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Miami
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KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:40 am

Starting May 5, 2016, KLM will launch AMS-SLC service on board an A330-200. Will be twice a week (Day 46), and will increase to 3 weekly (Day 146) from July 4, 2016.

Quote:
KL609 AMS1230 – 1450SLC 332 146
KL610 SLC1650 – 1020+1AMS 332 146

From 05SEP16, schedule revised to the following:
KL609 AMS1020 – 1240SLC 332 146
KL610 SLC1450 – 0820+1AMS 332 146
http://airlineroute.net/2015/12/15/kl-slc-may16/


Congrats to KLM and SLC!


-Miami   
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AWACSooner
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:49 am

Having flown KL from AMS to ATL last month, I would MUCH rather fly them than DL across the pond. Here's hoping this route sticks and goes daily.
 
FlyingHollander
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:13 pm

Will this be on top of the current DL service?
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
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airkas1
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:33 pm

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 2):
Will this be on top of the current DL service?

According to Luchtvaartnieuws, yes.
 
FlyingHollander
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:42 pm

I remember quite some people being sceptical about SLC. This really proves them wrong.

I think AMS is probably the most logical destination in Europe for SLC. Great feed at both ends, plenty of Dutch going to Utah for leisure and SLC is a known name for the Dutch as aposed to for example DEN or PHX.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
Scorp82
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:48 pm

KL commencing SLC is definitely a surprise. I wish them success!
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:49 pm

Good for SLC. Is it once-daily SLC-AMS on DL right now?

I sure wish they'd pick up one/some of the DTW-AMS frequencies again    I'd love to see some KLM blue around.
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tlecam
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:19 pm

I wonder if DL would go to 4x weekly, with KL doing the other days?

DL seems to do allt he flying from these cities: BOS, DTW, MSP, SEA, EWR.

KL seems to do all the flying to ORD, IAH, SFO, IAD

They both operate JFK, ATL, LAX and now SLC.

I find the SLC add interesting to that list - it's not really like JFK, LAX, ATL...
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
FSDan
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:32 pm

Very cool! It looks like the DL and KL flights will be about 2 hours apart. The DL flight leaves SLC at 2:41pm and the KL flight will leave at 4:50pm. Both are operated by the A330-200.

At this point the biggest hole in KL's U.S. route network is Florida. I hope KL will either restart AMS-MIA or try AMS-MCO next winter.
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clrd4t8koff
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:34 pm

Good for SLC! I would give anything for KL to take over one of DL's BOS-SLC flights.
 
B747forever
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:36 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 7):
They both operate JFK, ATL, LAX and now SLC.

DL does not fly LAX-AMS.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
flyoregon
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:27 pm

Very surprising!

Especially considering KLM doesn't even fly to MSP or DTW which are bigger DL hubs than SLC. Be interesting to see how it plays out...
 
FSDan
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:54 pm

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 9):
I would give anything for KL to take over one of DL's BOS-SLC flights.

I assume you meant BOS-AMS rather than BOS-SLC. Otherwise you will be waiting a long time...
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:59 pm

Remember that with the joint venture DL-KL-AF make joint decision on scheduling, operating carrier, and revenue as one.

This isn't KL making these decisions independently. DL appears to have wanted to added additional peak day frequency/capacity on SLC-AMS and DL is operating a daily A332 and KL is operating 2-3x weekly additional peak day A332 for a total of 9-10x flights a week.

A lot of the operating carrier depends on a) keeping the share of flying within the JV at an acceptable balance b) aircraft availability/size, c) ease of aircraft routing and crew scheduling. d) brand recognition of each in the respective market.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:49 pm

Jeez, this is a surprise, who knew SLC could generate such international traffic?

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 4):
plenty of Dutch going to Utah for leisure and SLC is a known name for the Dutch as aposed to for example DEN or PHX.


The quote comes again as a surprise. I had no idea that Utah was a destination for the Dutch - Utah and the states adjacent have some stunning scenery, but I did not realize it was a big draw for Europeans. I am also surprised hearing that SLC is better known to the Dutch than Denver.

It would be interesting to see the research KLM undertook support this route.

Is the traffic into/out of SLC expected to be O/D or will the passengers be largely transiting through SLC to other destinations?
 
Amsterdam
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:07 pm

It's known because of the olympics. The Dutch like speed skating.
Just like Lillehammer Nagano Albertville and Sotsji, Salt Lake City wouldn't be that well known at all without the olympics.

[Edited 2015-12-15 10:21:53]
 
as739x
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 14):
Is the traffic into/out of SLC expected to be O/D or will the passengers be largely transiting through SLC to other destinations?

