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Coal
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SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL/ADL, Upgauge BNE

Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:45 pm

http://www.ausbt.com.au/singapore-ai... ... me-flipper

Australian Business Traveler reporting that SQ will:

- Go 5 daily SIN - SYD year round (currently it's 5 daily in the summer months only, while the rest of the year it's 4 - 5 daily depending on the day of the week)
- Increase in capacity on SIN - MEL, though article is unclear on whether it will be an upgauge (A380) or an increase in number of flights
- BNE to get one flight upgauged from A333 to 777, although article is unclear on which 777 type. Could be a 77W, or a refurbed 77E or 773 (I believe some of the 77Es and 773s have the 2007 vintage longhaul J seat)
Last edited by SQ22 on Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Threads merged
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
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yellowtail
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:00 pm

SQ seeing traffic growth? Maybe some folks avoiding the gulf hubs and the QF/EK alliance and going to Europe via SIN now?
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infinit
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:03 am

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 1):

SQ seeing traffic growth? Maybe some folks avoiding the gulf hubs and the QF/EK alliance and going to Europe via SIN now?

The kangaroo routes have always been SQ's strength.
But yeah, this slight capacity increase suggests SQ is able to fight back against the growing ME3 presence on the routes even with the QF partnership. Another contributing factor is probably how SQ's neighbours MH and TG aren't doing too well now
 
Motorhussy
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:20 am

Quoting infinit (Reply 2):
But yeah, this slight capacity increase suggests SQ is able to fight back against the growing ME3 presence on the routes even with the QF partnership. Another contributing factor is probably how SQ's neighbours MH and TG aren't doing too well now

I'm sure SQ's strong relationship with NZ and VA is helping consolidate a brighter future on the above routes.
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behramjee
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:34 am

I feel that the cut backs of MH in Europe in particular has played a key part in this decision of SQ to further consolidate their position in Australia !

Amongst all the major SE Asian carriers I feel that they are the only ones whom have not lost a lot of ground versus the ME3 on the Kangaroo route where as TG MH CX has especially out of mainland Europe.
 
EMAman
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:36 am

Recent events will not do TG reputation any good.
 
Sydscott
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:39 am

Quoting infinit (Reply 2):
But yeah, this slight capacity increase suggests SQ is able to fight back against the growing ME3 presence on the routes even with the QF partnership. Another contributing factor is probably how SQ's neighbours MH and TG aren't doing too well now

There are a number of factors at play but principally SQ has successfully positioned itself as the best alternative to the Middle Eastern Carriers due to:

- MH re-structure and downsizing;
- Thai holding capacity at basically current levels and more focusing on more attractive markets than Australia;
- The inability of CX to expand frequencies due to the current bilateral limits.

All of these are in SQ's favour along with their history of being one of the largest foreign carriers into Australia.
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:11 am

The quotes from SQ are rather hesitant and non-committal. Regarding MEL-SIN, 2016 is “when we should look at adding another flight or upgrading the aircraft.” With TZ starting SIN-MEL and EK upgrading SIN-MEL to A380, there's a fair bit of extra capacity already.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
Amongst all the major SE Asian carriers I feel that they are the only ones whom have not lost a lot of ground versus the ME3 on the Kangaroo route where as TG MH CX has especially out of mainland Europe.

They may not have lost ground but their share of the kangaroo route continues to shrink. ME3 are growing faster in that market than SQ are.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 6):
SQ has successfully positioned itself as the best alternative to the Middle Eastern Carriers due to:
The inability of CX to expand frequencies due to the current bilateral limits.

This is probably a key factor. CX's restricted capacity to Australia will mean they need to chase higher yielding traffic (like China/HK/Taiwan) instead of lower yielding kangaroo route pax.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:03 am

The Kangaroo Route is becoming increasingly less relevant to SQ, it is still a major source of business for them on their Australian routes, but isn't accounting for very much growth. There is a lot of latent loyalty to SQ on the Kangaroo Route, but the ME3 are absorbing almost all growth in the market. Where SQ is going massively year on year is Australia-Asia. India-Australia for example is a massive market for them, one which is growing rapidly and where the ME3 can't compete efficiently due to their hubs being too far west.
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aryonoco
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:26 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 8):
Where SQ is going massively year on year is Australia-Asia. India-Australia for example is a massive market for them

Indeed, I've seen many colleagues of mine travel to India on SQ in the past year. I was actually surprised, I thought EK would be a bigger player in the Australia-India market.

The fact that flying the ME3 you have to backtrack to reach most of Asia, even South Asia, doesn't work in their favour. The ME3 are absolutely dominating the Kangaroo route, but that still leaves a lot of Australia-Asia traffic for SQ to play with.
 
