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KarelXWB
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SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:37 am

Brussels Airlines next year will expand its fleet by adding two more A330 aircraft. With Jet Airways pulling out of Brussels Airport, SN will operate BRU-YYZ from April 2016, code-sharing with Air Canada.

Quote:
Brussels Airlines plans a major expansion of its long haul network. Their fleet will welcome two additional Airbus A330 aircraft. Next spring the airline launches flights to Toronto, now that Jet Airways has announced it is leaving the route. In addition, the offer to Africa and the US will be expanded.

Press release:
http://press.brusselsairlines.com/br...invests-in-intercontinental-growth

[Edited 2015-12-18 01:38:57]
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behramjee
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:42 am

From Google translate:

Brussels Airlines announced Friday that it is expanding its fleet with two Airbus A330s. At the same time it was announced that Toronto from April will be added to the route network. Moreover, the carrier is more likely to Kigali (Rwanda), Entebbe (Uganda) fly.

Toronto by adding to the route network, Brussels Airlines will fill the gap that Jet Airways leaves. On Monday it was announced that the Indian airline from late March at Zaventem no longer active and the route to include Toronto ceasefire. The Canadian city will be five times per week by Brussels Airlines with the A330 will be flown. The ninth A330 will join the fleet next spring.

Kigali is from spring to six times a week and visited Entebbe four times a week. It also lists can open new airline routes to Lagos and Libreville. The airline expected within twelve to fifteen months to receive its tenth A330.

Collaborations

On route to Toronto is Air Canada codeshare partner Brussels Airlines. United Airlines will next year twice daily between Zaventem and Newark flying. On these flights is posted on the code of Brussels Airlines. Tickets for these flights can also be bought at Brussels Airlines.

The Belgian carrier will also perform an additional flight to Washington, making the total number of convenient flights to this city six times a week. The airline will consider alternatives in collaboration with partner Air India a new route to Mumbai, India to open. Brussels Airlines, Air India, United Airlines and Air Canada are all Star Alliance member.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:24 am

So, A++ responds to 9W moving...

I wonder if the near-monopoly of the joint-venture on BRU-NYC will eventually drive DL out of the BRU-JFK market, thus effectively creating a monopoly...

Next year BRU will also start the tendering for the extension of the A-pier in Western direction, the project finally got green light according to an insider...
 
bralo20
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:35 am

The complete press release in English can be found here:

http://press.brusselsairlines.com/br...nvests-in-intercontinental-growth#
 
HB-IWC
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:02 am

So apparently a second daily UA-operated EWR BRU rotation as well?

Quoting Conti764 (Reply 2):
I wonder if the near-monopoly of the joint-venture on BRU-NYC will eventually drive DL out of the BRU-JFK market, thus effectively creating a monopoly...

I agree and I also wonder for how much longer AA will be able to sustain its single daily B752 to PHL.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:10 am

Used A330s, I assume. I wonder where they are coming from. They already have A330s with GE and PW so they might as well add RR.

I flew them BRU-Kigali-BRU in March and I was impressed.

Surely a candidate for the A330neo down the line?
 
SR4ever
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:11 am

Any prospects for more SN longhaul destinations outside Africa?

I m thinking of SFO (again), GRU, PEK/PVG, SIN...
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:18 am

Quoting PM (Reply 5):
Used A330s, I assume. I wonder where they are coming from. They already have A330s with GE and PW so they might as well add RR.

One A330 is ex-Singapore Airlines (confirmed by Brussels Airlines via their Facebook page).

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bralo20
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:24 am

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 6):
Any prospects for more SN longhaul destinations outside Africa?

I m thinking of SFO (again), GRU, PEK/PVG, SIN...

BOS & SFO are high on the list.

YYZ was just a reaction on 9W parting BRU, also BOM is being considered in co-operation with AI but no final decision yet at this point.

PEK is being flown by HU and HU has also requested to reopen PVG so I doubt that they will be flown by SN anytime (soon or late) in the future.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:30 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4):

I agree and I also wonder for how much longer AA will be able to sustain its single daily B752 to PHL.

The 2nd daily UA rotation is merely a replacement for 9W, it doesn't add much seats nor does it increase the frequency. Not sure if it will have results on the fares but I don't think so at this point.


Not sure about AA750/1, it seems they are still happy about it.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:54 am

Quoting apuneger (Reply 7):
One A330 is ex-Singapore Airlines (confirmed by Brussels Airlines via their Facebook page).

