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KarelXWB
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DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:09 pm

Delta Airlines clinched a sweat deal:

Quote:
Delta's Anderson: I was wrong about US$10m for a used 777-200. I signed a LoI for a used 777-200 for US$7.7m yesterday.

Via http://twitter.com/winglets747/status/677505196495278081 and http://twitter.com/e_russell/status/677505039968149505

[Edited 2015-12-17 07:35:59]
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ndhair37
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 77E For $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:12 pm

Good news. Here's hoping they can upscale a Pacific route and perhaps roll an A332 down to cover off one 763 to in turn roll that down to Domestic.
 
deltalaw
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 77E For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:12 pm

Wow. A little vindication for RA. Interesting to buy just one at a time.
 
Sooner787
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 77E For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:14 pm

As the Leeham newsletter stated day or 2 back, if DL bought a 77E for $7mill,

That bird will most likely need a Heavy D check plus cabin refurbishing before it

enter service, plus the cost od a new DL paint job. So final tab may end up closer to

$40 mill or so
 
jfk777
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 77E For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:14 pm

Is it an old Singapore Airlines 777 or do we know where its coming from ? Who took it new from Boeing.
 
neutronstar73
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 77E For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:18 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 3):
That bird will most likely need a Heavy D check plus cabin refurbishing before it

enter service, plus the cost od a new DL paint job. So final tab may end up closer to

$40 mill or so

Yeah I think the 40 million is close to what this bird ACTUALLY cost Mr. Anderson's Delta. Let's see him tweet another flippant remark about how much it cost to refurbish the airplane. I bet it will cost well north of the $7 million he's squawking about today.
 
skipness1E
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 77E For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:22 pm

Are we absolutely sure they're not parting it out?
 
FSDan
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 77E For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:23 pm

Just one? That's a bit odd... Maybe DL will acquire used 77Es the way that AA ordered 77Ws - a few at a time.
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jetblue1965
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 77E For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:23 pm

Another thing to know how many cycles this bird has already. Maybe the 2nd-hand price is so low is because it's been abused on hourly SIN-KUL type of flights.
 
G500
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 77E For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:23 pm

I forgot which airline that was but 3 years ago they were trying to sell used CRJs and nobody wanted them at any price. They couldn't even give them away for free
 
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BlueSky1976
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 77E For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:24 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 5):
Yeah I think the 40 million is close to what this bird ACTUALLY cost Mr. Anderson's Delta. Let's see him tweet another flippant remark about how much it cost to refurbish the airplane. I bet it will cost well north of the $7 million he's squawking about today.

LOL. So much for 'that is BS' comments from Randy Tinseth. I'll put it in the same book as "A321 is catching up wiht 737-900ER"... LOL...

I bet the 777 Delta bought for 7 mil is going to be used as a source for spares... No need for D-check in that case...

Either case, mr. Anderson will have the last laugh.
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Erebus
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 77E For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:27 pm

Any chance of this being a part of a broader deal signed with Boeing including the 20 737-900ERs recently?
 
jetblue1965
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 77E For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:30 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Delta's Anderson: I was wrong about US$10m for a used 777-200. I signed a LoI for a used 777-200 for US$7.7m yesterday.
Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 10):
I bet the 777 Delta bought for 7 mil is going to be used as a source for spares...

If his intention is really to buy just for spares, maybe what he bought was a 777-200A, not the ER version. The A-version has basically zero value in any market. Whether it was ER or non-ER wasn't clear from his statement.
 
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enilria
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:36 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 7):

Just one? That's a bit odd...
Quoting deltalaw (Reply 2):
Interesting to buy just one at a time.

Unless it is a sister to existing aircraft it is pretty expensive and difficult to have a single uniquely configured aircraft in your fleet. I would hope the avionics and bulkhead layout are common to existing aircraft. Otherwise, it isn't too good of a deal.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Is it an old Singapore Airlines 777 or do we know where its coming from ?
Quoting skipness1E (Reply 6):

Are we absolutely sure they're not parting it out?

