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ANA787
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DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:51 pm

According to delta.com SEA-HNL is going 737 starting April 4, 2016. Which other Mainland-HI routes will also go 737?
 
ANA787
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:55 pm

I could also see DL PDX-HNL going year round with these 739s.
 
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deltadawg
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:02 pm

What are the chances we will see some of the upcoming 321's on these types of routes from the West Coast to HNL/KOA, etc.? Perhaps even a SLC-HNL which is around 3k nm is well within the range.
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spokemd
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:20 pm

UA's flights from LAX and SFO to Kona are on 738/739 right now. I'm booked on LAX-KOA on Sat.
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nikeherc
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:26 pm

My God, that's depressing. I love Hawaii and I hate to see the journey turned in to seven years before the mast in a galley ship. Slim-line seats crammed in with two lavatories for an over water journey to paradise. It would be bad enough to face that on the way to the islands, but steerage on the way back to the real world?
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tlecam
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:33 pm

Depressing, but given the economics of these routes, a 739 probably is a smart plane choice - lots of seats, good economics. Wouldn't be surprised to see 321's on these routes either, when they arrive.
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DualQual
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:05 pm

Quoting spokemd (Reply 3):

Looking at Sat KOA is a mix of 739/753 from SFO and LAX.
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wedgetail737
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:09 pm

The 739-ERs are only effective if the prevailing winds are favorable...good for late Spring and summer months. Not so
much during the rest of the year. AS had been using 739-ER's on some of the west coast-Hawaii routes during the summers,
but refer back to 738's during other months.
 
AV8AJET
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:30 pm

I wonder if DL will install satellite based wifi on some of the 739ER's for the Hawaii flying?
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MIflyer12
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:00 pm

Quoting av8ajet (Reply 8):
I wonder if DL will install satellite based wifi on some of the 739ER's for the Hawaii flying?

It has already been noted that the DL 739s would get satellite wifi. The question is how many, or all?

https://pro.delta.com/content/deltapro/en_US/news/uk-news-archive/2015/march-2015/delta-to-upgrade-in-flight-wi-fi-and-expand-coverage-areas-for-c.html
 
MIflyer12
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:04 pm

Quoting nikeherc (Reply 4):
Slim-line seats crammed in with two lavatories for an over water journey to paradise.

DL and SeatGuru seat maps for the 739 show three lavs at the back in coach and one forward for F. That's the same lav count for 180 seats on the 739 as found with the new domestic config 75H for 199.
 
FSDan
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:13 pm

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 2):
What are the chances we will see some of the upcoming 321's on these types of routes from the West Coast to HNL/KOA, etc.? Perhaps even a SLC-HNL which is around 3k nm is well within the range.

DL will retain the 4 ETOPS certified 767-300s for a while yet, so they'll probably keep using those on SLC-HNL. It would be a large step down in capacity to go to the A321-200. Depending on how DL allocates the 321s (I haven't been able to find any in the March schedules yet), they might show up on some runs from LAX or SEA to Hawaii.
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Polot
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:21 pm

An A321 on SLC-HNL, while technically within range, might be a little problematic due to issues with SLC's elevation, winds, and possible diversion fuel issues (increasing weight)?
 
roseflyer
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:23 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 5):
Depressing, but given the economics of these routes, a 739 probably is a smart plane choice - lots of seats, good economics. Wouldn't be surprised to see 321's on these routes either, when they arrive.

Will the 737-900ER have more range than the A321s for Delta? The A321 has less range than the 737-900ER unless it has aux tanks installed. Depending on the number of aux tanks that Delta chooses to put in the range may not match the 737. Also A321 with multiple aux tanks may have some payload restrictions. I am not sure how well the A321 would work. It depends on DL's configuration.
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BDL757
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:52 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 11):
Depending on how DL allocates the 321s (I haven't been able to find any in the March schedules yet)

From what I've been told the A321s aren't going to enter service until April 2016 and are going to be used on NYC/ATL-Florida flights. The first flights will be ATL-MCO. I guess they are going to have the 321s doing shorter runs, at least in the beginning.
 
