Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
covert
Topic Author
Posts: 1528
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:02 am

UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:30 am

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall, but according to Aviation Week UA is giving serious thought to starting a route to SIN now that they have aircraft on order that potentially could make it viable.

http://aviationweek.com/awincommerci...ating-nonstop-us-singapore-service
none
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15703
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:34 am

Who in their right mind would fly ULH with UA ?
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:43 am

Yes it seems UA evaluates the A350-900ULR for these long flights.

http://twitter.com/winglets747/status/674354422449840130

Same source says UA also evaluated the 787-9 but it would face a too large seat block on the westbound sector.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
NH203
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:39 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:53 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
Who in their right mind would fly ULH with UA ?

We'll let's see what kind of J they put in these birds.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7442
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:54 am

Singapore Airlines would start flying the same route and kill them. IF UA were to do such a thing it would have to be from ORD or SFO, you can count on SQ starting a nonstop if United were to undertake such a flight.


Singapore in the past flew nonstop to LAX and Newark(why I have wondered) when it flies their A380 to JFK.
 
SKAirbus
Posts: 1545
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:58 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Singapore Airlines would start flying the same route and kill them. IF UA were to do such a thing it would have to be from ORD or SFO, you can count on SQ starting a nonstop if United were to undertake such a flight.

SQ is going to start flying non-stop to the US again. They announced it relatively recently and will use A350-900ULRs in a low density config to LAX and EWR/JFK.
Base: BRU
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8881
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:12 pm

Would be great to have nonstop SFO-SIN, even on United.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
NH203
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:39 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:17 pm

If this materializes, I'd say it will be from SFO, as that is their fortress hub.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:25 pm

I know they are most likely dying to get rid of the remaining intra-Asia flights, so this would not surprise me. That said, I wonder why UA flies both HKG-SIN and NRT-SIN. I flew HKG-SIN-HKG back in February and it was packed in all cabins and the vast majority of the passengers seemed to be in transit to the USA. That said, it cost me only 150USD to do HKG-SIN-HKG, so yields cannot be that great.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
User avatar
N776AU
Posts: 1015
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:18 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:26 pm

I didn't know the ERJ-145 had that kind of range. Impressive, really.
Careful, doors are closing, and will not reopen. Please wait for the next train.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:19 pm

This flight would be a really effective counter punch against most of the NE Asian competitors, and among the strongest, CX. SFO-SIN nonstop makes the most sense from UA's network, and would allow them to finally cut the SIN tags once and for all, handing them over to ANA instead.

Another strategy is to start with 789 using seat blocking of 20-30 on the westbound, then switch to 359ULH when it's ready in 2018-2019.

From UA's eyes, this is more about solidifying the SFO hub rather than any sort of pissing match with SQ.
 
User avatar
DolphinAir747
Posts: 1901
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:07 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:23 pm

I can't understand the lack of SQ nonstop SFO SIN. Definitely doable with the 77W no?
 
User avatar
redzeppelin
Posts: 1195
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:30 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:27 pm

Certainly possible with 77L. Maybe UA could convert a few of the upcoming 77Ws to 77Ls and start this really soon.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10250
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:39 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 12):
Certainly possible with 77L. Maybe UA could convert a few of the upcoming 77Ws to 77Ls and start this really soon.

It's probably a lot more efficient to do it with a 789 even with blocked seats.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5392
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:52 pm

Quoting N776AU (Reply 9):

I didn't know the ERJ-145 had that kind of range. Impressive, really.

damn beat me to it.

ERJ-145XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXR, drop tanks and all      

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Singapore Airlines would start flying the same route and kill them.

I personally think SQ will only add NYC and LAX to SIN. UA's only logical hub to add from is SFO.



question, what engine will the 359LR have? Trent XWB-84s or Trent XWB-97s?
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:53 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 14):
question, what engine will the 359LR have?

Trent XWB-84.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5392
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:57 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 15):

Thanks Karel

I wonder if this opens up the possibility of a regular 359 order to help replace some 777s........
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27459
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:16 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
Who in their right mind would fly ULH with UA?

Corporate accounts and Mileage Plus flyers come to mind.