Maybe they are. Unless it is a sister to other current or future aircraft I think parting out is the only practical use.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:42 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 3):
That bird will most likely need a Heavy D check plus cabin refurbishing before it

enter service, plus the cost od a new DL paint job. So final tab may end up closer to

$40 mill or so
Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 5):
Yeah I think the 40 million is close to what this bird ACTUALLY cost

Of course. But every second-hand airplane will need to be refurbished. So unless the aircraft is in terrible condition, the lower the purchase price, the lower the overall costs will be.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
ultrapig
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:43 pm

Does the $7M include engines and if so what is the cost to "overhaul' them? How long does this whole procedure take and will an airline generally then own the plane or sell and lease back?
.
 
Flighty
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:46 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 5):
I bet it will cost well north of the $7 million he's squawking about today.
Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 10):
Either case, mr. Anderson will have the last laugh.

Considering the substance of the argument, DL ought to bring it into service for RA to win the argument. DL Tech Ops is very capable obviously, so if it is an appropriate config, no matter what age or condition (sans damage), DL can bring it up to standard.
 
sxf24
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:47 pm

I've heard this is an ex-SQ airplane that will be parted out. It does not include serviceable engines or an interior. Of course, what I've heard could be wrong.
 
micstatic
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:05 pm

maybe the bought one sitting in las vegas right now  
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:13 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 5):
Yeah I think the 40 million is close to what this bird ACTUALLY cost Mr. Anderson's Delta

NZ just spent $US5.5m per frame to put in new seats and AVOD in their 8 77E's. . I find it hard to believe that DL are going to spend more than $7 or $8m on top of the frame cost to put it into service. They probably have the seats in inventory.
 
ThReaTeN
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:18 pm

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 17):
I've heard this is an ex-SQ airplane that will be parted out. It does not include serviceable engines or an interior. Of course, what I've heard could be wrong.

Talk about vindication of Richard Anderson if this is true... You've got some serious egg in your face Boeing.   
 
roseflyer
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:23 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 19):
They probably have the seats in inventory.

I doubt that would be true. The only seats DL would have are from 747s unless they try to recover the old seats. That would only work for economy and still would not offer the IFE system that they have. I don't think they'll be attempting to put the 747 seats into a 777. That would create very wide aisles. Delta usually buys new seats and galleys as far as I know so that they can have a more standardized fleet.

[Edited 2015-12-17 08:23:38]
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:32 pm

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 21):
I doubt that would be true. The only seats DL would have are from 747s unless they try to recover the old seats. That would only work for economy and still would not offer the IFE system that they have. I don't think they'll be attempting to put the 747 seats into a 777. That would create very wide aisles. Delta usually buys new seats and galleys as far as I know so that they can have a more standardized fleet.

I think DL currently has an umbrella contract with B/E Aerospace for Pinnacle Y seats. This is the model of Y seat that is going into all of DL's domestic refurb aircraft, and perhaps DL may have already locked in pricing with them and could easily order more seats for this aircraft if they decide to put it into service.

[Edited 2015-12-17 08:33:31]
Yes, I wear Fairy Tale Pink IZOD shirts. I am a real man.
 
neutronstar73
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:48 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 10):
Either case, mr. Anderson will have the last laugh.

We'll see about that. If Mr. Anderson is playing "I told you I can get 777s for less than 10 million" but "I didn't actually mean "serviceable condition to put it into service" then yes, you are right, he will have the last laugh.

However, the tenor of his argument was Boeing offered him 777s for "10 million", so that means Boeing offered him flying birds for 10 million, and if Anderson can show the books on how he got the plane in Delta-spec flying and operating condition for 10 million, he wins. If not, he loses and he has egg on his face.

