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RyanairGuru
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 41):
Do any carriers have mid-cabin lavs on a 737? Wouldn't plumbing and a biffy tank cut into pit space?

United do. The mid-cabin lavs coupled with better seat pitch is why you read a lot less moaning about United's 737-900s than Delta's, even though they are the exact same aircraft.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 42):
I don't think it was because US wanted to get rid of the aircraft, but these were the easiest to offload in their fleet when they needed quick cash.

It actually goes deeper than that. The A320 family would have been easier to sell and would have raised more money, but US Airways had a clause with their pilots stipulating the minimum number of airplanes that could be flown by mainline crews. For some reason the E190s were not included in this figure, so when US wanted to shrink the first things to go were the E190s as that allowed them to stay above the minimum fleet size.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 42):
I think AA will jump in the 100 seat bandwagon now that DL has the 717s and soon E190s and UA is looking at 100 seat aircraft

  

Quoting catiii (Reply 49):
It's an operator in the Americas

"In the Americas" is intriguing wording, I think that you would have been more specific if it was US/AA or B6. I am inclined to think maybe Copa. After all, United has already been taking some of their 73Gs.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Viscount724
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:16 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 49):
Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 41):

Do any carriers have mid-cabin lavs on a 737? Wouldn't plumbing and a biffy tank cut into pit space?


UA used to have a really narrow lav on either the 738 or 739 aft of F. It was a tight fit though. Not sure if they still do.

Seatguru shows that lavatory on UA 739s, also on one version of the 738 (they show several UA 738 configurations and the others don't have that lav).

El Al also has that lavatory on their 739s.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:22 am

Quoting TW870 (Reply 37):
There is no other narrow body configuration that I can think of that has 3 lavs clustered aft like on the DL 739s.

Hang on - how is this so different to a 738 or 320 with two rear lavs?

From what I can gather the Delta 738 has 144 Y seats, the 739 has 160. So at most you have, what, one, maybe two extra passenger lining up? But you don't because there's more lav per pax so that line should be no worse than the 738 or A320 and you don't hear people moaning about that.

Sounds like an excuse to whinge, frankly. Try being on a more tightly configured 739 like Lion where they either have two lavs at the rear for 196 Y pax or three lavs all up for 214 pax. Fun. Or Alaska with the same setup but 165 Y pax.
 
klkla
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:57 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 52):
Hang on - how is this so different to a 738 or 320 with two rear lavs?

From what I can gather the Delta 738 has 144 Y seats, the 739 has 160. So at most you have, what, one, maybe two extra passenger lining up? But you don't because there's more lav per pax so that line should be no worse than the 738 or A320 and you don't hear people moaning about that.

Sounds like an excuse to whinge, frankly. Try being on a more tightly configured 739 like Lion where they either have two lavs at the rear for 196 Y pax or three lavs all up for 214 pax. Fun. Or Alaska with the same setup but 165 Y pax.

Don't bring logic into any discussion about DL 737-900's. It's not allowed.

I've flown them a few times in the last year. They are fine in first class and the same as all other Delta aircraft with the new seats in coach. The only noticeable bad thing I noticed was the size of the lavatories in coach. Luckily I have only flown that aircraft once in coach and was lucky enough to get an emergency exit seat. I'm 5'11" and 150 lbs., so pretty average size and I could barely turn around inside the bathroom.
 
flyby519
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:01 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 50):
In the Americas" is intriguing wording, I think that you would have been more specific if it was US/AA or B6. I am incl

Maybe the remaining AC E190s?
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:09 am

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 47):
Isn't the scuttlebutt that DL intends to use the EMB 190s out of SEA, SLC, and LAX, mainly, thus freeing more 717 aircraft to work in the Midwest and east?
Quoting catiii (Reply 49):
Any speculation on where DL will crew base the 190s initially? Seems like NYC makes sense where you can plug them into BOS to redeploy the 717s and have a common cabin product with the Shuttle America 175s. Also allows you to up gauge on DCA as needed, as well as other cities that the 175s serve from NYC.

They haven't said what bases will see the E90s at first. I would expect West Coast over East. Easier to move the 717s back to ATL/DTW/NYC and run the E90s on the West side.

Here's a summary of the 900ER that's been posted before.