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:06 pm

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 1):
I could also see DL PDX-HNL going year round with these 739s.

No offense to PDX, but I can't see that happening based on the flights they offer now. As has been stated before, Delta's PDX-HNL flights are limited seasonal flights for as few weeks around Christmas/New Years. Nothing more.
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ripcordd
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:19 pm

Speaking of 321's to Hawaii how are AA's doing?
 
laxboeingman
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:43 pm

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 2):

What are the chances we will see some of the upcoming 321's on these types of routes from the West Coast to HNL/KOA, etc.? Perhaps even a SLC-HNL which is around 3k nm is well within the range.

AA flies their A321 on at least all of the LAX-HNL routes. AS flies 737s to Hawaii.

As mentioned, UA flies 737 on some of the Hawaii routes.
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DocLightning
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:56 pm

I've taken the AS 738 to Hawaii. As much as I griped about it to my husband ("Flying across the Pacific on a pishky little puddle jumper..."), it was really no different than flying on a 752.

The lack of internet for 5 hours of fantastic, varied scenery of...ocean...and more ocean...and yet more ocean, kinda sucked. But I was reading Joe Sutter's "747" on the way out and "Famous Shipwrecks" on the way back.
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woodsboy
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:19 pm

Does AS fly 739s to Hawaii? Never seen one here and all the flights I've ever flown on AS to Hawaii whether from the West Coast or Anchorage have been on 738s.
I guess A321s are fine for West Coast to Hawaii as evidenced by the row of AA 321s parked at the HNL terminal on any given day.
Just rode DL 752 from SEA-HNL on Sunday, one of the four ex-TZ 757s (American Trans Air). I was in row 19, Economy comfort, seat F right next to the R2 exit door, Uugh. As you know the slide on that door takes up all the legroom, its literally right in your lap. Without the recent mods these few 752s have no USB or power ports and the IFE is composed of tiny worn out LCD screens ceiling mounted above the aisle in the main cabin and one on the bulkhead for our row. Screens are washed out and impossible to see and all video is shown on VHS tapes, no kidding! A DL flight attendant friend of mine jokingly told me I might be on the last flight that plane ever makes, but I guess thats more likely going to be in early April. Service however was lovely and the seats are not the terrible slimline.
I would imagine SEA-HNL is going to be on a new 737 come April. Looking forward to the technology but not the attrocious slimline seats.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:38 pm

Could DL be the next carrier to fly SNA-HNL/OGG with the 73G?
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cageyjames
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 20):

Could DL be the next carrier to fly SNA-HNL/OGG with the 73G?

I wasn't aware they had spare airframes to have them fly across the US to do hawaii. If anyone did it though it would be AS or DL.
 
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tlecam
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 10):

Quoting nikeherc (Reply 4):
Slim-line seats crammed in with two lavatories for an over water journey to paradise.

DL and SeatGuru seat maps for the 739 show three lavs at the back in coach and one forward for F. That's the same lav count for 180 seats on the 739 as found with the new domestic config 75H for 199.

For me, the issue is the placement of the lavs all in the rear. The 75H at least has the mid-plane lav, which is helpful during catering. IT also splits the queue, so not everyone is lined up in the rear of the plane. I flew UA's 739 from BOS-DEN, and the lav set up was fine. There were issues with headwinds, but that's a different conversation.  
Quoting roseflyer (Reply 13):
Will the 737-900ER have more range than the A321s for Delta? The A321 has less range than the 737-900ER unless it has aux tanks installed. Depending on the number of aux tanks that Delta chooses to put in the range may not match the 737. Also A321 with multiple aux tanks may have some payload restrictions. I am not sure how well the A321 would work. It depends on DL's configuration.

You know, I didn't even think to check. My bad.
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seabosdca
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:15 pm

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 19):
Does AS fly 739s to Hawaii?

