Gary Kelly today said that new reservation system will allow more customer experience changes in the future. While no current plans are in place, it will allow a more leg room section, assigned seats, and dual class. Lots of technology changes over next few years both commercial and operational.

More at:

http://skift.com/2015/12/10/southwes...-class-service-and-assigned-seats/

So, the RES system move to Amadeus is THREE to FIVE YEARS away?

LOL. #1: to even admit that is stunning. #2: it has always been 3 to 5 years away. It never gets any closer. I'm surprised Wall Street hasn't kicked them over the lost ancillary more. They will be crazily behind in areas like Preferred Coach by 2020. Of course, they will also continue to be limited in their ability to sell in foreign currencies as well. I guess G4 is not much different, but arguably G4 has a lot more room to expand before it really hinders their growth.

[Edited 2015-12-10 16:03:46]

Quoting enilria (Reply 1):

I listened to the conference call. The article is off on this... Amadeus should be mostly rolled out end of 2016. The 3 to 5 years is various operational software being rolled out.

If WN wanted a Business Class they could do it now. All it would take is to convert the 1st 4 rows from 3 abreast to 2 abreast seating. Then restrict those seats to passengers who bought Business Select. The F/As already have the names of those passengers, in addition they could keep their Boarding Pass to show to the F/A (just like the 1st person after Preboards). So Business Select would go from A1-15 to A1-16. No assigned seats needed and not having to wait for a change to a new reservation system.

Isn't it true that their archaic reservation system can't even cope with redeye flights?

Left unstated: the new system will allow for detailed nickle - and - diming (and dollaring) the customers to death like every other airline flying today.

Quoting bgm (Reply 4): Isn't it true that their archaic reservation system can't even cope with redeye flights?

There are some challenges due to the timing as the current system doesnt recognize the 25/26/27 etc when crews fly on redeyes.

IAD will soon have one close to it stating in June where the SAN flight departs the west coast in late evening and gets into IAD at 0145 est. but it's not a true redeye.

FLY

Quoting WesternDC6B (Reply 5): Left unstated: the new system will allow for detailed nickle - and - diming (and dollaring) the customers to death like every other airline flying today.

   Brace yourself--America's last quasi-full service airline is going to be another LCC-like carrier like DL UA AA etc.

WN will change in some ways to remain competitive. I do like the thoughts of bringing a premium product aboard WN. Lots of business travelers fly on Southwest, so why not? Glad to see WN thinking ahead, and weighing options. Will we ever see a first class on WN? I just could never see that happen. Sure would be cool though.

Any word on when WN will consider flying to Hawaii?

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 6): IAD will soon have one close to it stating in June where the SAN flight departs the west coast in late evening and gets into IAD at 0145 est. but it's not a true redeye.

It's a date change.. what's the difference?


Can anyone out there in IT/Res land tell me how a system that allows zones or groups doesn't allow seat assignments? 143 zones sounds like a fully seat-assigned plane.

I don't know whether I could see Southwest go to assigned seats and first class like every other airline, but I could see planes reconfigured to have extra legroom on, say, rows 1-12, and then make the first few rows an adjustable business section with the middle seat blocked out similar to the short haul business class product on many European airlines. Then you could have three boarding groups: Business Select, some sort of E+ for those who have paid for it, and then everyone else.

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 9): Can anyone out there in IT/Res land tell me how a system that allows zones or groups doesn't allow seat assignments? 143 zones sounds like a fully seat-assigned plane.

Well, as it is now, we don't board by "zones" we board by groups.. and those groups have nothing to do with the actual seating configuration of the plane. For example, if we are booked to 110 pax on a -500 and then the aircraft is swapped to an -800, the boarding process isn't affected AT ALL...it's exactly the same. The number at which you're "scanned into the flight" is more accurate for describing your "boarding position". Once onboard there's ZERO technology dedicated to where you are in the cabin. You get on, you sit down - period. We don't have seatmaps loaded into our computers so there's no ability to assign something we don't utilize or that doesn't even exist technologically within our system.