Sydscott
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:01 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 8):
Where SQ is going massively year on year is Australia-Asia. India-Australia for example is a massive market for them, one which is growing rapidly and where the ME3 can't compete efficiently due to their hubs being too far west.

Funny how that is working out for both Qantas and SQ. All of a sudden the appearance of the ME3 on the Kangaroo route and the re-timing and re-focus of flights onto Asia turns out to be a boon for both of them. The J/V with LH should also assist SQ maintain the traffic that it has going to Europe.

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 9):
The fact that flying the ME3 you have to backtrack to reach most of Asia, even South Asia, doesn't work in their favour. The ME3 are absolutely dominating the Kangaroo route, but that still leaves a lot of Australia-Asia traffic for SQ to play with.

Indeed. One of the main reasons I can see potential in a QF/MH tie-up is the ability for QF to offer a full service option to multiple Indian cities via KUL rather than the limited options they have now via SIN.
 
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Coal
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:24 am

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 9):
Indeed, I've seen many colleagues of mine travel to India on SQ in the past year. I was actually surprised, I thought EK would be a bigger player in the Australia-India market.

Not surprising. It makes much more sense to fly via SIN than DXB

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=syd-sin-mel,+del-sin-bom,+syd-dxb-mel,+del-dxb-bom&MS=wls&MR=900&MX=720x360&PM=*

Not to mention AI's dismal schedule to Australia.

SQ / MI fly to the following cities in India:

1) Ahmedabad
2) Bangalore
3) Chennai
4) Delhi
5) Kolkata
6) Mumbai
7) Coimbatore
8) Hyderabad
9) Kochi
10) Thiruvananthapuram
11) Visakhapatnam

SQ also previously flew to Amritsar.

EK fly to the following cities in India:

1) Ahmedabad
2) Bangalore
3) Chennai
4) Delhi
5) Hyderabad
6) Kochi
7) Kolkata
8) Kozhikode
9) Mumbai
10) Thiruvananthapuram

Though probably EK have much higher frequencies (which I have not researched).

[Edited 2015-12-06 19:29:34]
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
aryonoco
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:33 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 10):
One of the main reasons I can see potential in a QF/MH tie-up is the ability for QF to offer a full service option to multiple Indian cities via KUL rather than the limited options they have now via SIN.

I see a lot of potential for that as well.

Out of interest, how many Indian cities does MH fly to?
 
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:51 am

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 12):
Out of interest, how many Indian cities does MH fly to?

Delhi, Hyderabad, Mumbai, Bengaluru and Chennai.
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Sydscott
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:14 am

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 12):

Out of interest, how many Indian cities does MH fly to?
Quoting motorhussy (Reply 13):
Delhi, Hyderabad, Mumbai, Bengaluru and Chennai.

Yeah the 5 big ones are covered. At the moment the most direct path into India on QF is via Singapore and the QF codeshares only cover Delhi and Mumbai. So depending on what the long term plans are for Singapore there could be an opportunity to switch some of that connecting traffic into KUL to access more destinations.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:10 am

Quoting qfvhoqa (Reply 7):
The quotes from SQ are rather hesitant and non-committal. Regarding MEL-SIN, 2016 is “when we should look at adding another flight or upgrading the aircraft.” With TZ starting SIN-MEL and EK upgrading SIN-MEL to A380, there's a fair bit of extra capacity already.

Many of the quotes do sound very non-committal.

The only thing they really were certain on was adding a better product into BNE but it still had no real timeframe.

SYD and MEL increases seem to be on their radar but that's about it.
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:38 am

Im surprised neither SQ or EK fly to CNS? I was just there a couple weeks ago and the amount of foreign tourists there were massive. There's also been a lot of financial investments made in CNS by the Chinese.
 
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:24 am

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 16):
Im surprised neither SQ or EK fly to CNS? I was just there a couple weeks ago and the amount of foreign tourists there were massive. There's also been a lot of financial investments made in CNS by the Chinese.

Silkair is / was flying into Cairns on behalf of the Singapore Airline Group. As for the Chinese investment, CX provides a good way for Chinese pax to get straight into Cairns. An EK 77W is way too much plane for the market.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:33 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 17):
Silkair is / was flying into Cairns on behalf of the Singapore Airline Group. As for the Chinese investment, CX provides a good way for Chinese pax to get straight into Cairns. An EK 77W is way too much plane for the market.

Cairns has a fair amount of volume but yields would not be ideal.
 
