WN Weather delays

PEK777 · Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:09 pm

Anybody seen what has been going on in ATL today? WN fumbled the ball pretty hard today....

strfyr51 · Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:12 pm

It happens to EVERY airline from time to time, They'll get it together..

ua900 · Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:27 pm

No, what happened? Sources would be nice.

A quick google of WN ATL doesn't show anything beside low fare ads, so I take it that ATL is still standing and WN is still flying, somewhere

bcoz · Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:30 pm

I'm flying DL through ATL this afternoon and I wouldn't exactly say things are going like a well-oiled machine for them either. The weather throughout the South has been bad yesterday and today. I think ATL had at least two groundstops so far today, although I could be wrong.

slvrblt · Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:54 pm

Can't really blame WN for the bad weather.

jetblue1965 · Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:58 pm

As of right now , WN has 25-30% more absolute cancellations than DL mainline despite, systemwide, but looking at the map, most can be attributed back to ATL.

[Edited 2015-12-24 11:59:31]

[Edited 2015-12-24 11:59:59]

Rdh3e · Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:59 pm

http://www.flightview.com/airport/ATL-Atlanta-GA/delay

Looks like ATL as a whole is a mess today.

[Edited 2015-12-24 11:59:41]

SXDFC · Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:03 pm

Quoting PEK777 (Thread starter):

Do YOU work in the airline industry? Do you know or understand what happens during irregular operations due to weather other issues? Sometimes on this site, you can easily tell who WORKS in this industry and who doesn't..

Cubsrule · Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:13 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 5):
As of right now , WN has 25-30% more absolute cancellations than DL mainline despite, systemwide, but looking at the map, most can be attributed back to ATL.

One side effect (maybe intentional, maybe not) of DL's average gauge being so much larger at ATL than at any other hub is that ATL is isolated to a degree from the rest of the system. I'm also not sure that WN cancelled down much today, and DL did, at least on the highest frequency routes.

PEK777 · Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:35 pm

My expert analysis of the situation is that wn does not have enough slack in the fleet, and this combined with short tUrn times resulted in effects of the domino. Wn is rebooking people 30 hours out. DL holds the cards now with those 717s. WN really could have used those extra frames today

delimit · Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:39 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 7):
Do YOU work in the airline industry? Do you know or understand what happens during irregular operations due to weather other issues? Sometimes on this site, you can easily tell who WORKS in this industry and who doesn't..

Whoa there, tiger.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 5):
As of right now , WN has 25-30% more absolute cancellations than DL mainline despite, systemwide, but looking at the map, most can be attributed back to ATL.

wedgetail737 · Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:47 pm

Sorry guys...I did the smart thing this year...stayed home!

ua900 · Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:48 pm

Ok, no meltdown and not specific to WN, so much for the thread title. 1. DL is getting hit by this too. 2. Looks like delays in NY area far exceed ATL delays: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/12/23/weather-airport-delays/

Might as well call this the UA meltdown at EWR given the quoted average delay of close to 3.5hrs vs. the 1 hour at ATL. But of course it's weather so what can you do? Not exactly the airline's fault and far from a meltdown. All delayed passengers will be on their way within the 24-48 hours, no big deal, just bad timing. And most passengers only face a couple hours of delays. Should have travelled off season

jetblue1965 · Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:50 pm

Quoting ua900 (Reply 12):

I'm at theAdmirals Club at JFK T8 now but the whole board looks clear. Guess it's affecting other airlines then.

Rdh3e · Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:29 pm

Quoting ua900 (Reply 12):
Ok, no meltdown and not specific to WN, so much for the thread title. 1. DL is getting hit by this too. 2. Looks like delays in NY area far exceed ATL delays: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/12/23/weather-airport-delays/

That article is about yesterday, which was indeed a mess.

bahadir · Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:54 pm

Both ATL and NYC airports were a mess yesterday due to weather. You cannot blame it on the operator when airports suffer thunderstorms, low ceilings and major delays due to weather.

whisperjet727 · Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:06 pm

Isn't really news when it happens like clockwork every year. There is the option of staying home.

