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Sooner787
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:33 pm

 
justloveplanes
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:40 pm

What is the relationship between ANA and Skymark? Did they take them on as a subsidiary?
 
KL808
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:41 pm

Hawaii market is mentioned by the article above, so If true, will these be in a 2 class high density config?

So Im assuming 2 are the ex Skymark frames and the other would be a new build?
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
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Matt6461
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:42 pm

Wow. Announced just in time to stop the annual order dry spell too.

ANA must have been one of the two possible customers that JL mentioned at Dubai - these talks start and end in a few weeks. Those were supposed to have been orders for 10-12 and 20 though...
 
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MrHMSH
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:44 pm

That would be the revelation of the year, and Mr. Leahy's New Year's resolution will be sorted very early!

I will believe it when I see an oversized ANA tail in the Sky.
 
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mercure1
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:46 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 3):

Wow. Announced just in time to stop the annual order dry spell too.

Nothing formal from Airbus.
http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/

Nor anything from ANA
http://www.ana.co.jp/eng/aboutana/press/index_sm.html

So 2015 also went without any A380 orders.
mercure f-wtcc
 
jacobin777
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:47 pm

Would be kind of cool to see. I'm sure Boeing would have pitched hard for the B748i to NH as well.
"Up the Irons!"
 
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EPA001
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:50 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 5):
Nothing formal from Airbus.
Quoting mercure1 (Reply 5):
Nor anything from ANA

If confirmed this would be a good one for Airbus to start the year!  
 
justloveplanes
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:52 pm

It's real.

Here's the background...

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Deal...ast-minute-by-making-Airbus-a-deal

An outgrowth of the Skymark collapse was a fight over slots for Haneda. ANA made a better deal with the creditors than Delta. Delta was widely seen as the take over candidate, but ANA stole home at the last minute (!)
 
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Matt6461
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:52 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 5):
Nothing formal from Airbus.
http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/

Nor anything from ANA
http://www.ana.co.jp/eng/aboutana/press/index_sm.html

True, and the article states, "will order." Probably premature to assume this is sure to happen, but we have a reputable paper reporting that an order is planned so it seems likely to happen.

Twitter accounts of Airbus and ANA are silent so far as well.
 
Sooner787
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 9):
True, and the article states, "will order." Probably premature to assume this is sure to happen, but we have a reputable paper reporting that an order is planned so it seems likely to happen.

Doesn't Airbus have 3 white tail 380's right now , the 2 ex-Skymark plus one other?
 
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Matt6461
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Reply 8):
http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Deal...ast-minute-by-making-Airbus-a-deal

An outgrowth of the Skymark collapse was a fight over slots for Haneda. ANA made a better deal with the creditors than Delta. Delta was widely seen as the take over candidate, but ANA stole home at the last minute (!)

Thanks for sharing, I hadn't seen this specific story before. I wonder whether ANA will be taking Skymark's two white tails. And whether the additional frame - or all 3 - will come from Amedeo's 20.

Buying 3 A380's might be a small price for maintaining market position at Haneda... And who knows, these 3 might work well as 2-class tourist bombers to HNL. Especially if gas stays cheap.
 
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Matt6461
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:01 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 10):
the 2 ex-Skymark plus one other?

Would the "one other" be ex-TransAero? Seems likely given how late in the game that deal fell apart. Even if not a completed frame yet, they and suppliers were surely cutting a lot of metal already when TransAero went bust.
 
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Revelation
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:23 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 3):
Announced just in time to stop the annual order dry spell too.

Actually, there is no order yet as far as we know, and the article's timestamp is "January 1, 2016 2:00 am JST" so even the announcement missed by a hair if you go by local time!  
Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 4):
the revelation of the year

Ahem, I'm the expert on Revelations!  

Probably need a "Biggest News of 2015" thread now.

Think I'll start one.

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 11):
Buying 3 A380's might be a small price for maintaining market position at Haneda... And who knows, these 3 might work well as 2-class tourist bombers to HNL. Especially if gas stays cheap.

Might drive yields right down the toilet, though. How many more seats can HNL take?

