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Coal
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Posts: 2547
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:41 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 48):
In the Iron Ore trade the shipping was paid by the buyer.

Whether you sell FOB load port or CIF discharge port, of course the shipping will always be paid by the buyer!   

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 48):
The finance part was done, at least by BHP, out of Head Office in Melbourne and London. (Global Finance was based in Melbourne. It's now based in London)

You're talking about treasury, not the actual trade finance / credit teams in charge of customer creditworthiness reviews or bank relationship management for LCs.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 48):
So again, there is no commercial reason to have a Headquarters in Melbourne, with Executives based out of Melbourne, and Iron head offices in Perth, with executives based out of Perth, who were negotiating the deals with Chinese Buyers while paying "marketing" fees to a wholly owned subsidiary based in Singapore to "market" product that was being dealt with from Australia under long term supply arrangements.

The commodity "head offices" in Brisbane for Met Coal, previously in Sydney for Energy Coal, Perth for IO, Jo'burg for Manganese, Houston for Petroleum, Santiago for Copper, etc., were corporate offices were executive management was largely in charge of running the operations. The "presidents" of each commodity were in effect COOs of their commodities. Commercial decisions on sales, pricing, contracts, etc., were all taking place in Singapore, while regional marketing teams in China, India, Japan, Europe, US, Brazil, etc. were in charge of account management and contract execution. Why else would the offices of BHP or Rio have almost 1,000 people in Singapore? Just for tax avoidance purposes? If that was the case, those companies would have less than 10 employees in country. Also, you might not have read the memo, but annual benchmarks and long-term contracts went out the window in 2008.

Not sure why you seem to feel so bitter about it. Is it because you feel these companies owe billions of dollars to Australia? Like I said before, let's wait and see what the ATO investigation turns out. I'm not trying to argue with you. I am just letting you know that you're in for disappointment.
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
aryonoco
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:35 am

Those who think Singapore's importance to Australian businesses is only as a tax haven significantly underestimate Singapore's role as a global financial centre.
 
Sydscott
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:50 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 50):
You're talking about treasury, not the actual trade finance / credit teams in charge of customer creditworthiness reviews or bank relationship management for LCs.

No I'm talking about Finance. And, again, all BHP has in Singapore is a "marketing" unit, not a trade supply / credit worthiness / banking relationship unit or anything else. It is purely a "marketing" hub for them.

Quoting Coal (Reply 50):
Commercial decisions on sales, pricing, contracts, etc., were all taking place in Singapore, while regional marketing teams in China, India, Japan, Europe, US, Brazil, etc. were in charge of account management and contract execution.

No they're not and that's the point. The commercial decisions in all but contractual form are not taking place in Singapore, only the contract execution is. It's the same problem the ATO has with the structure of Apple, Google and Microsoft use in that the form of the arrangement is one where the contract execution takes place in a low tax jurisdiction whereas the substance of the agreement being entered into is one where nothing except contract execution takes place in the low tax jurisdiction. This part of the taxation law in Australia has thus far been opaque and the ATO has been on a very large data collection drive in order to find out what's actually been going on and close it down. They now have the power to do so and are seeking to use it.

Quoting Coal (Reply 50):
Why else would the offices of BHP or Rio have almost 1,000 people in Singapore?

LOL If you had seen some of the advice I've given to clients about doing exactly this sort of thing you'd know why. It takes more than 10 employee's doing things for a company the size of BHP to build a reasonable arguable position as to the substance of their business under taxation law.

Quoting Coal (Reply 50):
st for tax avoidance purposes?

No it's to create the perception of having an "active trading enterprise" in order to satisfy the requirements of the CFC laws. Because if you do meet the requirements of an active trading enterprise you get to pay the Singapore rate of tax on your income rather than the Australian tax rate on your income.

Quoting Coal (Reply 50):
If that was the case, those companies would have less than 10 employees in country. Also, you might not have read the memo, but annual benchmarks and long-term contracts went out the window in 2008

You might not have read the memo but annual benchmarks were PHASED out beginning in 2008 as they expired.