Quoting NH203 (Reply 7):
If this materializes, I'd say it will be from SFO, as that is their fortress hub.

I agree. With a possibility of ORD / IAH down the road.



Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 16):
I wonder if this opens up the possibility of a regular 359 order to help replace some 777s........

UA has a significant A350-1000 order on the books.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5392
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:18 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):

UA has a significant A350-1000 order on the books.

I know, but they are more for 744 replacement. Some of the PW As and ERs are starting to get up there in age.

Plus the TXWB-84 and TXWB-97 are pretty different which is why I don't really see a small subfleet of just 359LRs for 1-2 ULH routes.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27459
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:22 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 18):
I know, but they are more for 744 replacement. Some of the PW As and ERs are starting to get up there in age.
UA will probably have less than 20 747-400s in the fleet when the first of their 35 A350-1000s arrive, so it stands to reason that a significant portion of those A350s will be used to replace (and up-gauge) current 777-200ER missions. Add the almost 45 787-9 and 787-10 they have on order, and the 777-200 fleet replacement should already be pretty much covered.


Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 18):
Plus the TXWB-84 and TXWB-97 are pretty different which is why I don't really see a small subfleet of just 359LRs for 1-2 ULH routes.

If they're all under RR TotalCare, which I fully expect, then UA doesn't care how (dis)similar they are as RR will be handling all maintenance.

[Edited 2015-12-09 06:23:37]
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5392
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:26 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
Add the almost 45 787-9 and 787-10 they have on order, and the 777-200 fleet replacement should already be pretty much covered.

I thought the bulk of those 787 orders were meant to replace the 35 763 fleet? I figured some of the 78Js would replace some 77-200A flying also.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):

UA will probably have less than 20 747-400s in the fleet when the first of their 35 A350-1000s arrive, so it stands to reason that a significant portion of those A350s will be used to replace (and up-gauge) current 777-200ER missions.

I figured we would see some extra frequency with the 35J to replace the 744 fleet (much like DL will only have 7 or 8 744s active as 359s start rolling in but they aren't planning to replace other aircraft with them)
even then 1 for 1 you are only talking about being able to replace 15 of the 70+ 777s.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18415
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:28 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
Who in their right mind would fly ULH with UA ?
Quoting NH203 (Reply 3):
We'll let's see what kind of J they put in these birds.
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):

Singapore Airlines would start flying the same route and kill them.

UA already commands a higher fare on SFOSIN and SFOHKG than SQ. If the point of sale is majority US based, UA will likely continue to command a premium over SQ if both offer a nonstop.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
slider
Posts: 7677
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:34 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
UA already commands a higher fare on SFOSIN and SFOHKG than SQ. If the point of sale is majority US based, UA will likely continue to command a premium over SQ if both offer a nonstop.

Not to mention SQ would be the beneficiary of beyond connects via Star codeshare.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15703
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:34 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):

Corporate accounts and Mileage Plus flyers come to mind.

Thanks for the laughs
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18415
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:37 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 23):
Not to mention SQ would be the beneficiary of beyond connects via Star codeshare.

Which direction? Beyond SIN there's not much to connect to, beyond SFO availability is probably shut down to the bare minimum on UA, hence the VX relationship
I don't take responsibility at all
 
jfk777
Posts: 7442
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting skairbus (Reply 5):
SQ is going to start flying non-stop to the US again. They announced it relatively recently and will use A350-900ULRs in a low density config to LAX and EWR/JFK.

We al know that SQ is coming back with nonstops.
 
avek00
Posts: 3256
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:59 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):

Singapore Airlines would start flying the same route and kill them.

Actually, it's SQ that would be at grave risk if UA launches SFO-SIN nonstop services. Remember, United can take passengers from the top 50-100 US markets and get them all onto a SFO-SIN nonstop; SQ cannot replicate that dynamic for a number of reasons.

Quoting slider (Reply 23):

Not to mention SQ would be the beneficiary of beyond connects via Star codeshare.

UA does not codeshare with SQ, and the proposed flight would need zero cooperation from SQ to work well.
Live life to the fullest.
 
SATexan
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:49 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:01 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
I agree. With a possibility of ORD / IAH down the road.

