pzurita1
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MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:39 pm

According to GulfNews reporting with Bloomberg info, both cities are on top of the wish list for the airline. However, MEX will have to wait for Boeing 777X to be delivered in 2020.

I guess this ends with years of speculation about the ever "imminent" service to MEX. May be TK and EY can get ahead.

BER on the only hand depends on the limited bilaterla agreement, a topic long discussed here.

http://gulfnews.com/business/aviatio...at-top-of-route-wishlist-1.1623421
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thekorean
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:47 pm

Even with 77X I am pretty sure they can't do nonstop without severe payload restriction west bound.Triangular route is possible now but I suppose EK doesn't want to do that.
 
G500
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:03 pm

Nah. I dont think so. I'm not a betting man but if I was, I'd bet the farm that Emirates lands in MEX before the end of 2016..... Or 2017 at the latest.

It's gonna be a via somewhere. Mexico city's elevation is 7300ft. It's a hard sell for any aicraft to take off from that altitude and fly non-stop for 15 hours.
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:07 pm

They should make a stop at CUN or MTY and then MEX...

Yep MEX altitude kills it.

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enilria
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:14 pm

Quoting pzurita1 (Thread starter):
BER on the only hand depends on the limited bilaterla agreement, a topic long discussed here.

Will BER be open by 2020???
 
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lesfalls
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:17 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):

They announced 2220 So it's not that far away in airline years  
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
CXfirst
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:00 am

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 3):
They should make a stop at CUN or MTY and then MEX...

Yep MEX altitude kills it.

A stop both ways? Or just one? EK could fly nonstop to MEX, it is the flight back that might need a stop somewhere.

-CXfirst
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:06 am

Could EK fly DXB-MEX-YUL-DXB? Is the UAE/Canada bilateral only restricted to n/s UAE-Canada and not triangles?

Or via BCN? EK could do DXB-MEX-BCN-DXB to capture pax in MEX and BCN, and have an A330 or another 777 fly between DXB-BCN-MEX-BCN-DXB, to capture the local BCN-MEX traffic. EK can definitely do 2x daily in MEX.
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A350
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:53 am

For Berlin it would be really helpful to have additional longhaul Service despite we already have QR. But politics won't allow for it.

A350
 
UAEflyer
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:48 am

Why it is difficult or hard to fly from MEX ?
 
b747400erf
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:51 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 6):

A stop both ways? Or just one? EK could fly nonstop to MEX, it is the flight back that might need a stop somewhere.

A 77L could make it from DXB but some weight restrictions due to limited routes and strong headwinds. The return would need a stop because of the high elevation otherwise large weight restrictions and any delays for either route could strain duty time for crew. I don't see much profit in that to compete with European airlines.
 
B8887
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:12 am

I think it's EK that will wait for BER and not the other way around. Would they consider SXF in the meantime?

Regards.

B8887
 
G500
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:25 am

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 9):

Why is it so hard to fly from MEX?



Hot and humid, combined with an elevation of 7300ft. Engines don't perform well under those conditions. An airplane cannot take off under those conditions and fly for 15 hrs.

That's why aeromexico had to stop in northern Mexico on their way to japan
 
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seahawk
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:26 am

It is time for an Open Skies agreement between Germany and the UAE. It is a joke that the bilateral denies the people travelling from Berlin the chance to fly EK.
 
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CARST
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:45 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 13):
It is time for an Open Skies agreement between Germany and the UAE. It is a joke that the bilateral denies the people travelling from Berlin the chance to fly EK.

Are you joking? You wanna ruin Germanies airlines? I say lets end the current bilateral and have a more strict one, only allowing as much seats as there is O&D demand between Germany and the UAE. The ME3 exist for one sole reason, to steal away pax from the European, Asian and African airlines by having a much cheaper workforce. Look at all the same-looking FAs from the former Eastern Block states, the Indians and Bangladeshis working their airports and building them, too.

Get a grip, stop supporting companies that are no good for our economy at home. It is not that we have not enough options and capacity without the ME3, thus there will be no economic advantage by giving them more frequencies, god forbid the freedom of an Open Skies agreement.
 
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seahawk
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:54 pm

Protectionism never worked.
 
LondonCity
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:00 pm

Quoting B8887 (Reply 11):
I think it's EK that will wait for BER and not the other way around. Would they consider SXF in the meantime?