Quote:
Here's what I hear from pilots and dispatch/flight ops:

-It's a DOG. Just an abysmal performer in every aspect.
-Takeoff and Climb performance are horrific
-Pilots have said it lands fast and is difficult to slow down
-737 cockpit size and layout has always been an issue but pushing these out to 8 hour legs pisses people off
-No where to put crew luggage (DL's fault for cabin layout)
-Limited crosswind capability-apparently worse with the Scimitars because of the reach downwards towards the ground from the wing
-Tail Strike and rotation issues are a PITA
-Constant W/B problems owing to it's extremely long fuselage and relatively small wing--balance becomes critical
-It's a nightmare on the ramp with Bins 2 and 3 being endless--they call it the bowling alley
-Loading problems require it to be loaded opposite the other aircraft, load the front first, then the back or risk a tail tip. They happen and that's really annoying.

-It's taking away 757s which both pilots and dispatchers LOVE

Boeing needed to stop the 737 line after the -800. The 900 is pushing the limit of what's sane and the MAX... oh jesus. I know we're all praying DL goes Airbus instead of MAX. (Or even better, keeps the 88s/90s!)
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
catiii
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:29 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 50):

"In the Americas" is intriguing wording, I think that you would have been more specific if it was US/AA or B6. I am inclined to think maybe Copa. After all, United has already been taking some of their 73Gs.

The Americas means either North or South America. Time will tell.
 
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msp747
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:29 am

I do think it's funny all of the hate aimed at the 739, when it should be aimed at DL. A.Net folks seem excited about the 321's joining the fleet, but do you really think those will be configured much differently? I'm sure DL management will find a way to shove as many seats in those as possible too. I'd bet it won't be too long before the entire DL fleet feels like their 739's
 
catiii
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:33 am

Quoting msp747 (Reply 57):

I do think it's funny all of the hate aimed at the 739, when it should be aimed at DL. A.Net folks seem excited about the 321's joining the fleet, but do you really think those will be configured much differently? I'm sure DL management will find a way to shove as many seats in those as possible too. I'd bet it won't be too long before the entire DL fleet feels like their 739's


Bingo, especially with Airbus' plan to eliminate the 2L/2R doors. And the 321 equally flies like a dog...
 
SPREE34
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:33 am

Quoting deltalaw (Reply 1):
Are we supposed to read something into the progress with the union by the announcement of this order?

No. I said it before. If Delta needs the lift to make money, they will buy it. They will buy it regardless of pilot contract negotiations.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
Okcflyer
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:41 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 56):

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 50):

"In the Americas" is intriguing wording, I think that you would have been more specific if it was US/AA or B6. I am inclined to think maybe Copa. After all, United has already been taking some of their 73Gs.

The Americas means either North or South America. Time will tell.

Are any of the Brazialian carriers looking to capacity dump and raise cash? With currency exchange rate what it is now, they would be cheap for USD buyers.

Congrats to Delta and Boeing on landing another deal. The 739 is a good size for American carriers, about 12-18 seats smaller than A321 and excellent economics even when performing for shorter jumps from hubs. A sure-bet money printer in these times!
 
avi8
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:43 am

If the 737-900ER is such a crappy airplane? Why did UA and DL order hundreds of them? I fail to see the ofic behind the hating versus the relative success the airplane has had.
avi8

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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:47 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 28):
What makes a 739 less comfortable from a passenger perspective than any other 737 or 757?

They are not the most uncomfortable plane in the sky. If they had a mid-cabin door and a mid-cabin lav, they would be perfectly fine. Of course, that means taking away seats.   

DL is doing a great job diversifying their fleet to better optimize the right a/c for each route.
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diverted
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:55 am

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 54):
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 50):
In the Americas" is intriguing wording, I think that you would have been more specific if it was US/AA or B6. I am incl

Maybe the remaining AC E190s?

I'm assuming the 20 DL birds are ex AC? I see some have already left the fleet and have transferred ownership to BCC. That leaves ~25 frames. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see UA pick them up. They're all relatively new (2004+) and AC was one of the few airlines actually utilizing the range of the aircraft,(IE, YYZ-SEA, blocked at 5:28) so they haven't been abused flying mainly YOW-YYZ Rapidairs the last 10 years.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:10 am

Quoting avi8 (Reply 61):
If the 737-900ER is such a crappy airplane? Why did UA and DL order hundreds of them? I fail to see the ofic behind the hating versus the relative success the airplane has had.