As per the 2nd linked article above:

Quote:
But "[ANA} was so reluctant to let another airline get Skymark's landing slots at Haneda Airport that it was willing to take those risks," a person familiar with ANA's strategy said. Access to the Tokyo-area hub is seen as a cash cow.

So it may be taking the A380s under duress...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
777way
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:29 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
So it may be taking the A380s under duress...

Why does it bother you? some US members are seeming disturbed by this news.
 
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Miami
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:31 pm

Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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Matt6461
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:39 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
So it may be taking the A380s under duress...

It may be. Duress could be too strong a word but at least the decision might have as a necessary condition something other than the narrow business case of purchasing 3 A380's.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
Might drive yields right down the toilet, though. How many more seats can HNL take?

It might - that's seems to be the judgment of the majority of the world's airlines regarding all but a few routes. OTOH the planned stage length of ~7hrs is reputed to be the A380's sweet spot - long enough for a widebody to make sense but not so long that fuel exorbitantly dominates the cost picture. We know the A380 is a deal to purchase right now (per seat), and if ANA judges a decade of cheap fuel then the capital cost picture might make this work. A predominantly tourist/VFR demographic on NRT-HNL won't show highly frequency-sensitive yield. CASM on this route could be 10-15% better with an A380 than a 77W, so it might pencil out for ANA even with a yield hit. They probably can't get any more 777-9's until around 2025, so perhaps A380 really is the best option.

I can see valid points that these three sales should be marked with an asterisk.

But credit where due - Airbus appears to have sold (or will shortly sell) 3 A380's.

[Edited 2015-12-31 10:48:51]
 
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Revelation
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:44 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 14):
Why does it bother you?

It doesn't bother me. I just find the business machinations interesting.

Why do you think it would bother me? And why do you think my country of origin matters?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
2175301
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:46 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 16):
But credit where due - Airbus appears to have sold (or will shortly sell) 3 A380's.

True. I speculate that they also got a sweet deal as at least two of these would be the Skymark white tails - which have been partially paid for; and it would be in Airbus's interest to sell them using the prepaid offset to get them off the lot, so to speak.

So perhaps a one time deal; and a win for both companies (win-win).

Have a great day,
 
sonic67
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:48 pm

If the deal did go through what modifications would need to be made to the airport in Honolulu or Kona?
 
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RayChuang
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:16 pm

Yep, it appears that ANA got a GREAT deal from Airbus on the two Skymark A380's and the one A380 that was for Transaero. They will likely be assigned to the HND/NRT-HNL service, though the possibility of NRT-LAX using this plane may not be far-fetched (we forget there is a very large ex-pat Japanese community living in the Los Angeles area).
 
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HALtheAI
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:17 pm

Quoting sonic67 (Reply 19):
If the deal did go through what modifications would need to be made to the airport in Honolulu or Kona?

HNL is fairly ready right now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1A6fchAgfM. Maybe a jetbridge for the upper deck if they want to get fancy.
 
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KPDX
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:33 pm

Awesome! More A380/747 operators is always welcome.

Congratulations to Airbus on this order. 
 
MEA-707
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:45 pm

Really great news. This year I started to get worried the 380 would only see the current 13 operators ever flying them. A small ANA order means more for the future of the program then a top up of 30 for Emirates would.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
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KPDX
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:47 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 23):
Boeing fanboy's envy because the a380 is getting orders while the 748 project is collecting dust.

You're no better than the Boeing fanboys with these kinds of posts, nor are you a true aviation fan.
 
dc10lover
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:00 pm

No one wants the 747 anymore. Sad.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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NWAROOSTER
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:05 pm

Just wondering what kind of penalty would ANA have to pay Airbus if they do not take any of the three A380s?
Looks to me that ANA may be spending about ONE BILLION DOLLARS to just keep Delta from getting the Haneda slots. Three aircraft is a pretty small aircraft sub fleet number and would require extra expenses to just maintain and operate the aircraft. Where would be the nearest A380 parts source. How much down time would ANA experience if an aircraft is down due to necessary maintenance that could not be MELed. Surely ANA would not be able maintain a large supply of spares for these aircraft much less do any serious maintenance.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
MaverickM11
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:10 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 20):
They will likely be assigned to the HND/NRT-HNL

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just put their 500 seat 777s on HNL? The CASK would be unbeatable
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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NWAROOSTER
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 26):
No one wants the 747 anymore. Sad.

