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WNCrew
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:26 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 49):
The only thing on that list that was even arguably at issue in this accident was the cabin attitude, and I'm not sure evacuating a plane on the side of a hill in the dark is wise.

I don't know all of the facts. I don't know that there was no sort of fumes in the cabin, I don't know that ceiling panels and/or over head bins hadn't opened or fallen, I don't know any of the conditions that were experienced therefor I am not going to speculate but it is not correct to state that they MUST get feedback from the flight-deck. It is ideal, but not always possible.

I doubt any crew member from inside that cabin knew they were on any type of hill. Being inside the cabin, in the dark is very disorienting. It's easy for you and I, form the outside, after the fact to make statements about what should or shouldn't have happened.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:34 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 50):
I don't know that there was no sort of fumes in the cabin, I don't know that ceiling panels and/or over head bins hadn't opened or fallen,

My understanding is that there were no fumes and the bins remained closed. Remember that this was a pretty low speed accident.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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B727skyguy
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:20 am

The FAA statement said, "Passengers left the aircraft via stairs and were bussed to the terminal." The pics clearly showed the slides deployed. That contradicts the FAA statement. Did they deplane the passengers with stairs and blow the slides just for fun?

If they did do an emergency evacuation, I'm surprised they used door 1R leading into the ravine instead of 1L which would have let people out on level land.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:50 pm

Quoting B727skyguy (Reply 52):
That contradicts the FAA statement. Did they deplane the passengers with stairs and blow the slides just for fun?

The FAA statement is wrong. Everyone left via slides AFAIK.

Quoting B727skyguy (Reply 52):
If they did do an emergency evacuation, I'm surprised they used door 1R leading into the ravine instead of 1L which would have let people out on level land.

I assume the 1L slide would ot have reached the ground.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
chimborazo
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:26 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 48):
For the record: FA's are trained to initiate an evacuation of the cabin on their own in several scenarios. I know NOTHING of this particular situation and I will not speculate on what did or did not happen and why it did or did not happen. Having said that: If FA's smell smoke, if the cabin attitude is highly irregular, if there's fuselage damage, if there's fire, if there's interior damage (dropped ceiling panels, overhead bins, bulkhead walls), if a passenger initiates an evac, and if there's no communication from the flight deck... then FA's can and should initiate an evacuation (taking into account all factors and conditions outside the aircraft). Also, if the aircraft is off the runway, at an odd attitude, the slides can be used as a means to deplane pax in a controlled manner since stairs wouldn't be useable. I don't know how this aircraft was evacuated, if it was URGENT, or non-emergent.

Excellent post. Generally on A-net the comments regarding an evacuation run along Two lines: when evacuating, you must not take bags etc because you're risking other folk's lives wasting time for your dirty shirts and underpants (I completely agree and these people should be prosecuted for breaking the law. Always travel with wallet, phone, passport on your person for t/o and landing and if you need to get out in a hurry you're not worrying about grabbing your bag). Then we have: you must not evacuate until the captain calls it. Why not? What if the flight crew are incapacitated? That appears not to have happened here but if they'd been unfortunate enough to hit something that incapacitated the crew, what then? I think it's great to have the policy you describe. If there has been a crash/ incident and the plane has stopped moving then get the heck out... IMO any runway excursion is a potential risk for fire so should always be treated as an emergency and therefore require immediate evacuation. It can always be argued after that a situation was totally benign but no one knows that at the time. If in doubt: out.
 
AngMoh
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:28 am

Quoting chimborazo (Reply 54):
Then we have: you must not evacuate until the captain calls it. Why not? What if the flight crew are incapacitated? That appears not to have happened here but if they'd been unfortunate enough to hit something that incapacitated the crew, what then? I think it's great to have the policy you describe. If there has been a crash/ incident and the plane has stopped moving then get the heck out... IMO any runway excursion is a potential risk for fire so should always be treated as an emergency and therefore require immediate evacuation. It can always be argued after that a situation was totally benign but no one knows that at the time. If in doubt: out.

A good example was TK1951: the cockpit crew died in the crash but most passengers survived. An evacuation was started before fire services arrived at the site of the accident. The report does not detail who/how it was initiated.

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/aeronauti...ed-resources/MIT16_63JF12_B737.pdf
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739/ER 742 743 744/M 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:27 pm

Quoting chimborazo (Reply 54):
Then we have: you must not evacuate until the captain calls it. Why not?

Certainly, I didn't say that. I did say that with the aircraft on the side of a hill and not burning, I'm not sure about that choice in this accident.

Quoting chimborazo (Reply 54):
IMO any runway excursion is a potential risk for fire so should always be treated as an emergency and therefore require immediate evacuation.

No runway excursion in this accident . . .
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
twinotter
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:13 am

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:53 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 56):
I did say that with the aircraft on the side of a hill and not burning, I'm not sure about that choice in this accident.

How the heck would the passengers know whether or not any part of the plane was burning or was about to?
 
mcdu
Posts: 1663
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:16 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 56):
No runway excursion in this accident . . .