Because they're financially attractive and ultimately the accountants make the big decisions.
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:02 am

So just to recap, DL will operate the following A/C:

717
737-700/800/900
747-400
757-200/300
767-300/400
777
A319
A320
A321
A332
A333
E190

Did I miss any? Are 787's coming at some point? A350's?

At what point does it become cost inefficient to operate so many different types of A/C? On one hand, you can certainly manipulate the aircraft to the ups and downs of any market very easily with so many to choose from. You can go from a smaller mainline aircraft to a larger one fairly easily as the market dictates. On the other hand, the training and maintenance costs to operate 16 (possibly 18) different A/C types must be extremely high. Crew utilization must be somewhat inefficient and scheduling very difficult. Just curious what others thoughts on this are?
 
bpat777
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:04 am

I look forward to all my DL 739ER flights in Y. I don't understand the complaints about small lavs on planes because I try not to use them (I love the window seat). If I do use it, I'm in and out as fast as I can. I don't linger in there. I never noticed if there are baby changing tables in lavs these days I can see that being an issue with a small lav. I guess I'm one of the passengers DL likes because the BSI and IFE won me over.

[Edited 2015-12-16 21:10:30]
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:15 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 65):
Did I miss any? Are 787's coming at some point? A350's?

A359 deliveries begin 2017
A339 deliveries begin 2019
787......Eventually?
Now you're flying smart
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:20 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 13):
he freed-up CR7s will upgauge CR2 services.

I can't stand either of those aircraft. Upgauging the CR2 to a CR7 does nothing but shift the pain to a longer tube. They're old-looking, smelly, cramped and uncomfortable. Many of them have worn-out seats with tons of scuff markets. When will they dump the CR7 completely and opt for E170s? What will happen to all those little markets that only use the CR2 and end up with crappy load factors once the CR7s are introduced (FSM, CSG for example)? Yes, I hate the CR2s, but they bring service to thousands who wouldn't get it otherwise.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:22 am

In the end, the pilots won this one. No need to take the rotten carrot. The company will buy planes they need no matter what the deal is.

Not sure why a U.S. airline would want E190s though, especially a small fleet. We've seen the operating statistics, and they aren't pretty. I guess they're DL's problem now.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 52):
Hang on - how is this so different to a 738 or 320 with two rear lavs?

Two things. First, no one is saying the A320/738 is a great configuration. It isn't. And second, a couple extra rows makes a difference.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:26 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 18):

The plan is 50 E90(maybe E90/E95 mix) at least possibly up to 100.

And I'll bet the domestic scope in the next TA is a copy and pasta from the last TA (50 E90/E95 for 25 76 seaters and 100 50 seaters vs 125 currently)

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 33):

Well considering Beoing can't sue Delta for either
No.

You really need to get over it. 787s are going to happen too more than likely, however I see no chance of GE being the engine. (TechOps is already going to be a MRO for Trent 1000s)
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:40 am

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 70):
You really need to get over it. 787s are going to happen too more than likely, however I see no chance of GE being the engine. (TechOps is already going to be a MRO for Trent 1000s)

LOL. GE get the 787 contract. Not with TechOps in bed with RR.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 65):
So just to recap, DL will operate the following A/C:

Heh, it's worse than that too. Once you get into engines and configs, the number of fleet types at Delta is pretty shocking.

Mainline:
717
737-700/800/900ER
747-400
757-200/300
767-300 (GE, PW), 767-300ER (GE, PW), 767-400ER (GE)
777-200ER (RR) and -200LR (GE)
787-8 (2020)
A319
A320
A321
A330-200 (PW)
A330-300 (PW)
A330-300 (242t GE)
A330-900neo (2019)
A350-900 (2017)
E190
MD-88
MD-90

Regional:
CRJ-200/700/900
EMB-170/175
ERJ-145
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:00 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 71):

That is a big part of it but AA showed us that it doesn't matter (just as in bed with RR not to long ago as Delta is) as much as we think.
Having said that DL still has an order in for 18 airplanes worth of engines with RR. If they were going to change they would have done it.
Also because of the lack of Trent 1000s in the NA market I simply don't see GE being able to offer deal better than what Rollers will want to offer.
And because the Trent 7000 is just a Trent 1000 and Trent XWB mix it would be much more simple to just go Trent on the 787.

