CDG
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AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:02 pm

Hi,

In April Airfrance returns to Tehran with 3 weekly flights

AF 738 CDG 10:30 18:40 IKA 18:40 357
AF 755 IKA 07:15 10:55 CDG 461

In June Aifrrance will launch a daily Paris Orly JFK

AF 32 ORY 11:00 13:10 JFK D

AF 37 JFK 18:05 07:05 ORY D

Cheers!

CDG

http://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/pr...k-et-paris-charles-de-gaulle-tehe/
 
ripcordd
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:31 pm

Speaking of ORY do you think AA would move their CDG back to ORY?
 
sw733
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:31 pm

Interesting. Looks like a 772 for ORY-JFK, but I don't see an aircraft listed for Tehran...any ideas? Looks like the crew just spends the night in Tehran and travels back with the a/c in the morning.
 
sw733
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:32 pm

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 1):
Speaking of ORY do you think AA would move their CDG back to ORY?

What would the benefit be? JFK-ORY might possibly work, but I can't see it working better than CDG. And definitely none of their other Paris routes.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:37 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 3):

What would the benefit be? JFK-ORY might possibly work, but I can't see it working better than CDG. And definitely none of their other Paris routes.

A sizable benefit in terms of closer to city center. By driving distance, Paris city center is 18km to ORY but 31km out to CDG.

Doesn't sound like much until you take the Roissy airport bus. From Opera station to CDG, with no traffic at sunday noon, took me a full hour.

I don't think AA would completely move to ORY, but to add a JFK-ORY to suppliment existing CDG service isn't a bad idea at all, esp considering AA is reasonable strong in France, only 2nd to DL.
 
skipness1E
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:40 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 4):
I don't think AA would completely move to ORY,

Move back surely, they were forcibly evicted in the first place.
 
reality
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:45 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 3):

What would the benefit be? JFK-ORY

A preemptive strike--because of Norwegian DY considering starting that route. There is a thread on it here.

[Edited 2015-12-08 07:47:14]
 
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mercure1
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:48 pm

Be great to get ORY-NYC back on AF. Not only appealing for Parisians but those in the regions due AF domestic network base at ORY.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 4):
esp considering AA is reasonable strong in France, only 2nd to DL.

Maybe after merger with US, but I always saw United bigger in France and with more savy marketing presence.
Also UA services BRU which is natural airport for much of Northern France like family in Lille. AA did not service BRU until merger and now only a daily 757 to PHL vs UA widebodies to ORD, IAD and EWR.

Does UA still have its CDG crews?
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FoxBravo
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:53 pm

Awesome! Easier access for O&D, and much better options for domestic connections in France.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 5):
Move back surely, they were forcibly evicted in the first place.

Agreed. I would think many airlines that serve Paris as a "spoke" rather than a hub (i.e., pretty much anyone other than AF and its SkyTeam partners) would prefer ORY, all things being equal.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
jetblue1965
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:58 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 7):

Maybe after merger with US, but I always saw United bigger in France and with more savy marketing presence.
Also UA services BRU which is natural airport for much of Northern France like family in Lille. AA did not service BRU until merger and now only a daily 757 to PHL vs UA widebodies to ORD, IAD and EWR.

AA serves CDG from 5 hubs year round, and 2 more seasonal (BOS, CLT).

UA is just from 4 hubs, but has the advantage of flying the only US-carrier own-metal flight from California to CDG. If not for the Paris attacks, I would expect UA to really consider bringing IAH-CDG back, but now, those plans are probably put on hold. On top of what you've mentioned about BRU, UA also has extensive service to GVA, that has certain parts of south-eastern France within its catchment.
 
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mercure1
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:10 pm

Well my impression is that United is certainly more prominent in France. Lots more media presence and seemingly travel agents advertise UA flights plus obviously Francophone markets BRU and GVA which are used by segment of French travelers.
I really never hear/see anything about AA in France. Strange.
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liftsifter
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:12 pm

Happy to hear AF is back at IKA! Wonderful news for Iranian tourism and for western relations with Iran.
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EddieDude
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:13 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 3):
What would the benefit be? JFK-ORY might possibly work, but I can't see it working better than CDG. And definitely none of their other Paris routes.

If I am not mistaken, AA places its code on OpenSkies' ORY-JFK and ORY-EWR flights.
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mercure1
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:20 pm

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 8):
Agreed. I would think many airlines that serve Paris as a "spoke" rather than a hub (i.e., pretty much anyone other than AF and its SkyTeam partners) would prefer ORY, all things being equal.

There was a reallocation process of airline and service destinations between ORY and CDG starting in 1996. Airlines like AA, CO were required move to CDG which they did in the following few years.

