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Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:16 pm

http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...Plans-Return-Cuba-Announces-Review

"With tremendous opportunities in Cuba now emerging just off the shores of our primary market, it is exactly the right time to pursue strategic alternatives for our airline."

Cuba is not so surprising; everyone wants in on that. But the "strategic alternative" (merger/acquisition) possibility is intriguing. Who would want them?
 
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dabpit
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:29 pm

With Silver being big in Florida I am willing to bet B6 could be a strong contender for acquiring Silver. The only other two airlines I could see wanting Silver are UA or AA.
Carpe Diem
 
Italianflyer
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:23 pm

Interesting press release. Behind the happy talk I think this confirms the a.net suspicion that their long term viability is questionable. It's unlikely that anyone is willing to buy a regional outright these days. However I can see them getting cozy with B6s growing ops in FLL & MCO. AA has their own feed in place and Silver dosent bring anything to the table. UA & DL are wild cards; but my intuition says UA dosent care about the intra-state market and DL has been burned by it before and learned it's lesson.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:03 pm

Quoting dabpit (Reply 1):


The only other two airlines I could see wanting Silver are UA or AA.

Or the New Eastern. Of course wanting and affording are two different things.  
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
slider
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting Web (Thread starter):
Who would want them?

Simply, Silver (and really predecessor Gulfstream) had developed many relationships within Cuba and throughout the Caribbean. It's not an easy place to operate and they have some history there that's very crucial for anyone wanting to operate to some of the smaller places they fly.
 
catiii
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting dabpit (Reply 1):
With Silver being big in Florida I am willing to bet B6 could be a strong contender for acquiring Silver. The only other two airlines I could see wanting Silver are UA or AA.

Out of curiosity, what exactly does everyone think Silver has that B6, UA, or AA would want that those carriers can't get via a codeshare?
 
masseybrown
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:22 pm

Anybody acquiring Silver would be like the old Eastern acquiring Mackey; they'd keep a couple of the best routes and trash the rest of the company. Since even Silver's international routes are pretty much open to anybody who wants to fly them, why bother with the acquisition? Just fly the route.

Only the new EA might do it - for the certificate.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:31 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 6):


Only the new EA might do it - for the certificate.

And the "right" to use the old slogan "Fly The Silver Fleet".

Before anyone takes my Eastern/Silver suggestion too seriously, its as about as likely as AA changing it's name to Lake Central.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
Italianflyer
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:54 pm



Kinda cool to see this again  )))
 
czek6
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 5):
Out of curiosity, what exactly does everyone think Silver has that B6, UA, or AA would want that those carriers can't get via a codeshare?

Interestingly, Silver says they have codeshares/partnerships with jetBlue and United.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:05 pm

Skywest.   

UA is the weakest airline in Florida, maybe they should make a play for Silver. In fact, Gulfstream used to be a CO Connection character.

Before a possible merger, could Silver use Key West as a hub to Cuba, connecting the southern states? And then TPA and PBI or FLL to connect the rest of Florida to Cuba.

B6 could buy them and name it propellerBlue. Big grin

[Edited 2015-12-21 12:32:52]
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
catiii
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:51 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 6):
they'd keep a couple of the best routes

Huh? This isn't a regulated industry where you're buying route authorities. Again, what routes does Silver have that another carrier couldn't just start on their own? This is a small regional carrier flying Saabs.

Quoting czek6 (Reply 9):
Interestingly, Silver says they have codeshares/partnerships with jetBlue and United.

They do.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 10):
UA is the weakest airline in Florida, maybe they should make a play for Silver.

To do what exactly?
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:54 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 10):
propellerBlue.

propSilver
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
harleydriver
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:17 pm

Quoting Italianflyer (Reply 8):
Kinda cool to see this again )))

Ahhh, thanks for the memories!! I worked for Bar Harbor Airlines in Bangor, ME back in the late 80's and early 90's when they became Eastern Express and had the SF340's and ATR42's in EA Express livery. I always loved EA's paintjob, a nice combination of light and dark blue.
Department of Redundancy Department
 
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enilria
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:34 pm

Quoting dabpit (Reply 1):
With Silver being big in Florida I am willing to bet B6 could be a strong contender for acquiring Silver. The only other two airlines I could see wanting Silver are UA or AA.

Why? For the pilots?
 
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STT757
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:06 pm

Quoting harleydriver (Reply 13):
Ahhh, thanks for the memories!! I worked for Bar Harbor Airlines in Bangor, ME back in the late 80's and early 90's when they became Eastern Express and had the SF340's and ATR42's in EA Express livery. I always loved EA's paintjob, a nice combination of light and dark blue.

