canada (or any country for that matter) is going to look to the United States for advice.


Awesome, very nice.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
rbavfan
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:26 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Thread starter):
Jordania

Do you mean Jordan? There is not a country called Jardania.
 
ek241yyz
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:54 am

Quoting accargofra (Reply 16):
where did you get that info from ?

at first it was inside news. but they have info about this on the interwebs. Dozens of articles say Beirut this Beirut that.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 32):
I wonder how many of them will use their iPhones to take trip report pics...

shots fired. ouu
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ElPistolero
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:05 am

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 25):

Its pretty clear you have no idea what you're talking about. Do your research, then come back. Here, this should help:

"Canada's focus will be on identifying vulnerable refugees who are a lower security risk such as women, complete families and persons identified as vulnerable due to membership in the LGBTI (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex) community. Each individual Syrian refugee that Canada welcomes will undergo a robust, multi-layered screening before departing for Canada, including the collection of biometrics."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/welcome/overview/security.asp

As for who pays for flights, the normal procedure is that refugees take out transportation loans that they have to pay back once they arrive in Canada. My understanding is that these loan requirements are being waived for Syrians. The majority of refugees will be privately sponsored - either by families or communities. Many of us are happy to foot the bill for helping people rebuild their lives with dignity.

We can't take them all, but if we can help the most vulnerable among them (single men or otherwise), we will. Furthermore, Canada has a long history of taking refugees. Colombia (17,381) was the largest source of refugees between 2004 and 2013. As you're probably aware, it hasn't made Canada any less safe despite the security issues that region faces. As it happens, China (15,344) was a close second. Frankly speaking, it's not the Canadian way to pander to lazy prejudices and stereotypes. We leave that to police states looking for excuses to engage in ethnic cleansing.

[Edited 2015-12-04 22:17:52]
 
robsaw
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:06 am

Quoting flaps30 (Reply 27):
Canada is full of Liberals fools like yourself. Don't come crying to us when they blow up your country.

Glad to see compassion is alive and well and the USA. Many thanks for the well-reasoned and balanced post.
 
P206
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:15 am

My working visa application was rejected 2 times for minor technicality after visiting Canada 2 times before as a paying tourist


Looks like some people will get in with no problem whatsoever

[Edited 2015-12-04 22:17:11]

[Edited 2015-12-04 22:22:39]
 
outbackair
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:42 am

Quoting robsaw (Reply 35):

Glad to see compassion is alive and well and the USA. Many thanks for the well-reasoned and balanced post.

Sarcasm can be lost on the narrow minded.

Some people forget that much of their current population are descendants of refugees who sailed west from Europe who built their country! How ironic.

I've known amazing refugees who have made amazing contributions to the host communities. But then they were made welcome, so that might make a difference.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:04 am

Quoting outbackair (Reply 37):
I've known amazing refugees who have made amazing contributions to the host communities. But then they were made welcome, so that might make a difference.

Some also come from places / cultures that are known to fit in better to new communities.

Others come from places / cultures known to bring their problems with them.

Quoting P206 (Reply 36):
My working visa application was rejected 2 times for minor technicality after visiting Canada 2 times before as a paying tourist


Looks like some people will get in with no problem whatsoever

I know a few good people trying to get in to Australia that this has happened to.

It saddens me to see, especially when people claiming to be refugees pay people smuggles thousands of dollars to get in through the back door and get funded by the tax payer.

Often these people are referred to as queue jumpers because they take the spot of a more legitimate refugee that has been waiting in a camp for a long time but doesn't have thousands of dollars to pay people smugglers.

These poor refugees also use their iPhones to film the way they are treated by the Navy and then upload the footage to their facebook status in which you can also find pictures of their overseas trips - the hard life of some refugees!

I really hope that you can get into Canada one day.
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mariner
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:45 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 38):
Others come from places / cultures known to bring their problems with them.


I wonder which places/cultures you have in mind?

Some individual refugees sometimes have problems, which is scarcely surprising given the devastating experiences some of them have had, such as the (multiple) rape victims from Somalia.

mariner

[Edited 2015-12-04 23:50:47]
aeternum nauta
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:59 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 26):
Mercifully, Canada changed its mind about single young - gay - men, who face extraordinary threat.