It willl be one heck of a long route from IAH to SIN. At about 10K miles I am not even sure if any aircraft is capable of doing this mission viably. Plus, the block time will be more than 21 hours?
 
777ord
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:04 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:11 pm

I doubt they'd start that service. Just because the capability exists and a certain market does. doesn't mean UAL will.. I couldn't imagine being in a UAL plane for that long. especially with that senior of people working it. yikes...
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2237
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:31 pm

Quoting SATexan (Reply 30):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
I agree. With a possibility of ORD / IAH down the road.

It willl be one heck of a long route from IAH to SIN. At about 10K miles I am not even sure if any aircraft is capable of doing this mission viably. Plus, the block time will be more than 21 hours?

It's much more likely this route would connect via SFO, especially an IAH passenger. We'd have to know how much demand/traffic is in it for UA when considering if they'd fly to SIN from more than just SFO. I tend to doubt it, especially with existing service from SQ but stranger things have happened.
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4821
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:32 pm

This would be quite interesting if it goes through. SFO-SIN is the logical choice given the hub there. I do wonder if a SEA-SIN on the 77L may be viable. Of course it's a smaller market than LAX and SFO, but SIN is a small market no matter how you slice it. You already have to connect somewhere to get there, so SEA-SIN could be a good option for some passengers.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 33):

Last time DL posted a smaller profit than UA and AA, you invoked DL 1086...
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
airbazar
Posts: 10250
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:33 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):

UA already commands a higher fare on SFOSIN and SFOHKG than SQ. If the point of sale is majority US based, UA will likely continue to command a premium over SQ if both offer a nonstop.

  
Hence why SQ served LAX non-stop instead of SFO, and intends to do so again.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 22):

SQ ordered what? 7 frames? 2 routes for 7 frames is a huge waste unless they intend more than 1x daily each.

SIN-GRU   

Quoting slider (Reply 23):

Not to mention SQ would be the beneficiary of beyond connects via Star codeshare.

SQ does not codeshare with UA.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 25):
3 frames per route is a pretty safe bet for ULH flying.

It's wasteful. They only needed 5 frames for those 2 routes before.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:42 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 35):
Last time DL posted a smaller profit than UA and AA, you invoked DL 1086...

You're being revisionist. It was mentioned when the DL folks were busy chest-thumping their world class maintenance program and safety record. It had nothing to do with profits.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 35):
but SIN is a small market no matter how you slice it.

Please tell that to UA and SQ. They both missed your memo. Apparently they're so dumb that UA sends 2x 77E daily to SIN, and SQ sends 2x 77W daily to SFO.
 
boilerla
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:30 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:45 pm

This route, like most ULH for US carriers, would only make sense while oil is at $40/barrel. No US carrier can match the cost structure of somebody like SQ. And I don't understand why they would add a subtype to the fleet to handle a couple of routes when they'll already be adding the 777W as a subtype.

IMHO if UA wants to add ULH routes they should focus on India, but if they're going to start spending $$$ again I'd rather just see a CS100 or E195 e2 order and/or more 787s to start replacing the 772s.
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4821
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:50 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 36):
Hence why SQ served LAX non-stop instead of SFO, and intends to do so again.

Well LAX is also just a larger market to most Asia/Pacific cities than is SFO, so given that SQ is relying much more heavily on SIN POS, it's really not surprising they chose LAX.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
Birdwatching
Posts: 3711
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:48 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:56 pm

Quoting NH203 (Reply 3):
We'll let's see what kind of J they put in these birds.

Right, J on United. The one with 8 seats across.

Soren   
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27459
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:00 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 40):
Right, J on United. The one with 8 seats across.

UA is rolling out a new Business Class product with the arrival of the A350 fleet and one expects it will follow the BusinessFirst model so at worse it will be 2+2+2, though I could very well see 1+2+1. Such a product would be the one UA would install on such a service should they launch it.
 
User avatar
OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4821
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:01 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 37):

See this is the problem, you're unwilling to have any sort of respectful conversation about these things, either as this persona or as a380787. You hurl insults instead of trying to make a well-reasoned point. Just because UA and SQ (and DL for that matter) send widebodies to the SIN everyday, does not make it a large market. It is a premium-heavy market, for sure, but it is not a large market from the US, or really from most of the world.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
United1
Posts: 4225
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:04 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 40):
Right, J on United. The one with 8 seats across.