I'd have to say transit as it starts in May. There is an enormous amount of connections in the mountain and pacific time zones. Though KL should attract a lot of Euro traffic in the winter for skiing in the nearby resorts during the winter. I've been to SLC twice in the winter time for training and was blown away by the amount of European skiers there.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Utah744
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:01 pm

USD-Euro exchange rate make US to Europe travel attractive. Utah as a destination (not just SLC) has been receiving lots of attention in the media mostly the National Parks and other geographical tourist destinations. It will be nice to see those blue (new paint hopefully) 332's in SLC.
You are never too old to learn something stupid
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:17 pm

Pretty impressive that on peak-days SLC will have up to 4 Trans-Atlantic departures in Summer 2016.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:18 pm

That whole region is very popular in summer with Europeans. They fly into say SLC,DEN, LAS and then out one of the others. Lots of park visits etc SLC Europe o&d will probably increase significantly over time with all these new non-stops. SLC Fares use to always be much higher so its becoming more of a fly in option. DEN almost always use to be cheaper to Europe even if you bought a roundtrip on southwest as many do.

Well be nice to see KLM is SLC. I woudlnt be surprised if DL reduces somewhat, SLC has alot of seats to Europe all of a sudden. Not a bad problem to have, great one stop connections to almost anywhere, great for business in an area that business is booming.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 18):
Pretty impressive that on peak-days SLC will have up to 4 Trans-Atlantic departures in Summer 2016.

Yeah that would be hard to imagine in 2005. SLC airport is on such a roll in that timeframe its crazy and new terminals are coming!

AMS must be killing it. CDG has proven for years there is demand including premium cabin, LHR i cant imagine wont be something they can fill.
 
SLCLAXKIXKHH
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:25 pm

Is the new KLM flight going to be seasonal?
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LAX772LR
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:27 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 7):
They both operate JFK, ATL, LAX and now SLC.

DL isn't on LAX, it's unfortunately just a KL 747, usually combi.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:55 pm

Wow, kind of a surprise to me...would like to see them at MCO.
 
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tlecam
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 10):

DL does not fly LAX-AMS.

Sorry about that - I don't know what I was thinking. Thanks for the correction.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
Joost
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:14 pm

Looking in KLMs booking engine, it seems like AMS-DFW is no longer offered. I checked for various dates in June 2016. AMS-DFW was originally planned to resume by May 2016. Maybe AMS-SLC replaces the A332 here.
 
Birdwatching
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:44 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 14):
The quote comes again as a surprise. I had no idea that Utah was a destination for the Dutch - Utah and the states adjacent have some stunning scenery, but I did not realize it was a big draw for Europeans. I am also surprised hearing that SLC is better known to the Dutch than Denver.

Many Europeans love to travel to Utah, the Rockies, Arizona and California. The National Park loop through Southern Utah is very popular. Germans typically travel through Las Vegas.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 8):
At this point the biggest hole in KL's U.S. route network is Florida. I hope KL will either restart AMS-MIA

Which is strange, as I have read several times here on A.net that Miami is the best city in the world in about every context, and every airline in the world (including the one flying a DC3 in New Zealand) has plans for their Miami route, which they are going to announce "any day now".

Soren   
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henkie8
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:50 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 26):

In june flight to DFW is still operating
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:09 pm

Will DL handle the KL flights out of SLC?

Quoting Joost (Reply 25):
Looking in KLMs booking engine, it seems like AMS-DFW is no longer offered. I checked for various dates in June 2016. AMS-DFW was originally planned to resume by May 2016. Maybe AMS-SLC replaces the A332 here.

I will be devastated if that's the case.
 
hooverman
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:14 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 28):
Will DL handle the KL flights out of SLC?

I would be surprised if it they wouldn't.

[Edited 2015-12-15 13:15:44]
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:16 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 25):
Looking in KLMs booking engine, it seems like AMS-DFW is no longer offered. I checked for various dates in June 2016. AMS-DFW was originally planned to resume by May 2016. Maybe AMS-SLC replaces the A332 here.
Quoting henkie8 (Reply 27):
In june flight to DFW is still operating

The flight is all zeros. DFW-AMS is gone.

Quoting irishayes (Reply 28):
I will be devastated if that's the case.

Yep, but it appears thats the reality.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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airbuseric
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:20 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 1):

Having flown KL from AMS to ATL last month, I would MUCH rather fly them than DL across the pond.

Well, KLM's A332's are not really something to get excited about   It's good that these machines are on their way out!
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
 
AWACSooner
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:37 pm

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 31):
Well, KLM's A332's are not really something to get excited abou

Yah, but their service compared to DL's is waay better...and, imo, DL is the best of the three US carriers when it comes to trans-Atlantic carriers in Y service.
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:02 pm

Does AF still serve SLC or did it not work for them?
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting Curiousflyer (Reply 33):
Does AF still serve SLC or did it not work for them?

DL flies SLC-CDG. AF never did.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Joost
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:57 pm

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 31):
Well, KLM's A332's are not really something to get excited about   It's good that these machines are on their way out!