They do occasionally use the 737-900ER, but not usually from Seattle.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 19):
Just rode DL 752 from SEA-HNL on Sunday, one of the four ex-TZ 757s (American Trans Air).

These will be gone within the next six months. They are very high-time aircraft.

Realistically, Hawaii is always going to get the aircraft configured like a Greyhound bus. It's just the nature of the market.

[Edited 2015-12-31 12:17:01]
 
laxboeingman
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:52 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 23):

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 19):
Does AS fly 739s to Hawaii?

They do occasionally use the 737-900ER, but not usually from Seattle.

I thought the -800s were the only ones with ETOPS. I guess I am wrong, but was that ever the case? Are the only AS planes that go to Hawaii the ones that have Chester wearing a lei?
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seabosdca
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:57 pm

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 24):
I thought the -800s were the only ones with ETOPS. I guess I am wrong, but was that ever the case?

All the Alaska -900ERs have ETOPS, along with the majority of the -800s. Most of the ETOPS -800s don't have the lei. Only the earliest ETOPS -800 deliveries had the lei.
 
yeelep
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:03 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 21):
I wasn't aware they had spare airframes to have them fly across the US to do hawaii. If anyone did it though it would be AS or DL.

None of AS -700's are, and likely never will be, ETOPS equipped.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 19):
Does AS fly 739s to Hawaii? Never seen one here and all the flights I've ever flown on AS to Hawaii whether from the West Coast or Anchorage have been on 738s.

The summer of 2014 was the first time they flew them to Hawaii in any numbers. As someone posted up thread, it only works well during the middle of the year when the headwinds aren't there.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 25):
Most of the ETOPS -800s don't have the lei. Only the earliest ETOPS -800 deliveries had the lei.

That is incorrect, all the ETOPS -800's (41) except for the special liveried planes (6) have had lei's installed. The original intent was to only have lei's installed on the first batch of planes for the first few months of Hawaii service. Now with the updated livery they are eliminating the lei's.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:05 pm

Quoting yeelep (Reply 26):
That is incorrect, all the ETOPS -800's (41) except for the special liveried planes (6) have had lei's installed. The original intent was to only have lei's installed on the first batch of planes for the first few months of Hawaii service. Now with the updated livery they are eliminating the lei's.

Thanks for the correction.
 
Viscount724
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:17 pm

Quoting laxboeingman (Reply 17):
As mentioned, UA flies 737 on some of the Hawaii routes.

WS also uses the 738 on YVR-Hawaii (slightly further than SEA), currently about 6 daily, 2 each to HNL and OGG, and 1 each to KOA and LIH.
 
FSDan
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 20):

Could DL be the next carrier to fly SNA-HNL/OGG with the 73G?

I doubt it. DL has a very small fleet of 73Gs, and they are based exclusively out of ATL. They are mostly used on international routes like ATL-MEX and ATL-TGU, although they do a fair number of domestic turns as well (e.g. ATL-CHS).
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EA CO AS
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:29 pm

Quoting yeelep (Reply 26):
Now with the updated livery they are eliminating the lei's.

You mean the soon-to-be updated livery, coming January 26th...
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hiflyeras
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:38 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 30):
Quoting yeelep (Reply 26):Now with the updated livery they are eliminating the lei's.

You mean the soon-to-be updated livery, coming January 26th...

Well, technically there is currently a 'new' livery (different shades of blue and green) but it's only on a couple of recent deliveries. The new 'new' livery to be used going forward is the one being announced Jan 26th.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 31):
Well, technically there is currently a 'new' livery (different shades of blue and green) but it's only on a couple of recent deliveries.

Right, but those are all 900ERs, none of which would have ever had the lei to begin with.
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deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:29 pm

Quoting deltadawg (Reply 2):
What are the chances we will see some of the upcoming 321's on these types of routes from the West Coast to HNL/KOA, etc.? Perhaps even a SLC-HNL which is around 3k nm is well within the range.

