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Miami
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China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:55 am

Per airlineroute:

Quote:
China Southern has applied for permission with CAAC, for 7 weekly Guangzhou - Toronto service from July 2016, with 777-300ER
www.twitter.com/airlineroute/status/683839335515303936



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Ytraveller
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RE:

Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:51 am

Someone said on some other thread that Chinese airlines apply to the CAAC for a bunch of routes, but never end up operating them. Discouraging if true. Is it true?
 
EddieDude
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:06 am

I think this will come to fruition. Whether CZ will be profitable remains to be seen, but congrats to YYZ and to CZ!
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ek241yyz
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:24 am

Can't wait to see them here. I hope, as a spotter, for a mix of 77W and 787.
Travel often; getting lost will help you find yourself.
 
Flightsimboy
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:01 am

Hainan - Toronto to Beijing
China Eastern - Toronto to Shanghai
China Southern - Toronto to Guangzhou (at least an amazing colour scheme on the 7773ER)

Spotting just got better.....not forgetting Brussels Airlines this summer too  

Wish Air China had come to Toronto instead.

Any chance of China Airlines coming here too?
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:10 am

Hainan PEK-YYC
Air China PVG-YUL
And now ..
China Southern CAN-YYZ.

Let's see if all these routes materialize at the announced start dates. I highly doubt that.

I give better odds to CZ at YYZ than the other two.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:10 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 5):
Hainan PEK-YYC
Air China PVG-YUL
And now ..
China Southern CAN-YYZ.

Let's see if all these routes materialize at the announced start dates. I highly doubt that.

I give better odds to CZ at YYZ than the other two.

HU and CA are actually pretty consistent about following through with their route applications, as opposed to other carriers (e.g. TK and QR). CA (and to a lesser extent, HU) is also keen on developing its secondary long-haul base from PVG, since there appear to be opportunities for such growth.

PVG-YUL also stands a good fighting chance given AC's desirability to formulate a JV with CA. This effectively gives CA and AC presence in all of the major route pairings between YYZ-PVG, YYZ-PEK, YUL-PEK, YUL-PVG, YVR-PEK and YVR-PVG.

The CAN-YYZ route leaves me scratching my head.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Congrats to YYZ! Quite shocked that YYZ gets immediately 7x weekly comparison to when they flew to JFK they started with 4x weekly!
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:46 pm

Got this from another forum...

CZ311 CAN 1430 - 1725 YYZ 77W x246
CZ312 YYZ 0130 - 0530+1 CAN 77W x357

Effective Aug 2016, Tentative schedule awaiting approval
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
ek241yyz
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:01 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 8):

Thanks Brussels Airlines, WOW Air, and China Southern. Iberia and TAP might come, let's see who else..
Travel often; getting lost will help you find yourself.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:48 am

Quoting ek241yyz (Reply 9):

TP is the most likely to be next.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:49 am

Quoting irishayes (Reply 6):

Why is it weird? Huge Chinese population in YYZ and traffic to Southeast Asia like MNL that CZ can route through its growing CAN hub. If an East Asian airline flies only five routes to America they will be YVR LAX SFO JFK YYZ, exactly the ones CZ will now have.
 
fly_yhm
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:47 am

I herd it was support to be sooner than August. Anyway this is still awesome. I also wish for the 787 though.

As far a TAP I handn't herd that. Iberia I am still waiting to hear more on.
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VCEflyboy
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:26 am

With the high speed rail between HK and GZ, if the price is right CZ can attract quite a lot of HK travellers
 
PhoenixVIP
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:17 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 6):
The CAN-YYZ route leaves me scratching my head.

Large Chinese population and provides another alternate in Canada to South East Asia connections that would be cheap.

The 77W is probably slightly big for the route to start at weekly but that is the best plane CZ has to make the trip with decent payload and make it worthwhile. 789 would have been perfect.
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DolphinAir747
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:23 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 13):
With the high speed rail between HK and GZ, if the price is right CZ can attract quite a lot of HK travellers

Not unless they go for the really, really, really desperately low-yielding passengers (which CZ is not unknown to do). If I remember correctly the only high-speed train leaves from Shenzhen, involving going all the way to the north of Hong Kong, going through a long border crossing, taking the Shenzhen subway up to the North train station, then getting on the train, then taking the Guangzhou subway up...sounds dreadful and CZ would have to give away tickets for free for people to do this.

Guangzhou is a huge metropolis and the center of China's industrial economy. It will do fine.

The question now is, will CZ retry LOS from CAN but this time nonstop? How is their NBO route doing?
 
Flightsimboy
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:34 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 8):
CZ312 YYZ 0130

They should have just left at 0120 like Cathay and Eva Air !! CX 829 0120, BR 035 0120.