Quoting Coal (Reply 50):
Not sure why you seem to feel so bitter about it.
Quoting Coal (Reply 50):
Like I said before, let's wait and see what the ATO investigation turns out. I'm not trying to argue with you. I am just letting you know that you're in for disappointment

I'm not bitter about it. For 20 years I've worked in tax and for the last 10 in International tax so I actually find it fascinating. Having read BHP's answers on notice to the Senate Estimates committee about their tax affairs, and with the ATO having issued them with $522 million in amended assessments and picked a fight over the Singapore subsidiary, I can tell you that you're going to be disappointed if you think the BHP, and the other miners, are going to get away Scott free. If the ATO wins they'll owe billions in tax. If the ATO loses the law will be changed and these arrangements will be much harder to enter into and attract more scrutiny in future. So one way or another the Australian Government will win, it's just a matter of which way it happens. That is just the way it is.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:14 am

It would be interesting to see what the key drivers of SQ's growth plans are in Australia.

5 x daily into SYD and possibly MEL is huge, which grows to 6 x daily when Scoot is added to the mix. That's a huge investment but I guess they have to create a very solid market offering to try and compete with the ME3.

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 51):
Those who think Singapore's importance to Australian businesses is only as a tax haven significantly underestimate Singapore's role as a global financial centre.

It is a very important centre, but that role has been boosted by its tax situation.

If there are clamp downs on that (not just in Australia), the shift away is still possible. Stranger things have happened.
 
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Coal
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:43 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 52):
I'm not bitter about it. For 20 years I've worked in tax and for the last 10 in International tax so I actually find it fascinating. Having read BHP's answers on notice to the Senate Estimates committee about their tax affairs, and with the ATO having issued them with $522 million in amended assessments and picked a fight over the Singapore subsidiary, I can tell you that you're going to be disappointed if you think the BHP, and the other miners, are going to get away Scott free. If the ATO wins they'll owe billions in tax. If the ATO loses the law will be changed and these arrangements will be much harder to enter into and attract more scrutiny in future. So one way or another the Australian Government will win, it's just a matter of which way it happens. That is just the way it is.

It is pointless to have an argument when one person has actually worked for the mentioned companies while the other person is an outsider that already has a preconceived view of the situation. So let's just leave it at that.
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
qfba
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:25 am

So which BNE Service will be upgraded?
 
SYDSpotter
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:11 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 47):
I also disagree that that's the only reason they have offices in Singapore. Singapore is a global commercial and trade hub, and it is perfectly located between China and India, two of the world's biggest markets for commodities.

It also helps the Singaporean Government gives a nice tax incentive for BHP to have their marketing hub in Singapore.
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
Thai77w
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RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:30 am

Quoting qfba (Reply 55):

So which BNE Service will be upgraded?

I'd say probably the morning 235/256 rotation. It seems to be the most lucrative for SQ.
Aircraft types I've been on: PA31,Q300,AT75,AT76,717,733,738,739ER,763,772,77E,773,77W,788,789,744,319,320,332,333,346,359,380
 
subramak1
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Re: RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:16 am

Coal wrote:
Quoting aryonoco (Reply 9):Indeed, I've seen many colleagues of mine travel to India on SQ in the past year. I was actually surprised, I thought EK would be a bigger player in the Australia-India market.
Not surprising. It makes much more sense to fly via SIN than DXB



Not to mention AI's dismal schedule to Australia.

SQ / MI fly to the following cities in India:

1) Ahmedabad
2) Bangalore
3) Chennai
4) Delhi
5) Kolkata
6) Mumbai
7) Coimbatore
8) Hyderabad
9) Kochi
10) Thiruvananthapuram
11) Visakhapatnam

SQ also previously flew to Amritsar.

