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Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:53 pm

http://news.delta.com/embraer-190s-more-boeing-737-900ers-coming-delta

Smaller order than originally planned, but "[t]he order announced today offered Delta more compelling economics over a previously cancelled order that also included Boeing-held E190s."
 
deltalaw
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:57 pm

Wasn't this order originally cancelled due to the pilot's not agreeing to terms on a new contract? Are we supposed to read something into the progress with the union by the announcement of this order?
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:59 pm

EIS in Early 2017 for the EMB-190s. This should come as no surprise to those who follow Delta. The E90s are a good deal since they can't easily get more 717s.

Glad they've dropped the order of 739s from 40 to 20. Progress!
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PIEAvantiP180
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:01 pm

Looks like they are purchasing additional aircraft without a new contract from the pilots. It was only a matter of time. The E190 stays the same at 20 orders but what was the original amount for 737-900ER? So much for hoping that UA might grab these E190 from Boeing and finally introduce a 100 seat aircraft in their fleet. Congrats to DL and Boeing. Does anyone know how many seats DL will outfit the Embraer's.
 
dbo861
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 3):
So much for hoping that UA might grab these E190 from Boeing and finally introduce a 100 seat aircraft in their fleet. Congrats to DL and Boeing. Does anyone know how many seats DL will outfit the Embraer's.

Does this make a C-Series that more more likely from United to fill their 100ish seat requirement?
 
UA444
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:06 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 4):

It certainly helps Bombadier now that they don't have to compete against Boeing selling used E190s.
 
YXXMIKE
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:08 pm

Those are the ex AC E190's?
I'm no Delta fanatic or expert so some fairly naive questions coming up....

E190's to replace 717's frame for frame or add to add capacity? 737-9ER to replace 757 frame for frame or a mixture of capacity increase and replacement of older frames?
 
BDL757
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:12 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 3):
what was the original amount for 737-900ER?

The original amount was 40.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:12 pm

Damn, I was really hoping to see the cseries with the widget
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:15 pm

I thought DL hated the 737 and the 900 in particular - or have I been reading too many A.net posts?
 
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:20 pm

Nah, DL management loves the 737-900. It's the employees and customers who dislike how it's configured.

I too wonder about the abrupt reinstatement of this without simultaneous news of progress on the union contract. Certainly isn't helping the cause for future negotiations... seems like a rare instance of DL blinking on this one.
 
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:20 pm

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 6):
E190's to replace 717's frame for frame or add to add capacity?

No, the last crew of the 737 will be flown out of the desert on a DC-9-95. No way does Delta start dumping 717's considering they are still taking delivery on them.

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catiii
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:21 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 4):

Does this make a C-Series that more more likely from United to fill their 100ish seat requirement?

UA has been looking at another existing E190 operator's airframes to perhaps take some off their hands. I'm sure you'll see something on that reported more widely in the press...
 
DeltaB717
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:23 pm

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 6):
E190's to replace 717's frame for frame or add to add capacity?

The 717s aren't going anywhere... the E190s will supplement the 717s in upgauging CR9 services; the freed-up CR9s will upgauge CR7 services; and the freed-up CR7s will upgauge CR2 services. Just gives them 111 frames to play with instead of 91.
 
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:23 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 9):
I thought DL hated the 737 and the 900 in particular - or have I been reading too many A.net posts?

no, anet hates DL's 737-900ERs because they are the most uncomfortable aircraft and couldn't possibly replace a 757.


DL loves them because they bought bought 100 originally and have now added another 20.
Boiler Up!
 
n515cr
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 9):
I thought DL hated the 737 and the 900 in particular - or have I been reading too many A.net posts?

Can't say speak DL itself, but quite a few DL fliers HATE the 739 for a myriad of reasons.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 6):
E190's to replace 717's frame for frame or add to add capacity? 737-9ER to replace 757 frame for frame or a mixture of capacity increase and replacement of older frames?