Two of them aren't that bad. PH-AOL and PH-AOM were delivered after the Koito scandal and have the NEV3 seat in C (like the 333 and the first 8 77Ws), and have quite a nice interior in Y, including mood lighting.

The other 6 which will not leave the fleet this winter will be the only aircraft left in the KLM fleet with the old Koito WBC seat and are indeed not that spectacular. DLs 330s with their full flat, all-aisle access seats have a superior hard product. (same seats as KLM 787)
 
YYZAMS
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:24 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 30):
The flight is all zeros. DFW-AMS is gone.

KLM DFW AMS is seasonal
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 36):
KLM DFW AMS is seasonal

Not anymore it isn't. Its gone.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
JAAlbert
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:40 am

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 26):
Many Europeans love to travel to Utah, the Rockies, Arizona and California. The National Park loop through Southern Utah is very popular. Germans typically travel through Las Vegas.

I must admit that the "National Park Loop" is among the most majestic scenery on the planet. It's just monumental and stunning. I hope more Europeans get to experience the southwest USA because it's something special. I hope KL does well!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:53 am

They seem to have been unusually clear this is in addition to Delta. I was thinking they might decline some delta, but after seeing their own words they are pretty clear this is in addition. SLC-AMS must have done super well last Summer to announce this. They clearly have data and think they can fill the extra seats of the more than daily flights.
 
BravoOne
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:17 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 14):
The quote comes again as a surprise. I had no idea that Utah was a destination for the Dutch - Utah and the states adjacent have some stunning scenery, but I did not realize it was a big draw for Europeans. I am also surprised hearing that SLC is better known to the Dutch than Denver.

Europeans can travel south through the beautiful canyon country and catch LAS/Grand Canyon at the same time. They do it all the time 
 
paneuropean
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:11 am

Will the succes of this seasonal route go year round now that there are 10weekly summer flights?. I assume Delta will continue this route at least 4 times weekly during the winter.
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:40 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 12):

I assume you meant BOS-AMS rather than BOS-SLC. Otherwise you will be waiting a long time...

Ha, yes. Coffee hadn't kicked in yet   
 
bmacleod
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:53 pm

Quoting airkas1 (Reply 3):

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 2):
Will this be on top of the current DL service?

According to Luchtvaartnieuws, yes.

If most of DL pax market on SLC-AMS finds KL much better than DL then DL might drop mainline and go codeshare on KL.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
bmacleod
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:24 pm

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 6):
Is it once-daily SLC-AMS on DL right now?

Currently no non-stop DL service for SLC-AMS; only connecting though MSP and ATL.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:08 pm

DL operated daily SLC-AMS in Summer 2015.

The service ended for the season at the end of October, and is returning daily with a 763ER on March 26, 2016 when the spring trans-atlantic flying restarts.

The incremental KLM service starts in May 2016 adding additional flights/capacity to take total service DL+KL up to 10x/week during peak summer.
 
FSDan
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:29 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 45):
DL operated daily SLC-AMS in Summer 2015.

The service ended for the season at the end of October, and is returning daily with a 763ER on March 26, 2016 when the spring trans-atlantic flying restarts.

The incremental KLM service starts in May 2016 adding additional flights/capacity to take total service DL+KL up to 10x/week during peak summer.

Also, the DL flight is getting upgauged from a 763 to a 332 for the summer.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:53 pm

One thing to keep in mind is how the daily seats/capacity on US-AMS is going to be allocated in Summer 2016 across the DL hubs and gateways.

In Summer 2015 vs the current schedule for 2016 while there are the same number of flights there are fewer seats on DTW/ATL-AMS in part since last year they were flying the 744 where as this year they are not and there are more A332/767s showing up. It is somewhat of a shell game. There is ultimately some degree of connect traffic that doesn't matter what hub if flows over and for some western markets makes more sense to flow over SLC versus DTW, MSP, or ATL.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:06 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 45):
The service ended for the season at the end of October, and is returning daily with a 763ER on March 26, 2016 when the spring trans-atlantic flying restarts.

The incremental KLM service starts in May 2016 adding additional flights/capacity to take total service DL+KL up to 10x/week during peak summer.

Presumably, the KL flight will operate year-round while DL will remain summer seasonal between SLC and AMS.

Is that correct?

Please confirm.

TY.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8529
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RE: KLM To Start Salt Lake City

Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:27 pm

Right now it isn't clear if SLC-AMS is going to be operated year-round as it was not for this year.

The route started in May 2015 and ramped-up to daily DL 763ER in Summer 2015 and ended for the season in November 2015

Right now, it is schedule to return for Spring 2016 with the daily DL 763ER then the A332. KL is going to operate the additional 2-3x flights per week during the summer period.

It is unclear if DL/KL is going to operate SLC-AMS year-round, and right now the answer is probably not, as SLC-CDG is year round and AMS & LHR are seasonal. If they do keep it year-round it will likely be DL continuing to operate the 763ER though.

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