GSP psgr · Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:16 pm

I got screwed when AA scotched most of their evening Eagle flights out of DCA; there's not much capacity to go around, though I'll be making it home for dinner by going through PIT and CLT. I actually didn't think the weather was even all that bad at DCA last night, but apparently it was.

aztrainer · Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:18 pm

Right now there is a delay at ALT of an hour due to weather.

From PHX DL 5 flight (One diverted to MEM- 2841) and one delayed 1773. WN has 7 flights also with 2206 being the only delayed flight. This is a weather issue and not a systemic issue with WN.

canyonblue17 · Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:49 pm

Can we change the title to Weather Meltdown?

AWACSooner · Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:01 pm

Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 19):
Can we change the title to Weather Meltdown?

Nope...we must bash WN at every opportunity. They are evil because they don't charge for bags and don't assign seats and their FA's have a sense of humor in their announcements.

catiii · Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:05 pm

Quoting PEK777 (Thread starter):

Anybody seen what has been going on in ATL today? WN fumbled the ball pretty hard today....

What should WN have done to mitigate record storms for this time of year.? I'd love to hear your expert operational analysis.

Quoting ua900 (Reply 12):
Ok, no meltdown and not specific to WN, so much for the thread title. 1. DL is getting hit by this too. 2. Looks like delays in NY area far exceed ATL delays: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/12/...lays/

Agreed. Thread title needs changing.

sparky35805 · Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:13 pm

We have had two rounds of diversions from ATL here (HSV) today due to bad weather in ATL.Only saw Delta,but we get WN and AA diversions here on occasion.You learn to live with delays due to severe weather down here but nut this time of the year.

wnflyguy · Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:32 pm

Looking up divisions and canceled flights for ATL everyone taken a big hit today.
WN probably over flying ATL and canceled severe delayed flights instead of further impacting there system.

But Haters are going to Hate because it's WN in ATLANTA.

Notice DL had vs there size to WN in ATL had roughly the same number of cancelled flights.
But no DL Christmas Eve Meltdown as the heading. Typical for A.net

Flyguy

compensateme · Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:49 pm

DL is an even bigger mess, simply because it is a bigger airline than WN. I'm not surprised DL's completion rate will be higher -- its operating heavily reduced schedules today and tomorrow; there's simply not enough slack in its network to accommodate thousands of stranded passengers, and the PR nightmare (it IS Christmas) would be damaging for its brand.

I was scheduled to fly DTW-ATL-SJD today, but on Monday decided I'd rather go out a day earlier. A controversial decision within my family but th scheduled DTW flight diverted and the scheduled SJD flight is running 8 hours later.

airliner371 · Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:24 am

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 9):
717s. WN really could have used those extra frames today

And if WN had kept them, they would've been scheduled regardless, they wouldn't be sitting there incase of irregular ops.

n471wn · Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:29 am

a strictly political thread from a WN hater and it should be deleted

jeb94 · Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:02 am

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 9):
My expert analysis of the situation is that wn does not have enough slack in the fleet

I hate to say it but these days most airlines don't have any slack in the fleet. An airplane that sits costs money, more so when its leased, as almost all newer frames are. With falling fuel prices there is an increase in flying from pretty much everyone. This means less ability to cover for delays. Airlines also have laws they have to follow (Passenger Bill of Rights) which cause them to cancel flights due to large scale weather systems much faster since its the easiest way to ensure compliance with those laws. This is not unique to WN or anyone else. I present Christmas of 2014. http://www.weather.com/forecast/nati...tmas-week-forecast-white-christmas

jetblastdubai · Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:51 am

Quoting bahadir (Reply 15):

Both ATL and NYC airports were a mess yesterday due to weather

Which is why IAD is such a gold mine. Some people keep forecasting the closure of the UA hub at IAD but having an east coast airport/alternate that runs at a fraction of it's total capacity allows the airport to function pretty well when conditions deteriorate.

slcdeltarumd11 · Fri Dec 25, 2015 4:18 am

Quoting slvrblt (Reply 4):

Can't really blame WN for the bad weather.

This is A.net people will blame WN for everything lol. People say WN is the worst and a total failure but then Delta has longer delays or cancellations on something and its totally different and the customers unrealistic expectations are the problem.