Was reading some terrible things on that earlier today. I can't even imagine what people are going through just for loving someone. The mental images (I didn't look at pictures) of people being dropped head first off of buildings was just horrifying.

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 29):
Who is paying the bill for all these flights? Taxpayers Canada? Air Canada? Did USA somehow get stuck paying for it? If Saudi or UAE was smart they would lease some of those high density hooji planes to 86 these people to some country where patting yourself on the back is more important than logic and national security

Please, just stop.

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 30):
Some interesting statements. I am a Canadian, it is interesting how those of you who are contributing to this negative view are not Canadian and have no skin in the game.

To be fair, you really don't know where someone here is from by their flag or status - I think a lot of people either make it up or choose a birthplace but not a current residence, etc. Frankly, I think some people come here for the sole purpose of causing problems.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
LSZH34
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:37 am

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 30):
it is interesting how those of you who are contributing to this negative view are not Canadian and have no skin in the game.

And since you have barely been affected by the refugee crisis, you have no skin in the game either. You can judge me as much as you want, but if we in Switzerland, a signficantly smaller country than Canada, have a netto immigration of 80'000 people per year, you'd probably change your views on this aswell. Ask the Germans, the French, the Brits, everyone from the Balkan... 20'000 people is nothing compared to what Europe has to deal with. Hats off to the Canadians trying to help, but the past has shown this will only increase the flood of economic migrants.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:15 am

Quoting thekorean (Reply 10):
Where are Saudis? UAE?

Creating the mess by "privately" funding ISIS and others !

With a very disappointing approach by Erdogan in Ankara at the same time.

And the Sunni moslem nationals in Pakistan also contributing.

The West seriously miss-calculated the effects of the so called Arab spring.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:51 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 26):
Mercifully, Canada changed its mind about single young - gay - men, who face extraordinary threat.

This is for the best, indeed.

Quoting flaps30 (Reply 27):
Canada is full of Liberals fools like yourself.

First, you quoted the wrong person. Secondly, without any hesitation could I make his words mine.

Quoting flaps30 (Reply 27):
Don't come crying to us when they blow up your country.

You sound like you are talking about yourself and your country. For the record, you have, and by far, more chances to die in your country because a white supremacist or a perturbed person from within your country shot at you than from an outside terrorist.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 28):
When it comes to reducing terrorism on one's own turf, I doubt Canada (or any country for that matter) is going to look to the United States for advice.

Amen to that.

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 30):
Awesome, very nice.

  

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 31):
Do you mean Jordan? There is not a country called Jardania.

Yes, that's what I meant. It was already pointed up yesterday at the beginning of the thread.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 42):
The West seriously miss-calculated the effects of the so called Arab spring.

Was it really possible to calculate it accurately?


At least now I know that AC is going to transport refugees from BEY.
 
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:56 am

The OP asked a very interesting question about some very interesting aircraft movements to be expected in the comming weeks. but yet again this thread has turned into a rant & rave from members with some very right wing , narrowminded & ill informed views. Can we not simply stick to aviation , which is what this platform is for. time for a couple of Mods in the US to get out of bed (due to the timedifference) and move this thread to ´non av´. to me this is a real shame, again - the OP asked an interesting question for us avgeeks, yet the thread has once again been hijacked by right wing opinionating, as so many Posts & threads in the past! I will suggest each of These Posts for deleation now, perhaps we can finally return t discussing the wonderful world of aviation!
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TheFlyingDisk
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:33 am

MH has a spare A380 available for charters - whoever's paying should really take a look into it.
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LSZH34
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:40 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 44):

1. To be honest this is not really a civil aviation topic but a political one and the title also intends that.

2. Since when is being pro right-wing bad? If you think the right has no place in a parliament then you need some lessons in democracy.

3. ill informed views? Go watch some real footage what these people are capable of. Hungarian border rioting, using children as shields to manipulate the border patrol, self harm because you are not a genuine refugee and then blame it on the Europeans, Internet is slow, food is bad, harrassing people.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:49 pm

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 45):
MH has a spare A380 available for charters - whoever's paying should really take a look into it.