Also keep in mind ORY has reached its capacity and it is difficult add more services.

But CDG is also a focus for Star Alliance. Its one of the few global airports designated under its "under one roof" concept with lots of money spent on joint facilities at CDG1, so I cant imagine UA for example would seek to relocate to ORY even if it could.
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jetblue1965
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:32 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 13):

But CDG is also a focus for Star Alliance. Its one of the few global airports designated under its "under one roof" concept with lots of money spent on joint facilities at CDG1, so I cant imagine UA for example would seek to relocate to ORY even if it could.

Why is Air Canada still stuck in 2A ?
 
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lesfalls
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:06 pm

I wonder if DY is rethinking their plans now . How come is Tegran suddenly so popular (2 months ago I understood since it was different but now I don't understand since it seems things are changing there)?
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redadeco
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:25 pm

AF's decision to return to IKA came out just in time with the US Congress' new bill about visa waiver requirements.

Whoever visited Iran (Iraq, Syria and Sudan are on the same list) in the past 5 years will need a visa to visit the US.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:35 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 3):

What would the benefit be? JFK-ORY might possibly work, but I can't see it working better than CDG. And definitely none of their other Paris routes.

Why none of the other Paris routes? They could all easily work from Orly easily in theory. It's not like AA is sending a lot of connecting traffic via CDG anyway, and Orly is more convenient.

That said, I don't see them moving.
a.
 
aryonoco
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:55 pm

Great to see AF back in Tehran. It was greatly missed. Hopefully with business ties expanding between Iran and France, the flight will go daily soon.

Does anyone know what equipment will be operating the type?
 
Viscount724
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:12 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 14):
Why is Air Canada still stuck in 2A ?

AC wants to be as close as possible to AF as they have significant connecting traffic, especially other points in France. AC was temporarily moved to another terminal (forget which one) a few years ago due to construction and they were not happy with the move.
 
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mercure1
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:20 am

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 15):
How come is Tegran suddenly so popular (2 months ago I understood since it was different but now I don't understand since it seems things are changing there)?

The lifting of trade sanctions makes it easier for European airlines to operate and do business with Iran state. There was always a big market for travel and trade with Europe but unfortunately the sanctions made it hard. So now after 7-years AF can return to Iran.

Last month 150 French company representatives accompanied by two government ministers traveled to Iran on a trade mission as reestablish close ties between the nations.
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jfklganyc
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:38 am

Keep in mind, AA has 2 daily JFK-CDG, a 763 and a 757. I think in the summer, they are both 763s.

That tells me something is okay with this route.

They messed with NRT, and look how that turned out.

They messed with moving the 5th daily LHR to STN...and look how that turned out.

They should probably just stick to their successful CDG route.

[Edited 2015-12-08 18:38:36]
 
777way
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:25 am

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):
I don't see an aircraft listed for Tehran...any ideas?

More than likely A330, it used to see 744 as well in the past so a 777 cant be ruled out ether.
 
Aircellist
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:35 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 14):
Why is Air Canada still stuck in 2A ?

AC wants to be as close as possible to AF as they have significant connecting traffic, especially other points in France. AC was temporarily moved to another terminal (forget which one) a few years ago due to construction and they were not happy with the move.

Not only that, but also AC was "historically" in T1; I remember emplaning and deplaning there in the '80s. To be honest, I don't remember when they moved to T2.
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aryonoco
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:40 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 22):

More than likely A330, it used to see 744 as well in the past so a 777 cant be ruled out ether.

Wasn't that because they had to tanker fuel as they couldn't get fuel in Tehran?

IKA-CDG is only 2270nm, well within the range of even the A320.
 
slinky09
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:22 am

Good to see AF back in Tehran and I hope BA follows suit soon - there has to be a strong potential between the UK and Iran given the number of Iranian expats here and that Iran Air still flies to LHR daily.
 
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euroflyer
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:11 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 22):
More than likely A330, it used to see 744 as well in the past so a 777 cant be ruled out ether.
Quoting aryonoco (Reply 24):

IKA-CDG is only 2270nm, well within the range of even the A320.

I think they're more likely to use the A320 at first.
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Skyeurope
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:02 am

Quoting redadeco (Reply 16):

Yet another reason to boycott the US. I won't let myself be called a terrorist just because I visited the amazing country Iran is 4 times over the last 2 years!
 
mozart
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:27 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 7):
Not only appealing for Parisians but those in the regions due AF domestic network base at ORY.

Not really. The more important French markets all have connections to CDG and don't need ORY to be connected to JFK (RNS, NTE, BOD, TLS, MRS, MPL, LYS, BES, NCE, soon BIQ). Strasbourg and Lille are connected by direct TGV high speed trains to CDG. So ORY only opens direct connections to places like Aurillac, Lannion and Rodez. It's a bit like saying one needs to open a route to MSP to allow for connections to Bemidji, Minnesota or to Watertown, South Dakota.