Certainly not a 717 replacement--adding capacity since they can't get more 717s. That would've been the preferred option.

739s to both replace the leaving 757s and add capacity.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 8):
Damn, I was really hoping to see the cseries with the widget

There's still a long way to go on that one. We may eventually see the C-Series at Delta. Time will tell.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 9):
I thought DL hated the 737 and the 900 in particular - or have I been reading too many A.net posts?

See below.

Quoting BCBHokie (Reply 10):
Nah, DL management loves the 737-900. It's the employees and customers who dislike how it's configured.

  

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 11):
No, the last crew of the 737 will be flown out of the desert on a DC-9-95. No way does Delta start dumping 717's considering they are still taking delivery on them.

  
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seabosdca
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 6):
737-9ER to replace 757 frame for frame

The original 737-900ER order didn't quite have enough capacity to replace all the older 757s and all the non-ETOPS domestic 767s. This about gets there, accounting for growth which is causing DL to keep a few more 757s than originally planned.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:44 pm

Interesting that DL isn't ordering more A321s instead and a separate E-190 order directly from Embraer.

I know that had DL's pilot contract passed, there were also plans to order additional E-190s directly from Embraer, as well as E-175s for DL Connection carriers. That probably won't happen now.
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flyby519
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:45 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 12):
UA has been looking at another existing E190 operator's airframes to perhaps take some off their hands. I'm sure you'll see something on that reported more widely in the press...

I'd love to hear more about this...! Any clues who the existing operator is?
 
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American 767
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:48 pm

Will these 20 737s be built and delivered as 737-932ERs? I believe that Boeing still uses the customer codes on current NG737 variants.
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dbo861
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:53 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 18):
I know that had DL's pilot contract passed, there were also plans to order additional E-190s directly from Embraer, as well as E-175s for DL Connection carriers. That probably won't happen now.

Never say never. There are very limited 717s available, so if they need more 100 seat growth, they could order additional E190s.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:55 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 18):
nteresting that DL isn't ordering more A321s

Maybe after they get their hands on a few
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:56 pm

Quoting n515cr (Reply 15):
Can't say speak DL itself, but quite a few DL fliers HATE the 739 for a myriad of reasons.

Since I fly them a lot, I will vouch for their crappyness. It's not really the plane, it's the way DL has configured them. About the only good thing is the overhead bins are roomy and the lighting is kewl. Otherwise, hate to fly them and avoid them when I can.
 
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:59 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 23):
About the only good thing is the overhead bins are roomy and the lighting is kewl. Otherwise, hate to fly them and avoid them when I can.

Fully agreed. My limited (so far) experience on them has been the same.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:03 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 18):
I know that had DL's pilot contract passed, there were also plans to order additional E-190s directly from Embraer, as well as E-175s for DL Connection carriers. That probably won't happen now.

Oh I still expect those things to happen. Just not yet. I suspect that Boeing was closing on selling those E190s and Delta couldn't wait any longer or they'd lose the deal.

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 22):

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 18):
nteresting that DL isn't ordering more A321s

Maybe after they get their hands on a few

    

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 21):
Never say never. There are very limited 717s available, so if they need more 100 seat growth, they could order additional E190s.

    
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HPAEAA
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:05 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 21):
Never say never. There are very limited 717s available, so if they need more 100 seat growth, they could order additional E190s.

I remember US tried selling their E190s a few years back, wonder if the new AA will try again to simplify the fleet.
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MIflyer12
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:07 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 18):
Interesting that DL isn't ordering more A321s instead and a separate E-190 order directly from Embraer.

DL brags about its capital spending discipline and the ongoing mix of old+new aircraft in the press release.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:31 pm

What makes a 739 less comfortable from a passenger perspective than any other 737 or 757?

Unless DL specifically restricts seat pitch on this model only, it's all 3x3 in coach with the same cabin width...
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fanoftristars
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 23):

Quoting n515cr (Reply 15):
Can't say speak DL itself, but quite a few DL fliers HATE the 739 for a myriad of reasons.

