TC957
Topic Author
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6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:42 pm

I saw on a list of stored aircraft at Kemble at E190 VP-CQW ex NAS Air is in pieces.
Seems an awful waste of such a new frame - delivered only in Jan 2009 - is the used E190 market really as bad as all that ?
 
CPH-R
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Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 5:19 pm

RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:26 pm

Judging by Flickr, it's been an Exeter for nearly 18 months now, so either something was very wrong with it or whoever owned it, decided it was more valuable as spareparts. The engines were removed almost straight away as well.
 
MEA-707
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:37 pm

With low interest rates and therefore acquistion costs, Airlines seem to prefer new aircraft over second hand ones. It's the first of the 190/195 family to be scrapped but we have already seen fairly new CRJ-700s, A-318s, 319s, 330s and 777s being scrapped and the expectation is that most new built aircraft will mostly fly with only airline for 10-15 years in contrast to the older DC-9s, 727s and 747s which had multiple owners and soldiered on for 30 years.
That said, perhaps this specific frame coming from a small bankrupt Saudi airline might have had some skeletons in the closet, overhaul documentation lacking etc. I noticed as well that Anadolujet wanted to fly some former FlyNAS E190s but either it takes longer then expected or they rejected them.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:04 pm

For some reason, the 190 just isnt a popular airplane. Aside from a possible DL or UA order, the secondary market has to be close to 0.

The smaller 170/175 can be flown in the US by regionals. Therefore it is way more popular in airline fleets.


I am a firm believer that the largest operator, JetBlue, will never take another new order of the 190.
 
744lover
Posts: 196
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:17 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
For some reason, the 190 just isnt a popular airplane.

In the US, true...

But not in Europe, Asia and South America: Azul alone has 86 190/195 planes, Lufthansa Cityline 32 and the list goes on... In fact, more 190/195 frames were produced than 170/175...


BR,
744lover
 
TC957
Topic Author
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:25 pm

I think the ex-F9 A318's must hold the unfortunate accolade of being the newest airliners to be scrapped but surely this E190 must have the fewest flown hours of any scrapped airframe, aside from any test aircraft I mean.
Unless of course, anyone knows differently......
Another point - how come KLM haven't acquired it for a spares source for their big E190 fleet ?
 
A388
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:42 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
For some reason, the 190 just isnt a popular airplane.

In the U.S. that might be, not the rest of the world...


A388
 
starrymarkb
Posts: 285
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:00 pm

It was cut into sections at Exeter and left on low loaders last week. A work colleague took some pictures as it passed the bus she was on. It still had the interior fitted.
 
AAMDanny
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:15 pm

I remember speaking to someone in fleet management at my old airline, sometimes a odd ball aircraft from another airline might have slight differences in the configuration, from the flight deck ie, switches in different places, to the cabin ie different galley and lavatory config and can be undesirable as it will be a black sheep in another airlines fleet. Also different engine type is the main contributing factor!
 
bgm
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:01 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
For some reason, the 190 just isnt a popular airplane. Aside from a possible DL or UA order, the secondary market has to be close to 0.

Do you even realize that a world exists outside of the US?   

Quoting 744lover (Reply 4):
But not in Europe, Asia and South America: Azul alone has 86 190/195 planes, Lufthansa Cityline 32 and the list goes on... In fact, more 190/195 frames were produced than 170/175...
Quoting A388 (Reply 6):
In the U.S. that might be, not the rest of the world...

  

I wonder if there was some sort of structural damage? It seems that the lifespan of aircraft these days is a lot less than it used to be, as another poster noted.
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
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enilria
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:32 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 2):
With low interest rates and therefore acquistion costs, Airlines seem to prefer new aircraft over second hand ones.

Somebody tell DL and WN that!
 
jetblue1965
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Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:41 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 10):
Somebody tell DL and WN that!

Those are the exception not the rule. And even with DL's love for cheap used aircraft and dirt cheap $10m/frame 77E, they still didn't want it.
 
Thai77w
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:25 am

There is also 18 operating for Virgin Australia.
Aircraft types I've been on: PA31,Q300,AT75,AT76,717,733,738,739ER,763,772,77E,773,77W,788,789,744,319,320,332,333,346,359,380
 
Viscount724
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:58 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 6):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
For some reason, the 190 just isnt a popular airplane.