AA100
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:57 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):

I disagree. Whilst CX has been limited by its ability to grow in Australia due to bilaterals, it is still a very large player in the Australia market. Despite the inability to currently grow frequencies, in the last year, CX too has grown in Australia replacing 2 A330 with 77W flights on the SYD route. It is rumoured that more 77Ws and A350s will be used to help expand Australia by seat number.

HKG is just as attractive as SIN as a stop over and transit hub. CX, unlike any SE Asian carrier (The Chinese carriers are expanding too) is the only one currently aggressively expanding into Europe at the moment. In the last year and months services have been added to: MAN, ZRH and DUS, whilst MAD has been announced and LHR is now up to 5x daily 77W in the last couple of years. Similarly there has been a big expansion of capacity in Europe through the swapping of A340 for 77W on routes to FCO, AMS, and 1 of the CDG flights. This is a huge expansion in my opinion.

This does not reflect CX as a weak player nor being adversely effected by the ME3. Also, this European expansion will help direct growth for its Australian services.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:06 am

CX are at a disadvantage due to access issues into the main Australian airports, but I agree there's still capacity growth they can achieve even with the current limitations.

MEL will likely get the 77W next to upgauge a current A333 but we will see when that eventuates.
 
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Coal
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:23 am

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 16):
Im surprised neither SQ or EK fly to CNS?

MI (subsidiary of SQ) flies to CNS once per week from SIN.

FWIW, MI also flies daily to DRW.
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:31 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 21):

MI (subsidiary of SQ) flies to CNS once per week from SIN.

FWIW, MI also flies daily to DRW.

Interesting. Wouldn't have guessed there was a larger market to DRW than CNS.
 
Bluebird191
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:04 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 18):
Cairns has a fair amount of volume but yields would not be ideal.

Hence why the only international flight ex CNS on a QF branded flight is to POM, although admittedly it is QFLink and is a Q400. I'll argue that it's technically Sunstate as the operating carrier, operating for QFLink, but still, it is essentially a QF flight as it carries their flight number. Which is why, JQ, as a QF subsidiary, does most of the groups international flying from CNS - to DPS, NRT and KIX.

Quoting Coal (Thread starter):
- BNE to get one flight upgauged from A333 to 777, although article is unclear on which 777 type. Could be a 77W, or a refurbed 77E or 773 (I believe some of the 77Es and 773s have the 2007 vintage longhaul J seat)

Would need to be a refurbed 772 or 77E, assuming the 772's are getting refurbed? SQ do have a 77E config the same as the A333's or close to it - A333 with 30J/255Y, and the 77E have 2 configs - 30J255Y and 26J/245Y. I'm not sure off the top of my head which of these 2 configs has the updated biz seating, but could well be th 26J setup?
 
Motorhussy
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:22 am

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 22):
Interesting. Wouldn't have guessed there was a larger market to DRW than CNS.

Cairns is the gateway to the Great Barrier Reef and Daintree Rainforest. Philippine Airlines have just started flights to CNS too and then on to AKL.
come visit the south pacific
 
qf15
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:23 am

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 22):
MI (subsidiary of SQ) flies to CNS once per week from SIN.

FWIW, MI also flies daily to DRW.

Interesting. Wouldn't have guessed there was a larger market to DRW than CNS.

Silkair is 3 weekly to CNS, one is nonstop both ways, the other two are SIN-DRW-CNS-SIN. While DRW has 4x weekly nonstop both ways.
 
justbala
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:37 am

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 23):
Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 18):
Cairns has a fair amount of volume but yields would not be ideal.

Hence why the only international flight ex CNS on a QF branded flight is to POM, although admittedly it is QFLink and is a Q400. I'll argue that it's technically Sunstate as the operating carrier, operating for QFLink, but still, it is essentially a QF flight as it carries their flight number. Which is why, JQ, as a QF subsidiary, does most of the groups international flying from CNS - to DPS, NRT and KIX.

Doesnt CX do a HKG-BNE-CNS-HKG triangular route?!
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anplatinum
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:16 am

SQ seem to be consistently undercutting QF/EK prices from MEL/SYD to the European destinations that SQ serve.

There was a time when SQ could command a premium on the kangaroo route.

[Edited 2015-12-07 03:18:25]
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:16 am

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 22):

There isn't, but DRW benefits from being closer to Asia than CNS. It's within narrowbody range of SE Asia, CNS not so much.

Quoting justbala (Reply 26):

It's now operated as a tag, HKG-CNS-BNE-CNS-HKG.
 
Thai77w
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:27 pm

From what I've heard (and been told) Some 77E's will be refurbished with the new lie flat J and I assume new/recovered seats in Y with upgraded PTV.

