dubaiamman243
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Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:12 pm

Mr. Willie Walsh, CEO of IAG has warned that he will grow BA out of Ireland or Spain if their is no final decision regarding the 3rd runway at LHR. His comments come after the Government announced a final decision on whether to build a new runway at Heathrow Airport has been put off until at least next summer.

source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/avia...-elsewhere-warns-Willie-Walsh.html
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
commavia
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:28 pm

I don't believe he actually said he'll "move BA," but rather that IAG will simply focus its investments in growth in Ireland and Spain, but in any event I think he is exactly right - this comically ridiculous soap opera has gone on long enough, and if the politicians are serious about making the U.K. an economically vibrant place to travel and do business, it's time to put their money where their mouth is. As much as I love the U.K., it is simply breathtaking to me that there has been this much time wasted to make a decision that so clearly and obviously provides such immense economic benefit to not only London and the southeast, but the entire country.
 
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cosyr
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
I don't believe he actually said he'll "move BA," but rather that IAG will simply focus its investments in growth in Ireland and Spain

He could move the HQ's
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:30 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
I don't believe he actually said he'll "move BA," but rather that IAG will simply focus its investments in growth in Ireland and Spai

It makes sense. Moving BA would simply be catastrophic for IAG.
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:30 pm

Go ahead, Willie.

Nothing worse than an idle threat.
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par13del
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:35 pm

Reality check, he has done enough already to make his point, as long as the carrier continues to bear the name BA and operate so many flights from LHR, who cares that he has merged with IB and placed BA under the IAG banner, that he now has the ability to grow the fortunes of the holding company via hubs on the continent.
In the eyes of the LHR loyalist, the traffic at LHR surpasses that of any other EU hub, folks are not paying millions for EU slots, etc etc etc.
So, nothing to see here, move along, move along.

Suggest the comments above be added as another of the A.Net inviolate truths  
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:37 pm

He could order more A380s   
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:48 pm

[quote=par13del,reply=5]who cares that he has merged with IB and placed BA under the IAG banner, that he now has the ability to grow the fortunes of the holding company via hubs on the continent.[/quote

Indeed, it was the stated purpose of acquiring EI and IB, so not sure why this is news. He should just get on with expanding wherever he can. Clearly it won't be at LHR any time soon, so he should pick up the pace in DUB and MAD.
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:49 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 6):

He could order more A380s   


T5 couldn't handle tha added pax volume. Also A380s require more spacing out, etc.
 
ahmetdouas
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:54 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 8):

How about a T5D? = )
 
AirbusA6
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:54 pm

I thought BA/IAG were worried that a new runway at LHR would give their rivals more slots, and also worried about the cost?

By all means grown Dublin and Madrid, but the lucrative C and F customers in London won't be using them.
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:58 pm

Quoting Dubaiamman243 (Thread starter):
Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA  
Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
I don't believe he actually said he'll "move BA,"
"If the Government continues to dither over a new runway, then I'll move my business elsewhere."
I was surprised too.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 3):
It makes sense. Moving BA would simply be catastrophic for IAG.

Yes, he can only move the growth. LHR is a license to print money.

I can see this being used as a justification to move the HQ, although they would lose a lot if they were not seen as a British airline.
 
ahmetdouas
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:02 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 10):
QUOTE SELECTED TEXT
_

Yes, but with a new runway i think BA could stop its LGW hub all together and save a lot of money.
 
winginit
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:24 pm

Oh goodness I guess this is what happens when you spend too much time with AAB.

There's nothing to this.
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:34 pm

Or that famous quote, "Nobody goes there anymore, its too crowded".
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tortugamon
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:50 pm

So they should make a decision on LHR and there needs to be more room for growth yet he is against a third runway because it will come at the cost of his passengers? So, exactly what is he arguing for exactly? More capacity at LHR benefits U2 more than BA.

tortugamon
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:13 pm

Quoting ahmetdouas (Reply 9):
How about a T5D? = )

T5D would still process pax through the main T5 terminal which is pretty much a mad house at the best of times.
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:03 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 10):
I thought BA/IAG were worried that a new runway at LHR would give their rivals more slots, and also worried about the cost?