EK fly to the following cities in India:

1) Ahmedabad
2) Bangalore
3) Chennai
4) Delhi
5) Hyderabad
6) Kochi
7) Kolkata
8) Kozhikode
9) Mumbai
10) Thiruvananthapuram

Though probably EK have much higher frequencies (which I have not researched).[Edited 2015-12-06 19:29:34]


Kozhikode , Kochi and Trivandrum flights are driven by Gulf to India traffic

SQ has multiple daliy flights to Mumbai, Delhi and Chennai. Not sure of the type of business traffic between Australia and India, but I would be surprised if it is not geared towards DEL, BOM, BLR and MAA. SQ has a great presence in these cities with loyal krisflyers

Subu
 
airbazar
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Re: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:44 pm

One thing that is often ignored is that the ME as as convenient for the Kangaroo route as Europe is for U.S.-India market, and look at what happened to European carriers in the India market. If I'm paying for a premium seat, I don't want to take off at 9PM and be woken up 2-3 hours later to "prepare for landing". Then go through a connection in what is for me, the middle of the night. SIN is still a significantly better connection experience than the ME, for anyone other than those seeking the lowest fares or tied to some rewards program.
 
trent1000
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Re: RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:21 pm

Thai77w wrote:
Quoting qfba (Reply 55):
So which BNE Service will be upgraded?
I'd say probably the morning 235/256 rotation. It seems to be the most lucrative for SQ.


BNE/SIN SIN/BNE
SQ256 9:10 - 15:10 SQ255 0:45 - 10:45
SQ236 14:40 - 20:40 SQ245 9:45 - 19:45
SQ246 23:55 - 5:35 SQ235 21:15 - 7:15

I don't doubt this, but SQ236, my personal choice allowing convenient connections to Asia and Europe, is always seems to be full no matter which day or month I travel.
On the return, SQ235 is my prefered flight, but SQ255 also always seems full. I think a 777 will work well in terms of capacity & yield for SQ for an early morning arrival into BNE and daytime departure for SIN.
 
Sydscott
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Re: RE: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:38 am

Coal wrote:
Quoting Sydscott (Reply 52):I'm not bitter about it. For 20 years I've worked in tax and for the last 10 in International tax so I actually find it fascinating. Having read BHP's answers on notice to the Senate Estimates committee about their tax affairs, and with the ATO having issued them with $522 million in amended assessments and picked a fight over the Singapore subsidiary, I can tell you that you're going to be disappointed if you think the BHP, and the other miners, are going to get away Scott free. If the ATO wins they'll owe billions in tax. If the ATO loses the law will be changed and these arrangements will be much harder to enter into and attract more scrutiny in future. So one way or another the Australian Government will win, it's just a matter of which way it happens. That is just the way it is.
It is pointless to have an argument when one person has actually worked for the mentioned companies while the other person is an outsider that already has a preconceived view of the situation. So let's just leave it at that.


I could also reply that it's pointless to have an argument with someone who clearly doesn't understand the relationship between taxation law and the commercial reality of the transactions being undertaken. But since I'm not going to be condescending what I will say is that unless you have worked with the ATO, or in taxation compliance within these companies, and know what they look for in these sorts of investigations then you really don't know what their approach will be and how they're going to go about persuing any perceived lack of tax payments. For the Commonwealth these arrangements represent a potentially significant threat to revenue so if the ATO loses before a Court the Government will seek legislative redress to ensure it can't happen in the future and there are a few examples of this happening the biggest 2 actually involving BHP and News Corp. (Both cases where the ATO lost and the Government has responded by changing the laws)
 
chiraagnt
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Singapore Airlines to increase Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney capacity in Dec-2016/Jan-2017

Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:47 pm

Singapore Airlines announced (29-Nov-2016) plans to increase capacity on the following Australia routes in Dec-2016/Jan-2017

Singapore-Adelaide: Increase frequency from seven to 10 times weekly, effective 01-Dec-2016 to 30-Jan-2017. Additional frequencies to be operated with 285 seat A330 aircraft;
Singapore-Melbourne: Deploy 441 seat A380 equipment on one daily frequency from 01-Dec-2016. Deploy Boeing 777-300ER equipment configured with premium economy on one daily frequency from 03-Jan-2017;
Singapore-Sydney: Increase frequency from 28 to 31 times weekly, effective 07-Dec-2016 to 31-Jan-2017. Deploy additional A380 aircraft on 15/20/21/27-Dec-2016 and 04/05-Jan-2017.