Maybe they were going so fast they thought they were on a runway? I am sure the investigation will answer all of these questions.
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:22 pm

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 58):
Maybe they were going so fast they thought they were on a runway? I am sure the investigation will answer all of these questions.

On the surveillance video, it doesn't appear that they were taxiing all that quickly, but it's hard to tell.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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Boeing717200
Posts: 1926
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:12 pm

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 60):

Southwest better be careful:

If they have several 737 inserious incidents in a row the public may become wary
of the '37 or the news media may hound them for having so many "old" aircraft.


Live by 737 die by 737, that's what you get when you are single type user.
Fortunately for SW the 737 rudder deflection problem was solved.

Not sure if serious.   
240 years and the top two candidates are named Dumb and Dumber. Stay classy!
 
737tanker
Posts: 398
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:57 pm

Quoting twinotter (Reply 57):

That is why WN pilots are taught that during an abort or an emergency to immediately make a PA telling the F/A to remain seated, even if it is only to give us enough time to shut down the engines and lower the flaps. Then if the Captain decides that an evacuation is needed then another PA is made saying to evacuate and (if necessary) to which side. If no PA is made then the F/As have to make this decision and they don't always have all the information.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7859
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:16 pm

The aircraft has been moved off of the Southwest ramp and is now sitting on the south cargo ramp out of the public eye sealed up with the nose gear replaced.

[Edited 2015-12-24 08:19:34]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1757
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:25 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 56):
I did say that with the aircraft on the side of a hill and not burning, I'm not sure about that choice in this accident.

So... you wait until there is a fire before you take action. No.

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 62):

That is why WN pilots are taught that during an abort or an emergency to immediately make a PA telling the F/A to remain seated, even if it is only to give us enough time to shut down the engines and lower the flaps. Then if the Captain decides that an evacuation is needed then another PA is made saying to evacuate and (if necessary) to which side. If no PA is made then the F/As have to make this decision and they don't always have all the information.

  

or if a passenger initiates an evacuation via the owwe, then everyone evacuates.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:48 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 64):
So... you wait until there is a fire before you take action. No.

No, you wait for some objective sign of danger or a command from the flight deck (which I understand never came here). What sign of danger was present in this accident?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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GuitrThree
Posts: 1941
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:53 pm

Here she sits today.

Blue wrap doesn't usually spell out a good ending.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glen Novitsky

As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1757
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:32 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 64):
What sign of danger was present in this accident?

So you were there, tell us everything that went on and what was not present in the conditions within the cabin.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
Cubsrule
Topic Author
Posts: 14966
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:34 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 66):
So you were there, tell us everything that went on and what was not present in the conditions within the cabin.

I have friends who were. Their impression was that it was basically a non-event inside the cabin, and they were surprised by the evacuation command.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2774
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RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:38 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 65):
Here she sits today.

Blue wrap doesn't usually spell out a good ending.

I've never seen a plane wrapped up like that.

Make u wonder why BA didn't wrap their 77E in Vegas,

if for no other reason than to hide the livery   
 
Lexy
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:05 am

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:18 pm

I'm sure WN appreciates these pictures on here of it wrapped.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
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GuitrThree
Posts: 1941
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:54 pm

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:45 pm

Quoting Lexy (Reply 69):

I'm sure WN appreciates these pictures on here of it wrapped.

Well then next time they should tell their pilot not to drive it into a ditch.
As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
 
Okie
Posts: 4231
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:54 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 68):
I've never seen a plane wrapped up like that.

  

That would be a first for me as well.

Unfortunately the red MLG hub caps are a dead giveaway along with the satellite hump.

Okie
 
n471wn
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:12 pm

Are there no signs of repair? This was not a high damage incident and this is one of the newest 300's
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2094
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:41 pm

Quoting Okie (Reply 71):
satellite hump.

There is no satellite hump on the -300s.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 72):
Are there no signs of repair? This was not a high damage incident and this is one of the newest 300's

I'd imagine that after the investigation and after the insurance company does an evaluation, the fate of 649 will be decided..
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7859
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:04 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 70):

LoL... Yup... I noticed the storms we had last week blew the wrap off the belly.

Quoting Okie (Reply 71):

I thought the Canyon Blue wrap was a give away too.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 72):

I see it almost everyday... No action yet.

[Edited 2016-01-05 18:07:13]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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Spacepope
Posts: 5176
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:27 am

Quoting Okie (Reply 71):
That would be a first for me as well.

The 73G that WN biffed at LGA was transported up the Hudson in blue wrap.

The A320 that US biffed at PHL is currently wrapped like that awaiting its fate (though it doesn't look good)

It's becoming a new common livery on domestic narrowbody fleets. Spotters take note!
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Lexy
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:05 am

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:33 pm

Nm

Filler

Filler

Filler

[Edited 2016-01-06 08:49:43]
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: WN Runway Excursion At BNA

Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:57 am

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 58):
Maybe they were going so fast they thought they were on a runway? I am sure the investigation will answer all of these questions.

Amazing that statements like this continue to be made by a professional.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.

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