I was thinking of that myself; I'm glad IAG/BA/WW has changed their tune! Mind you it kind of weakens their message to be changing their mind.

The dithering over the third runway does seem to have had the effect of uniting opinion, particularly in the business community in favour of the third runway (not that there was much doubt that they would).

I guess the recent agreement on the environment in Paris was bad timing and it would have made bad political sense to announce a new runway within these of this new agreement, so I see the point of delaying, but six months is unfortunate!

Quoting frmrCapCadet (Reply 14):
Or that famous quote, "Nobody goes there anymore, its too crowded".

 
 
tonystan
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:16 pm

BA HQ won't relocate but there is very strong rumour that IAG wish to set up its HQ in Ireland in order to benefit from handsome government tax relief!
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LSZH34
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:04 pm

yeah why not leave? EK can then fly 24 times daily to LHR with an A380.   
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:20 pm

Reply 8, posted Wed Dec 16 2015 00:49:07 your local time (5 hours 23 minutes 2 secs ago) and read 2821 times:
[/quote]

"Take my business elsewhere" has a completely different meaning to moving British Airways. That's just lazy and sensationalist journalism, but then again the Telegraph is only marginally better than the Daily Mail.

BA aren't about to de-hub LHR, there just will be very little expansion there. That's not a hollow threat, the likes of AMS and DXB have been taking LHR for a ride for decades.
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jacobin777
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:22 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 4):

Go ahead, Willie.

Nothing worse than an idle threat.

It might not be idle at all. IAG can certainly expand and invest in different locations outside of London.
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 4):
Nothing worse than an idle threat.

I don't see it as "idle".

In the direct quotes in the article, he doesn't mention British Airways, nor is he CEO of British Airways.

Willie Walsh is CEO of IAG, and it's up to him to decide where he will put IAG's capital growth.

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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:36 pm

I dont believe BA for one second. LHR slots are so hot, they shouldnt get pressured to do anything by BA, they ain't going anywhere. Can they invest in other locations sure, but will LHR always be the main hub and primary airport of course. I dont see them giving up anything.
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:38 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 23):
I dont see them giving up anything.

As above, nobody is talking about "giving up" anything.

mariner
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ahmetdouas
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:42 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 16):

Much better than Stansted's best times even at the worst times believe me!

And if you want T5 nice and quiet, try the 21:40 LHR-ATH leg, what a joy that terminal is at that hour!
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:57 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):
but then again the Telegraph is only marginally better than the Daily Mail.

The Telegraph article actually originates from the Daily Mail. Here is the relevant extract from the Telegraph article:

Writing in the Daily Mail, Mr Walsh said: 'We're a small island, and this Government looks set to make us even smaller on the world stage. Our leaders bestride the world saying the UK is open for business, but their actions do not match the rhetoric.'
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:10 pm

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 21):
It might not be idle at all. IAG can certainly expand and invest in different locations outside of London.
Quoting mariner (Reply 22):
Willie Walsh is CEO of IAG, and it's up to him to decide where he will put IAG's capital growth.

The whole idea of forming IAG as the union of BA, IB and EI was to do just this kind of thing. Therefore IMHO he should just get on with it instead of making threats he knows will change nothing. If it's in IAG's best interest to invest elsewhere, get on with it and start reaping the benefits now! If it isn't, making idle threats only weakens IAG's leverage in the future so hold your tongue.
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:20 pm

I remember watching a documentary about BA called "AIRLINE"
back in the late 80's and they were discussing the options for a 3rd
LHR runway way back then.

I may be dead before they ever any 3rd runway is ever built   
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:44 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 28):
I remember watching a documentary about BA called "AIRLINE"
back in the late 80's and they were discussing the options for a 3rd
LHR runway way back then.

Yes, I found them on you-tube a few years ago and binge-watched them.