There's a scene in the movie Pet Cemetery where they're at an airport in Maine getting off a Bar Harbor flight in Eastern Colors.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:53 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 10):
UA is the weakest airline in Florida, maybe they should make a play for Silver. In fact, Gulfstream used to be a CO Connection character.

I remember that as well.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Flightline Aviation Media - Bruce Leibowitz

sUA and Silver still have adjoining gates /and/ codeshare at JAX and TPA.
 
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dabpit
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:00 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 3):
Or the New Eastern. Of course wanting and affording are two different things.  

Would be interesting but that is wishful thinking.

Quoting catiii (Reply 5):
Out of curiosity, what exactly does everyone think Silver has that B6, UA, or AA would want that those carriers can't get via a codeshare?
Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
Why? For the pilots?

B6 likes Gateway programs to get qualified pilots into their growing network. Having Silver would give B6 an even stronger hold on the Florida market. There will come a time when they will want an express division just a matter of when, I believe this has been discussed before.

As for UA it would just be more feed and money/losses going direct. The silver flights that fly to the Bahamas from MCO are primarily made of passengers connecting on UA.

AA would probably just use Silver as a way to cut the feed that UA and B6 were getting. Then they would more than likely re-position Silver to do flying to routes that are not economical with the ERJ145/135 from MIA.
Carpe Diem
 
catiii
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:37 pm

Quoting dabpit (Reply 17):

B6 likes Gateway programs to get qualified pilots into their growing network.

Totally irrelevant. The Gateway programs they have, which are VERY successful, didn't involve buying Cape Air or ExpressJet. You don't need to buy Silver to get qualified pilots...

Quoting dabpit (Reply 17):
aving Silver would give B6 an even stronger hold on the Florida market. There will come a time when they will want an express division just a matter of when, I believe this has been discussed before.

The intra-Florida market...which is not remotely as profitable and not in line with the HVG strategy JetBlue has based its network on. Furthermore, the value proposition for the customer of flying on JetBlue is that you are flying on JetBlue, and not a regional.

Quoting dabpit (Reply 17):
As for UA it would just be more feed and money/losses going direct. The silver flights that fly to the Bahamas from MCO are primarily made of passengers connecting on UA.

Why would they need to buy Silver? They can just amp up the codeshare. Why take on the assets?

No one has put forth a rationale cogent explanation for why a major US carrier would want to buy a middling (at best) regional with 34 outdated Saab turboprops. Such an acquisition makes zero sense for anyone that isn't already a regional carrier.
 
tom11
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:48 pm

9K maybe?? Small plans, PTP local routes, the 9K specialty.
 
masseybrown
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:19 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 11):
Huh? This isn't a regulated industry where you're buying route authorities. Again, what routes does Silver have that another carrier couldn't just start on their own? This is a small regional carrier flying Saabs.

Silver has an established identity in several Bahamas markets that a new competitor cannot match overnight; that's the main reason lots of companies are acquired.
 
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dabpit
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:15 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 18):
Totally irrelevant. The Gateway programs they have, which are VERY successful, didn't involve buying Cape Air or ExpressJet. You don't need to buy Silver to get qualified pilots...

Not irrelevant. Yes the program is successful. Maybe at some point they will buy Cape Air (highly unlikely though). That wouldn't be the only reason to buy Silver...

Quoting catiii (Reply 18):
The intra-Florida market...which is not remotely as profitable and not in line with the HVG strategy JetBlue has based its network on. Furthermore, the value proposition for the customer of flying on JetBlue is that you are flying on JetBlue, and not a regional.

Just like it was stated many times that B6 would never have a first class product? Or get another aircraft that is not an A320 or E190?

Also Silver has an extensive route network from FLL to the Bahamas and they do some flying from IAD (this might be EAS flights though).
Carpe Diem
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:20 pm

Quoting dabpit (Reply 21):
IAD (this might be EAS flights though).

The IAD flying is all EAS. I doubt anyone would want it.

I don't see anyone rushing to buy Silver.
 
catiii
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:32 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 20):
Silver has an established identity in several Bahamas markets that a new competitor cannot match overnight; that's the main reason lots of companies are acquired.

An established identity built up by a whole 4 years of flying...that would be gone within the blink of an eye if it is acquired. Northwest had an established identity in Asia when Delta bought them. How long did they keep the Northwest franchise around? The Silver brand means nothing and there is no benefit to acquiring it when you can codeshare with it and get all the benefits with none of the headaches.

Quoting dabpit (Reply 21):
Not irrelevant.

So explain to me the additional benefits gained by the Gateway program if B6 bought those carriers?

Quoting dabpit (Reply 21):
Just like it was stated many times that B6 would never have a first class product? Or get another aircraft that is not an A320 or E190?

In the last 15 years have you seen JetBlue deviate from the HVG strategy? And on acquisition:

No Merger Fervor

Asked whether JetBlue sees a merger with another airline in its future, Hayes said Jetblue is “still very committed to our organic growth plan.”