I've worked charters with assigned seats, but that's a manual process whereby the seats are assigned based on an aircraft seating chart we provide the customer. THEY assign the seats and then those assignments are usually written or otherwise communicated to each passenger by the charter organizer (NOT WN). ... and they usually have boarded back to front. I've also used partially assigned seats on certain charters, where some people had an assigned seat and most didn't. Those with an assigned seat boarded first. Sometimes it worked as above, other times someone came onboard and put name-plates in certain seats.

Quoting intotheair (Reply 10): I don't know whether I could see Southwest go to assigned seats and first class like every other airline, but I could see planes reconfigured to have extra legroom on, say, rows 1-12, and then make the first few rows an adjustable business section with the middle seat blocked out similar to the short haul business class product on many European airlines. Then you could have three boarding groups: Business Select, some sort of E+ for those who have paid for it, and then everyone else.

They only way you could do this is with assigned seats for Business Select and "E+". All others would enjoy the stampede to the rear with FA's standing guard on the unused BS and E+ seats. ( you can't sit here unless you paid for it rule)

Didn't AirTrans res system already offer all of these options? Seems like they should have used it.

I think Southwest would do very well with an extra legroom seating section. They could just make Business Select and extra legroom fare and make maybe the first 3 rows plus the exit rows business select.

While a slow progress, WN is really starting to invest in technology, something I acknowledge they have been severely lacking.

Quoting enilria (Reply 1): So, the RES system move to Amadeus is THREE to FIVE YEARS away?

As pointed out, no, this is incorrect, the res system should be up by the end of next year. But I like how you jumped on that immediately without fact checking.   

[Edited 2015-12-11 00:52:45]

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 9): It's a date change.. what's the difference?

Meaning 2400, 2500, 2600, 2700 etc...for some reason when the trips are put into the system the system resets to the next day and if i recall thinks the crew is on a new trip or something to that effect which then screws with their duty day / flight time etc.

FLY

I am very conservative when it comes to preserving Southwest Culture I am basically Bill O Riley when it comes to the topic.
I read the Article and the replies and I couldn't do anything but just feel anger. Southwest went through a rapid expansion post FL acquisition, but has recently slowed down, which gave me hope that there still could be that small ounce of that airline who took me on my first flight when I was 6 months old (With the brownleather seats and seats facing each other! boy does it make me nostalgic) is still there.
The core that holds Southwest culture is that southwest is DIFFERENT from the other guys. Every customer that flies southwest is in one way feels equal to one another because "everyone is in first class" and nobody is telling you where you have to sit.
What angers me most is that thousands of people(My mother and grandfather included) have invested decades of their lives to this company to make it different, and then this new generation comes along(dear lord I am really starting to sound like Bill Riley) and tries to mold Southwest into one of the company's that these long time employees strived to make southwest not.

In terms of Gary, well...I recently spoke to some of my mothers colleagues who are also long time Southwest employees. They said something I could somewhat agree with. They spoke along the lines of how when Gary first came into this position everyone liked him, and a lot of people still do, however they somewhat knew he might come down this path since "Gary is a business man who likes numbers while Herb is a people person". So at this time I think I am officially done with Gary Kelly(when I was in the 5th grade I wrote Gary Kelly a letter, he responded! he also gave me a signed basketball that had southwest planes in it flying in clouds. So this is personally hard for me to say). I do think It is time that we see some new leadership.

Sorry to express this rant, It has just been on my mind a lot recently.

[Edited 2015-12-11 02:30:01]

Instead of becoming like every other carrier in the US, how about they start installing chargers under the seats?

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 14): Quoting enilria (Reply 1): So, the RES system move to Amadeus is THREE to FIVE YEARS away? As pointed out, no, this is incorrect, the res system should be up by the end of next year. But I like how you jumped on that immediately without fact checking.