UA is expected to announce a new J class product with the introduction of the 77Ws late next year...the old IPTE seats are being phased out.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 38):
And I don't understand why they would add a subtype to the fleet to handle a couple of routes when they'll already be adding the 777W as a subtype.

There isn't that much of a difference between the 350-1000 and the 350-900R when it comes to pilot training or air frame maintenance. UA has RR Total Care for the engines so not really a factor.

Same with the 77Ws...when you operate 74 777s already adding 10 more even as a sub type isn't that much of an issue.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
United1
Posts: 4225
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:06 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 42):
It is a premium-heavy market, for sure, but it is not a large market from the US, or really from most of the world.

Very true and it will probably mean the end of the HKG-SIN or NRT-SIN flight on UA as they will simply send those passengers non stop.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:08 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 42):
Just because UA and SQ (and DL for that matter) send widebodies to the SIN everyday, does not make it a large market. It is a premium-heavy market, for sure, but it is not a large market from the US, or really from most of the world.

And what's your point? Just because it's smaller than NRT or PEK therefore it's not worth the effort ? All I'm hearing from you is sour grapes because UA is leading in an area that DL is behind.

You really naively think SQ is flying 5x daily into mainland US, including 2 on A380s, for the fun of it ? Just because it's an area that Star excels at and Skyteam stinks at you have to dismiss it ?
 
Sightseer
Posts: 998
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:04 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:27 pm

Not surprising. I imagine UA at SFO would have the best chance of any US carrier to make USA-SIN work nonstop.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 42):
either as this persona or as a380787.

That makes so much sense.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 45):
You really naively think SQ is flying 5x daily into mainland US, including 2 on A380s, for the fun of it ?

It's all relative. On one hand, I'd say five daily flights is pretty impressive considering the distance from SIN to the USA. On the other hand, CX has five daily flights to NYC alone (of course, none are A380s).
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting Sightseer (Reply 46):

It's all relative. On one hand, I'd say five daily flights is pretty impressive considering the distance from SIN to the USA. On the other hand, CX has five daily flights to NYC alone (of course, none are A380s).

That's true of course. The ties with HKG (and the transfer market to mainland China) is far greater.

My point was to counter his assertion that SIN is a small tiny market that's totally not worth the effort, and he implies. It's ironic he expects a respectful conversation when his UA hatred is so blatant. And despite HKG being so much larger of a market than SIN, DL still has the least seats and least ASM from US mainland to HKG. So is it really a SIN/HKG problem, or a DL problem ?
 
jayunited
Posts: 3218
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:35 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Singapore Airlines would start flying the same route and kill them. IF UA were to do such a thing it would have to be from ORD or SFO, you can count on SQ starting a nonstop if United were to undertake such a flight.


I was thinking the exact same thing.

My hope is this both UA and SQ find a way to build a relationship and in time perhaps even apply for a JV. I know that there is history between these two airlines but I've learned to never say never. If both of these airlines can work out their differences who knows what could happen.

I think SQ would flight SIN-LAX, SIN-EWR/JFK, while UA would launch SFO-SIN to start and a few years later if there is demand perhaps launch ORD-SIN or an additional EWR-SIN.

I would love to see UA do this but I think they will need to build a partnership with SQ, UA will need to have a killer J product, and knockout soft product.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:46 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 48):

I think SQ would flight SIN-LAX, SIN-EWR/JFK, while UA would launch SFO-SIN to start and a few years later if there is demand perhaps launch ORD-SIN or an additional EWR-SIN.

There's a fleet consideration as well. Out of SFO ORD EWR, only SFO-SIN is doable with either 789 or 77W. For the other 2, basically UA must acquire either the 778 or 359ULH, and given that UA already has 350-1000 order in place, the 359ULH is far more likely. The 359ULH can also enhance the performance on routes to India as well as EWR-HKG.

I see this as SQ prematurely giving away their hand by announcing so early about the upcoming ULH plans, and essentially giving UA the time to possibly pre-empt them with SFO-SIN.