This thread title is misleading and should be changed immediately

[Edited 2015-12-24 20:18:54]

ec99 · Fri Dec 25, 2015 4:54 am

Quoting n471wn (Reply 26):
a strictly political thread from a WN hater and it should be deleted

I'm no SWA hater and due to their very customer friendly no change fee rule I fly them as much, if not more, than any other airline out of BOS. That said, I do find their scheduling misleading at times. Most recently my wife was flying them MKE-BOS. I checked her flight on flightaware and noticed that her flight was scheduled to depart at 725pm but the plane she was supposed to be taking was not scheduled to land until 730pm. No surprise, her flight didn't take off till 815.

If costs are similar ill pick SWA over everyone but maybe B6. However, I do wish their scheduling was a little more realistic and can see how their scheduling could worsen weather related delays

b747400erf · Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:20 am

Quoting ec99 (Reply 31):
I checked her flight on flightaware and noticed that her flight was scheduled to depart at 725pm but the plane she was supposed to be taking was not scheduled to land until 730pm.

The plane could have been delayed at any one of the previous routes of the day. That happens when you run a tight schedule, and delays out of your hands like weather, or back up at airports, can happen.

MaverickTTT · Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:23 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 7):
Do YOU work in the airline industry? Do you know or understand what happens during irregular operations due to weather other issues? Sometimes on this site, you can easily tell who WORKS in this industry and who doesn't...

It would be funny if it weren't kinda sad. The people who enjoy aviation as a hobby that love to play Armchair Operations Control and "lob grenades" at the experienced people that do this for a living, day-in and day-out, are probably the thing that beats me down the most about this site. You can throw in your actual-expert opinion and you'll be shouted down by the fanboys who have little to no concept of how small disruptions can lead to huge problems downline, let alone actually understand how operational control of a sizable airline is maintained.

Without knowing final numbers for either operation and basing entirely on opinion and conjecture thrown around in this thread, I'll say "good on DL" if they were, indeed, able to do a better job than WN today. You can pull that off when you have the operational footprint that they do at ATL. When you don't have that advantage, there are times when you have to cut your losses...and, in the southeast today, it was one of those days where it was best to protect your overall network.

TheRedBaron · Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:41 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 20):
Nope...we must bash WN at every opportunity. They are evil because they don't charge for bags and don't assign seats and their FA's have a sense of humor in their announcements.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 23):
But Haters are going to Hate because it's WN in ATLANTA.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 29):
This is A.net people will blame WN for everything lol.

Another of core Anet truths. LOL

Quoting MaverickTTT (Reply 33):
You can throw in your actual-expert opinion and you'll be shouted down by the fanboys who have little to no concept of how small disruptions can lead to huge problems downline, let alone actually understand how operational control of a sizable airline is maintained.

Amen to this, I do not work at the airline industry but in any business that has very tight time schedule or logistics, the domino effect can happen swiftly and you end up with a lot of troubles. Nobody is perfect but unfortunately a lot of PAX fly Xmas with tight schedules and the end result is this... I bet all ATL ops are delayed.

TRB

wjcandee · Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:01 am

Quoting MaverickTTT (Reply 33):
I'll say "good on DL" if they were, indeed, able to do a better job than WN today.

The most exceptional thing about DL in Irops, of course, is DeltaMatic (or whatever they call it now). I can just go to a kiosk with the boarding pass for my now-cancelled flight, scan it, and Voila!, I have a new boarding pass for the replacement flight. If I don't like it, I can call a human, but if that's fine, then I'm fine, and I haven't had to stand in line, wait on hold, or talk to a human, which is all good because I'm probably not feeling very human myself in Irops. Or, for those of us who like to play with that little supercomputer in our pocket that everyone thinks of as a phone, all I have to do is use the Delta App, and I have my new boarding pass without even having to go to a kiosk. Now that's pretty-convenient, and how well it all works makes DL really special in Irops. At least that has been my experience, almost-exclusively at ATL because that's where I have experienced most of those kind of issues.