I laughed when they were talking about a third runway.

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 28):
I may be dead before they ever any 3rd runway is ever built

I wonder if UK bookmakers are giving odds? 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:44 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 27):
The whole idea of forming IAG as the union of BA, IB and EI was to do just this kind of thing. Therefore IMHO he should just get on with it instead of making threats he knows will change nothing.

It's a statement of fact, sometimes necessary to make others understand what is at stake.

It may "change nothing" - but at the very least, it brings another, and not unimportant, view to the debate.

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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting Dubaiamman243 (Thread starter):
CEO of IAG has warned that he will grow BA out of Ireland or Spain if their is no final decision regarding the 3rd runway at LHR.

No he hasn't. The Telegraph headline is bogus and sensational journalism. And it's not even backed up by the content of the article. As Mariner says above, what he actually said was that IAG would look for growth elsewhere.
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 28):
I remember watching a documentary about BA called "AIRLINE"
back in the late 80's and they were discussing the options for a 3rd
LHR runway way back then.

Sadly, I expected a 3rd runway in 1992 at the worst!
  

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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:55 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 27):
Therefore IMHO he should just get on with it instead of making threats he knows will change nothing.

What is interesting is that I don't think he is threatening anything real here anyway. It sounds like he just wants to know what is happening. They need to make a decision and with that decision IAG can plan accordingly. It seems like in business there certainly is influence peddling but what is also important is having confidence in what structural items are going to be in place...certainty in which to base a decision and what IAG seems to be looking for is a direction, one way or the other, upon which they can make business decisions.

He seems more annoyed with the lack of a decision than the lack of a conclusion that he favors.

tortugamon
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:03 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 33):
What is interesting is that I don't think he is threatening anything real here anyway. It sounds like he just wants to know what is happening.

Huh? The article quotes him thusly:

Quote:
"If the Government continues to dither over a new runway, then I'll move my business elsewhere. We now have airlines in Dublin and Madrid, and can expand our business there, supporting the strengthening Irish and Spanish economies.

"This is not just fighting talk - we have the practical ability to expand elsewhere. This means Spain and Ireland will get the economic benefits and new jobs from our expansion plans, while the UK government twiddles its thumbs and watches as the world progresses around it."

So it's an actual threat to move business from the UK to DUB and/or MAD.
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:20 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 34):
Quote:
"If the Government continues to dither over a new runway, then I'll move my business elsewhere. We now have airlines in Dublin and Madrid, and can expand our business there, supporting the strengthening Irish and Spanish economies.

"This is not just fighting talk - we have the practical ability to expand elsewhere. This means Spain and Ireland will get the economic benefits and new jobs from our expansion plans, while the UK government twiddles its thumbs and watches as the world progresses around it."

So it's an actual threat to move business from the UK to DUB and/or MAD.

Actually Willie Walsh is not threatening to move any business from LHR/LGW.
He is threatening to concentrate IAG growth in MAD and DUB where the conditions are predictable and IAG can indulge in long term planning.
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tortugamon
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:23 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 34):
So it's an actual threat to move business from the UK to DUB and/or MAD.

Yeah I don't see it that way. When I read those words it sounds like he is choosing to invest/grow where there is certainty and availability rather than where there isn't. That is my point.

tortugamon
 
jacobin777
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:41 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 27):
Therefore IMHO he should just get on with it instead of making threats he knows will change nothing. If it's in IAG's best interest to invest elsewhere, get on with it and start reaping the benefits now! If it isn't, making idle threats only weakens IAG's leverage in the future so hold your tongue.

Maybe the politicians aren't "getting it" and more vocal people need to be heard. I understand what you are saying (to a certain point) but most here on this thread do not believe he is going to lift his entire system to MAD, etc.

In fact, from the article heading:

"....says the firm could focus on growing its business from Spain or Ireland rather than London"

Quoting kelvin933 (Reply 35):
Actually Willie Walsh is not threatening to move any business from LHR/LGW.
He is threatening to concentrate IAG growth in MAD and DUB where the conditions are predictable and IAG can indulge in long term planning.