Passenger wise will be an upgrade not so sure if it's an up gauge  
Aircraft types I've been on: PA31,Q300,AT75,AT76,717,733,738,739ER,763,772,77E,773,77W,788,789,744,319,320,332,333,346,359,380
 
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Coal
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:27 pm

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 22):
Wouldn't have guessed there was a larger market to DRW than CNS.

DRW also acts as a gateway to some major mines in the NT. I personally have flown into DRW and then transferred to a B1900 to one of the mines in the region.
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
AngMoh
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:45 pm

Quoting thai77w (Reply 29):
From what I've heard (and been told) Some 77E's will be refurbished with the new lie flat J and I assume new/recovered seats in Y with upgraded PTV.

Most of them, 9 out of 12, have been refurbished over the last 3 years. They are about to be replaced by A350s so I think it is highly doubtful that any more will be converted.
From the 772s, 9 out of 11 have been refurbished. All remaining 7 773s have also been refurbished.

I believe they will receive 6 A350s next year.
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airbazar
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:42 pm

Lost in all of this discussion is the fact that the O&D traffic between SIN and Australia is massive in its own right, and SQ is likely to get some of it despite increased pressure from LCC's.
 
ytz
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:22 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 11):
Not surprising. It makes much more sense to fly via SIN than DXB

SIN is the eastern version of the ME3 when it comes to India. Doesn't help that AI committed an own goal by deciding to operate its Australian flights from DEL instead of somewhere in southern India (BLR or MAA).
 
Bluebird191
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:37 pm

Quoting justbala (Reply 26):
Doesn't CX do a HKG-BNE-CNS-HKG triangular route?

Was specifically talking about the Qantas group - just QF and JQ. Apart from being in OW with some other limited business dealings, CX and QF don't have the best business relationship and are unlikely to get too close to each other for any major business dealings.
 
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Coal
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:40 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 32):
Lost in all of this discussion is the fact that the O&D traffic between SIN and Australia is massive in its own right, and SQ is likely to get some of it despite increased pressure from LCC's.

  

Agreed. There is a very large Australian expat community in Singapore, and many Australian corporates with large offices in Singapore, such as Rio Tinto, BHP Billiton, South32, ANZ bank, Macquarie bank, etc.
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:24 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
I feel that the cut backs of MH in Europe in particular has played a key part in this decision of SQ to further consolidate their position in Australia !

MH aligning with EK opens up opportunities for SQ.

The question is, how will TG solve their issues? If they don't solve them soon, never mind, it won't matter. But I would expect them to partner with a ME3 and SQ able to grab some 'spill over' traffic.

Quoting Coal (Reply 11):
Not surprising. It makes much more sense to fly via SIN than DXB

India to many places is begging for a hub in MAA. Knowing the GoI, they'll tax it so much it will end up in Colombo Sri Lanka.

Lightsaber
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jetblue1965
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:29 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 36):

India to many places is begging for a hub in MAA

Geographically yes, but in terms of O&D and yield, is a MAA hub really that smart ? I'm to a point to argue if one really wants a Southern Indian hub, BLR might be the best bet, even if it's not coastal.
 
Sydscott
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:37 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 35):
such as Rio Tinto, BHP Billiton, South32, ANZ bank, Macquarie bank, etc.

All those dodgey marketing hubs the ATO is going after.  
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:23 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 35):
Agreed. There is a very large Australian expat community in Singapore, and many Australian corporates with large offices in Singapore, such as Rio Tinto, BHP Billiton, South32, ANZ bank, Macquarie bank, etc.
Quoting Sydscott (Reply 38):
All those dodgey marketing hubs the ATO is going after.

Correct. Whether or not that same level of demand will be there once the ATO does finally find a way to close some tax loopholes will be interesting to see  
 
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Coal
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:08 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 38):
All those dodgey marketing hubs the ATO is going after.
Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 39):
Correct. Whether or not that same level of demand will be there once the ATO does finally find a way to close some tax loopholes will be interesting to see

I think we will see those offices stay in Singapore for a long time to come. Most of the mining and commodity traders do all their business through their Swiss subsidiaries in Zug or Baar, just outside Zurich. They just happen to have a physical presence in Singapore.
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
infinit
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:14 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 32):
Lost in all of this discussion is the fact that the O&D traffic between SIN and Australia is massive in its own right, and SQ is likely to get some of it despite increased pressure from LCC's.
Quoting Coal (Reply 35):
Agreed. There is a very large Australian expat community in Singapore, and many Australian corporates with large offices in Singapore, such as Rio Tinto, BHP Billiton, South32, ANZ bank, Macquarie bank, etc.