I don't believe the 321s are coming ETOPS.

Also SLC/LAX-HNL will be keeping 1x 763 as the 4 767-300s that are Pratt 4000 powered and ETOPS are young and not going anywhere.

It will be a while before they go anywhere. (and hopefully they get new bins like the 767-300ER fleet.)
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:03 am

Quoting FSDan (Reply 29):
I doubt it. DL has a very small fleet of 73Gs, and they are based exclusively out of ATL. They are mostly used on international routes like ATL-MEX and ATL-TGU, although they do a fair number of domestic turns as well (e.g. ATL-CHS).

They do, or did, fly them to SNA. The plane could do ATL-SNA, and instead of RON-ing, it can SNA-HNL-SNA and be back around 7:30, then fly on to ATL to carry high yielding SNA pax to the European departure bank. Just an idea if they have a 73G RON in SNA, would be a good way to make some extra cash.
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stratosphere
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:09 am

Im so glad I did my trips to Hawaii years ago flew the DC-10 first class all 3 trips..Could not imagine going there in a 737
 
covert
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:31 am

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 35):

Im so glad I did my trips to Hawaii years ago flew the DC-10 first class all 3 trips..Could not imagine going there in a 737

Ehh, it's not THAT bad. It's only 5-6 hours of your life.
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yeelep
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:39 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 30):
You mean the soon-to-be updated livery, coming January 26th...

I didn't want to make that clarification because I didn't know it was for public consumption yet.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 32):
Right, but those are all 900ERs, none of which would have ever had the lei to begin with.

There are a few -800/-900's with the updated/interim livery, though I don't think any of the -800 ETOPS planes have the latest livery.
 
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RWA380
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:07 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
The 739-ERs are only effective if the prevailing winds are favorable...good for late Spring and summer months. Not so
much during the rest of the year. AS had been using 739-ER's on some of the west coast-Hawaii routes during the summers,
but refer back to 738's during other months

I've never seen a 739 or been on one either with AS, but of course that doesn't mean they aren't happening. Are the 739 flights to Hawaii run as subs, or actually scheduled? I am sure the winter months they aren't even viable to OAK or SJC.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 15):
No offense to PDX, but I can't see that happening based on the flights they offer now. As has been stated before, Delta's PDX-HNL flights are limited seasonal flights for as few weeks around Christmas/New Years. Nothing more.

Agreed 100%, there is little reason for DL to jump in year round. If there was the demand for another 737 worth of seats to Honolulu from Portland year round, AS would keep a second daily flight operating.

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 19):
Does AS fly 739s to Hawaii? Never seen one here and all the flights I've ever flown on AS to Hawaii whether from the West Coast or Anchorage have been on 738s.

Every AS flight to or from Hawaii has been on a 738, not one special livery & all the Chester's were sporting the lei.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 20):
Could DL be the next carrier to fly SNA-HNL/OGG with the 73G?

Is DL ETOPS certified for Hawaii ops on the 73G? I highly doubt it, in fact I think only AQ, CO & UA have flown the type.

Quoting yeelep (Reply 26):
Now with the updated livery they are eliminating the lei's.

Bummer, oh well, slowly but surely something else special fades away. I guess that is progress or uniformity, neither is a great option, IMO.
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Max Q
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:22 am

The constant downgrading of the travel experience on this route is not fun, a 737 is not the same as a 757, its cramped and has a bad ride.


We've gone from 747's to DC10's to 767 and 757's down to the smallest narrowbodies made by Boeing or AB, at this rate we'll be back to the DC4 soon.


Wouldn't mind the Boeing 314, at least it would be comfortable..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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Tomassjc
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:58 am

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 19):

Does AS fly 739s to Hawaii? Never seen one here and all the flights I've ever flown on AS to Hawaii whether from the West Coast or Anchorage have been on 738

Not during the winter. But quite a few times this past summer. I've only seen them between OAK/SJC and HNL/KOA though.