But under the ASA agreement, as far as I know, to serve SXF then EK would have to sacrifice another city in Germany. So far that is something it is not prepared to do.
 
a320fan
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:09 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 14):
The ME3 exist for one sole reason, to steal away pax from the European, Asian and African airlines

All airlines are trying to take pax from someone else, it's a global industry. It's just the luck of the draw that the ME3 are well placed to offer competitive connections between areas of heavy traffic flow.
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
LondonCity
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:14 pm

Quoting a320fan (Reply 17):
It's just the luck of the draw that the ME3 are well placed to offer competitive connections between areas of heavy traffic flow.

Absolutely. When EK was founded in 1985, who could have predicted the changes that were to come about in Russia/China/India ?
 
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RJ321
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:18 pm

Question, if they can do Panama non-stop, why can't they make MEX ??
 
bobdino
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:45 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 14):
Are you joking? You wanna ruin Germanies airlines?

Yes. If LH is good enough, people will fly them. If they're not, why force all Germans and all those that visit Germany from the East to use an inferior service?
 
Burkhard
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:50 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 13):
It is time for an Open Skies agreement between Germany and the UAE. It is a joke that the bilateral denies the people travelling from Berlin the chance to fly EK.

EK can fly from Berlin any day, they just should be honest that in tiny Germany there are four airports they choose instead of Berlin.
 
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CARST
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:51 pm

Quoting RJ321 (Reply 19):
Question, if they can do Panama non-stop, why can't they make MEX ??

Panama City is close to sea level, engines work good there at full power. Mexico City is a hot & high airport, engines don't work very well in that thin and hot air above 7000ft.

Quoting a320fan (Reply 17):
All airlines are trying to take pax from someone else, it's a global industry. It's just the luck of the draw that the ME3 are well placed to offer competitive connections between areas of heavy traffic flow.

But all these legacy airlines in Europe and Asia come from economical important countries and thus there is a huge O&D demand between most of them. Even the city state Singapore is such an important economic Center in SE Asia, that SQ was never just another ME3 airline based solely on connecting traffic. Of course all these legacies tried to grow by connecting more and more pax through there hubs. AF is taking pax away from LH, LH from BA, BA from AF, etc, but their business model was never made of transporting connecting pax for the majority of their seats. Huge difference.

And despite this being a game of globalisation, the Asian and European airlines are nearly on one playing field, while the ME3 build their own playing field with cheap labour. Partly with slave-like labour.
 
lancelot07
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:59 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 13):

It is time for an Open Skies agreement between Germany and the UAE. It is a joke that the bilateral denies the people travelling from Berlin the chance to fly EK.

Well, the bilateral doesn't really deny it. EK's choice of options offered in the bilateral does. But Berliners could drive to HAM, if they really wanted to.

Quoting RJ321 (Reply 19):

Question, if they can do Panama non-stop, why can't they make MEX ??

As has been mentioned, MEX's high altitude -over 2000m- and hot climate is detrimental to engine power and lift. The problem is taking off from MEX with a fully loaded plane on the return trip to DXB.
 
txlbased
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:29 pm

Quoting B8887 (Reply 11):
Would they consider SXF in the meantime?

Why should they fly to/from SXF? TXL would be just fine, BUT it depends on the AC they choose. An A332 could use a jet bridge in TXL, 777 is remote parking. And TXL such as SXF isn´t a380 ready.
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RJ321
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 22):
Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 23):

Danke !
So, will this problem be solved if aircraft with more engines a(A380,A340 series, more engines = more lift) ? If so, why doesn't EK deploy an A340 to MEX ?
 
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mercure1
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:24 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 13):
It is time for an Open Skies agreement between Germany and the UAE. It is a joke that the bilateral denies the people travelling from Berlin the chance to fly EK.

  

Quoting CARST (Reply 14):
The ME3 exist for one sole reason, to steal away pax from the European, Asian and African airlines by having a much cheaper workforce.

There is no thing such as stealing. No ones owns me as a passenger. No airline be it AF, or LH has a right to my business just because I might live in a certain nation or fly a certain flag.

As consumer I seek best pricing, product, service that meets my needs. If this is EK, QR, EY, TK that manages to offer the best option for me I will utilize them. Its no different that me buying clothes, a TV or a car where consumer can have lots of choice.

Its not my problem as a travelers, nor do I wish to protect any airline for the sake nationalism. Travel has become a commodity. If AFKL or LH cant compete shame on them, and let them go the way of the dinosaur.