Very good. Thanks.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:58 am

Quoting apuneger (Reply 7):
One A330 is ex-Singapore Airlines (confirmed by Brussels Airlines via their Facebook page).

Only 1 SQ A330 is available on the second-hand market: MSN 1098.
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:00 am

Quoting PM (Reply 5):
Surely a candidate for the A330neo down the line?

When the A330neo was launched, SN was my first thought of an airline that would be a prime customer. Lets hope it happens one day!  
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:05 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4):
I agree and I also wonder for how much longer AA will be able to sustain its single daily B752 to PHL.

Really? That is the only AA flight to BRU is a single daily 752 from PHL? I can remember flying AA on a 762 ORD-BRU, with abouth 4 dozen Travel Center managers for American Express (the company I was working for at the time) So my boss shows up for the same flight in Portland & flew right behind us in F to ORD on the M80, no vacation yet.

We had confirmed J class, my boss rode in Y to BRU. Upon arrival we found the Dali Lama was coming through customs also & he stayed at the Hilton with us for the one night we were there in Brussels until we took the Thalys to Amsterdam.
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na
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:07 am

Its time they get new long haul planes, their current A330s are very old, some among the first built.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:13 am

Quoting na (Reply 14):


Its time they get new long haul planes, their current A330s are very old, some among the first built.

Can they afford it?
 
na
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:24 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 15):
Can they afford it?

Sooner or later they have to. A 21 year old A330 wont fly on forever.
 
bralo20
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:39 am

Quoting na (Reply 16):

Sooner or later they have to. A 21 year old A330 wont fly on forever.

But an older Boeing/MD will? Look at Delta for example with plenty of older planes in the fleet.


Yes, SN's A330's are old(er), the oldest ones are from 1994 while the youngest is a 2000 one but they are very well maintained and are still happily flying even into less civilized parts of the world (Africa) where tech support and parts aren't readily available. (OK, they fly around with a bunch of spareparts in the belly and a mechanic on board but still, it doesn't happen frequently that one of the A330's is AOG for a mechanical reason).

But I agree, on one day in the future they will need to be retired, wetter it will be in 1 to 5 years or 10+ years will remain to be seen. If I had to guess I expect the oldest to be replaced in the next couple of years.


Anyway, when you're inside SN's A330's you won't notice it that you'll be flying one of the oldest A330's around, they are up to date with a more then decent economy section and a very nice business section. I flew with SN in both Y and C and it was a very pleasant experience.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:47 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 11):
Only 1 SQ A330 is available on the second-hand market: MSN 1098.

That's the one that will arrive in SN's fleet next year, SN confirmed it on their FB page. With 6 years of age it will be the youngest A330 in SN's fleet and also another engine type addition (the other ones are powered by GE and PW engines).
 
na
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:47 am

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 17):

I am not saying that they are bad or whatever, I am only saying some of the A330s are old and a replacement naturally cant be too far away. Not next year, but I would expect that the 1994-frames wont fly beyond 2020.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:50 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 11):
Only 1 SQ A330 is available on the second-hand market: MSN 1098.

If that is indeed true that is a further proof of the incredible success of the type.
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:54 am

Quoting na (Reply 16):
Sooner or later they have to. A 21 year old A330 wont fly on forever.

They can always replace the oldest models with other, newer second-hand A330s.

[Edited 2015-12-18 03:54:34]
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:57 am

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 6):
Any prospects for more SN longhaul destinations outside Africa?

MIA. Duh...   
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:05 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 21):
They can always replace the oldest models with other, newer second-hand A330s.

Or anything that is available within the LH group.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:12 pm

Quoting na (Reply 16):
A 21 year old A330 wont fly on forever.

The oldest one is actually 22,5 years old
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:46 pm

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 8):
YYZ was just a reaction on 9W parting BRU

I can't speak for EWR and United, but Brussels Airlines didn't go and find an A330 in the few weeks since Jet announced they were leaving.

The plan has long been in the making. Air Canada confirmed over a year ago the goal was to fly to BRU from YUL and YYZ non-stop with each carrier operating one flight. The only thing that surprises me is that Brussels is doing YYZ. I expected them to fly to YUL and Air Canada to switch to a 788 for YYZ.

Quoting na (Reply 16):
Sooner or later they have to. A 21 year old A330 wont fly on forever.

As busy as they were trying to source additional A330s for their fleet, they also have a working group looking at the future of the long-haul fleet.

That said, as others have pointed out, the aircraft are very well maintained and the interiors have been totally overhauled over the past two years.