I don't know whether the Canadian government has asked Canadian airlines only or not. However, they may prefer to deal with smaller numbers of people per flights than an A380. Less pressure and less stress for everyone involved.
 
Toni_
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:23 pm

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...s-to-fly-syrian-refugees-to-canada

"Enerjet, Canada’s youngest charter airline based in Calgary, has contacted federal immigration officials in hopes of using both of its Boeing 737, 148-seater planes to bring refugees here. “We are aware of the government’s promise to relocate 25,000 refugees, and we know that will involve an incredible amount of travel,” said Darcy Morgan, chief commercial officer with Enerjet. “We can fly anywhere in the world, and we know it’s important to do the right thing.
These are innocent people who are victims of war and terror, and they deserve to leave and lead an innocent life.”


So Enerjet seem to be very keen to help out. That's gonna be quite some fuel stops with their 737s.

And AC apparently announced the same statement earlier in november: http://www.cp24.com/news/air-canada-...rian-refugees-to-country-1.2650079

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 46):
3. ill informed views? Go watch some real footage what these people are capable of. Hungarian border rioting, using children as shields to manipulate the border patrol, self harm because you are not a genuine refugee and then blame it on the Europeans, Internet is slow, food is bad, harrassing people.

Instead of forming a judgment of a large group of people by watching footages on youtube, why not go and talk to real refugees first and then come up with well-based, broader scaled and better informed perspectives on the matter? Cause you see, the majority of the people we are talking about aren't being filmed for the simple fact of their story not being news worthy enough. What sells are footages of a dead boy on a beach and rioting, angry people at an Hungarian border. I'm not here to tell you that they're all good. Heck, you can let the law of averages loose on that where human society will always have a share of nutters.

Sadly this is how the news works. It allows people to think in certain ways much quicker. And unfortunately it also causes a huge grey middle area to be completely ignored. An area where families like these come from:
(Immigration Minister John McCallum chats with members of a Syrian refugee family being interviewed by authorities at a refugee processing centre in Amman, Jordan. CBC News )
 
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:41 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 46):
3. ill informed views? Go watch some real footage what these people are capable of. Hungarian border rioting, using children as shields to manipulate the border patrol, self harm because you are not a genuine refugee and then blame it on the Europeans, Internet is slow, food is bad, harrassing people.

yeah well, the swiss do have their opinions of course (and to Quote Germany - in your previous post - with an intake of over 1MIO sofar THIS YEAR next to GB and the Balkans adds Insult to injury) , but I refuse to hijack the thread for it! want to discuss this, feel free to PM me!



Quoting Toni_ (Reply 48):
"Enerjet, Canada’s youngest charter airline based in Calgary

good on them, yes - routes would be long/Multi stops, but then again, Miami Air thrived & built their Business model on this sort of thing with 738´s , so good on Enerjet and their efforts!
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:49 pm

Quoting Toni_ (Reply 48):
That's gonna be quite some fuel stops with their 737s.

This is what can be found on their site about their -700s.



Quote:
Range: 3,440 nautical miles (6,370 km)



I guess they could fly BEY-KEF-YYZ for instance, that is 2,776nm & 2258nm respectively per gcmap.com, so probably doable.

http://www.enerjet.ca/services.html
 
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longhauler
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:58 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 32):
I wonder how many of them will use their iPhones to take trip report pics...

I know you meant this as a joke, and I did chuckle, but it's not far off the mark.

When you look at pictures of these people, they don't "look" all that different from you or me. They are dressed in jeans, polo shirts, running shoes, etc. These are people just like you and me, that probably two years ago had a life just like you and me ... and for reasons beyond their control, has had it ripped away from them. They just want a life again ...

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 41):
And since you have barely been affected by the refugee crisis, you have no skin in the game either. You can judge me as much as you want, but if we in Switzerland, a signficantly smaller country than Canada, have a netto immigration of 80'000 people per year

"Barely affected"? Canada allows over 100,000 immigrants a year, most of them on a refugee status. This announcement was in addition to that normal allotment.