Oh and on the argument of state owned vs private, lets not forgot Europe's legacy airlines were themselves protected for half a century under government tutelage and inefficiency.
As far as labor cost, airlines pay whatever the local market wage is. Be it Dubai, Tokyo, New York, Addis Ababa, or London. Its hardly a foreign nations problem that Europe has become the worlds most expensive and difficult place to employ staff.
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RJ321
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:34 pm

I believe that eventually, a price war between airlines will happen.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:47 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 15):
Protectionism never worked.

No, but we certainly do not need the conditions seen on seaships in aviation. Price wars fought entirely on the back of the employees is not acceptable in the service industry.
 
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ghost77
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:21 pm

Quoting G500 (Reply 12):


Hot and humid, combined with an elevation of 7300ft.

Well, I agree, it's high, but is it really that hot and humid? Look at the current weather conditions at noon:

http://s9.postimg.org/osz2mhlbz/Mexico_City_temperature_19_DIC2015.jpg

17°C (63°F) and 48% humidity. Of course, elevation by itself is a big obstacle, even when the jetstream would help a lot.

[Edited 2015-12-19 11:34:05]
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lancelot07
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting RJ321 (Reply 25):
Danke !
So, will this problem be solved if aircraft with more engines a(A380,A340 series, more engines = more lift) ? If so, why doesn't EK deploy an A340 to MEX ?

Gern geschehen !
Unfortunately, more engines will not help since on a quad, each of them produces less thrust. Under normal circumstances, they don't need more. They would have to build a special version of a quad with oversized engines (creating a lot of issues), but i am afraid there is no business case for that. There are not that many large airports that are a problem, even less routes - and the solution with a refueling stop is cheap and easy.
And EK will retire the A340 soon.

Quoting ghost77 (Reply 29):
Well, I agree, it's high, but is it really that hot and humid? Look at the current weather conditions at noon:

Well, this is winter. What about a hot day or evening in July or August ?

[Edited 2015-12-19 12:04:38]
 
Planesmart
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting pzurita1 (Thread starter):
According to GulfNews reporting with Bloomberg info, both cities are on top of the wish list for the airline. However, MEX will have to wait for Boeing 777X to be delivered in 2020

One of the EK performance guarantees Boeing & significant others are sweating over as we type. And I'm sure it won't be qualified, based on limiting seats offered.
 
Rara
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:59 pm

I'm sure EK would fly to Berlin right now if Berlin aviation wasn't such a mess. SXF is run-down and tiny, and TXL is totally overcrowded and not really fit for VLA.

As soon as BER opens (2017 by current plans, but may slip into 2018), I expect EK will drop another Germany city (I'm guessing DUS) and fly the A380 to BER, twice daily eventually. That'll likely be accompanied by a large marketing campaign.

Quoting a350 (Reply 8):
For Berlin it would be really helpful to have additional longhaul Service despite we already have QR. But politics won't allow for it.

I don't really see the need. With plenty of connections to LON, PAR, AUH, IST and others, Berlin already has a one-stop connection to all of the world's major markets. EK wouldn't add much to that, but it would make the life of European airlines so much harder.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
321neo
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:47 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 14):
You wanna ruin Germanies airlines

No German airline flies from Berlin to Dubai, and the only German airline with significant presence in Berlin is Air Berlin, which is owned by EY...

Quoting CARST (Reply 14):
The ME3 exist for one sole reason, to steal away pax from the European, Asian and African airlines

It's important to understand that airlines don't "own" market share, therefore it is impossible to have it "stolen" from them.

The reality of the situation is that the development of the ME3 airlines has proven to be a disruptive force in the industry, just as countless other industries are and have being disrupted; bad news for protectionist governments and incompetent airline management, good news for airline customers the world over.
 
SR4ever
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:18 am

Perhaps a deal could be found between EY and EK, so that:

- all EY Germany-UAE flights are handed over to AB (with a further product upgrade at AB); and

- the released quota ex-EY could be transferred to EK
 
FF22DXB
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:34 am

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 30):
Well, this is winter. What about a hot day or evening in July or August ?

Actually the hot season in Mexico City is April and March, with highs of around 28-30°C and that drops at night. Its a high airport, not a hot one...

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 34):
Perhaps a deal could be found between EY and EK, so that:- all EY Germany-UAE flights are handed over to AB (with a further product upgrade at AB); and- the released quota ex-EY could be transferred to EK

That could create come controversy   
 
incitatus
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:39 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 15):
Protectionism never worked.

American farmers have done well for decades under protectionist policies handed out by the American Congress.

Another example is BA - it also benefited from protectionist and favorable government policies for about 30 years since its creation in 1974.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
PanHAM
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:53 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 15):
Protectionism never worked.