  
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:11 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 28):

I remember watching a documentary about BA called "AIRLINE"
back in the late 80's and they were discussing the options for a 3rd
LHR runway way back then.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 32):
Sadly, I expected a 3rd runway in 1992 at the worst!

In the meantime China has built nearly 200 new airports.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
rdc1000
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:11 am

All slightly ironic given that British Airways recently withdrew support for a third runway at Heathrow on the basis that it was too expensive. I think most realised at that time that this was just them trying to force the hands of HAL to reduce the costs and keep charges under control.
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:00 pm

The reality of the situation is that I don't think either BA, IAG or Mr Walsh has ever truthfully been against a third runway at LHR, what they're against is BA paying the largest proportion of the cost of building the new runway through increase landing fee's then to not also receive the lions share of the newly created slots

As the current plan would effectively see BA paying roughly 50% of the cost but then not only not receiving approx 50% of new landing slots but I fact significantly less than this, and then as if to run salt into the wound this increased availability of slots will also increase competition and thus reduces ticket prices and overal profitability of BA operations
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:14 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 29):
I wonder if UK bookmakers are giving odds? 

If you fancied a dabble back in July:

Quote:
William Hill make Heathrow 1/3 to get a new runway before Gatwick – but William Hill customers have been backing Gatwick despite the report.
http://www.williamhillplc.com/media/...runway-hot-favourite-for-take-off/
But it looks like they're not taking bets at the moment  
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:09 pm

Quoting kelvin933 (Reply 35):
Actually Willie Walsh is not threatening to move any business from LHR/LGW.

He literally said "I'll move my business elsewhere". I find that hard to ignore, especially since moving business elsewhere is the most sensible thing to do under the circumstances. I find it hard to presume all that stuff he'd move is all new growth.

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 37):
Maybe the politicians aren't "getting it" and more vocal people need to be heard.

They haven't been getting it for decades now, it's not at all sensible to think his interviews in newspapers are going to change that one bit. From the politician's point of view there's very little upside in growing LHR and a lot of downside.

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 37):
I understand what you are saying (to a certain point) but most here on this thread do not believe he is going to lift his entire system to MAD, etc.

I never said he was going to lift his entire system to MAD, that's reduction to absurdity, and I hope the readership here is above reaching such hasty conclusions.

He's just saying he'll move things to where they make the most sense, which was the whole idea behind IAG = BA + IB + IE.

Some of those things lMHO are likely to be things that are now in the UK, but it doesn't mean he's going to close up shop in the UK, that would be absurd.

Quoting mwhcvt (Reply 40):
The reality of the situation is that I don't think either BA, IAG or Mr Walsh has ever truthfully been against a third runway at LHR, what they're against is BA paying the largest proportion of the cost of building the new runway through increase landing fee's then to not also receive the lions share of the newly created slots

Seems one could extrapolate Walsh's "politiicans twittling thumbs" into "politicians not doing exactly what I want them to do".

Quoting mwhcvt (Reply 40):
As the current plan would effectively see BA paying roughly 50% of the cost but then not only not receiving approx 50% of new landing slots but I fact significantly less than this, and then as if to run salt into the wound this increased availability of slots will also increase competition and thus reduces ticket prices and overal profitability of BA operations
BA has things pretty well sewn up at LHR. They've absorbed BD and have seen VS become a shell of itself and a vassal of DL. As you point out any additional capacity at LHR is not at all likely to be added in a way that benefits BA.

[Edited 2015-12-16 09:58:13]
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Beatyair
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:30 pm

Move what? There headquarter? They will not shutdown BA's HUBS and dominance from London, not a chance.
I with the would spot this bandage approach, and build a proper airport in the right place and correctly zone the property around it.
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42):
They haven't been getting it for decades now, it's not at all sensible to think his interviews in newspapers are going to change that one bit.