Plus the timings are not attractive for connections. Most of the domestic feeder flights get into ORY well before 9am, so pax would have to wait 2-2.5 hours to continue. That wastes the advantage of the easy connect at ORY.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:05 pm

FWIW at one point DL/AF planned JFK-ORY on a 757 a few years ago but it didn't end up happening.
I'm a little surprised they are going 777 right out of the gate this time vs a smaller 757 or 767 first.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 7):

Does UA still have its CDG crews?

IIRC yes, and London based crews.

Quoting Skyeurope (Reply 27):

Yet another reason to boycott the US.

Oh darn, we will miss you.
 
RJNUT
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:28 pm

Quoting mozart (Reply 28):
Not really. The more important French markets all have connections to CDG and don't need ORY to be connected to JFK (RNS, NTE, BOD, TLS, MRS, MPL, LYS, BES, NCE

its a hard sell for many Americans to go intermodal. Plane- to- plane sells better even though I completely grasp and appreciate the TGV options out of CDGl
 
icareflies
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:42 pm

I used to live South of Orly and I always thought a direct ORY-JFK would be fun.
The growth of the population south of Paris is not negligible and the Grand Paris subway project will help even more that part of the region to increase. Also the project includes a new LGV to connect the different LGV going North, East and South West with a TGV station at ORY or closed by.
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Skyeurope
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:58 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 29):

Oh I'm sure you will. To be honest, do we really need a Western country that screams "WE ARE RACIST" all over? It's definetely alright, to control the flow of refugees and don't let everybody into the country, but the average traveller that has visited Iran (why Iran and not Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc.?) is called a terrorist? What sense does that make? Just because I like to visit certain Muslim countries doesn't make me a terrorist.
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:10 pm

Good luck to AF with this new JFK-ORY route!

I will try it if I can, it would simplify a lot of my connections within France and Europe.
 
mozart
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:12 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 30):
its a hard sell for many Americans to go intermodal. Plane- to- plane sells better even though I completely grasp and appreciate the TGV options out of CDGl

Those poor Americans will face a shock then given that Lille and Strasbourg don't/won't have any flights to ORY either. So train it is. Or car, which they may like because that's what they know, but it takes 2.5-3 times longer.
 
Provance
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:38 pm

I wonder will OpenSkies be able to survive with the onslaught of AF and the 777
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IBA346
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:18 pm

Quoting Provance (Reply 35):

It looks like OpenSkies is considering uping capacity in response. Good news for the consumer !

Source - in French.

http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-...ites-face-a-air-france-534233.html
 
SCQ83
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting IBA346 (Reply 36):
It looks like OpenSkies is considering uping capacity in response. Good news for the consumer !

Source - in French.

http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-...ites-face-a-air-france-534233.html

Interesting. Maybe Openskies could launch ORY-MIA as well. If Norwegian starts long-haul from ORY, no doubt ORY-FLL will be among the first routes.
 
OB1504
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:29 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 12):
If I am not mistaken, AA places its code on OpenSkies' ORY-JFK and ORY-EWR flights.

   Is EC part of the AA/BA/IB/AY joint venture?

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 37):
Interesting. Maybe Openskies could launch ORY-MIA as well.

It would require the introduction of a new fleet type, though.
 
airzona11
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:06 pm

Quoting Skyeurope (Reply 32):
Oh I'm sure you will. To be honest, do we really need a Western country that screams "WE ARE RACIST" all over? It's definetely alright, to control the flow of refugees and don't let everybody into the country, but the average traveller that has visited Iran (why Iran and not Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc.?) is called a terrorist? What sense does that make? Just because I like to visit certain Muslim countries doesn't make me a terrorist.

Less lines at immigration, take your patronage elsewhere (let alone what is the concern if you have nothing to hide besides your smug worldly intellect gained from traveling to those nations). With the narrowing of the exchange rate, Summer 2016 will be one of the busiest Trans Atlantic years ever. (For your European and North American airlines).

This is one of those Secondary / P2P routes that is really great about the JV system. I know this is still Paris to NYC but with Delta on one side and AF on the other, there is tons of feed, on top of the enormous O/D.

BWI / Oakland / FLL / others in adjacent metroplexs are going to continue to see gains.
 
IBA346
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:45 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 38):
   Is EC part of the AA/BA/IB/AY joint venture?

Yes. Has been since the beginning if I remember correctly.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 38):
It would require the introduction of a new fleet type, though.