Source: http://centreforaviation.com/news/singa ... eak-620267
 
qf002
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Re: Singapore Airlines to increase Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney capacity in Dec-2016/Jan-2017

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:04 pm

SYD is already 31wk year-round, going to 34wk for the summer (CAPA's mistake not yours). Those extra 3wk frequencies will apparently be permanent once they can start the new CGK-SYD service.
 
chiraagnt
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Singapore Airlines boosts Australian Services (SYD, MEL and BNE)

Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:03 am

Singapore Airlines is ramping up flights to Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane in 2017, a year which marks the airline's 50th anniversary in Australian skies.

Melbourne will see a fifth flight appear on the schedule from 17 July 2017, with the new SQ247/248 operating on Monday, Friday and Saturday.

The SQ247 Airbus A330 service will depart Singapore at 2am and arrive in Melbourne at 11.25pm; SQ248 leaves Melbourne at 12.40pm to reach Singapore at 6.30pm.

In addition, from January Melbourne's SQ227/228 will step up to a four-class Boeing 777-300ER with the Star Alliance member's new premium economy class.

Brisbane will see SQ265/266 tick over to a daily frequency from 22 August 2017, up from the current four flights a week; it'll stay on a Boeing 777-200ER aircraft with a fully-flat business class bed for the overnight flight between Brisbane and Singapore.

Sydney is also gaining extra flights. Beginning 4 June 2017, SQ251/252 will be bumped up from three times weekly to five times weekly, while SQ231/222 will continue as a four-class Airbus A380 from 18 June to 30 September 2017.

2017 will also see Singapore Airlines boost flights to popular cities in Europe and Asia – including Rome, Moscow and Bangkok – with a new via Moscow route to Stockholm.



Source: http://www.ausbt.com.au/more-singapore- ... e-brisbane
 
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LionelHutz
Posts: 80
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Re: Singapore Airlines boosts Australian Services (SYD, MEL and BNE)

Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:35 am

Nearly 10% growth in pax traffic YTD to SIN according to data on the BITRE website.

September 2016 for SQ inbound 127k, outbound 127k, for QF inbound 37k, outbound 36k.
A key market for QF, but SQ look intent to stay the gorilla in the room!
 
downdata
Posts: 575
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Re: Singapore Airlines boosts Australian Services (SYD, MEL and BNE)

Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:38 am

Sometimes I wish SQ would operate domestic AU routes so can finally get a real star alliance carrier here
 
Bluebird191
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Re: Singapore Airlines boosts Australian Services (SYD, MEL and BNE)

Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:25 am

downdata wrote:
Sometimes I wish SQ would operate domestic AU routes so can finally get a real star alliance carrier here


Being part owner of VA they alredy kind of do.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3309
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Singapore Airlines boosts Australian Services (SYD, MEL and BNE)

Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:41 am

Bluebird191 wrote:
downdata wrote:
Sometimes I wish SQ would operate domestic AU routes so can finally get a real star alliance carrier here


Being part owner of VA they alredy kind of do.


SQ have had involvement in the Australian domestic market on a couple of occasions.

Ansett was a significant investment for them and they wanted to expand its stake but Air New Zealand exercised its rights to cut off that idea. We all know how that ended up.

The next attempt was Virgin Australia, which has been a bit of a challenge in itself. Having to deal with multiple airline investors in the same airline has likely made things harder, but it is still in the picture there.

It also had a foot in the market with Tiger Airways (now Tigerair). That really struggled and managed to bring about many headaches along the way. It has divested the stake to Virgin Australia.

The Australian domestic market has been chased hard by Singapore Airlines and Air New Zealand over time. It holds a lot of strategic value.
 
User avatar
LionelHutz
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Re: Singapore Airlines boosts Australian Services (SYD, MEL and BNE)

Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:14 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
Bluebird191 wrote:
downdata wrote:
Sometimes I wish SQ would operate domestic AU routes so can finally get a real star alliance carrier here


Being part owner of VA they alredy kind of do.