What protectionism? The UAE have agreed to the bi-lateral whoch gives them the chunk of traffic between Germany and the UAE. Two airlins operate many more flights than German Airlines. They have 4 destinations in Germany whilst the UAE can offer only 2 destinations that are viable. However, under the conditions of an uneven playing field, LH has pulled out of AUH and will reduce DXB because These flights can no longer operate profitable.

Neiter EK nor EY employ a Major work force in Germany. Which means the gross of the revenues collected here will be taken out and not contribute to the German social System. You will not get your Pension from the UAE, hence the sovereign German state must make sure that German companies have theoir share in bi-lateral traffic.


Quoting 321neo (Reply 33):
No German airline flies from Berlin to Dubai, and the only German airline with significant presence in Berlin is Air Berlin, which is owned by EY...

As mentioned by others, EK can fly from Berlin any time they want, they just have to give up another market, which would be the smallest of the four they serve now which is HAM.

They could run every hour on the hour if they want from any of the four cities in Germany whoich THEY choose. LH does not have a Monopoly in Germany, never had a market share grater than 40% in total. Germany is a free and competetive market but it is the Job of the German government to mainatin an equal playing field. The Status quo is by far in favor of the ME3 and light years from equal. EY is de facto running an Airline in Germany which is against the treaties and the law. Law seems to be something the UAE does not give a damn about,

Ten daily flights by EK plus the flights by EY vs 2 flights by German carriers right now., whoeever claims unfair practices by Germany against the UAE should check his maths.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
tortugamon
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:18 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 37):
They have 4 destinations in Germany whilst the UAE can offer only 2 destinations that are viable.

USA airlines have what 4 destinations in Germany? How many destinations do Germany destinations have in the US? 17?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 37):
Neiter EK nor EY employ a Major work force in Germany. Which means the gross of the revenues collected here will be taken out and not contribute to the German social System. You will not get your Pension from the UAE, hence the sovereign German state must make sure that German companies have theoir share in bi-lateral traffic.

Its a good thing for Lufthansa that the US does not similarly agree. It is protectionism.

More connectivity does provide value to a society and its businesses even if the operating airline doesn't directly contribute to someone's pension.

tortugamon
 
lancelot07
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:28 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 38):
USA airlines have what 4 destinations in Germany? How many destinations do Germany destinations have in the US? 17?

US airlines can fly anywhere in the EU they want, AND so do EU airlines in the US. There is an open sky between US and EU. It is on a reciprocal basis and good for all.

It is not the EU's fault that the UAE can't offer any value in return.
 
PanHAM
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:23 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 38):
USA airlines have what 4 destinations in Germany? How many destinations do Germany destinations have in the US? 17?

US carriers can fly to any Destination they want, in Germany and they have beyond rights. Currently 6 or 7 cities are served by US carriers and LH has a JV with UA. In the old days PA operated a German domstic Airline connecting with a world wide Network with unlimited rights to other countries from Germany.
FX and UPS enjoy open skies on freight Services whilst LH still cannot pick up freight in the US and fly that cargo direct to the Far east without stopping in Germany. The US and Germany provide an equal playing field, cost wise the difference is not as big as it is between Germany and the UAE. In summary, you made a bad comparison.

The German public has all the connectivity they Need, especially those living near hubs. But three or more daily flights to European destinations Need connctivity as well to be sustainable and with the mE3 poaching in foreign markets for indirect Connections, the European connectivity will suffer. And that is a far greater number than the L/D flights.

The ME3 are third Country carriers contributing Little to the single European market economies, much less than the carriers based in the single market do.

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 39):
It is not the EU's fault that the UAE can't offer any value in return.

        

The ME3 Business model works to a certain extend. The UAE have reached the Limit some time ago but they still want more without having anything to offer in return.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
lancelot07
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:53 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 40):
The German public has all the connectivity they Need, especially those living near hubs.

There doesn't seem much demand for flights to DXB. LH only flies once daily from FRA and MUC, AB doesn't fly at all.
 
tortugamon
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:04 am

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 39):
US airlines can fly anywhere in the EU they want, AND so do EU airlines in the US. There is an open sky between US and EU. It is on a reciprocal basis and good for all.

It is not the EU's fault that the UAE can't offer any value in return.

By that logic then any small/medium sized nation really should not enter into open skies.