In the U.S. that might be, not the rest of the world...

AC has 45 E190s, operated by AC mainline.
 
roseflyer
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:34 am

A single used airplane is very hard to sell to a passenger airline. Single planes either are good for business jet or freighter modifications. Not many airlines want to acquire a single plane since they will have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars reconfiguring it and it still will be different. It is much easier to sell airplanes in blocks of 10 or more.

The used parts on an embraer 190 might be valuable and the owner couldn't get an airline to pay more than a scrapper.

Alternatively it could have had a hard landing or some other structural damage that would be costly to repair.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:46 am

"Embraer 190 (or EMB 190-100)—As of July 2015, 506 Embraer 190 aircraft (all variants) are in airline service, with 47 orders. Major operators include JetBlue Airways (60), Air Canada (45), Tianjin Airlines (45), Aeromexico Connect (30), KLM cityhopper (28), Azul Brazilian Airlines (22), Austral Lineas Aereas (22), China Southern Airlines (20), American Airlines (19), Virgin Australia (18), Conviasa (15) and other operators with fewer aircraft.[39]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_E-Jet_family#E-190_and_195

There are 68 orders for this popular airplane according to the latest numbers.

And the largest operator resides in the USA.

What is the secondary market? Can't be very big
 
vfw614
Posts: 3801
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:26 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
What is the secondary market? Can't be very big

Why not? Obvious replacement for airlines that have bought second-hand Fokker 100s and Bae 146s years ago and now need a replacement for aircraft approaching 30 years of age. Might even be of interest for some carriers that have Boeing 737-500s. Plus all those upgauging from the by now unpopular 70seat category to 100seaters.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:45 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 16):
Why not? Obvious replacement for airlines that have bought second-hand Fokker 100s and Bae 146s years ago and now need a replacement for aircraft approaching 30 years of age.

Very good point. But from what I gather there's a couple of issues with the E-190 that the fokker didn't have.

The F100 for example the base model was the 100 seater. The stretch (although basically the original F28) came
later and the frame wasn't optimized for it. Actually from what I hear the F100 is quite light compared to the much
newer E-190. So here in Australia, where we have Hot conditions with short runways in regional places - think mining towns that it can get up to 45 degrees C in the daytime, the F100 gets off the runway.... the E190 doesn't. Of course flying between city pairs that have long runways between europe - even ones with lighter loads and cooler temperatures this isn't a problem. But these same regional markets we're talking here tend to be very isolated. So just like Northwest used to send the DC-9 when some carriers sent the dreaded CRJ, we send the fokker F100 and the 717-200 because they can also carry a significant load of cargo, something essential two these markets. Virgin Australia tried some of these markets with the E-190 and struggled - and ended up buying out skywest Australia and rebranding their Fokker 100s ands and using them. It wasn't an accident. A more efficient aircraft with a lower CASM doesn't always mean more profit. If you have to weight restrict it too much, vs an older aircraft you can both fill and carry cargo.... the other one can generate more revenue. In short - Europe's got a lot of smaller cities with long enough runways and cooler conditions - I can see as good second hand market there. But I couldn't see the jet doing as well in Australia, South Africa or Mexico due to the hotter climate requirements. Which when you think about it is kind of dumbfounding given it was made in Brazil!
 
AOMlover
Posts: 1200
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:03 pm

RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:08 am

Spare parts will be sold by the UK broker Avtrade.
 
hz747300
Posts: 2373
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:17 am

Quoting bgm (Reply 9):
Do you even realize that a world exists outside of the US?   

Well, I'm sure he does. But if there was a market outside the USofA (or in the USofA) someone would have bought it, or leased it. The numbers given for the various fleets are nice, but still nobody pitched for the plane, at least at a price they were willing to accept. With the E2 around the corner, airlines have moved on.
Keep on truckin'...
 
vfw614
Posts: 3801
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:09 am

You never know what the issue with a certain airframe is. Maybe problems with mx records, dubious documentaiton, who knows. If we have 100 relatively young E190s sitting in the desert and being turned into cans and spares, we might have an issue to discuss. But based on a single frame, it is statistically insignificant.
 
nkops
Posts: 2204
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: 6 Year Old E190 Scrapped?

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:00 pm

Anybody know what happened to RP's E-190's after the Caesar contract ended?
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