That's true. And not just expats. There is a very big Australian community here as are Singaporeans in Australia. There are many Australian families in my neighbourhood
 
Sydscott
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:29 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 40):

I think we will see those offices stay in Singapore for a long time to come

Don't count on it. The ATO seems determined to thoroughly audit these activities and the reality is that alot of the activities of these "marketing hubs" could easily be done in Australia. There is simply no reason to do them in Singapore, and book profits in Singapore, other than for tax reasons and our anti-avoidance laws have just amended to allow much easier unwindings of these sorts of things.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 39):
Correct. Whether or not that same level of demand will be there once the ATO does finally find a way to close some tax loopholes will be interesting to see

There will still be plenty of demand from legitimate businesses up there. Alot of companies in the tech industries etc have regional hubs up there so I don't think demand will suffer too much.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:10 am

Of course SIN has a strong O&D market from Australia, but all I was suggesting is that some of that can move if things do change course.

The core market though is certainly still impressive in its scale.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:53 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 35):

And it goes both ways, there is a very large Singaporean expat population in Australia and a lot of Singaporean companies have offices here. Australia-Singapore has always been and always will be a very large O&D market, notwithstanding connections.

As an aside is Qantas Group still the second largest operator at SIN, or is Tiger larger now?
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IndianicWorld
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:01 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 44):
As an aside is Qantas Group still the second largest operator at SIN

When you consider that QF group includes QF and the Jetstar flights, it would likely be right.
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:05 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 44):
As an aside is Qantas Group still the second largest operator at SIN, or is Tiger larger now?

EK overtook QF as the largest non-Singaporean carrier at SIN, but as IndianicWorld said, combine QF/JQ/3K and their presence would be second to SQ/MI.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 45):
When you consider that QF group includes QF and the Jetstar flights, it would likely be right.

Until TR & TZ merge, QF Group will probably be the second largest. A combined TR-TZ would be larger, since TR already has more aircraft than 3K.
 
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Coal
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:44 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 42):
Don't count on it. The ATO seems determined to thoroughly audit these activities and the reality is that alot of the activities of these "marketing hubs" could easily be done in Australia. There is simply no reason to do them in Singapore, and book profits in Singapore, other than for tax reasons and our anti-avoidance laws have just amended to allow much easier unwindings of these sorts of things.

Well let's wait and see what the ATO finds. I doubt it will be much. Ultimately, these companies tend to go by the book, with transfer prices to the countries where the product is mined at market rates minus the cost of operating the marketing organization (including finance and logistics).

I also disagree that that's the only reason they have offices in Singapore. Singapore is a global commercial and trade hub, and it is perfectly located between China and India, two of the world's biggest markets for commodities. There is no city in Australia that comes even close to Singapore's position in global business. Besides, you need to also be able to provide a safe and fun place to live for your employees.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 44):
And it goes both ways, there is a very large Singaporean expat population in Australia and a lot of Singaporean companies have offices here. Australia-Singapore has always been and always will be a very large O&D market, notwithstanding connections.

  
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
Sydscott
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:57 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 47):
Ultimately, these companies tend to go by the book, with transfer prices to the countries where the product is mined at market rates minus the cost of operating the marketing organization (including finance and logistics).

In the Iron Ore trade the shipping was paid by the buyer. The finance part was done, at least by BHP, out of Head Office in Melbourne and London. (Global Finance was based in Melbourne. It's now based in London) So again, there is no commercial reason to have a Headquarters in Melbourne, with Executives based out of Melbourne, and Iron head offices in Perth, with executives based out of Perth, who were negotiating the deals with Chinese Buyers while paying "marketing" fees to a wholly owned subsidiary based in Singapore to "market" product that was being dealt with from Australia under long term supply arrangements. The only reason to do so was tax, there is no commercial imperative to do so and that's the reason the ATO is stalking BHP. It'll be a test case on the new Part IVA which the ATO would win thanks to the changes in the law which were designed purely for them to win.
 
AngMoh
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:33 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 47):
Well let's wait and see what the ATO finds. I doubt it will be much. Ultimately, these companies tend to go by the book, with transfer prices to the countries where the product is mined at market rates minus the cost of operating the marketing organization (including finance and logistics).

The point of setting up the office in Singapore is not to avoid Australian tax, but minimize Asian tax due to all the tax agreements Singapore has in place with other Asian countries. For one of my previous companies, all Asian subsidiaries were owned by the Singapore entity and the Singapore entity was owned by the head office in the US. So profits ended up in Singapore due to the inter-asian agreements and then transferred at low tax to the US due to agreement between US and Singapore. It works the same for Australia.
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