ANA might prefer the 747-8i but was boxed into a corner by Delta's interest in Skymark. Maybe Boeing would pick up any cancellation charges if ANA bought their 747-8i instead of the A380. Might be a small price for Boeing to keep their line moving.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
ap305
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:13 pm

Three seems too small in terms of operational efficiency for such a large airline. Pilots, maintenance etc for just 3 aircraft. Perhaps they may lease more?
Racing, competing, is in my blood. It's part of me, it's part of my life; I've been doing it all my life. And it stands up before anything else- Ayrton Senna
 
MaverickM11
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:17 pm

Quoting ap305 (Reply 30):

Three seems too small in terms of operational efficiency for such a large airline. Pilots, maintenance etc for just 3 aircraft. Perhaps they may lease more?


   seems suspicious, especially for such a high volume leisure route
I don't take responsibility at all
 
seansasLCY
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:18 pm

Don't forget there are the MH and TG A380s which many believe are on the market. Perhaps ANA will be like BA with the 773. Buy a couple and then add some leased examples from other sources to build up a small fleet.
 
AirbusA6
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:25 pm

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 29):

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 26):
No one wants the 747 anymore. Sad.

ANA might prefer the 747-8i but was boxed into a corner by Delta's interest in Skymark. Maybe Boeing would pick up any cancellation charges if ANA bought their 747-8i instead of the A380. Might be a small price for Boeing to keep their line moving.   

Why would they prefer a tiny fleet of 747-8is instead? It's not as if they have any current 747s, and while the A380 is a struggling programme, the 747-8i is even more of a dead duck with its almost replacement the 777-9 already launched
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
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Matt6461
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:33 pm

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 29):
ANA might prefer the 747-8i

Why even bring this up? Is this really a battle any Boeing fan would honestly fight anymore?

The A380 has outsold the 747-8i by 7/8 to 1, depending on how we're counting A380 orders. Neither plane is very good but the A380 is clearly better.
 
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Boeing778X
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:47 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 23):
Boeing fanboy's envy because the a380 is getting orders while the 748 project is collecting dust.
Quoting KPDX (Reply 25):
You're no better than the Boeing fanboys with these kinds of posts, nor are you a true aviation fan.

   Here, here.

Ban fanboyism.

Quoting 777way (Reply 14):
Why does it bother you? some US members are seeming disturbed by this news.
Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
Why do you think it would bother me? And why do you think my country of origin matters?

Really, 777way? What's relevant about a users origin?

People have been respectful to you. I suggest you return the favor   

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 20):
Yep, it appears that ANA got a GREAT deal from Airbus on the two Skymark A380's and the one A380 that was for Transaero.

Well, as someone who'd been mildly critical of the integrity of the A380 program thus far, I think this is interesting news! It'll be interesting to see NH work with the A380, as they have never operated a widebody Airbus aircraft.

Would they be based out of HND or NRT?
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
777way
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 29):

ANA might prefer the 747-8i

They didnt even show interest in any, maybe they dont even need A380 but have opted for it fo some reason, maybe political.
 
briguychau
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:22 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 35):
Would they be based out of HND or NRT?

I'd say both.

I thought HND has restrictions on the A380 and it can't operate during daylight hours. This would be perfect for HNL since HND-HNL already operates at late night. NRT has no such restrictions, so these can operate anytime.

Because of the HND restrictions, the odds of these frames operating domestically would be rather slim IMO.
 
panam330
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:32 pm

Not knowing the specifics surrounding this deal, just how many HND slots does NH stand to gain here? That might paint a clearer picture for those of us not as well versed in the goings on of the Skymark collapse.
 
BravoEchoNov
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:34 pm

I don't believe this order is real. Not a very trusted single source.
 
