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lesfalls
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LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:56 am

It has said to be that Since the Gulf carriers have become a problem the major airlines of Europe's continue to lower their standards of quality aboard including food and service. Is this true? If it is then have people began starting these European carriers?Will the Carriers rise their levels of Quality again if they notice they get less passengers or will they get worse?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
IPFreely
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:05 am

It has been said, huh? Who said it, and when? Was it Richard Anderson?
 
Prost
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:07 am

I believe a lot of American's have wondered if the service standards would be affected. Please note, I'm not wishing for poorer service on the Euro carriers, and I'm not in a position to even state whether they have been lowered.

The indisputable facts are the the ME3 have exemplary service with low costs. Customers who's destinations can be logically served, or who have the time to make an out of the way connection on the ME3 will be well served by them. The time sensitive business travelers, and those who's destination would be far longer on the ME3 will continue to take the Euro carriers. The problem as I see it is with higher costs, and loss of pricing power on significant portions of their routes, the Euro carriers will feel the pressure.

I'm mindful that the Euro carriers are well aware of the US airlines and the restructuring that needed to occur. I believe that the managements are well aware of what needs to occur to restructure, but the work forces are resistant to this change. I'm not taking sides here, as I've been in their position as an FA who had to deal with multiple restructurings.

I'm sure the last thing the Euro carriers want to do is cut their service levels severely, which will only make the ME3 that much more attractive. But there are structural issues that will competing very difficult in the near future for them.

I wish nothing but the best for all involved.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:20 am

"Service" hasn't changed; you can still get all the amenities you want, on essentially any mainstream carrier, if you do but one simple thing---- pay for it.

That's what's changed. Airlines are simply giving customers what they show they want, via their spend choices.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:27 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 3):
That's what's changed. Airlines are simply giving customers what they show they want, via their spend choices.

That's too simplistic. It's true that Asian airlines (I'm not familiar enough with the Gulf carriers) really make you feel valued, and I don't really feel that with LH LX BA AF.
 
eielef
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:29 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 3):
pay for it.

People is not really happy with paying for it... No one.
I received an email from LH telling me that you are now welcomed to pay 25EUR for each piece of luggage. They offered it as if you was willing before. I mean, why don't they use a better marketing idea: if you don't have any luggage, we give you 25EUR as a check for your next flight... I hated it, and stopped booking LH starting that day.... Back to my beloved Skyteam members...

I don't see prices of tickets really getting lower each year, all the other way. They are more expensive, and they offer you every day less confort, more hidden fees, and worse service all in all.
What can the airline industry be happy or proud of their results since the end of the crisis of 2009?
How much has improved any european airline, or even an american airline in the last 5 years? We could point amazingly high safety records (i don't record any mayor incident by either an american or a european major airline since AF447). More passengers (ATL reached its 100th million pax). Higher LF. The A350, B787, and few more new planes. But the rest, as a passenger, i see more and more of the same...
Flying is less desirable than ever before, both in intercontinental as in intracontinental (i haven't flown lots of domestic US flights, so I can't give an opinion on that).
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:35 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 4):
That's too simplistic.

Because it's a rather simple concept: you get what you pay for. Few things are more basic.



Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 4):
and I don't really feel that with LH LX BA AF.

Perhaps not, but that doesn't actually change what I just said-- at all.



Quoting eielef (Reply 5):
People is not really happy with paying for it... No one.

...so? Tough tits for them, that's the direction the industry is clearly going.
It's only going to take the next downturn to usher along the laggards.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
lancelot07
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:26 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 6):
Because it's a rather simple concept: you get what you pay for. Few things are more basic.

  
And then, quality is a matter of definition.
For me, it is very straightforward: I want to be transported from A to B safely, fast, on time, at a convenient time, and in a reasonable seat (regarding pitch). I understand that handling of checked baggage costs something, and I don't care much about "feeling valued".
 
Bam1702
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:33 am

I live in Geneva and I fly three or four times a month mostly on LX but also on BA, LH and OS. Nearly all my flights are to European destinations but sometimes to the US. I use LX's excellent Lite Fares extensively which allows inexpensive upgrades to Business with no checked baggage.

Up until three years ago, I lived in a couple of cities in the Middle East and I used to fly EK, QR, GF and sometimes FZ mostly to ME destinations but also occasionally to the US and Europe.

Frankly, it beats me why people have such a high opinion of ME carriers. For the most part, I was fairly unimpressed with EK and QR. Plus, Bahrain, Doha, Abu Dhabi and Muscat all had terrible airports (I have not seen the new DOH terminal) while I found DXB to be frustrating especially when dealing with Customs and Immigration. Long, long wait times for baggage were normal especially in T1. GF was terrible and after two round-trips, I avoided them entirely.

My recent experiences (specifically with) LX been terrific and I have had no issues at T2 at LHR. Last year, I took BA GVA/IAD/GVA a couple of times and I found them to be more than adequate and very well priced - surprisingly, less than UA and I had no issues transiting T5 at LHR. My home airport (GVA) is small and really easy to navigate and Customs and Immigration is quick and professional.

I take LH to FRA and MUC a couple of times per year and as with LX and BA, I have found the price, the service and the overall experience to be more than acceptable. I took UA GVA/IAD/GVA just once last year and the price and service were very acceptable but that's another story.

So in my experience, specifically with the European carriers I mentioned, I haven't noticed a lowering of standards and in fact I think the opposite is true.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:43 am

Can't speak for the others, but BA have been steadily offering more food on European routes over the past year or two. The low point was about 5 years ago.
 
Bam1702
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:07 am

I mentioned I use LX's Lite Fares (just carry-on) and I pay to upgrade to Business - sometimes as low as Swiss Francs 29 for a GVA/LHR leg. The most I paid last year was CHF58 per upgrade leg but even with the paid upgrade, most of my flights have been around CHF220 r/t including to DUB, OPO, MAD, ATH, PRG and other cities.

I check before I book and as far as I can tell, while riding in Business I am paying less than most than those in economy who check bags. With the Swiss Franc currently on par with the US$, it makes for pretty cheap flying on a very good airline. In 2014, I used to average around $250 per flight in Economy but ever since LX introduced their European Lite Fares, I now pay around $220 in Business.

I had just one flight (OPO/GVA) that was late (just over an hour) and I find the service to be excellent. As are and the food and beverages - you can have Champagne if you want. The Chef de Cabin normally provides the service and after the meal they hand out SWISS chocolate.

So when comparing my regional ME flying experiences of three years ago to my recent European flying experiences, I find that the European experience to be considerably better.

Full disclosure; I have never worked in the airline business but I do fly quite a lot.
 
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PatrickZ80
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:07 am

Of course the service level is lower, they have to since cheap competition is getting the better of them with this concept. LCC's like FR, U2, DY and W6 are gaining market share at the cost of the regular carriers like LH, AF and BA. So in response the regular carriers adapt some of the things that make the LCC's succesful like paying for luggage and food on board.

I've flown a lot of LCC's myself and they offer exactly what I need at a reasonable price. I could have flown regular carriers instead, they offer a higher service level but are also more expensive. But do I need that higher service level? No, I don't but I do have to pay for it if I fly a regular carrier. So I save a few bucks by not paying for everything I don't need.

[Edited 2016-01-01 02:10:47]
 
by738
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:55 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9):

They have? what, like wirhdrawing hot food in Y on some flights to Moscow?
 
ahmetdouas
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:58 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9):

absolutely. on my regular (3-4 returns yearly) flights LHR-ATH, BA give a nice breakfast (eggs sausage etc), and for the evening flights, they almost always end up giving a Chicken Curry/Tikka! Delicious! After TK, I would say BA has my favorite catering on European Airlines.

Try flying Aegean! Absolute disgrace! And Greeks have good food if they actually try. They give you a cheese sandwich for a 4 hour flight in the morning. At least with Ryanair you can pay 5 Euros and get a lasagne which actually isnt that bad!

So for my next Aegean flight, I have decided to order the kosher meal. Lets see if I get something better than a cheese sandwich on my ATH-LGW flight with Aegean. Was cheap at least to book, 70 Euros one way. As I said, Ryanair's presence in ATH has helped things a lot for the passenger! A few years back I was paying 150 Euros one way for the same dates!
 
LSZH34
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:16 am

Quoting Bam1702 (Reply 8):
Frankly, it beats me why people have such a high opinion of ME carriers

Don't get it either. Especially in Y they are pretty much on par if not worse. There are many many advantes the ME3 have over european carriers but some people ignore that completely. I will never fly one of the ME3 for several reasons.
 
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seahawk
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:33 am

BA has improved imho. LH and AF are as bad as they ever were.
 
Lofty
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:34 pm

Why do we think the ME3 are so good, I have family who will no longer use EK due the their bad experiences on a number of flights. The service was bad and the staff in DXB need training on how to deliver customer service. They now use BA and are much happier with the service given.
 
DAL763ER
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:11 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 5):
I don't see prices of tickets really getting lower each year, all the other way. They are more expensive, and they offer you every day less confort, more hidden fees, and worse service all in all.
What can the airline industry be happy or proud of their results since the end of the crisis of 2009?
How much has improved any european airline, or even an american airline in the last 5 years? We could point amazingly high safety records (i don't record any mayor incident by either an american or a european major airline since AF447). More passengers (ATL reached its 100th million pax). Higher LF. The A350, B787, and few more new planes. But the rest, as a passenger, i see more and more of the same...
Flying is less desirable than ever before, both in intercontinental as in intracontinental (i haven't flown lots of domestic US flights, so I can't give an opinion on that).

Fares should decrease? I can't remember a time in the past 4-5 months when BA hasn't had a sale. You can get seats from LHR to the US for £300-£1000. Fares are really low right now and people shouldn't really complain. If you want a better meal, eat at the airport. Or upgrade to the next cabin. If you want a better seat, pay to upgrade. Simple. In Y, all that one should ask for is safe, on time travel. And that's exactly what Western carriers provide. Flying's as safe and inexpensive as it's ever been. That's what matters, not the extra glass of Dom in your "Residence".
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:36 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 12):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 9):

They have? what, like wirhdrawing hot food in Y on some flights to Moscow?

Moscow is in Zone 4 for BA catering, thats a hot meal offered on all flights after 10am.
 
b747400erf
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:03 pm

EK is expanding too much too fast, service is not keeping up, and their low pricing strategies are long gone. Same with all of the ME3. There is no reason to fly the ME3 any more.
 
ahmetdouas
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:04 pm

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 17):

ATH-LAX return via LHR with BA cost me 650 EUR.
 
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PatrickZ80
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:12 pm

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 17):
You can get seats from LHR to the US for £300-£1000.

That's actually pretty expensive given that you can fly DY LGW-JFK for £149 one way. In addition to this, BA has to do something otherwise they lose all their passengers to DY.
 
ckfred
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:28 pm

I guess the question is how long can the ME3 keep their costs so low, that they can offer high levels of service at reasonable prices.

I read an article recently about how China is losing its cost advantage for manufacturing, because of increasing wages. A textile plant that had only opened about 12 years ago was being closed, because wages in Vietnam, Indonesia, and Malaysia are cheaper.

I remember when stores in the U.S. sold clothes, toys, and small electronic goods came from Japan and Taiwan. Now virtually nothing in those categories come come from Japan and Taiwan, because labor costs are too high.

At some point, labor costs will increase for the ME3. Southwest used to have a significant labor cost advantage over the U.S. legacy carriers. Now, that advantage is much smaller.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:29 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 2):
I'm sure the last thing the Euro carriers want to do is cut their service levels severely, which will only make the ME3 that much more attractive.

Spoilers! People don't pay for service.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 4):
That's too simplistic. It's true that Asian airlines (I'm not familiar enough with the Gulf carriers) really make you feel valued, and I don't really feel that with LH LX BA AF.

No airline in history (at least since deregulation) has panicked about a competitor's service being too good.

Quoting eielef (Reply 5):

People is not really happy with paying for it... No one.

If people paid for service as much as they whine about it, every airline would be SQ

Quoting ahmetdouas (Reply 13):
Try flying Aegean! Absolute disgrace!

Aegean is one of the most profitable airlines in the world

Quoting Lofty (Reply 16):
Why do we think the ME3 are so good, I have family who will no longer use EK due the their bad experiences on a number of flights.

Maybe people love the 7 across angled J? The 10 across Y? The abysmal on time rate?

Quoting ahmetdouas (Reply 20):
ATH-LAX return via LHR with BA cost me 650 EUR.

You can fly CAIBKK roundtrip in J on EY for less than $1000 roundtrip all in. Service! Service! Service! 
Quoting PatrickZ80 (Reply 21):
That's actually pretty expensive given that you can fly DY LGW-JFK for £149 one way. In addition to this, BA has to do something otherwise they lose all their passengers to DY.

DY is a bit of an outlier, but airlines are starting to match ULCCs, minus the remaining "frills" that they can take away. DY is running 90+% LF though--must be their fabulous service 
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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PatrickZ80
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:35 pm

Quoting ahmetdouas (Reply 20):
ATH-LAX return via LHR with BA cost me 650 EUR.

They wouldn't offer it that cheap if they wouldn't have cheap competition. ATH-LAX one way with DY starts at € 196,70 (via OSL). DY doesn't offer a return flight, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. You can fly DY LAX-LGW for € 207,50 and then connect to U2 LGW-ATH for € 70,67 making a total of € 278,17. Total return price would be € 474,87.
 
ahmetdouas
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:36 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):

Yes but with Ryanair Aegean will start losing out. They have had to lower their fares considerably so profitability will be affected. Prob will still end up making money though,
they cannot make the food any worse. In fact I would rather they make me pay for food and offer me something better instead of forcing me to have a cheese pie for a 4 hour flight with no alternative!
 
Speedbird2155
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:41 pm

Quoting PatrickZ80 (Reply 21):
That's actually pretty expensive given that you can fly DY LGW-JFK for £149 one way. In addition to this, BA has to do something otherwise they lose all their passengers to DY.

Looking at BA and DY to New York 18 Feb to 24 Feb Lowest fare available:

BA £361.55 includes checked bag & meals plus 2 pieces of hand luggage
DY £331.40 only includes 1x10kg hand luggage. For checked bag and meals it's an additional £50 each way so would be £431.40.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:42 pm

Quoting ahmetdouas (Reply 25):
Yes but with Ryanair Aegean will start losing out. They have had to lower their fares considerably so profitability will be affected

Well A3 will just have to step up their product to the fabulous levels of Ryanair 
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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PatrickZ80
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:49 pm

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 26):
For checked bag and meals it's an additional £50 each way so would be £431.40.

That is, if you need checked bags and meals. If you don't need them, DY is still cheaper.

I've flown DY myself ARN-BKK. Had a good meal at ARN before departure for less than € 10 and some sandwiches in my hand luggage along with everything I needed for a week in Thailand. Back home I flew DY BKK-OSL and did practically the same. Some sandwiches in my hand luggage and a good meal in OSL for less than € 10. No checked bags, just hand luggage.
 
willd
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:39 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 18):

Moscow is in Zone 4 for BA catering, thats a hot meal offered on all flights after 10am.

Thats not right. DME is not considered part of the short haul offering by BA, its considered long haul. Up until recently you could for example fly First to DME. As a result you book a seat in Y its in World Traveller rather than Euro Traveller.

There is a long thread over on FT about the catering. DME was "downgraded" to being operated by the A321. As part of that downgrade, the A321, apparently, doesn't have enough oven space to be able to serve a hot meal to WT passengers. BA have, since April, been only serving sandwiches in Y.
 
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:42 pm

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 26):
Looking at BA and DY to New York 18 Feb to 24 Feb Lowest fare available:

BA £361.55 includes checked bag & meals plus 2 pieces of hand luggage
DY £331.40 only includes 1x10kg hand luggage. For checked bag and meals it's an additional £50 each way so would be £431.40.

To be fair, though, you'd need average fares - not for specific dates. Alas, we do not have this information, at least in an accurate way, for LON-NYC.
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 pm

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 14):

Quoting Bam1702 (Reply 8):
Frankly, it beats me why people have such a high opinion of ME carriers

Don't get it either. Especially in Y they are pretty much on par if not worse.

I have been flying with Etihad between Brussels and Manila (mostly via Hong Kong) for the last 10 or so years, with the occasional alternative of BA, Qatar, KLM. I find that EY is of a very consistent (and high) quality, and offers me a reliable level of comfort and service that I don't find with the European competitors.

BA I love for its essential Britishness - step on board a BA plane in any city of the USA after a 3 or 4 weeks stay there, it just feels like "coming home" and the service is spot on at that moment! The "pasta or chicken" on KLM is so off-putting, I avoid AF/KLM as much as I can! Lufti is too German!

And just to complete the view, I choose Etihad to HKG because the flights are all on A330s, the AUH to MNL direct is both much more expensive, and on B777. Unless I get an upgrade (which has happened twice), then I suffer in Y from noise and cramped conditions
 
Planesmart
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:50 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):
Maybe people love the 7 across angled J? The 10 across Y? The abysmal on time rate?

Agree on the 777 - not on the A380. Hopefully 777W will be configured consistently with the A380, and as reliable.
 
MPadhi
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:01 pm

Quoting Lofty (Reply 16):
Why do we think the ME3 are so good
Quoting Bam1702 (Reply 8):
Frankly, it beats me why people have such a high opinion of ME carriers.

I've only tried EY out of the ME3 and I thought they were fantastic for the following reasons, in order of importance:
- Amazing IFE. Good movies help me forget any cramped seating or other issues.
- Pain free connections.
- Cheap fare. I personally am willing to pay a small % of the fare more in order to fly on an airline I like/avoid one I hate.
- Good food (return journey's food was a bit naff though)
- Good website that's reliable - I want to select my favoured seat.

In addition to those, there were some minor points that differentiated them from BA: EY gave a much nicer blanket, the headphones were better, and they gave you an amenities kit, which I always think is a nice addition.

Quoting Bam1702 (Reply 8):
For the most part, I was fairly unimpressed with EK and QR. Plus, Bahrain, Doha, Abu Dhabi and Muscat all had terrible airports

Could you expand on why you dislike AUH? I found it to be really good, maybe 15 mins waiting in a line to get through security and that was it.
 
rutankrd
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:02 pm

Quoting ahmetdouas (Reply 20):
ATH-LAX return via LHR with BA cost me 650 EUR.

And your ATH_LHR sector is a massive loss maker as a result.

BA couldn't offer you the ATH_LHR fare at the sector rate they will be booking !

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 30):

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 26):
Looking at BA and DY to New York 18 Feb to 24 Feb Lowest fare available:

BA £361.55 includes checked bag & meals plus 2 pieces of hand luggage
DY £331.40 only includes 1x10kg hand luggage. For checked bag and meals it's an additional £50 each way so would be £431.40.

To be fair, though, you'd need average fares - not for specific dates. Alas, we do not have this information, at least in an accurate way, for LON-NYC.

BA have offered stupid fares from SE Europe to the US via Heathrow for years .
It fills the back of the bus so to speak.

They would rather dump outside the UK than reduce fares from Heathrow to the UK market and the resultant fall in yield potential.

Other Hub and Spoke carriers do the same via consolidators from the UK.

Both KLM and Lufthansa group carriers frequently offer Spanish and Portuguese fares from the UK via their Hub and Spoke compatible with flexible fares carriers (Won't ever use the LCC term because its not true) even with the huge travel time penalties !
 
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lesfalls
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 5:09 pm

Quoting ahmetdouas (Reply 20):

DY is the one making the flights so cheap. In August BA,DL,UA and AA announced a fare war (I can't find the article unfortunately). Since then tickets on DY have been even cheaper then what they should have been. Still it looks like DY is not affected.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:19 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 3):
"Service" hasn't changed; you can still get all the amenities you want, on essentially any mainstream carrier, if you do but one simple thing---- pay for it.

Right, those same "simple" carriers who gladly collect a "fuel surcharge" with fuel far cheaper than when such charges were instituted.
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:27 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 34):
BA have offered stupid fares from SE Europe to the US via Heathrow for years .
It fills the back of the bus so to speak.

They would rather dump outside the UK than reduce fares from Heathrow to the UK market and the resultant fall in yield potential.

Yep, network airlines have always tended to price higher, and often much higher, for local traffic, with OSL-LHR-JFK-LHR-OSL, for example, often 50% cheaper on BA than LHR-JFK-LHR. And, before anyone says, obviously OSL isn't in S.E. Europe.
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LSZH34
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:45 pm

Quoting sassiciai (Reply 31):
BA I love for its essential Britishness - step on board a BA plane in any city of the USA after a 3 or 4 weeks stay there, it just feels like "coming home" and the service is spot on at that moment!

So true! When I board an LX aircraft abroad, it feels like "coming home" when you step on the aircraft and hear your language again. Perks of flying with a national carrier.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:52 pm

Quoting Planesmart (Reply 32):
Hopefully 777W will be configured consistently with the A380, and as reliable.

Huh?


Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
Right, those same "simple" carriers who gladly collect a "fuel surcharge" with fuel far cheaper than when such charges were instituted.

What does that have to do with amenities offered (which was the context of the statement you're responding to)?

But that tangent aside: do realize that charges aren't based on cost alone, but typically on what the market (both sales and politically) will bear.
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:52 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 19):
EK is expanding too much too fast, service is not keeping up, and their low pricing strategies are long gone. Same with all of the ME3. There is no reason to fly the ME3 any more.

You cannot recruit and train 400+ flight attendants every month and not see service glitches. EK said they would hire a total of over 11,000 people this year just for growth. Having flown for 38 years I have been on a 747 entirely crewed by new hires making their first flight and it was total bedlam.

