MAS To End 777 Operations In March

KarelXWB · Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:20 pm

For now, the final MAS 777 flight is scheduled for March 26:

Quote:
Malaysia Airlines this week begins summer 2016 schedule adjustment, on/after 27MAR16. The schedule change results in tentative plan of last Boeing 777-200ER operation, currently scheduled on 26MAR16.

On 26MAR16, the 777 operates last flight on Kuala Lumpur – Guangzhou route, which will switch to 737-800 from 27MAR16.

Source
http://airlineroute.net/2015/12/23/mh-777-s16update1/

[Edited 2016-01-04 06:22:49]

JayBCNLON · Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:44 pm

I think the combination of MH and 777 will never be a seller ever again. So I believe this is a good decision.

TheFlyingDisk · Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:50 pm

I would say it's 99.9% confirmed based on my conversation with a friend who just quit MH - she was in the scheduling department.

[Edited 2016-01-04 06:51:37]

LAXintl · Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:54 pm

Yes was posted in the MAS thread last month.

Last 777 services supposed to be March 26/27th.

Apparently only 6 frames remain in service at this time anyhow.

georgiabill · Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:57 pm

How old are MH'S remaining 777'S? Any chance they will be flying for another airline or scrapped for parts?

TC957 · Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:05 pm

The withdrawn ones have thus far ended up in various US desert storage sites. Not too sure if any airline wishes to be associated with having ex-MH 772's in their fleet given their image.

727LOVER · Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:06 pm

Quoting JayBCNLON (Reply 1):
I think the combination of MH and 777 will never be a seller ever again. So I believe this is a good decision.

Did MH actually state this or are you just speculating?

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factsonly · Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:27 pm

The MAS B772 operational reliability since the European route closure announcement KUL-AMS and KUL-CDG, has been dreadful.

Every MAS - Europe B772 flight has been over 1 hour late at minimum.

KUL-AMS:

2016-01-03 MH16 KUL - AMS B772 (9M-MRL) 99 minutes late
2016-01-02 MH16 KUL - AMS B772 (9M-MRA) 86 minutes late
2016-01-01 MH16 KUL - AMS B772 (9M-MRQ) 291 minutes late
2015-12-31 MH16 KUL - AMS B772 (9M-MRA) 96 minutes late
2015-12-30 MH16 KUL - AMS B772 (9M-MRE) 77 minutes late
2015-12-29 MH16 KUL - AMS B772 (9M-MRA) 93 minutes late
2015-12-28 MH16 KUL - AMS B772 (9M-MRE) 82 minutes late

KUL-CDG:

2016-01-03 MH20 KUL - CDG B772 (9M-MRQ) 128 minutes late
2016-01-02 MH20 KUL - CDG B772 (9M-MRE) 117 minutes late
2016-01-01 MH20 KUL - CDG B772 (9M-MRL) 105 minutes late
2015-12-31 MH20 KUL - CDG B772 (9M-MRM) 292 minutes late
2015-12-30 MH20 KUL - CDG B772 (9M-MRQ) 88 minutes late
2015-12-29 MH20 KUL - CDG B772 (9M-MRM) 129 minutes late

GCT64 · Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:37 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 5):
The withdrawn ones have thus far ended up in various US desert storage sites.

Not all in the US:

2 at Teruel (Spain)
1 at Chateauroux (France)
1 at TLV

US ones:

1 at GYR
2 at SBD
1 at SFB (scrapped and gone now)

DolphinAir747 · Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:05 pm

Quoting gct64 (Reply 8):
1 at TLV

Strange, I thought Malaysia and Israel had no diplomatic relations?

LAXintl · Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:09 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 9):
Strange, I thought Malaysia and Israel had no diplomatic relations?

The planes dont belong to MAS. They go where their owners want to take them post lease.

GCT64 · Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:58 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
The planes dont belong to MAS. They go where their owners want to take them post lease.