The article says seat assignment is 5 years away. That would be available on day 1 of the new system. So, if the article is wrong then the fact checking is theirs not mine.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 17): Instead of becoming like every other carrier in the US, how about they start installing chargers under the seats?

Like Delta and Alaska, you mean?  

It really points to the age and weaknesses of fundamental WN systems when the headline is, in effect, in three or four years Southwest will have capabilities that UA/AA/DL (and Pan Am, Eastern, TWA) had in the mid-80s.

The new RES system will be able to handle JetBlue flights when they merge!
 

Flyguy

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 20):

.........BINGO!

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8): Any word on when WN will consider flying to Hawaii?

IIRC, some WN employee mentioned in another thread they're waiting for the new
738 Max aircraft to start Hawaii service

WN had a business class, it was called AirTran

Quoting enilria (Reply 1): So, the RES system move to Amadeus is THREE to FIVE YEARS away?

Quoting enilria (Reply 18): The article says seat assignment is 5 years away. That would be available on day 1 of the new system. So, if the article is wrong then the fact checking is theirs not mine.

No.

The cutover to Amadeus Altea is scheduled in 2016. The MERCHANDISING piece is what still may take some time.

Please, do not confuse the two and misstate information in such a hyperbolic way. The article clearly states that it is CURRENTLY upgrading is reservations system as the domestic portion is still hosted on Sabre SAAS and the international piece is hosted on Altea. The unification will come later on next year.

The ability to merchandise ancillary purchases is what will take an additional period of time. This is clearly delineated in the article.

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 21): The new RES system will be able to handle JetBlue flights when they merge!

For the 100 time, and from internal people, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! B6 shareholders have zero interest and will not allow it. They would lose the majority of their NYC/Florida/Boston clientele when they see the superior product diminished to just a seat with canned water and peanuts. I know wn has envious eyes and wishes they shouldn't of canned neeleman back before he took his ideas and began JetBlue. But wn had to buck buck up and deal with what they got.

And for the 100th time, if you think that "internal people" would have any clue about the next acquisition, you are sadly mistaken.

The AirTran acquisition came out of nowhere - save the logical speculation of people paying attention. Not unlike what we're seeing now wrt to JetBlu.

Will it happen? Who knows. But to categorically state it won't happen because of "internal people" is very short sighted.

Quoting irishayes (Reply 24):

The article clearly states that seat assignment technology is 3-5 years away. That is a base feature of the Amadeus product and the technology for that is available immediately at cutover. Those are facts. If the article is wrong then blame the writer.

Quoting enilria (Reply 27): The article clearly states that seat assignment technology is 3-5 years away. That is a base feature of the Amadeus product and the technology for that is available immediately at cutover. Those are facts. If the article is wrong then blame the writer.

Yes, but seat assignment at reservation has never existed on intra-European flights, and no longer exists for certain US domestic flights. It's seat assignment at check-in.
So, my point is that it is not because the reservation system allows for seat assignment that the airline will use it.
It will up to WN to decide what to do with it.

Quoting enilria (Reply 1): I'm surprised Wall Street hasn't kicked them over the lost ancillary more.

Wall Street does criticize WN for not charging for checked bags and other items that other competitors do. Kelly has said repeatedly that the revenue gained from checked bags, change fees, and the like would be more than offset by the revenue lost from passengers who solely fly WN because of the lack of checked bag fees and change fees.

It appears that Wall Street believes that people choose an airline because of employer preference, base fare, or schedule and not because of the ancillary charges.

I know people who, if flying for a day-trip or overnight trip, will fly UA or AA out of ORD. But, if they need to check a bag, they will fly WN out of MDW, because the WN fare is usually cheaper than AA or UA with the checked-bag fee.

The same is true if a trip has an uncertain return date.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 28): It will up to WN to decide what to do with it.