I doubt he thinks that.

But he's a player in this, and a not unimportant one, and some would say it is his fiduciary duty, as the senior corporate officer of a publicly held corporation, to give that opinion and an indication of potential future strategy.

I'm sure IAG shareholders don't share your reservations about him speaking out, and rather than being an "idle threat" I would say he's quite properly covering his butt.

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jacobin777
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:13 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42):
Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 37):
Maybe the politicians aren't "getting it" and more vocal people need to be heard.

They haven't been getting it for decades now, it's not at all sensible to think his interviews in newspapers are going to change that one bit. From the politician's point of view there's very little upside in growing LHR and a lot of downside.

However Walsh hasn't been around BA/IAG for decades. Not its his turn to speak up. His job is to speak up regardless of the situation.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42):
He's just saying he'll move things to where they make the most sense, which was the whole idea behind IAG = BA + IB + IE.

Some of those things lMHO are likely to be things that are now in the UK, but it doesn't mean he's going to close up shop in the UK, that would be absurd.

It seems we agree there.  
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:24 pm

This HAS to be one of the most empty threats one can make. BA's profits, mostly sourced out of LHR, isthe single pillar holding up the entire IAG.

"In other news, Alan Joyce also threatens to move hub to CBR due to unlimited growth potential"
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:10 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 46):
"In other news, Alan Joyce also threatens to move hub to CBR due to unlimited growth potential...

... unless of course the runway capacity of SYD is increased by ~50% free of charge to QF ...
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:23 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 8):
T5 couldn't handle tha added pax volume. Also A380s require more spacing out, etc.

The point would be to replace smaller aircraft with A380 and to use the slots more efficiently. The pax volume doesn't change depending on aircraft type (although pax actually seem to prefer A380 over other types, if there's a choice. And Heathrow is very well developed for A380 operations.

Either way, the whole 3rd runway at Heathrow thing is a complete disaster. Someone needs to make a decision and overrule the NIMBYs regardless of the consequences. I hope Mr. Walsh means business.
 
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RE: Willie W.warns: Make A Decision Or I'll Move BA

Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:47 pm

I flew BA this summer to LHR from ORD. First, I was surprised to see how much circling we did over greater London, before we got into the arrival pattern. You don't circle at busy U.S. airports like ORD, DFW, or ATL unless the weather is causing greater spacing of traffic or the wind has shifted, meaning the pattern has to be flipped.

Even when leaving for ORD, we had to sit at the gate about 10 minutes while waiting for BA ops to get us slotted for take-off.

Clearly, LHR needs another runway.

But, I discovered that the patterns do fly over areas that can certainly offer loud criticism. When the traffic flow is to the west, the arrival pattern goes over Kensington. That is a very wealthy area, presumably with a lot of residents who exert influence.

With a west pattern, departures go over Windsor, including Windsor Castle, where the Queen spends most weekends, when she is in London. At some point, she might tell Prime Minister David Cameron what she thinks of potentially more traffic over Windsor.

Presumably, BA can do with LHR what AA did with ORD. Because of the operations caps that the FAA imposed back in 2004 through 2008 (when the 3rd east-west runway opened), ORD became more of an O&D station, with connections focused on cities in the Upper Midwest. Most east-west traffic went through DFW.

I can cite a number of cities which, before 2003, had roughly equal numbers of flights to ORD and DFW. After 2003, DFW often had twice or even three times as many departures to a number of cities, when compared to ORD, including PHX, LAS, TPA, and MCO.

LHR could become more of an O&D station, while DUB becomes the transfer point for traffic from the Americas to Northern Europe and MAD becomes the transfer point for traffic from the Americas to Southern Europe.

So, when flying from ORD to CPH, you may change at DUB, rather than LHR, and a trip to ATH would mean changing at MAD. Make those changes to the route system, and that might mean that ORD-LHR, scheduled for 6 round-trips next summer on AA/BA could drop to 4, with an additional round-trip to DUB and an additional round-trip to MAD.

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