DL747400 · Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:41 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 36):
The most exceptional thing about DL in Irops, of course, is DeltaMatic (or whatever they call it now). I can just go to a kiosk with the boarding pass for my now-cancelled flight, scan it, and Voila!, I have a new boarding pass for the replacement flight. If I don't like it, I can call a human, but if that's fine, then I'm fine, and I haven't had to stand in line, wait on hold, or talk to a human, which is all good because I'm probably not feeling very human myself in Irops. Or, for those of us who like to play with that little supercomputer in our pocket that everyone thinks of as a phone, all I have to do is use the Delta App, and I have my new boarding pass without even having to go to a kiosk. Now that's pretty-convenient, and how well it all works makes DL really special in Irops. At least that has been my experience, almost-exclusively at ATL because that's where I have experienced most of those kind of issues.

Yes, for those of us who travel frequently, the technology DL has put in place is really starting to give them a noticeable competitive advantage. On more than one occasion this year after finishing business meetings, I've breezed homeward bound on DL while my coworkers traveling on WN, AA, UA, etc. were delayed or CXLD and were not automatically rebooked, so they were stuck waiting in lines, waiting on hold, etc.

reltney · Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:57 pm

I did not have any issues . I started my first of 5 legs in and out of ATL in my Delta 757. ATL JFK ATL TPA ATL commute ti IAH. Not one delay or hiccup. Rare on a good day but 24DEC was great.

Cheers

usflyguy · Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:59 pm

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 37):
Yes, for those of us who travel frequently, the technology DL has put in place is really starting to give them a noticeable competitive advantage. On more than one occasion this year after finishing business meetings, I've breezed homeward bound on DL while my coworkers traveling on WN, AA, UA, etc. were delayed or CXLD and were not automatically rebooked, so they were stuck waiting in lines, waiting on hold, etc.

WN passengers can rebook themselves online.

Cubsrule · Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:08 pm

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 37):
Yes, for those of us who travel frequently, the technology DL has put in place is really starting to give them a noticeable competitive advantage.

I disagree, actually. DL is ahead in IROPS technology, but their change and cancel functionality on a normal day is behind WN. For instance, I can cancel any WN flight on the app at any time with only a few clicks. Not so on DL, where canceling a flight that is checked in requires human interaction. (And AA is even worse with its byzantine multi-step, multi-week refund process.)

EA CO AS · Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:39 pm

Quoting PEK777 (Reply 9):
My expert analysis of the situation is that wn does not have enough slack in the fleet

Did your analysis also compare the added direct and indirect costs associated with having extra slack on an annualized basis vs. the added cost of IRROPS handling for a handful of days each year?

If you did compare, I'm sure you'd find that the cost of that added slack you suggest is many tens of times more than the cost of IRROPS handling....

But hey, what do I know? I've only been in this industry for 25+ years....

United1 · Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:01 pm

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 37):
Yes, for those of us who travel frequently, the technology DL has put in place is really starting to give them a noticeable competitive advantage. On more than one occasion this year after finishing business meetings, I've breezed homeward bound on DL while my coworkers traveling on WN, AA, UA, etc. were delayed or CXLD and were not automatically rebooked, so they were stuck waiting in lines, waiting on hold, etc.

UAs system will rebook passengers automatically and will give you the options to select another itinerary via the app or web is you don't like the rebooked flights.

EMB170 · Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:09 pm

Flew EWR-ATL on DL yesterday (12/24). Can verify that both airports are a mess and it's not the airlines' fault. My flight was delayed 2 hours and most were delayed even more (one was delayed only 1 hr and another was cancelled). Overheard gate agents in EWR telling other passengers that the whole NYC airspace was a mess and UA was hurting just as badly. Once airborne, pilot says in his welcome announcement that ATL was closed for 2 hrs earlier in the day. Luckily, we got into ATL at a reasonable time, and somehow managed to avoid extremely rough turbulence the whole way. A win as far as I'm concerned.

flyiguy · Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:16 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 28):
Which is why IAD is such a gold mine. Some people keep forecasting the closure of the UA hub at IAD but having an east coast airport/alternate that runs at a fraction of it's total capacity allows the airport to function pretty well when conditions deteriorate.

IAD is a major diversion airport for DCA, BWI, PHL and to a lesser extent but possibility of JFK, LGA and EWR.

IAD has 4 runways, all over 10K feet and ILS capabilities on 3 of the 4 and huge remote ramp areas for plane parking and storage.

I recall being here for the 1st inauguration of Obama and they uses 19L / 1 R as a parking lot for all the private jets prior to it going into service.