But the Altea platform includes seat assignment as a base feature, like all systems. Yes, it is optional, but the article says WN won't be able to implement it for 3-5 years which is where the confusion comes in. It should be implementable at cutover.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 29): Wall Street does criticize WN for not charging for checked bags and other items that other competitors do. Kelly has said repeatedly that the revenue gained from checked bags, change fees, and the like would be more than offset by the revenue lost from passengers who solely fly WN because of the lack of checked bag fees and change fees.

If people are flying WN solely because of the bag fee issue then that is not a strong commentary on WN. I would say WN's most attractive feature and the one that has gotten them to where they is superior flight frequency to the other guys...as well as mainline vs RJ product.

Well guys... first hand knowledge here. The Altea cutover is not 2016.Its 2017 and its slipped to 3Q2017.

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 31): Well guys... first hand knowledge here. The Altea cutover is not 2016.Its 2017 and its slipped to 3Q2017.

Wow...So, I'm back to my initial comments.

Southwest's existing customer base seeks it out precisely because it is different. And is very loyal because it is different.

Make it indistinguishable from any other airline, and its customer base will end up being just like any other airline.

I guess they decided that they'd rather not be different. I usually think different is special, but I guess they don't anymore.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 35): More like: they're continuing to find out that the benefit of "being different" is paying off less and less, as time goes by.

Or Wall Street is telling them that it is, anyway.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 20): The new RES system will be able to handle JetBlue flights when they merge!

Sure hope this happens at some point.

Quoting barney captain (Reply 26): But to categorically state it won't happen because of "internal people" is very short sighted.

Agreed.

Quoting enilria (Reply 27): The article clearly states that seat assignment technology is 3-5 years away. That is a base feature of the Amadeus product and the technology for that is available immediately at cutover. Those are facts. If the article is wrong then blame the writer.

You didn't say seat assignments, you said res system.

Quoting enilria (Reply 1): So, the RES system move to Amadeus is THREE to FIVE YEARS away?

Maybe the article was wrong, but so were you accordingly. Just accept it.

Quoting AllegiantFlyer (Reply 16): Gary is a business man who likes numbers while Herb is a people person

Herb seems like a great person and he ran a great airline but I truly think that if Herb had continued running the airline, it would not have survived the recession. Southwest needed a numbers guy and they got it. Now Southwest is running with record profits and it still has a great culture (maybe not as great, but still great).

The old Southwest was not going to survive through the decade of hell in the airline industry with Herb. That's my opinion and you can absolutely say I am wrong but that is what I think. Gary made the tough decisions that I don't think Herb would have been willing to make to help the airline survive and now thrive.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 33): There, fixed it for ya.

Dude, just stop. Sunshine pumping and trying to justify the fact that airlines charge nowadays what they used to include in a ticket is not valid, and your method is a bit condescending. You can spin it as "but they were just hiding the fees," but that doesn't fly either. Example: I flew DUS-ZRH last year on Swiss for 99 Euro r/t with one free checked bag. Now that same 99 Euro fare doesn't include a free checked bag, which now costs an extra 20 Euro. Same fare as before, bags now cost extra. And the US airlines did exactly the same thing...all in the name of "higher fuel costs"...while neglecting to acknowledge their own mismanagement got them into that mess in the first place.

I saw some talk above about Wall Street not being happy about WN not jumping on the ancillary fees. Sure WN could add more profit to the bottom line. However, the 2 free bags is a winner for travellers on a budget. Many airlines who started charging for bags, food, and every fee known to man.... Chose the ancillary fees because of high oil prices. Well, oil is down big time, and the fees remain. Most airlines are still charging a fuel charge as well. Frequent fliers are very aware of the scheme. WN has attracted lots of business travelers who would rather budget their air travel.

WN still differs from most other US Carriers. The airline is still profitable. The dust is finally starting to settle from Air Tran. I still think that merger was a mistake, but oh well. Am I the only one who misses Air Tran?