The biggest question becomes if both SQ and UA exists on SFO-SIN nonstop, can both survive at all ? And what SQ would do about their other 2 flights to SFO.
 
stratacruiser
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:07 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
Who in their right mind would fly ULH with UA ?

I do it several times per year. If you're a MP1K you do it because:

(1) You get a 11x multiplier on fare value - on a J ticket that can be orders of magnitude better than for equivalent class on *A partners
(2) If you buy Y, you have a reasonable chance of upgrade to J-cabin - not so on partners
(3) If you're in Y, you access to Y+ seating - those extra few inches of leg room make a big difference on ULH

Aside from that, UA's product isn't as bad as it's made out to be. Biggest disadvantage is the 8-across J seating on sUA aircraft. While I prefer the sCO J seat, I've had very comfortable flights on each. UA's coach product suffers on 744 aircraft due to lack of individual video screens, even with the new streaming option. However, having endured eleven hours in a BR 33" pitch seat with half the leg room taken up by the IVOD box, I'll take a UA 744 Y+.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:22 pm

Quoting stratacruiser (Reply 50):

(1) You get a 11x multiplier on fare value - on a J ticket that can be orders of magnitude better than for equivalent class on *A partners

This is a major factor. The best SQ J earns 125% on MP, with no elite bonus, so that's 8446 x 2 x 125% = 21,115 award miles. For UA, a $6000 fare ticket can already earn 66,000, and goes up to 75,000. (The cap is stupid but that's a different discussion)

Quoting stratacruiser (Reply 50):

Aside from that, UA's product isn't as bad as it's made out to be. Biggest disadvantage is the 8-across J seating on sUA aircraft. While I prefer the sCO J seat, I've had very comfortable flights on each. UA's coach product suffers on 744 aircraft due to lack of individual video screens, even with the new streaming option. However, having endured eleven hours in a BR 33" pitch seat with half the leg room taken up by the IVOD box, I'll take a UA 744 Y+.

Luckily, no 8-abreast PMUA J will be flying this route. It's either 2-2-2 if they throw a 789 tomorrow, or a 1-2-1 for the upcoming rumored config for 350/77W.
 
S75752
Posts: 1470
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:23 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 29):

UA does not codeshare with SQ, and the proposed flight would need zero cooperation from SQ to work well.

The SIN flights for SQ, let's be honest, were partly a pride thing, and it worked for SQ because they could show off a 5 star reputation to attract J flyers who actually cared.

Except it didn't work for SQ. Not a chance of it working for UA. They have better ultra-long routes to devote craft to trying out, especially if they have a codeshare on the other end of it.
 
YYZAMS
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:54 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:27 pm

Nah, AC will add SIN our of YVR soon.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13565
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: UA Mulls Non-Stop US-Singapore Flight

Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:28 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 1):
Who in their right mind would fly ULH with UA ?

What an odd statement. UA is no stranger to 16hr+ kind of flights, it's got three of them already, and they apparently do just fine.


Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 12):
Certainly possible with 77L. Maybe UA could convert a few of the upcoming 77Ws to 77Ls and start this really soo
Quoting airbazar (Reply 13):
It's probably a lot more efficient to do it with a 789 even with blocked seats.

That, or they could convert some of their A350s to A359ULR.


Quoting slider (Reply 23):
Not to mention SQ would be the beneficiary of beyond connects via Star codeshare.

There's not much of anything to connect to, beyond SIN.
Much more efficient (geography-wise, and via a JV) for UA to send Asian connections over NRT, and to a lesser extent HKG/ICN, than SIN. To anywhere.


Quoting OA412 (Reply 35):
I do wonder if a SEA-SIN on the 77L may be viable.

Almost certainly not, as SEA-HKG appears to struggle, and that's a stronger gateway + smaller aircraft.
Stands to reason that a weaker/further gateway, with a larger aircraft, would do even worse.


Quoting airbazar (Reply 36):
Hence why SQ served LAX non-stop instead of SFO,

Well, one of many reasons.


Quoting OA412 (Reply 42):
either as this persona or as a380787

You noticed the similarities in posting style/random accusations too, eh?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos