|Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 2):|
I don't think they will get 40% unless they take the last TA completely, but its openers.....thats the point. Both ask for a wish list then the real agreement will be lower than said wish list for both sides.
It's not an opener, it's a re-opener. Meaning that only those sections that are deemed unsatisfactory are being re-opened since there has already been an tentative agreement.
|Quoting PGNCS (Reply 3):|
Yeah, exactly. It's an opener and both sides are expected to be far apart. What either side asks for and what they end up with on ratification are two completely different things.
Again, it's not an opener.
|Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):|
Depends on what ALPA is willing to give up? I'm sure DL would love for larger RJs, say a 100k lb weight limit instead of the current 86k. Perhaps with a maximum of 92 seats? Asking for 40% will not will in the court of public opinion, but DL could make a counter accepting, for the right counter conditions...
Regionals can't even fill the pilot openings they have now...what makes you think they could fly additional routes?
|Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):|
If ALPA strikes, it only helps the competition.
Not really, most pilot contracts prohibit their company from adding additional flights to fly routes that are flown by other pilots currently on strike. Why do you think Delta doesn't add routes to CDG/AMS whenever their pilots go on strike? Plus, Delta doesn't like bad PR...they won't let it get to that point.
|Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 6):|
They deserve it. DL is turning unbelievable profits. Hope they get everything they want plus more. They deserve it!!
Yes, absolutely. It's time that people other than the fat cats at the top get a little dough.
|Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 7):|
So what about the other employees... I dont think they deserve it at a tune of 40%. That's huge and for the company to tdke them srtiously, ALPA would have to give up a lot.
Why should ALPA care about the other employees? They're the ones stupid enough to vote down a union. They have to worry about their members and their members only. If the other employees want more then they should get a union...otherwise go get a bag of popcorn from Delta and be happy.
|Quoting tu154m (Reply 11):|
Really? Most employees lost their pensions, took HUGE pay cuts, and have lost the same benefits. The difference is, most employees make a whole lot less than the pilot group-even with the latest round of raises. Nobody has a pension. Fact is, this one group of employees has been coddled, spoon fed, and babied like no other group of employees in commercial aviation. I'm sorry, but even at starting wages, these guys make more than most-if they cannot live on these salaries, benefits, and all the perks that go along with it, maybe Delta should offer free financial counseling classes and therapy!!!! I understand it takes a lot of time, money, and education to get to their places as commercial airline pilots, but nobody held a gun to their head forcing them to get into this career field. It gets really old hearing the outlandish demands and seeing all of the concessions. Most of you do not realize that the pilots profit sharing is more than most ACS, GSE, and Aircraft Mechanics yearly salary. When is enough, enough??? It's always ME, ME, ME. No team work or family at all.
Again, Delta pilots are the only ones that have any leverage with Delta. They don't even have to go on strike to cause chaos. You can taxi and fly slower, not accept deferred mx writeups...you name it. They should get as much as they can...I know I would.
|Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 15):|
You cannot deny they are the most important work group at any airline. Every Team has their superstars, and pilots are it.
|Quoting mayor (Reply 16):|
Really doubt if you could operate an airline without MOST of the work groups there are, now.
True, but the other employees chose to let management determine how much they would get when they voted down unionization so they have no ground to stand on. Take it or there's the door bubba.
|Quoting scbriml (Reply 20):|
Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 10):
Many lost pensions in bankruptcy and agreed to 50% pay cuts to save their company.
And no other DL employees did?
Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 15):
You cannot deny they are the most important work group at any airline.
No, they're just employees like the cabin crew, dispatchers and all the back-room staff. The pilots are going nowhere without all those other folks.
I really don't understand the god-like view that some have of pilots.
Again, the cabin crew and other departments at Delta made the choice (stupid in my opinion) to not have a union and let management choose how much they're worth. No room to cry because the pilots aren't that dumb to allow a management group to make all the decisions for them.
|Quoting par13del (Reply 22):|
Reality is that this group is unionized, stick together and stand their ground, the idea that management and shareholders coddle, spoon feed and baby them is not even similar to having a perspective of glass half full or glass half empty.
Management would put the same rules and conditions and pay scales on the pilots group if they could, reality is that they cannot because of the actions of the group.
|Quoting diverdave (Reply 23):|
Yet without the FAs, all of those superstar pilots would be flying empty planes.
And the FAs chose to not have a union. So the pilots have a say, and the FAs get a bag of popcorn every Monday. Welcome aboard!
|Quoting bobnwa (Reply 27):|
ALPA is not likely to give up a single penny to the other employee groups who they couldn't care less about. Asking for a 40% raise when they are already in the 95th percentile of all US wage earners is a bit excessive.
It's not a raise until their previous wages adjusted for inflation are reached. They gave up billions to keep Delta afloat...they should try and get that money back now that Delta is making billions.
|Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 39):|
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 36):
So tiresome but predictable: just like Allegiant, DL will be cast as an unfair employer who works its hero pilots to death and makes their lives so hard while flying dangerous old equipment, all the time paying them more annually than 95 percent of the workers in the US (and in the one-percent of hourly compensation).
I don't see that being allowed to happen. I don't think Delta's top brass would dare invite that kind of PR, and as such I think some sort of common ground will be reached before things unravel to that extent.
I'd love to see the rat at the ATL airport. But that's just me.
|Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 40):|
Same reason actuaries get paid massive salaries. Very hard to get new ones.
Kind of hard for any other DL workers to threaten a strike since they don't belong to unions. The pilots do, and they are taking advantage of that leverage. The supply of new pilots is very constrained. DL pilots know that. They aren't going to get 40%, but they know that a strike would hurt DL profits badly.
Exactly! Can't complain if you gave up your right to negotiate your wages and benefits.
|Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 41):|
ALPA wont strike. Government wont let them. NMB has already made it clear, when the 9E pilots tried to strike, strikes are done at UA/AA/DL and WN. They are simply to big to fail now.
Pilots don't need to strike to cause chaos at Delta. There's many things they can do to bring the operation to it's knees.
|Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 41):|
Quoting global1 (Reply 8):
Whatever increases in per-diem, the f/a's would expect a match, etc... It costs us just as much to eat.
How exactly is that DALPAs problem? you want higher per-diem and want it like the pilots, vote in a union and negotiate for it. If you don't want a union then you are at will and shouldn't expect the pilots to care about how much money you make.
|Quoting loggat (Reply 43):|
You may notice that the pilots are the only work group that haven't exceeded their highest pre bankruptcy salary levels.
Just as an example, the Flight Attendants are currently about 21% higher than their highest pre-BK salary (including the 14.5% raise received on Dec 1st).
You conveniently left out the fact that Flight Attendants today are much more productive then before bankruptcy. According to the same study you posted, Flight Attendants fly on average about 20% more then they did before bankruptcy. Pilots fly about 10% less. But nice try...
|Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 52):|
If ALPA struck against DL, AS would be doing the happy dance and it could be the end of the DL's Pacific hub.
It won't get to that point. Delta will meet most of ALPAs demands...just watch.