Lots of reason why they will likely stay with Rolls on the 787.


But I wouldn't be against a spilt and TechOps offer both engine to other airlines. More chances for revenue.
(Also hope delta goes LEAP-X and GTF when the time comes, imo that is more likely than a GEnx or GE9X order at this point, )
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:42 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 65):
So just to recap, DL will operate the following A/C:

717
737-700/800/900
747-400
757-200/300
767-300/400
777
A319
A320
A321
A332
A333
E190

Did I miss any? Are 787's coming at some point? A350's?

At what point does it become cost inefficient to operate so many different types of A/C?

You're ignoring adequate economies of scale within a type. Ten 717s could never be efficient but 91 will be just fine. DL was and is the biggest operator of both 757s and 767s. It will have nearly ~170 A319/320/321 when 321 deliveries are complete. The 747s are on their way out. One can force the type count & manning complexity slider hard in the other direction and wind up like Southwest: serving less than 1/3 of Delta's (and AA's, and UA's) destinations because it lacks types small enough and big/long range enough.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:58 am

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 73):

And as I have posted before Delta has posted (at least internally) the numbers and they make more than enough by having the right airplane for the right route than if they had a simple fleet of say 717/737/757/767/777
 
rta
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:24 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 65):
At what point does it become cost inefficient to operate so many different types of A/C? On one hand, you can certainly manipulate the aircraft to the ups and downs of any market very easily with so many to choose from. You can go from a smaller mainline aircraft to a larger one fairly easily as the market dictates. On the other hand, the training and maintenance costs to operate 16 (possibly 18) different A/C types must be extremely high. Crew utilization must be somewhat inefficient and scheduling very difficult. Just curious what others thoughts on this are?

I think they've got enough of each type (the ones that are staying, anyway) where the variety is not a problem. And as mentioned, especially with that many planes, they feel that its better to have the right plane for the mission. After all, each plane is optimized for different things.
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:26 am

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 74):
And as I have posted before Delta has posted (at least internally) the numbers and they make more than enough by having the right airplane for the right route than if they had a simple fleet of say 717/737/757/767/777

It's clear that DL is making plenty of money but I'm just curious, do you think there's more money to be had by reducing the types of airplanes they operate? I imagine the shareholders are happy with the big profits but if there are more to be had could the BOD push the company to streamline the fleet somewhat?
 
UA444
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:01 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 65):

You missed the entire MD-80s and MD-90s.

And simple fleet doesn't help operationally if you have such a large operation. One (or two or three) sizes doesn't fit all.
 
chrisair
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:27 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 17):
The original 737-900ER order didn't quite have enough capacity to replace all the older 757s and all the non-ETOPS domestic 767s

It's always been a bit perplexing how DL can replace a ~260 seat airplane with a ~180 seat airplane. The frequencies (at least here in PHX) remain roughly the same as when the 767s were routinely showing up.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:16 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 76):

No that's what I am saying. They would stand to lose money if they went to a more simple fleet. They have made that very clear to the employees. Also all the fleets are large enough that they really have the economies of scale that they aren't that hard on the bottom line. (And it helps that TechOps does so much work for other airlines that lowers costs even more. That is why they are really expanding the Airbus capabilities)

And one other thing to remember Delta likes the best deal they can get. As much as people think Anderson loves Airbus or Boeing, it's really that he loves the best deal. I can safely say he isn't the biggest 777 fan for Delta, but he is kicking the tires on used 777s because it might be the best deal to allow for a little more than originally when they wanted to park the 747 fleet. If not he will have to buy extra A350/787 aircraft (note also looking at 332s)
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:21 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 2):
Glad they've dropped the order of 739s from 40 to 20. Progress!

Please explain?
 
Andy33
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:25 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 78):
It's always been a bit perplexing how DL can replace a ~260 seat airplane with a ~180 seat airplane.