SQ have had involvement in the Australian domestic market on a couple of occasions.

Ansett was a significant investment for them and they wanted to expand its stake but Air New Zealand exercised its rights to cut off that idea. We all know how that ended up.

The next attempt was Virgin Australia, which has been a bit of a challenge in itself. Having to deal with multiple airline investors in the same airline has likely made things harder, but it is still in the picture there.

It also had a foot in the market with Tiger Airways (now Tigerair). That really struggled and managed to bring about many headaches along the way. It has divested the stake to Virgin Australia.

The Australian domestic market has been chased hard by Singapore Airlines and Air New Zealand over time. It holds a lot of strategic value.


Definitely, for both SQ and NZ they have a significant competitor in QF (especially for NZ), they have a strategic imperative to maintain some sort of pressure on QF domestically, as well as internationally.
SQ increasing it's Australian services ensures as much as possible of the significant international pax traffic growth remains with SQ and off QF.
 
getluv
Posts: 554
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Re: Singapore Airlines boosts Australian Services (SYD, MEL and BNE)

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:18 pm

LionelHutz wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
Bluebird191 wrote:

Being part owner of VA they alredy kind of do.


SQ have had involvement in the Australian domestic market on a couple of occasions.

Ansett was a significant investment for them and they wanted to expand its stake but Air New Zealand exercised its rights to cut off that idea. We all know how that ended up.

The next attempt was Virgin Australia, which has been a bit of a challenge in itself. Having to deal with multiple airline investors in the same airline has likely made things harder, but it is still in the picture there.

It also had a foot in the market with Tiger Airways (now Tigerair). That really struggled and managed to bring about many headaches along the way. It has divested the stake to Virgin Australia.

The Australian domestic market has been chased hard by Singapore Airlines and Air New Zealand over time. It holds a lot of strategic value.


Definitely, for both SQ and NZ they have a significant competitor in QF (especially for NZ), they have a strategic imperative to maintain some sort of pressure on QF domestically, as well as internationally.
SQ increasing it's Australian services ensures as much as possible of the significant international pax traffic growth remains with SQ and off QF.


SIN is SQ's main hub so you're comparing apples and oranges here.

Recently, I would say VA has not put any pressure on QF domestically. Steady as she goes in the duopoly, except QF is making money hand over fist compared to VA.
I'm that bad type.
 
LY777
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Re: Singapore Airlines boosts Australian Services (SYD, MEL and BNE)

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:32 pm

Good to see SQ expanding again :)
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
Ryanair01
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Re: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL/ADL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:32 pm

I tend to get shouted down for pointing out SQ still carry a lot of passengers out of Australia :(

As a few other posters pointed out there is a fairly big O&D market and quite a lot of it is from business links, Singapore has a policy of attracting foreign businesses to make the country their Asian HQ which works quite well for many Australian businesses. Although the banks have strong links, I've also done business with Australian engineering companies in Singapore (particularly high end like oil).

Despite that flying on SQ a few times to/ex Australia recently I've noticed/spoken to a lot of people connecting, split fairly evenly between Europe, India and Southeast Asia.

I think with corporate O&D, India and Southeast Asia SQ have been relatively insulated. They've definitely also benefitted by the troubles at airlines like TG and MH who are somewhat shadows of their former selves.
 
log0008
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:17 pm

Re: SQ To Increase SIN-SYD/MEL/ADL, Upgauge BNE

Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:10 pm

SQ will continue to do very well in Australia especially in Melbourne.

Singapore-Australia visitors grew by 23% in 2015/16 (32% in Melbourne)
India-Australia visitors (SQ holds 30% of the market, SIN 50%) grew by 16% in 2015/16
Australia-Singapore visitors grew by 10%

And SQ also holds about 10% of the China market, along with high stakes in AUS-Indonesia, AUS-Thailand and AUS-Vietnam which are are growing quickly.

and thats before you count their role in the AUS-Europe market.

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