Its clear the vast majority of the World is going toward open/free/fair. I think that is a good thing. I can't imagine a boat from a safe nation not being accepted at a port because their originating country exceeded their quota. Its short sighted and infantile.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 40):
US carriers can fly to any Destination they want, in Germany

Woohoo, thats like saying that any EU carrier can fly to Texas. I love the country but lets not overstate this economic benefit to the people of the US.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 40):
The US and Germany provide an equal playing field, cost wise the difference is not as big as it is between Germany and the UAE.

I think the safety record of the airline is relevant but why their costs? The US has open skies with 100+ nations. The vast majority have lower costs including most of Europe where the GDP per capita of even the richest nations wouldn't qualify to be higher than the poorest state of the US; clearly they earn less. Were the originators of that agreement idiots where they have put the US economy in jeopardy? I don't think so.

http://mises.org/blog/if-sweden-and-...they-would-be-among-poorest-states

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 40):
But three or more daily flights to European destinations Need connctivity as well to be sustainable and with the mE3 poaching in foreign markets for indirect Connections, the European connectivity will suffer.

Why does the EU 'own' that traffic? I fly through FRA and LHR all the time to places in Africa or the Middle East. Its not like LH traffic only Originates/Concludes in Germany. Just because the ME3 traffic has a higher degree of connecting traffic then they should be precluded? Germany is trying to protect LH. Its fine, lots of nations do similar things but lets not pretend its open/free/fair/capitalistic. Its protectionist.

tortugamon
 
WearyDrover
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RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:07 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 40):
without having anything to offer in return.

Their passengers would almost certainly disagree. So would others who benefit from the trade imbalance which is about 9:1 in Germany's favour.

As to the UAE not respecting the law, when LH acquired a former Swiss airline a law had to be hastily passed saying that a German-owned airline was really Swiss so as to circumvent ownership restrictions in number of bilateral agreements.

And for all the talk of level playing fields, LH has a massive advantage in being an airline based in the single aviation market so that ownership becomes less important. The UAE has signed an agreement with the EU that accepts that LH does not have to be majority German-owned but EU citzenship-owned. Yet Germany, which benefits from this liberalisation, insists on strict ownership restrictions when it suits them.
A man may learn wisdom even from a foe - Aristophanes
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:10 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 36):

American farmers have done well for decades under protectionist policies handed out by the American Congress.

Every country has farming protections. Price controls, tariffs, subsidies, etc. That is a different market than competing transportation companies.

[Edited 2015-12-20 01:11:36]
 
lancelot07
Posts: 1084
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:22 pm

RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:15 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 42):
Why does the EU 'own' that traffic?

Because it owns the sky over its territory. It is a question of sovereignity, just like e.g. taxation.
You give something and you get something in return - that is how it works. And it works well with the US, and almost all other countries.
 
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seahawk
Posts: 9058
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:15 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 28):
No, but we certainly do not need the conditions seen on seaships in aviation. Price wars fought entirely on the back of the employees is not acceptable in the service industry.

If it means cheaper tickets, why not?

What makes the airline industry so special, that it must be protected. If LH can not compete with the ME3 they deserve to go down. Just like any other major cooperation unable to survive in a global market. Nobody saved the German clothing industry, the German TV manufacturers and other consumer electronics, the mining industry,....
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6795
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:21 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 44):
Every country has farming protections. Price controls, tariffs, subsidies, etc. That is a different market than competing transportation companies.

Agreed food is about national security. Every nation needs to be able to feed itself even if it isn't of the highest and best use of the land.

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 45):
Because it owns the sky over its territory.

LH isn't only capturing traffic of people immediately flying over Germany. I would argue that the US airlines are flying a much higher percentage of O&D people that are flying to/from the USA. LH doesn't own the passenger. If I am flying from Paris to DXB I should have every right to connect in Berlin as I do in FRA. Right now I don't. Germany is protectionist.

tortugamon
 
lancelot07
Posts: 1084
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:22 pm

RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:24 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 47):
If I am flying from Paris to DXB I should have every right to connect in Berlin as I do in FRA. Right now I don't. Germany is protectionist.

Well, you might try to persuade Air Berlin to fly to DXB 
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: MEX And BER Will Wait For EK Until 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:26 am

Quoting RJ321 (Reply 25):

So, will this problem be solved if aircraft with more engines a(A380,A340 series, more engines = more lift) ? If so, why doesn't EK deploy an A340 to MEX ?

With added engines comes added weight of the larger airplanes. If you added 2 more engines to a 77L body you could make it out no problem. But an A340 and A380 do not have better climb performance than the 77L.

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