Armodeen
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 28):

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just put their 500 seat 777s on HNL? The CASK would be unbeatable

depends how many seats they put into the 380s :P
 
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RayChuang
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:01 pm

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 32):
Don't forget there are the MH and TG A380s which many believe are on the market. Perhaps ANA will be like BA with the 773. Buy a couple and then add some leased examples from other sources to build up a small fleet.

Bingo. I would not be surprised that if NH likes the three A388's they got, thay may ask to buy the ex-MH and ex-TG A388's for a song, especially since they could be bought for bargain prices, even more so if Airbus throws in the cost of converting the interiors to NH configuration.
 
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cougar15
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:14 pm

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 27):
Three aircraft is a pretty small aircraft sub fleet number and would require extra expenses to just maintain and operate the aircraft.

yes well, but then.. after the first 3, who are we to guess if ANA may actually like them and order a bunch more......! Food for thought & happy new year!
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:15 pm

If NH get some A380s, I really hope they'll have one like this:

http://jetabout.webs.com/eaa/anasp.htm
 
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Boeing778X
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:18 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 43):
If NH get some A380s, I really hope they'll have one like this:

Living up to what it really is    Love it!

But, I won't lie, NH's normal livery looks good on just about anything   

United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
SpaceshipDC10
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:26 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 43):
Living up to what it really is Love it!

Yep.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 43):
But, I won't lie, NH's normal livery looks good on just about anything

Indeed, it's a classic, thus pretty much fits anything. Love the two blue lines pointing forward as well as that deep blue they use.
 
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Matt6461
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:29 pm

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 27):
Looks to me that ANA may be spending about ONE BILLION DOLLARS to just keep Delta from getting the Haneda slots.

First of all, the A380, like all planes, costs much less than list price. A standard discount, per Leeham, is 55% - which gives an Airbus price of $235mil before buyer furnished equipment.

EK just sold (and leased back) a new A380 for $275mil (price likely includes buyer-furnished equipment beyond price paid to Airbus). http://www.flugrevue.de/zivilluftfah...chlass-auf-a380-listenpreis/660052

If, as seems likely, ANA has taken up white tails in this deal, then the price will probably be even lower.

The fact is that the A380 is cheap per seat - basic supply and demand. Buying equivalent capacity in end-of-the-line 77W's or A330ceo's would likely have cost more.

The question is then whether ANA will make less profit off buying and depolying these 3 A380's than it would have off of, for example, 6-7 A330ceo's.
That's probably a close call, as I outlined above. The A380 has unit cost efficiencies over frames with 2018 availability (i.e. A330ceo and 77W - or used older models), but is likely to cause yield dilution.
But if the A380 works on any routes, Tokyo-HNL should be one of them. 2mil people traveled the route last year, or about 3,500 one-way seats daily in each direction. It's a mostly leisure route with high-income travelers who may pay a slight premium for the A380's more generous Y seating.
ANA can probably add A380's to this route without materially disrupting frequency - taking market share via greater comfort and/or lower prices while saving money on unit cost. I'd bet this will work just fine for them.
 
777way
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:52 pm

I hate that red nail polish Airbus planes wear, if its such a saftey issue that the paint is needed why dont Boeing and others have that too? or is it another marketing tool from Airbus oh look how concenerned we are about ground sagety, about which our rivals dont care.
 
StTim
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ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:00 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 46):
is it another marketing tool from Airbus oh look how concenerned we are about ground sagety, about which our rivals dont care.

I find that statement very hard to understand.
 
CplKlinger
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:05 pm

ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:01 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 46):
I hate that red nail polish Airbus planes wear, if its such a saftey issue that the paint is needed why dont Boeing and others have that too? or is it another marketing tool from Airbus oh look how concenerned we are about ground sagety, about which our rivals dont care.

Just what are you on about?
 
briguychau
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:47 pm

ANA To Buy Airbus A380 Jumbo Jets, Boost Hawaii?

Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:51 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 46):

I hate that red nail polish Airbus planes wear, if its such a saftey issue that the paint is needed why dont Boeing and others have that too? or is it another marketing tool from Airbus oh look how concenerned we are about ground sagety, about which our rivals dont care.

Not all Airbus have it, and also, some Boeing do have it too. It seems to be airline or country specific.
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