Since I fly them a lot, I will vouch for their crappyness. It's not really the plane, it's the way DL has configured them. About the only good thing is the overhead bins are roomy and the lighting is kewl. Otherwise, hate to fly them and avoid them when I can.

E
They aren't too bad up front. And their IFE is fantastic. One major thing that would improve them immensely is to move one of the three Lavs from the rear and install it between F and Y. And maybe cut a boarding door behind F.
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Polot
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 28):
What makes a 739 less comfortable from a passenger perspective than any other 737 or 757?

It has tight pitch (something it shares with the retrofitted A319/A320s and soon to be arriving A321s) and DL went the cheap route and put all Y lavs in the rear of the aircraft instead of having a mid cabin lav (something DL did rectify with the A321) which makes them difficult to get to during meal service.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:27 am

Quoting n515cr (Reply 15):
but quite a few DL fliers HATE the 739 for a myriad of reasons.

If this is the "myrian of [sic] reasons"...

Quoting Polot (Reply 31):
It has tight pitch (something it shares with the retrofitted A319/A320s and soon to be arriving A321s) and DL went the cheap route and put all Y lavs in the rear of the aircraft instead of having a mid cabin lav (something DL did rectify with the A321) which makes them difficult to get to during meal service.

... then that's pretty limp. Seriously, three lavs at the rear sounds great compared to a 738 with two lavs at the rear. The lavs/pax ratio is markedly improved, but still people moan.

I can understand the seat pitch issues but it sounds as though that's going fleetwide. So not really a 739 issue at all but a Delta management decision.
 
jb1087xna
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:38 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 32):
... then that's pretty limp. Seriously, three lavs at the rear sounds great compared to a 738 with two lavs at the rear. The lavs/pax ratio is markedly improved, but still people moan.

I can understand the seat pitch issues but it sounds as though that's going fleetwide. So not really a 739 issue at all but a Delta management decision.

I think the complaint on the lavs is their size and/or location in the cabin rather than the ratio. Since DL is getting them to replace the 757s versus the 738, the comparison of location is that the 739 has no lavs in the middle of the plane, whether directly behind F or 2/3 of the way through Y (like DL's 753 or AA's 321 have).
It's not a 739 issue. It's how DL has requested they be configured.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:42 am

I actually wonder if there is a clause in this order that Boeing agrees not to sue DL over the Airbus orders or the Ex-Im Bank dispute.   
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KELPkid
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:47 am

Will the E-190 be flying mainline for DL, or will they somehow figure out a way to sluff it off to regionals (where there are already a boatload of E-175's with the same type rating)?  
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INFINITI329
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:54 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 35):
Will the E-190 be flying mainline for DL, or will they somehow figure out a way to sluff it off to regionals (where there are already a boatload of E-175's with the same type rating)?

It has to be mainline
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:55 am

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 36):
It has to be mainline

Yeah, no chance any mainline pilot group is gonna allow 100 seaters to go to regionals in the foreseeable future.

The regionals are in enough trouble trying to staff the planes they have now, anyway.

[Edited 2015-12-16 16:57:00]
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TW870
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:56 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 32):
Seriously, three lavs at the rear sounds great compared to a 738 with two lavs at the rear. The lavs/pax ratio is markedly improved, but still people moan.

There is no other narrow body configuration that I can think of that has 3 lavs clustered aft like on the DL 739s. This is particularly two bad for two reasons. First, you get one long line for the lavs, which is particularly hard on passengers with aisle seats in the rear of the cabin. The long line makes the whole aft cabin feel cramped. Second, the crowd of lined up passengers negatively impacts everyone, because it is more difficult for flight attendants to get from the galley to the cabin, particularly if they are carrying things like beverages. As a former flight attendant, one thing that I think makes a cabin work or not work is how quickly I could answer a quick request - like for a pillow or a cup of coffee or a cocktail in between services. Just trying to mash through the crowd of people to get to the passenger and then fulfill the request is much more difficult. Plus, it is more difficult to do run-throughs with coffees or waters - especially at the back of the cabin.