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 9):
The 2nd daily UA rotation is merely a replacement for 9W, it doesn't add much seats nor does it increase the frequency. Not sure if it will have results on the fares but I don't think so at this point.

Hard to predict. Jet Airways certainly hasn't impressed anyone with their marketing efforts to promote their flights ex BRU. United will certainly do a better job. Not to mention better connections at both ends of the flight and Brussels having a profit-sharing incentive to help drive sales.
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:15 pm

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 18):
That's the one that will arrive in SN's fleet next year, SN confirmed it on their FB page. With 6 years of age it will be the youngest A330 in SN's fleet and also another engine type addition (the other ones are powered by GE and PW engines).

Does SN have power by the hour agreements, or some deal with LH Technik? It seems odd to have 3 engine types for a relatively small fleet.
 
bralo20
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:29 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 26):
Does SN have power by the hour agreements, or some deal with LH Technik? It seems odd to have 3 engine types for a relatively small fleet.

Not sure about the current status, I've been to SN Maintenance a few times and back then (a few years ago) they did all maintenance (except heavy maintenance) in house (last time I was there they were actually working on an A333). Heavy maintenance and installing one of the new interiors was sourced out (LH Technik in Malta I think).

Guess their mechanics are (or will be) certified for all engines, which is actually necessary since they have a mechanic flying with them on their Africa flights.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:33 pm

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 27):
Guess their mechanics are (or will be) certified for all engines, which is actually necessary since they have a mechanic flying with them on their Africa flights.

Sure, but three different engines mean many different spare parts to keep. That's rather expensive for a relatively small fleet. Many airlines try to avoid subtypes.

[Edited 2015-12-18 05:36:24]
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SwissCanuck
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:41 pm

Will they be part of the JV on BRU-YYZ with AC/LH/UA/LX or will we actually see some competition ?
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:45 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 26):
It seems odd to have 3 engine types for a relatively small fleet.

Brussels Airlines is not in the financial position to acquire brand new A330s so they depend on the after market for fleet expansion. However, not many second-hand A330s are available as the A330 retirement cycle has yet to kick in. That gives them little choice regarding engine types. Sometimes you have to make the best of it.
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bralo20
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:46 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 28):

Sure, but three different engines mean many different spare parts to keep. That's rather expensive for a relatively small fleet. Many airlines try to avoid subtypes.

I admit, I found it quite surprising when I heard a while ago that the next A330 would be an RR powered bird but on the other hand, when you are obtaining second hand birds and you need them in a rather short periode of time you can't be to picky. And it's not that there are a lot of decent A330's currently on the market.

Still, it remains a bit strange, I had a quick look in SN's fleet during the past decades (when it was still Sabena/Sobelair since Brussels Airlines is virtually a revival of those airlines) and it seems they always had either GE or PW powered long haul planes, never a RR powered one.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:48 pm

Quoting SwissCanuck (Reply 29):
Will they be part of the JV on BRU-YYZ with AC/LH/UA/LX or will we actually see some competition ?

All TATL flights operated by SN/AC/UA/LX/LH... are part of the Atlantic ++ joint venture.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:53 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 25):
The plan has long been in the making. Air Canada confirmed over a year ago the goal was to fly to BRU from YUL and YYZ non-stop with each carrier operating one flight. The only thing that surprises me is that Brussels is doing YYZ. I expected them to fly to YUL and Air Canada to switch to a 788 for YYZ.

I suspect that AC chose YUL because there is more J demand for the flight than from YYZ. YUL has the ICAO and IATA which I think would generate more premium demand. The reason AC serves BRU with its 333s instead of the 763s is because it has more J seats, if you look at Y there are often many seats available even in the peak summer schedule. Same goes for GVA being served from YUL and not YYZ.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:28 pm

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 33):

I suspect that AC chose YUL because there is more J demand for the flight than from YYZ. YUL has the ICAO and IATA which I think would generate more premium demand. The reason AC serves BRU with its 333s instead of the 763s is because it has more J seats, if you look at Y there are often many seats available even in the peak summer schedule. Same goes for GVA being served from YUL and not YYZ.

A bit of that is also the Francophone links that YUL can provide to places like BRU GVA LYS CMN. Out of those 4, only GVA receives AC service to YYZ, the other 3 are YUL exclusives.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 25):

Hard to predict. Jet Airways certainly hasn't impressed anyone with their marketing efforts to promote their flights ex BRU. United will certainly do a better job. Not to mention better connections at both ends of the flight and Brussels having a profit-sharing incentive to help drive sales.