This will come back to them in the end.
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LHRFlyer
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:55 pm

FWIW, I had one of the best meals in BA Club World than I can ever remember a few weeks ago. BA catering has definitely improved over the past year.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:00 pm

Quoting PatrickZ80 (Reply 21):
That's actually pretty expensive given that you can fly DY LGW-JFK for £149 one way. In addition to this, BA has to do something otherwise they lose all their passengers to DY.
Quoting willd (Reply 29):
There is a long thread over on FT about the catering. DME was "downgraded" to being operated by the A321. As part of that downgrade, the A321, apparently, doesn't have enough oven space to be able to serve a hot meal to WT passengers. BA have, since April, been only serving sandwiches in Y.

Mid haul A321's would have enough oven space, this probably refers to a day when due to a breakdown a shorthaul example was substituted.
 
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Revelation
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:38 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 39):
What does that have to do with amenities offered (which was the context of the statement you're responding to)?

But that tangent aside: do realize that charges aren't based on cost alone, but typically on what the market (both sales and politically) will bear.

Relevance: they aren't "simple" as you stated, and indeed are quite savvy about charging what the market will bear.
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:14 pm

Just did a SFO - LHR r/t on BA and thought the service was great. The 744 going to LHR was clapped out (some will be refit but for some reason, they are putting the refitted ones on routes like LOS which seems strange) but the 380 coming back was fab.

Crews on both segments were great. The food in Prem Econ wasn't bad but not amazing either but there was plenty of it and the crew were very attentive.

It's the U.S. based carriers which have to step up their service. AA is working hard on it and DL isn't bad. UA is spotty and charging for stuff on international flights isn't smart if the competition doesn't (drinks on board for example).
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:06 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 3):
"Service" hasn't changed; you can still get all the amenities you want, on essentially any mainstream carrier, if you do but one simple thing---- pay for it.

OK, I'll bite: Show me the way to pay for a 19" Y seat on LX 77W.
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:17 pm

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 18):
Moscow is in Zone 4 for BA catering, thats a hot meal offered on all flights after 10am.

Could you offer an example of the zone offering BA have, would really be interested. TIA
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Speedbird2155
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:31 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 30):
To be fair, though, you'd need average fares - not for specific dates. Alas, we do not have this information, at least in an accurate way, for LON-NYC.

No one mentioned average fare...the comment was that you could fly LGW to JFK for as low as £149. A comparative look at DY and BA on what is considered off peak shows that BA is competitive on fare and actually cheaper for that given day. Customers won't care about average fare, they will look at what they are being asked to pay for the day they want to travel.

Quoting PatrickZ80 (Reply 28):
That is, if you need checked bags and meals. If you don't need them, DY is still cheaper.

I've flown DY myself ARN-BKK. Had a good meal at ARN before departure for less than € 10 and some sandwiches in my hand luggage along with everything I needed for a week in Thailand. Back home I flew DY BKK-OSL and did practically the same. Some sandwiches in my hand luggage and a good meal in OSL for less than € 10. No checked bags, just hand luggage.

While that may apply to you, most people on long haul flights to what is essentially holiday destinations will have checked luggage. In the case of NYC, many of the British going there will be looking to shop and with a 1x10kg hand baggage allowance, the basic DY fare wouldn't work.
 
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enzo011
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:40 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 19):
EK is expanding too much too fast, service is not keeping up, and their low pricing strategies are long gone. Same with all of the ME3. There is no reason to fly the ME3 any more.

Low pricing is gone? Being able to fly in December from DUB to JHB for tickets booked at the end of November for less than 700 EUR when other alternatives are way over 1000 EUR suggests that you will still find value out there on EK. If their flights are booked out you will pay more, if they have availability you will find value. Same concept as everyone else, they have the advantage of a lower starting point though due to a lower cost structure.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 6):
Because it's a rather simple concept: you get what you pay for. Few things are more basic.

I am confused by this. If you get what you pay for, do you get "more" service on a ticket that is more expensive than someone else paid for in Y? It could be argued that you get more flexibility with a more expensive ticket. But then you have different prices even within the same booking classes, so could you expect more if you have paid more for a ticket that someone else paid less for, when both have the same restrictions?
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: LH,LX,AF And BA Lowering Standard Of Quality?

Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:08 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 46):

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 18):
Moscow is in Zone 4 for BA catering, thats a hot meal offered on all flights after 10am.

Could you offer an example of the zone offering BA have, would really be interested. TIA
Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 46):

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 18):
Moscow is in Zone 4 for BA catering, thats a hot meal offered on all flights after 10am.

Could you offer an example of the zone offering BA have, would really be interested. TIA
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