FLY

barney captain · Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:49 pm

The longer I'm in this business, the more surprised I am that anything runs on time. The literal endless torpedoes that are possible for every departure are mind blowing. Everything from the obvious things like wx, and mx to things most don't think about like security issues. Then there's the never ending list of possible crew issues, getting stuck in traffic or in an accident, they or a family member getting seriously ill (or worse), having a a baby or any one of a myriad of last minute issues that prevent them from working. This is especially true at the out stations where there is no reserve coverage.

It seems like it's always something new, which is why when some asks "why is this flight late?" It makes me chuckle a bit. The real question should be, why is it on time?

B757Forever · Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 45):
The longer I'm in this business, the more surprised I am that anything runs on time. The literal endless torpedoes that are possible for every departure are mind blowing. Everything from the obvious things like wx, and mx to things most don't think about like security issues. Then there's the never ending list of possible crew issues, getting stuck in traffic or in an accident, they or a family member getting seriously ill (or worse), having a a baby or any one of a myriad of last minute issues that prevent them from working. This is especially true at the out stations where there is no reserve coverage.

It seems like it's always something new, which is why when some asks "why is this flight late?" It makes me chuckle a bit. The real question should be, why is it on time?

You are dead on with your assessment! That's funny, you just put into words how I've always felt...

MaverickTTT · Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:55 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 45):
The longer I'm in this business, the more surprised I am that anything runs on time.

Good grief, THIS! I always tell people that the closest thing to a miracle on this Earth is operating an airline flight on-time. There are so many outside, uncontrollable forces fighting against it...yet, we pull it off every day.

jeb94 · Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:00 pm

And the more technology gets involved it seems the more things there are to go wrong.

UALFAson · Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting reltney (Reply 38):
I did not have any issues . I started my first of 5 legs in and out of ATL in my Delta 757. ATL JFK ATL TPA ATL commute ti IAH. Not one delay or hiccup. Rare on a good day but 24DEC was great.

Then you got incredibly lucky. My friend spent 12 hours trying to get from DCA-TUL via ATL. When I left BNA Christmas Eve morning, at least 6 BNA-ATL flights were delayed and the DL gate areas were a mess.

usflyguy · Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:37 am

Quoting reltney (Reply 38):
I started my first of 5 legs in and out of ATL in my Delta 757. ATL JFK ATL TPA ATL commute ti IAH. Not one delay or hiccup. Rare on a good day but 24DEC was great.

I'm guessing that was a bad attempt at humor since Delta.com lists these 3 flights for 12/24 between ATL-JFK on a 757...
Flt. 2350 was 1:35 late getting to JFK
Flt. 843 was 3:37 late getting to JFK
Flt. 478 was 5:43 late getting to JFK.

And 0 757 flights on ATL-TPA, it was all MD-90 and 739.

As for ATL-IAH, all but two flights were over 2 hours delayed and the other 2 were over 1.5 hour late.

Tell us all again how your ATL-JFK-ATL-TPA-ATL and ATL-IAH commute was.

deltal1011man · Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:25 pm

Quoting PEK777 (Thread starter):
Anybody seen what has been going on in ATL today?

yeah and clearly you can't see that is going on with the weather. Guess what? sucked for Delta too.

that is what happens when you have rain, lightning and flooding.

this kind of garbage is very annoying to me. People who think this way are just looking to get someone hurt or killed.

I am just happy Delta and Southwest both are smart enough to have safety as the number one, not stupid pissing contest and winning the internet like some here.

anyways, getting of my soap box. Weather here (ATL) has been complete crap all week and is just going to go back to being crap tomorrow night.
Having said that, today is a lovely day.

Quoting barney captain (Reply 45):

The longer I'm in this business, the more surprised I am that anything runs on time. The literal endless torpedoes that are possible for every departure are mind blowing. Everything from the obvious things like wx, and mx to things most don't think about like security issues. Then there's the never ending list of possible crew issues, getting stuck in traffic or in an accident, they or a family member getting seriously ill (or worse), having a a baby or any one of a myriad of last minute issues that prevent them from working. This is especially true at the out stations where there is no reserve coverage.

It seems like it's always something new, which is why when some asks "why is this flight late?" It makes me chuckle a bit. The real question should be, why is it on time?

agreed. This industry is really amazing.

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