At least we get to see her in daylight
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
whywhyzee
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:05 pm

Hi all, after years of reading this site,many years that is, I have finally decided to join because of these forums.

I personally really look forward to this service, with the opening of the Canada-China bilateral late last year, the door is open to connect more Chinese cities to Canada, and with a huge Chinese population in Toronto, and Chinese economic ties to Ontario I definitely don't see this as the last new service.

As for TAP and Iberia, TAP has all but guaranteed the route, just a matter of when. With their long haul flying adjustment for S16, they should have 1 or 2 A332s available for YYZ/IAD/BOS, they could run all of them on a less then daily frequency with the changes in place. With SATA seemingly up in the air for S16, TAP wouldn't have any trouble filling these aircraft.

Iberia announced via a press release that they are strongly considering YYZ with their new A332 deliveries. I would rate it as a matter of when rather then if, but the final hurdle they have to clear is timing the fight so they have gate space. YYZ T3 at the peak european departure time is very very full. I see a couple of possible solutions:They can time their flight so that it arrives early and can park on hardstand for turnaround, thus requiring less on get time, similar to 9W and AU currently. They could also time its arrival similar to China Southern, arriving after some flights have departed T3, opening up some gate space, and leave around 20:00L.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:32 pm

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 10):
TP is the most likely to be next.

Not according to this.

http://apex.aero/2016/01/15/tap-announces-tap-express

“As of next March 27, TAP will increase the number of weekly flights to destinations already served in Europe, Brazil, the United States and Africa, reinforcing our product consistency.”

Seems they want to concentrate on building up frequency on already served routes.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:36 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 18):

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 10):
TP is the most likely to be next.

Not according to this.

http://apex.aero/2016/01/15/tap-announces-tap-express

“As of next March 27, TAP will increase the number of weekly flights to destinations already served in Europe, Brazil, the United States and Africa, reinforcing our product consistency.”

Seems they want to concentrate on building up frequency on already served routes.

Check the thread on TP cutting some routes because it has more detail; apparently they are only adding one daily frequency to 2 6x daily routes so they will still have a lot of slack left to start new North American routes.
 
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VCEflyboy
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:09 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 15):
Not unless they go for the really, really, really desperately low-yielding passengers (which CZ is not unknown to do). If I remember correctly the only high-speed train leaves from Shenzhen

Nope that's in Kowloon. And CX operational costs simply cannot compete with CZ. A low-yielding CX passenger may be a decent one for CZ.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:25 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 11):

Actually, after a little more digging, I suppose the route does make sense. After all, China Southern is one of the largest airlines in the world and has a massive network into Australia and New Zealand. Similar to how China Eastern is tapping into the ORD-Oceania market with its service, the CZ flight to YYZ will help tailor towards that.

And yet...

Quoting PhoenixVIP (Reply 14):
Large Chinese population and provides another alternate in Canada to South East Asia connections that would be cheap.

The 77W is probably slightly big for the route to start at weekly but that is the best plane CZ has to make the trip with decent payload and make it worthwhile. 789 would have been perfect.

...this is where I suppose things become a bit more nebulous. The reality is that a lot of CZ's long-haul routes are unprofitable, including the A380 service to LAX. But, then again, the nature of the beast with Chinese carriers, especially where subsidies exist on certain routes, doesn't need to be as transparent.
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:15 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 20):
Nope that's in Kowloon

The West Kowloon terminus will not see service until 2018.

Until that time, pax need to use Hung Hom station to travel to Lok Ma Chau and cross the border. From there they take the Shenzhen metro to Shenzhen North station for the high speed train to Guangzhou South station. The Guangzhou metro involves a transfer to reach the CAN metro station.

Imagine doing all that with luggage? I doubt CX sees CZ as a threat for HKG O&D pax.
 
B-HOP
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:17 am

From Hong Kong, The easiest way is use the MTR to Lo Wu, then the HSR to Guangzhou East Station, then Guangzhou MTR, should take around 2-3 hours door to door, with 1 suitcase, it is do-able (through difficult in Lo Wu), bear in mind many in Hong Kong actually lives on the mainland, even in Hong Kong, mostly 1 change of trains on MTR from most places too. I always see CZ as attractive for low yield pax from Hong Kong
Live life to max!!!
 
CX711
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RE: China Southern Applies For Guangzhou - Toronto

Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:55 am

Will this new route have any affect on CX's HKG-YYZ traffic? Apart from HK resident passengers taking the CZ flight, what about the inverse possibility? How much of the present CX traffic on this route come from cities along the PRD that can access HK airport by ferry?

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