They're taking out 3 seats on the -900ER, though, right? I wonder how the additional cart/storage space is going to play with the 3 lavs.
 
Prost
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:01 am

DL has one of eir 757 configurations with three lavs in the back. It's on overhead monitor configuration with the small galley at the door 2 left boarding door.
 
aa777lvr
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:04 am

Let's not forget performance. From an operational perspective, rarely a weight restriction or a driftdown issue on the 757. (or a tail tip issue).
 
B757Forever
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:09 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 39):

DL has one of eir 757 configurations with three lavs in the back. It's on overhead monitor configuration with the small galley at the door 2 left boarding door.

That was on ships 6901-6904. They are 757-212s. Soon to all be retired!
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Wingtips56
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:13 am

Do any carriers have mid-cabin lavs on a 737? Wouldn't plumbing and a biffy tank cut into pit space?
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dbo861
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:19 am

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 26):
I remember US tried selling their E190s a few years back, wonder if the new AA will try again to simplify the fleet.

When US sold off some of their E190s to F9, they were trying to raise cash because they were on the verge of bankruptcy. And these frames eventually ended up back with US. I don't think it was because US wanted to get rid of the aircraft, but these were the easiest to offload in their fleet when they needed quick cash.

Honestly, I think AA will jump in the 100 seat bandwagon now that DL has the 717s and soon E190s and UA is looking at 100 seat aircraft. AA could easily order additional E190s.
 
neutronstar73
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:27 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 2):
Glad they've dropped the order of 739s from 40 to 20. Progress!

I don't know where this hate for DL's 739 product. I flew it twice and it was supremely comfortable and very nice inside. I'm disappointed they dropped the order o 20; they should buy more of them, not less, if the product remains the same.
 
flyinggoat
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:30 am

Congrats to DL! I was hoping to see an eventual C-Series from them, but the E-190 is a great ride and will look good in DL's colors.

Regarding the 737s, I must be in the minority here, and I think they are a fantastic ride! I fly on them pretty frequently between SEA and.ATL, and honestly, they are some of the nicest single isle planes I've been on in a long time. I'm not a fan of the lav sizes or configuration, but otherwise, the sky interior and IFE are pretty nice. They don't have the nostalgia of the 757, but DL's 737-900s are a lot nicer.
 
questions
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:52 am

What is the Y seat pitch on DL's 739?
 
Prost
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:53 am

7.39" of knee room.

I think.
 
EMB170
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:54 am

[quote=Wingtips56,reply=41]
Do any carriers have mid-cabin lavs on a 737? Wouldn't plumbing and a biffy tank cut into pit space?

Yes. UA 738s have a mid cabin lavatory if I remem correctly.

Isn't the scuttlebutt that DL intends to use the EMB 190s out of SEA, SLC, and LAX, mainly, thus freeing more 717 aircraft to work in the Midwest and east?
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United1
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:57 am

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 47):
Yes. UA 738s have a mid cabin lavatory if I remem correctly.

UAs 739/739ERs have mid cabin lavs but they reconfigured the 20 or so mid cabin lav 738s to the standard configuration.
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catiii
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:58 am

Any speculation on where DL will crew base the 190s initially? Seems like NYC makes sense where you can plug them into BOS to redeploy the 717s and have a common cabin product with the Shuttle America 175s. Also allows you to up gauge on DCA as needed, as well as other cities that the 175s serve from NYC.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 19):

It's an operator in the Americas that's has a substantial fleet and they've been on the property taking a look, and I'll leave it at that.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 41):

Do any carriers have mid-cabin lavs on a 737? Wouldn't plumbing and a biffy tank cut into pit space?


UA used to have a really narrow lav on either the 738 or 739 aft of F. It was a tight fit though. Not sure if they still do.

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