Delta, like many other legacy airlines worldwide, believe that 180 seats worth of revenue passengers is worth more to them than 260 seats worth of mixed revenue/mileage award/nonrev passengers and empty seats. Will there be days in the year when they could have got 260 revenue passengers? Sure, but they obviously don't think there are enough days like that to outweigh the advantages for the rest of the year. And of course if you create a shortage of seats, you can force the prices up.
This philosophy works fine until some competing carrier comes along and removes a proportion of the paying passengers. With every airline merger in the USA the risk gets less.
 
UA444
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:27 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 80):


Please explain?


DL was originally going to order 40 739s along with the E90s but now it's only 20.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:35 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 82):
DL was originally going to order 40 739s along with the E90s but now it's only 20.

And that's a GOOD thing?
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:22 am

Quoting klkla (Reply 53):
Don't bring logic into any discussion about DL 737-900's. It's not allowed.

I've flown them a few times in the last year. They are fine in first class and the same as all other Delta aircraft with the new seats in coach.

Agreed. Even though I'm 6'3", I haven't felt uncomfortable on any of my -900 flights. I like the PTVs, and the longer fuselage means I can get a window seat far enough behind the wings that I can have a good view, and still be far enough ahead of the rear bulkhead that the lavatory lines don't extend to my row.

My only bad flight on a -900 was when the passenger in the middle seat was very obese, and he felt like he was entitled to occupy 1/3 of my seat and legroom without paying for it - and this would have resulted in a miserable flight no matter what type of airplane I was on.

Even though I normally prefer AA to DL, if I have a choice between an AA A319 with an IFE box that occupies much of my legroom, or a DL -900 with lavatories at the back of the airplane, I'll choose a DL -900 in a heartbeat.
 
micstatic
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:35 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 33):

I actually wonder if there is a clause in this order that Boeing agrees not to sue DL over the Airbus orders or the Ex-Im Bank dispute

That would be like Burger King suing me for deciding to get a Big Mac.
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:00 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 9):
I thought DL hated the 737 and the 900 in particular - or have I been reading too many A.net posts?

As has been stated, the -932ER is disliked by many pax and crew.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 31):
I can understand the seat pitch issues but it sounds as though that's going fleetwide. So not really a 739 issue at all but a Delta management decision.

Could it be that now that DL is offering the Priority+ coach seating this will act as an encouragement for people to upsell to the more comfortable seat. Watch for DL to continually enhance that new coach product.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
SkyTeamTriStar
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:14 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 3):
Does anyone know how many seats DL will outfit the Embraer's.

98 seats, I believe....

[Edited 2015-12-17 05:35:01]
 
DTWPurserBoy
Posts: 2374
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:16 pm

Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 87):
Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 3):Does anyone know how many seats DL will outfit the Embraer's

98 makes sense. If they went to 101 seats it would require a third flight attendant.
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micstatic
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:01 pm

I wonder if this will ultimately lead to an E-195 in Delta's future?
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
burnsie28
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 45):
What is the Y seat pitch on DL's 739?

30-31" in Y

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 68):

I can't stand either of those aircraft. Upgauging the CR2 to a CR7 does nothing but shift the pain to a longer tube. They're old-looking, smelly, cramped and uncomfortable. Many of them have worn-out seats with tons of scuff markets. When will they dump the CR7 completely and opt for E170s?

As mentioned in other threads, the CRJ-700's are getting an entire cabin refresh.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:53 pm

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 90):
30-31" in Y

And that's considered "European standard."
 
caljn
Posts: 256
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:56 pm

Would someone please explain the hate for the 739? As a passenger in E+ on UA, they are perfectly fine.
 
micstatic
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:09 pm

Quoting caljn (Reply 92):
Would someone please explain the hate for the 739? As a passenger in E+ on UA, they are perfectly fine.

All you have to do is read. You don't even have to go far. Just scroll up
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
FSDan
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 47):
Isn't the scuttlebutt that DL intends to use the EMB 190s out of SEA, SLC, and LAX, mainly, thus freeing more 717 aircraft to work in the Midwest and east?