We'll see if this 7.7 million dollar bird will be for spares or will be in fleet use.
 
tortugamon
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:50 pm

Lets wait until we see if it is a 77E and not just a 77A. Certainly these prices are without engines and interiors. I really could see this being used for parts. A 77E with life in it, engines on it, and seats in it would not be $7.7 Mil.

tortugamon
 
jbs2886
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:56 pm

Probably part-out. Slide 43 of the investor day presentation: "Purchased 46 aircraft or engines for green time or part-out in 2015 and expect to materially expand this effort in 2016"
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:02 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 24):
I really could see this being used for parts.

Are there many parts that have to be scrapped ? I would think the majority can be rebuilt . One frame being parted out is not going to generate more than one set of parts . How far are these going to take you? None of these are likely to be consumable items like seals, bearings, electronic bits and pieces etc. You are likely to end up with all sorts of fasteners and other hardware items.
 
B757Forever
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:29 pm

This aircraft is feedstock for DL's parts harvesting program. It will never fly with a widget on it.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
sxf24
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:33 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 26):
Are there many parts that have to be scrapped ? I would think the majority can be rebuilt . One frame being parted out is not going to generate more than one set of parts . How far are these going to take you? None of these are likely to be consumable items like seals, bearings, electronic bits and pieces etc. You are likely to end up with all sorts of fasteners and other hardware items.

It is almost always cheaper to buy life limited parts (LLP) that have life left in them than overhauling existing parts. When an airplane is scrapped, there is a small number of parts that have value.
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:16 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 3):

As the Leeham newsletter stated day or 2 back, if DL bought a 77E for $7mill,

That bird will most likely need a Heavy D check plus cabin refurbishing before it

enter service, plus the cost od a new DL paint job. So final tab may end up closer to

$40 mill or so

I have a hard time believing the total cost will be $40 million. A D-check, inventory and a repaint is not going to cost $30 million ++. If tortugamon is right in his predictions that the aircraft was sold with no engines, then the total cost could be in that ballpark. But not with engines included in the sale.
 
Flighty
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:20 pm

Quoting B757Forever (Reply 27):
This aircraft is feedstock for DL's parts harvesting program. It will never fly with a widget on it.

There we go. So Richard was kinda right, but so were the critics of the statement.
 
audidudi
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:21 pm

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 29):

I would assume that engines would be included, otherwise how on earth would it be flown to the US, unless the engines would be removed and returned to the seller afterwards?
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:31 pm

All we need is the prices of 777s to drop some more and fuel to go back to 2$ barrel, and we are starting to have a shot at reasonable private wide body jets. It could be flown on a pay-to-fly scheme by folks needing hours.
 
IADCA
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:53 pm

Quoting audidudi (Reply 31):
I would assume that engines would be included, otherwise how on earth would it be flown to the US, unless the engines would be removed and returned to the seller afterwards?

If it's truly just a parts donor, there's no need to fly it to the U.S. at all. Scrap it in place and either fly or ship the usable parts over.
 
omerlich
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:07 pm

I wouldn't touch any ex SQ bird if they'd pay me.. such a horrible config and galleys
(this is coming fron an FA that works on 2 ex SQ 744)
 
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litz
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:51 pm

Quoting audidudi (Reply 31):
I would assume that engines would be included, otherwise how on earth would it be flown to the US, unless the engines would be removed and returned to the seller afterwards?

Unless it's already parked in the desert ...
 
JAAlbert
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:49 pm

So where do you store a 777 that you intend to part out? Do you dismantle it and put it on the shelf someplace or do you park it out back of the garage with the rusted 57 Chevy chassis and dented water heater? Can this plane even fly?
 
Qantas744er
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:53 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 36):
So where do you store a 777 that you intend to part out? Do you dismantle it and put it on the shelf someplace or do you park it out back of the garage with the rusted 57 Chevy chassis and dented water heater? Can this plane even fly?

Delta purchased two SQ 747-400BCF's from SQ Cargo as part donors for their B744 fleet.

Both were already in storage at KVCV. So this B777 may already be in storage at one of the major storage facilities such as Victorville, CA.
You live and you die, by the FMA
 
rlwynn
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:56 pm

What would need to be replaced that would make the cost of a D check $40 million?
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JAAlbert
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:00 pm

Quoting Qantas744er (Reply 37):
Delta purchased two SQ 747-400BCF's from SQ Cargo as part donors for their B744 fleet.