The La Tribune article talks about using the 767s that BA mainline is retiring from its fleet. The original plan for OpenSkies was that it would take BA's retiring 757 fleet. Only one was ever transferred. Let's see if this second plan takes off.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:14 am

Quoting sw733 (Reply 2):

Interesting. Looks like a 772 for ORY-JFK, but I don't see an aircraft listed for Tehran...any ideas?

About 2270 nmi making 4:49 at M=0.82. Any A320 family member in AF's fleet (and they have the A318 through the A321) is a good starting point. I doubt it would merit anything larger than an A321.
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zoulastar
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:57 am

AF will start the route with an A320. However the A320 on this route means no freight in the hold, so we'll see how it goes!
Once the flight goes daily and if the route is doing well, AF might switch to a bigger aircraft like the A330 or the B772!

Val
 
SCQ83
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:57 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 38):
It would require the introduction of a new fleet type, though.

The article states OpenSkies is getting B767s
 
mozart
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:01 am

Quoting airzona11 (Reply 39):
what is the concern if you have nothing to hide

Two concerns:

1. Collective suspicion against people that travel as tourists or for legitimate business to certain countries. What would you say if all US citizens were to be banned from visa free travel only because it is ranked global #1 in people running amok in schools, malls, etc and global #1 in prison population/cap? I think you'd find it odd, and I would definitely agree with you. True, noone in their right mind would currently travel to Syria, few tourists would go to Iraq. But Iran, Sudan, why not?
Also, if the rule is about people who have visited countries that are "safe havens" for terrorists, why not include Belgium for instance, or France? That's where almost all the November 13 terrorists came from.

2. A very time-consuming and cumbersome process to get a visa

Quoting airzona11 (Reply 39):
besides your smug worldly intellect gained from traveling to those nations

Totally uncalled for comment on people who have an interest in different cultures, people and countries. I don't look down or criticize people who prefer to limit their international travel to the beach in Cancun or by drinking Bud and eating whatever grub they know from back home a 5,000 pax cruise ship and who get their perspective on other countries from FOX News. But neither should one criticize those that do go off the beaten path.

----------------

Back on topic:

Quoting IBA346 (Reply 40):
The La Tribune article talks about using the 767s that BA mainline is retiring from its fleet. The original plan for OpenSkies was that it would take BA's retiring 757 fleet. Only one was ever transferred. Let's see if this second plan takes off.

That would be highly interesting. I can understand the economic motivation for OpenSkies to operate the 757, but it's actually not very comfortable. If BA used the 767 or even better the 787 with modernized cabins from ORY that would be tops!
 
SCQ83
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:32 am

I was not aware of those new Visa Waiver requirements.

Really shocking to put Iran on that list. Iraq and Syria I could understand in 2015, but Iran? The funny thing is that Iran is on list but Saudi Arabia is not.
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:39 am

Iran fully deserves to be on a terror list. All they have agreed to is some level of control on their nuclear program but they are not and by far friendly to the West. And there still is a host of sanctions in force.

As for Saudi Arabia and other petrodictatures, I wish we had the balls to also treat them the way they deserve to be.
 
vv701
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:34 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 13):
I cant imagine UA for example would seek to relocate to ORY even if it could.

I assume that the 1996 restriction disappeared in 2008 when the 'Open Skies' agreement came into force.

Quoting IBA346 (Reply 36):
It looks like OpenSkies is considering uping capacity in response. Good news for the consumer !
Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 43):
The article states OpenSkies is getting B767s

I do not think this is certain. The La Tribune article quotes EC as saying that it is considering the 767 as one of several possible future fleet options:

"Openskies cherche effectivement à faire évoluer sa flotte, et le B767 fait partie des pistes de réflexion, parmi d'autres en cours."
 
777way
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:37 pm

Lufthansa has only flown widebodies to Tehran, arent there more Iranis in France?
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: AF Return To Tehran And Launches ORY-JFK

Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:56 pm

Quoting Skyeurope (Reply 27):

Don't get me started. I am so angry with Congress right now, after I have been effectively banned from visiting Iran, a country I really, really want to visit. I travel to the USA several times per year, so I need to maintain visa waiver status.

airzona11 asks what the big deal if you have nothing to hide. Generally I would be inclined to agree, but I know from personal experience how awful the US visa application process is. I've been through the process before for a student visa, I've certainly have no interest to do it for a tourists visa.

What angers and confuses me the most is how seemingly political inclusion Iran (and Sudan) is. Syria and Iraq are totally understandable, but Iran? How are they relevant. Same for Sudan. I could see an argument for adding, say, Nigeria due to the insurgency waged by IS-aligned Boko Haram, but Iran strikes me as "let's add a country we don't like to spite them just because we won't be able to block the nuclear accord".
Worked Hard, Flew Right

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