Someone in another thread did mention those hubs, as well as MSP. However, with just 20 I would imagine that there will only be one or two bases that they initially fly out of. I would personally like to see the E90s take over the 717 flying from SEA and LAX while those 717s are moved to MSP. There are already lots of E75s at both SEA and LAX that would have commonality with the E90. I'm not sure if there is much commonality between the 717 and the M90, but if there is then that could be a good reason to send more 717s to MSP rather than having them out West.
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RIX
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RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:38 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 68):

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 13):
he freed-up CR7s will upgauge CR2 services.

I can't stand either of those aircraft. Upgauging the CR2 to a CR7 does nothing but shift the pain to a longer tube. They're old-looking, smelly, cramped and uncomfortable.


I understand, it's about DL birds specifically, yet, still - aren't 100/200 and 700/900 really not the same? I've flown only once on each 100, 700, and 900, none with DL, and got an impression that 700/900 are in different league compared to100. If it's not the case with DL, then their "longer tubes" must be in quite a bad shape.

(Probably they are indeed - just saw a "700 cabin rferesh" comment).

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 86):

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 9):
I thought DL hated the 737 and the 900 in particular - or have I been reading too many A.net posts?

As has been stated, the -932ER is disliked by many pax and crew.

And, as has been stated, it's not any sort of a big deal whatsoever.

Similarly:

Quoting micstatic (Reply 93):

Quoting caljn (Reply 92):
Would someone please explain the hate for the 739? As a passenger in E+ on UA, they are perfectly fine.

All you have to do is read. You don't even have to go far. Just scroll up

... And see that the comments go both ways. As they would for any other airplane/configuration.
 
diverted
Posts: 1242
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 3:17 pm

RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:58 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 68):
I can't stand either of those aircraft. Upgauging the CR2 to a CR7 does nothing but shift the pain to a longer tube. They're old-looking, smelly, cramped and uncomfortable. Many of them have worn-out seats with tons of scuff markets. When will they dump the CR7 completely and opt for E170s? What will happen to all those little markets that only use the CR2 and end up with crappy load factors once the CR7s are introduced (FSM, CSG for example)? Yes, I hate the CR2s, but they bring service to thousands who wouldn't get it otherwise.

I'll take a CRJ over a Brasilia any day. Keep in mind the alternatives. Yes, the CRJ isn't an A380, but it was a whole lot better than a lot of the prop alternatives at the time.

If said market has crappy LF's after upgauging from a CR2 to a CR7 you'll probably see frequencies being cut. If it's a station with once or twice a day CR2 service that can't support a CR7, it'll probably stay CR2. They're not all disappearing.

The CR7 being smelly and uncomfortable has more to do with the airline operating it than the airplane. I've flown on some pretty nasty Ejets as well. Can't blame the frame for the way the airline upkeeps its cabins.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3166
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 68):
I can't stand either of those aircraft. Upgauging the CR2 to a CR7 does nothing but shift the pain to a longer tube. They're old-looking, smelly, cramped and uncomfortable. Many of them have worn-out seats with tons of scuff markets. When will they dump the CR7 completely and opt for E170s? What will happen to all those little markets that only use the CR2 and end up with crappy load factors once the CR7s are introduced (FSM, CSG for example)? Yes, I hate the CR2s, but they bring service to thousands who wouldn't get it otherwise.

They won't be dumping the CRJ2 anytime soon, in fact one of their regional carriers is bringing CRJ200's out of the desert

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
jbs2886
Topic Author
Posts: 2182
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 97):
They won't be dumping the CRJ2 anytime soon, in fact one of their regional carriers is bringing CRJ200's out of the desert

Endeavor Air announced yesterday with the pilot agreement to add CRJ2. Increase fleet from 81 CRJ9 to "at least" 134 CRJs with the increase being CRJ2. Are these from the desert, or another carrier?

https://twitter.com/EndeavorAir/status/677246694598287360
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2479
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

RE: Delta Purchases 20 E-190s And 20 737-900ERs

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:46 pm

Source of these E190s?

Quoting jbs2886 (Reply 98):
Endeavor Air announced yesterday with the pilot agreement to add CRJ2. Increase fleet from 81 CRJ9 to "at least" 134 CRJs with the increase being CRJ2. Are these from the desert, or another carrier?

Makes sense. Probably didn't cost anything to add them to the fleet. Separate pay scale for the CRJ2?

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