Both were already in storage at KVCV. So this B777 may already be in storage at one of the major storage facilities such as Victorville, CA.

So the plane stays in storage and anytime they need a door or a flap or a whatever they send a team over and pull the part off the plane? How much does it cost to store a plane in the desert? That sounds like it could get expensive.
 
n471wn
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:15 pm

I love all these 2nd hand deals the majors are making and no one would have ever believed that UAL would be buying 17 A-319's from Spirit!!
 
SATexan
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:19 pm

Wait until Tim Clark finds out about DL buying second-hand birds from craigslist !!!!

  
 
tootallsd
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:22 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 19):
They probably have the seats in inventory.

This is a specious argument. Using inventory may reduce the cash out the door aspect but there is still an investment of the inventory value of those seats.
 
strfyr51
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:30 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 5):
Yeah I think the 40 million is close to what this bird ACTUALLY cost Mr. Anderson's Delta. Let's see him tweet another flippant remark about how much it cost to refurbish the airplane. I bet it will cost well north of the $7 million he's squawking about today.

in any case refurbing a used 777 is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying it new. Delta Has the capability to maintain it so it matters little where it came from as lang as the fuselage was sound. United bought 10 747-sp's and 6 L1011-500's years ago and 5 more B747-123's Overhauled all of them and flew them all over the world. reliably .
I don't think for one minute it matters whether the airplane is new or used as long as you can maintain and support it.
I maintain airplanes for a living and each one has their OWN personality so it's and adventure no matter what. I've been to Delta's facility and they have guys who can rise to the occasion, And? They'll learn a few things they DIDN'T know before with this airplane..
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:40 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 23):
We'll see if this 7.7 million dollar bird will be for spares or will be in fleet use.

Either way it spells doom for the used market in the oncoming years.
lots of people laughed at the 10 million tag, and he got a lot cheaper than that !!!

Maybe they will go the super cheap way, do a D check, put new carpets, paint it and used for heavy density transcons...and give the other carriers a major headache.

RA never ceases to amaze...

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:42 pm

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 44):
Either way it spells doom for the used market in the oncoming years.

Even more, Boeing stock dropped after Mr Anderson made the announcement.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...77-jet-wiped-out-boeing-stock-gain

Quote:
Boeing Co. fell after Delta Air Lines Inc. revealed it is purchasing a used 777 jetliner for $7.7 million, reviving concerns that plunging values for some wide-body models signal that the market is glutted.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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zkojq
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:47 pm

Maybe he bought the BA 777 that had the incident in Las Vegas recently (G-VIIO). Coincidence that we hear that it will fly again on the same day as this DL announcement?   

Quoting n471wn (Reply 40):

Spirit? I thought UA's "new" A319 acquisition was coming from China Southern?
First to fly the 787-9
 
n471wn
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:51 am

no UAL is acquiring the 319's from Spirit
 
futureorthopod
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:15 am

Quoting n471wn (Reply 48):
no UAL is acquiring the 319's from Spirit

Please tell me we now consider December 17th "December fools day?"
If this is the case I'll be purposely avoiding all UAL A319 flights
Looks like I'll be transitioning to freq flyer status on another airline other than United sooner than I thought.
 
travelhound
Posts: 1866
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RE: DL Buys Second-hand 777 For Just $7.7 Million

Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:25 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 3):
That bird will most likely need a Heavy D check plus cabin refurbishing before it

With Delta having their own tech ops. they could schedule the refurbishment of the aircraft during low periods.

As for engines, they probably have quite a few 777 spare engines, so if these purchased units are due for a refurb, they could simply cycle them through the system.

I'd suggest for an airline as diverse in operations as Delta there could be synergies associated with buying older aircraft and refurbishing them in house.

It will be interesting to see where this 777 came from!

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