While I am not a big fan of Justin, on this point, I am full agreement.

But back to the point of the OP. AC has offered to carry refugees on separate dedicated flights. Internally, they have asked for volunteers as over the next few months we are running at close to maximum capacity with regard to crewing. These "volunteers" will be paid, but they will go beyond their contract maximums but stay within CARS.

Yes, I have volunteered. I have a friend at TS, and that request for "volunteers" has been made there as well. Other than the Armed Forces, I see no other long range transport aircraft available in Canada. I am sure my friends at WS would volunteer as well (it's a Canadian thing), but they are having a rough grind getting their B767s in the air.
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ElPistolero
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:30 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 41):

Geography helps us, no doubt, but we have plenty of skin in the game. With citizens coming from all over the world, there is always a case for doing more wherever we can that we can't just shrug off, be it Haiti or Vietnam. In addition to these 25,000 refugees, we take in about 26,000 refugees annually. And our overall intake of regular immigrants (including high skilled economic immigrants) is in the ~250,000 range.

And before you get on another moral high horse, please remember that the money from the regime that started this mess was only too welcome in a certain country's banks. Few countries profit from this type of refugee-creating governance more. Maybe best to use some of that profit to cover the human cost of generating those profits, eh?

Quoting P206 (Reply 36):

A refugee is as likely to get his/her refugee visa rejected on a minor technicality as you are. In both cases, if it's a minor technicality, one can reapply. That said, if one can't fill out forms properly, Canada can be a difficult place to find employment.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 51):

The Rouge 767s would be handy here. Any thought of sending the 777 HD. I expect non-stop flights will be preferred due to issues associated with landing planes full of refugees in third countries. Will it be done on cost-recovery basis?
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Which Airline Transporting Refugees To YUL & YYZ?

Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:37 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 38):
I know a few good people trying to get in to Australia that this has happened to.

It saddens me to see, especially when people claiming to be refugees pay people smuggles thousands of dollars to get in through the back door and get funded by the tax payer.
Quoting longhauler (Reply 51):
While I am not a big fan of Justin, on this point, I am full agreement.


I think that longhauler makes the essential point: Canadians are overwhelmenginly in support of accepting refugees, and we will continue to do so. It has served us well, in the past, and these people will be welcomed.


If our friends in other countries disagree, that is their prerogative. But I would rather live here, and this is one reason why.


Back to the topic again:

Some insight into the procurement process... The following is straight from the Government of Canada web site (buyandsell.gc.ca)

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/tender-notice/PW-15-00711028


"The Government of Canada is seeking Letters of Interest from interested Canadian air carriers that have the capacity, capability and availability to provide air transportation in the form of chartered aircraft of a minimum of 200 seats capable to perform direct flights between Adana / Gaziantep, Turkey and Amman, Jordan and Toronto Pearson Airport / Montréal Trudeau Airport. ...

The purpose of this posting is to generate a list of possible Canadian suppliers that would be interested in being considered by International Organization for Migration (IOM), international organization to coordinate travel logistics of Syrian refugees as identified in the requirements described below.

The list will be provided to IOM, for consideration, as Canadian suppliers to solicit for services identified in the requirements. Please provide availability, for each month, until end March 2016.

Requirements

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC) requires air transportation services to move to Canada, approximately 10,000 refugees during December 2015 and approximately 15,000 refugees early 2016. The number of people to be transported is scalable and the exact schedule (days and times) are yet to be confirmed. First day of transportation is planned to be December 10, 2015. Transportation is anticipated to be required until February 29, 2016, but may be required later."


Another tender is seeking charter services form YYZ/YUL to various destinations within Canada (to be determined in the future):

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/procurement-data/tender-notice/PW-15-00711029

posted Dec 1, expired Dec 4.


The process of organizing crews and aircraft (described by Longhauler, above) is likely part of the airlines organizing their bids.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 51):
I see no other long range transport aircraft available in Canada. I am sure my friends at WS would volunteer as well (it's a Canadian thing), but they are having a rough grind getting their B767s in the air.

Does it have to be non-stop? As noted above, charter flights could be arranged with fuel stops.

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