Tomas SJC
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dashdrvr
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:26 am

I guess I don't feel too sorry for the traveling public these days. The wanted cheap air fares. That's how you do it. 181 people on a 737 to Hawaii. Did it once on a company pass. Never again. Like the days of a DC-10 on Western Airlines.
 
dlflynhayn
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:31 pm

I don't see KOA or OGG with any 737's in the future KOA this past summer used a 757-300 and was pretty full all summer. I know DL started SEA-KOA in Dec but DL probably should have a day time flight to KOA from LAX by now not sure whats holding DL back..OGG runs two 757's from LAX-OGG which are pretty full year around.I believe from what i see on DL schedules are more of the higher density 757's with 179seats in coach going to KOA in a few months once those crappy 100 year old ex-ATA planes go away  .
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:32 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 33):
Also SLC/LAX-HNL will be keeping 1x 763 as the 4 767-300s that are Pratt 4000 powered and ETOPS are young and not going anywhere.

I think they need the capacity for SLC-HNL as much as anything. Any 737 from from SLC-Hawaii might at some point end up being used to connect the outer islands directly with SLC 2-3 times per week.
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deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:39 pm

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 42):

I half way expect to see a widebody to end up on LAX-OGG.
And I also don't see the outer island flying moving away from the 757 at least for a while.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 43):

getting SLC-OGG back would be nice.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:47 pm

Hawaii, being a vacation destination, has a lot of group fares and generally low fares. Very poor yield. Not a lot of motivation for an airline to increase capacity when if you decrease it you can get a higher return.

Oh for the days when HNL flights were virtually all 747, DC-10 or at least "stretch" DC-8's.
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ltbewr
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:52 pm

In using 737's/321's, west coast USA/Hawaii, are there restrictions as to weight including no revenue freight ?
 
FSDan
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RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:08 pm

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 33):
Also SLC/LAX-HNL will be keeping 1x 763 as the 4 767-300s that are Pratt 4000 powered and ETOPS are young and not going anywhere.

LAX-HNL operates with the 767-300ER rather than the domestic 767-300s. The aircraft rotates with the HNL-Japan flights. I believe SLC-HNL is the only route the 767-300s fly that requires ETOPS.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 34):
They do, or did, fly them to SNA.

These days ATL-SNA is all 757. I'm pretty sure the 73Gs haven't flown out to the West Coast (regularly) for a few years.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:18 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 38):
I've never seen a 739 or been on one either with AS, but of course that doesn't mean they aren't happening. Are the 739 flights to Hawaii run as subs, or actually scheduled? I am sure the winter months they aren't even viable to OAK or SJC.
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 38):
Every AS flight to or from Hawaii has been on a 738, not one special livery & all the Chester's were sporting the lei.
Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 40):
Not during the winter. But quite a few times this past summer. I've only seen them between OAK/SJC and HNL/KOA though

I have seen the AS 739ER's scheduled for SEA-HNL, SEA-OGG and SEA-KOA; and I have seen them at the gates at SEA...but only during the summer months.
Obviously, the 739ER's do not sport the lei...and I believe all of the theme 738's are ETOPS.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: DL To Start 737 Ops To Hawaii

Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:27 am

Quoting dashdrvr (Reply 41):
I guess I don't feel too sorry for the traveling public these days. The wanted cheap air fares. That's how you do it. 181 people on a 737 to Hawaii. Did it once on a company pass. Never again. Like the days of a DC-10 on Western Airlines.
Quoting covert (Reply 36):
Ehh, it's not THAT bad. It's only 5-6 hours of your life.

I think the seat pitch on DL's 737's are closer that that of AS. I have flown AS a few times to Hawaii from SEA/PDX/SJC/SMF.
They haven't been too bad, especially with the Mai Tai at the end of the flight to Hawaii.

But if you want to guarantee a widebody, then HA is pretty much it now. That could change quite a bit when HA takes delivery
of their A321-Neos and get rid of the 767-300's.

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