UA doesn't need to do any marketing at all. Given that the flights are intra-alliance hub-to-hub and over North Atlantic (not some obscure pair), the flights practically sell themselves.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:07 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 34):
is also the Francophone links that YUL can provide to places like BRU GVA LYS CMN. Out of those 4, only GVA receives AC service to YYZ, the other 3 are YUL exclusives.


The GVA flight is actually routed YYZ-YUL-GVA so no direct flight from YYZ. AC834/835
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:11 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 28):
Sure, but three different engines mean many different spare parts to keep. That's rather expensive for a relatively small fleet. Many airlines try to avoid subtypes.

Someone with insider knowledge on another site is clearly hinting that the plan is to evetually roll over the A330 fleet with former SQ birds when those become available. That way they'd standardize on RR, which makes sense given the fact that LX and LH also have RR for their A330s.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:11 pm

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 35):

The GVA flight is actually routed YYZ-YUL-GVA so no direct flight from YYZ. AC834/835

Whoops my bad. Another confusion of using wiki.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:21 pm

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 8):
YYZ was just a reaction on 9W parting BRU, also BOM is being considered in co-operation with AI but no final decision yet at this point.

Interesting, will be a very good addition to BOM if they can make it happen, though if AI are involved the station ex-India will most likely be DEL instead.
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:23 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 25):
Hard to predict. Jet Airways certainly hasn't impressed anyone with their marketing efforts to promote their flights ex BRU. United will certainly do a better job.

9W likely didn't care too much about the Belgium market. BRU was (is) just a scissor hub where folks from DEL and BOM (and MAA and BLR in the past) could interconnect between flights to onward destinations further west. Simple as.
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:31 pm

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 27):
Guess their mechanics are (or will be) certified for all engines
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 36):
That way they'd standardize on RR

Going for RR with TotalCare package I assume, LH Technik is certified to work on RR engines.
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:38 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 37):
Whoops my bad. Another confusion of using wiki.

Wiki lists direct flights right alongside nonstop flights, which can indeed be confusing.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:00 pm

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 17):
they fly around with a bunch of spareparts in the belly and a mechanic on board but still

Out of interest, how prevalent is this practice on other airlines ?
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:08 pm

It mentions the possibility of expanded US routes. Could they be looking at returning to BOS or perhaps SFO, ORD?

I fondly remember flying Sabena from BOS to BRU. Hopefully one day SN will return to BOS, perhaps 3 or 4 times weekly.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:15 pm

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 31):
it seems they always had either GE or PW powered long haul planes, never a RR powered one.

Everybody's gotta learn sometime...  
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 36):
Someone with insider knowledge on another site is clearly hinting that the plan is to evetually roll over the A330 fleet with former SQ birds when those become available. That way they'd standardize on RR, which makes sense given the fact that LX and LH also have RR for their A330s.

Wise move.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:53 pm

Quoting georgiabill (Reply 43):
It mentions the possibility of expanded US routes. Could they be looking at returning to BOS or perhaps SFO, ORD?

I fondly remember flying Sabena from BOS to BRU. Hopefully one day SN will return to BOS, perhaps 3 or 4 times weekly.

BOS and SFO are on the list, ORD is being flown by UA so no need to fly that since UA, SN, AC,... are all in the Atlantic ++ joint venture.
 
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:12 pm

Nice to see SN adding to the longhaul fleet. I flew SN for the first time last summer and thought it was a nice change from the usual LH dance in FRA. The heavily-banked North American arrivals at BRU do put a strain at customs though.

Since UA has left JFK for good, is there any discussion about SN moving BRU-NYC service to EWR too?
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RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:34 pm

Quoting intotheair (Reply 46):
Since UA has left JFK for good, is there any discussion about SN moving BRU-NYC service to EWR too?

The current setup is better - 1x JFK plus 2x EWR, giving both a frequency and airport choice. NYC's O&D is huge enough, both to BRU and to Africa, that no connections are really needed.
 
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EPA001
Posts: 3893
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:08 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 44):
Everybody's gotta learn sometime...

Only you could have written that here.  

But is is interesting that they now will also have some RR-powered A330's. That might make for an interesting comparison.
 
AirGAbon
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: SN To Receive Two Additional A330s, Adds YYZ

Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:09 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 1):
It also lists can open new airline routes to Lagos and Libreville.

Would be good to see them back in LBV! Last time it was still Sabena with A310 BRU-DLA-LBV))

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