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 22): IIRC, some WN employee mentioned in another thread they're waiting for the new 738 Max aircraft to start Hawaii service

Awesome news! I guess if I can survive sitting in coach on a 737-800, and save a few bucks? WN will likely get my money.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 33): Quoting WesternDC6B (Reply 5):the new system will allow for detailed nickle - and - diming (and dollaring) the customers to death giving the customers what they actually pay for, and not giving them what they don't, like every other airline flying today. There, fixed it for ya

Many people, myself included, cannot stand to be nickled and dimed left and right, even if that means paying a bit more and not feeling cheated if they are serving a snack and I decide to pass, or if they have 5000 channels and I just want to sleep.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 39): Am I the only one who misses AirTran?

I absolutely miss AirTran, they were always my go-to airline but I actually enjoy Southwest more now.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 39): I still think that merger was a mistake

Definitely not for Southwest.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 40): Many people, myself included, cannot stand to be nickled and dimed left and right, even if that means paying a bit more and not feeling cheated if they are serving a snack and I decide to pass, or if they have 5000 channels and I just want to sleep.

That was my point, Reply 33's patronizing "FIFY" of my comment notwithstanding.

When I stay at a hotel, I am paying for the cable television I do not watch, the business center I seldom - if ever - utilize, and the fitness center and pool I do not use. Do I snivel about it? No. It's just how it is.

What I DO mind is when an airline wants to gouge me with ridiculous change fees even for flights that are never full and even with several days' notice. My business flying days often included changes I knew about in plenty of time, but still got gouged. A small fee is an annoyance; Delta wanting a change fee that was more than the cost of the entire round-trip full-price ticket in the first place is GOUGING. I finally found an agent who got it more or less straightened out to my satisfaction, but it should not have taken three phone-calls to resolve. One way tickets? Fine, except for too-high pricing and red flags set for the (alleged) "security" people.

WN's change-fee policies have always been reasonable, and should be what the rest of the industry uses. As for the baggage fees: weight carried in the overhead bins costs as much to transport as weight in the hold; boarding times and conditions have become a free-for-all performance of baggage-bin-ballet, and delays far more frequent.

Change fees should be high enough to include an airlines standard profit margin, plus whatever they lose from people just gaming the system. Fees much higher than that are 'gotcha' ripoffs, and are telling customers they really don't like them. What's new, the new American way?

Quoting frmrCapCadet (Reply 43): What's new, the new American way?

Not sure about the American way, but was sure Delta's!   

All I have to say if Southwest puts a First Class in, they will have a new customer for life!!!!! I live in Dallas and love flying out of Dallas Love Field. I flew CO/UA out of DAL everywhere till they subleased their gated to WN. I have never flow on WN because of lack of First Class and assigned seats. They put in First Class and I will fly them everywhere non stop from DAL and use them other places too! I really don't care about prices. I want great service and convenience.

It seems to me the appeal of WN has historically been the pricing. (I.e. LCC). Over the past few years I've noticed not much difference when compared to the legacy carriers. I think they may need to do something when I can get economy plus or even business class for same or cheaper fare. For me and my business travel, comfort and seat pitch matter when fares are comparable.

Take for example a recent booking I made from OKC to SJO (Costa Rica). Southwest business select fare on 1/13-1/18 prices at $1135 round trip. United in business class surprisingly is cheaper at $986!! Why would anyone consider booking this it on WN. I've run into similar findings on recent business trips.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 20):

Nah JetBlue has invested heavily in Datalex. When they buy Southwest they'll keep that system...

Quoting WesternDC6B (Reply 42): When I stay at a hotel, I am paying for the cable television I do not watch, the business center I seldom - if ever - utilize, and the fitness center and pool I do not use. Do I snivel about it? No. It's just how it is.

This is exactly why I will never stay at a W Hotel again (unless no other choice). They actually wanted to charge hotel guests $30 (or it may have been $20) to go in the sauna, not to mention the room was literally full of items with price tags hanging off of them.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 48): This is exactly why I will never stay at a W Hotel again. (unless no other choice)

What is a W hotel? Wynn? (Best) Western? Westin? Just curious, and thanks for the warning.