Said Hayes: “There’s no change in our focus of building this company one airplane at a time.”

That's not changing...

http://skift.com/2015/01/29/jetblue-...es-of-fares-in-the-second-quarter/

[Edited 2015-12-22 10:33:24]
 
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dabpit
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:11 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
The IAD flying is all EAS. I doubt anyone would want it.

That is what I thought. Could dump the routes and use the airplanes elsewhere.



Quoting catiii (Reply 23):
So explain to me the additional benefits gained by the Gateway program if B6 bought those carriers?

More control over the program.

Quoting catiii (Reply 23):
And on acquisition:

Southwest use to say the same thing and now look where they are at. They will change that as they see fit.

Cape Air could be a contender to purchase Silver. But would they want to expand that much and acquire larger airplanes?
Carpe Diem
 
NASBWI
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:54 pm

Quoting dabpit (Reply 24):
Cape Air could be a contender to purchase Silver. But would they want to expand that much and acquire larger airplanes?

Although it's a completely separate market, 9K already operates the ATR-42 out of Guam. Perhaps its their core market that can't support larger aircraft. Doesn't their success within the US and Caribbean hinge on the equipment they use (pistons vs turboprops)? Not to mention the cost savings of having one pilot per plane rather than two, plus a flight attendant.
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
catiii
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:45 pm

Quoting dabpit (Reply 24):

More control over the program.


It's JetBlue's program. Are you familiar with the program? JetBlue controls every aspect of it...

Quoting dabpit (Reply 24):

Southwest use to say the same thing and now look where they are at. They will change that as they see fit.


And yet the CEO said it publicly earlier this year and privately at internal pocket sessions this quarter. So to think a near term acquisition of Silver by JetBlue is a possibility, a necessity, a likelihood, or even on their radar just doesn't reflect the facts.
 
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dabpit
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:46 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 26):
It's JetBlue's program. Are you familiar with the program? JetBlue controls every aspect of it...

Yes I am familiar with the program. B6 does not control the part of the program that takes place at Cape Air.

Back to the topic:

Quoting catiii (Reply 26):
So to think a near term acquisition of Silver by JetBlue is a possibility, a necessity, a likelihood, or even on their radar just doesn't reflect the facts.

Anything is a possibility in this industry. As opportunities come up companies will change their position. B6 has changed their stance before just like every airline out there.
Carpe Diem
 
silentbob
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 5):
Out of curiosity, what exactly does everyone think Silver has that B6, UA, or AA would want that those carriers can't get via a codeshare?

There aren't many viable options for code share expansion in the current market. Acquisition of a company, like Silver, would also be easier (and likely less expensive) than adding a new type to the certificate of the purchasing company. With major airline branding, they could potentially generate enough additional revenue to more than pay for the acquisition. A purchase of Silver also guarantees that the flights will continue to operate and feed the hub of the purchasing airline, something that a simple code share could never ensure.

I'm not saying it will happen, but I can see scenarios where it would make sense. AA could add it to the other three wholly owned regionals in its portfolio and use it to grow MIA within the state of Florida, though I don't see that happening. It would be a stretch for B6, but that would give them an express component that most of the majors have. The new Eastern is an interesting consideration as well, that would certainly allow them to feed a hub and build pretty quickly. The only one I think we can definitively rule out is WN.
 
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JBo
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:57 pm

It's entirely plausible that Silver could be acquired by one of the larger regional players (SkyWest Inc, RAH, Mesa, Trans States) and maintained as a separate certificate rather than acquired by anyone else.

I see this as more likely than any of the mainline carriers acquiring them to operate as a wholly-owned subsidiary.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
silentbob
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 29):
It's entirely plausible that Silver could be acquired by one of the larger regional players (SkyWest Inc, RAH, Mesa, Trans States) and maintained as a separate certificate rather than acquired by anyone else.

I see this as more likely than any of the mainline carriers acquiring them to operate as a wholly-owned subsidiary.

Most of the regional players have gotten out of the branded flying business in recent years and are focused on CPA flying with mainline carriers. Purchasing Silver seems unlikely from that perspective. A CPA with someone is another option, and more likely than a major purchasing them.
 
pipeafcr
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:48 pm

How awesome would it be for a merger with a South American airline    either Avianca or LATAM could make it work. Are there any restrictions on foreign airlines to have a majority control of an American airline?
Felipe Carrillo
 
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dabpit
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RE: Silver Looking To Cuba + Merger

Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:17 pm

Quoting pipeafcr (Reply 31):
Are there any restrictions on foreign airlines to have a majority control of an American airline?

Yes there is. I cannot remember off the top of my head but it isn't much.
Carpe Diem

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