And, like the other withdrawn ones, it no longer has a Malaysian registration. The TLV aircraft was 9M-MRI but is now registered N105GT.

bennett123 · Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:37 pm

Owned by GA Telesis LLC.

HTH

Ferminios · Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:33 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 7):

The MAS B772 operational reliability since the European route closure announcement KUL-AMS and KUL-CDG, has been dreadful.

Does anyone know what's up with that and whether it's accurate? Does MH fly slower, or take different routes (perhaps even more caution after MH17?), or do they even do a fuel stop?

If the data is correct, it's downright baffling when you compare the performance with KL, let's take their KUL-AMS flights on January 3rd.

MH016 03JAN - Dep in KUL: 00:14 (Scheduled 23:40 previous day) Arr in AMS: 08:09 (Scheduled 06:30) 99 mins late, total flight time 14 hours and 55 minutes (!). Operated by 9M-MRL, 772.

KL810 03JAN - Dep in KUL: 00:17 (Scheduled 23:55 previous day) Arr in AMS: 05:35 (Scheduled 06:00) 25 mins early, total flight time 12 hours and 18 minutes . Operated by PH-BVA, 77W.

How does MH manage to add 2.5 hours flying time

UA444 · Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:04 pm

There's a couple that are early to mid 2000s build. They should find a buyer, maybe DL. Newer than all of their 772ER.

BravoOne · Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:44 pm

I think the recent purchase by Delta was a former MS airplane. Don't know the number.

kaitak · Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:57 pm

Isn't MH supposed to get A350s at some stage?

Quoting TC957 (Reply 5):
Not too sure if any airline wishes to be associated with having ex-MH 772's in their fleet given their image.

It's sad that things ended up like this; I had the pleasure of flying on an MH 777 back in November 2001 and it was a lovely experience; a great airline too. I hope their new CEO helps them to restore their former glory.

9MMPQ · Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:15 pm

Quoting Ferminios (Reply 13):
How does MH manage to add 2.5 hours flying time

Different routing. From eastern Europe we used to track along the northern Turkish coast before heading further south to then enter Iran airspace. It's now considered a somewhat undesirable route which is more to do with avoiding the slightest perception that we come anywhere near areas of conflict then anything else. It's a very sensitive issue in Malaysia but one that further hurts the business case.

Nowadays we're routed much further south via northeastern Egypt and then crossing Saudi Arabia. KL (and others) seem to be maintaining the routing we have previously used.

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
Unconfirmed: MAS To End 777 Operations In March

It's been no secret the last leases will run out come March & B777 techcrews had already told MH AMS staff they had been advised some time ago they would be out of a job afterwards.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 16):
Isn't MH supposed to get A350s at some stage?

Late 2017 for LHR operations.

Motorhussy · Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:16 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 16):
Isn't MH supposed to get A350s at some stage?

Yes apparently from 2017 according to the following article, along with A330-900's.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/malaysia-air...-to-fly-airbus-a350-from-late-2017

In the meantime, is MH to consolidate its long-haul and wide-body fleet around the A333?

777Jet · Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:05 am

Quoting JayBCNLON (Reply 1):
I think the combination of MH and 777 will never be a seller ever again.

Whilst I agree, posting things like this on a.net can get you told off.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 5):
Not too sure if any airline wishes to be associated with having ex-MH 772's in their fleet given their image.

As above

Quoting UA444 (Reply 14):
They should find a buyer, maybe DL.

Even DL may not be interested in them being ex-MH 777s

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 2):
I would say it's 99.9% confirmed based on my conversation with a friend who just quit MH - she was in the scheduling department.

"she" - So it wasn't HH

tullamarine · Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

I beleive tbe delays are a fu ction of routing Due to issues in Syria etc, the flights are now headi g a much more southerly route across Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the Mediterranean this is addi g at least an hour to the flight time im doing KUL -AMS today and am expecting a long fligbt unfortunately

rbavfan · Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:15 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 6):

I would assume as he said "I think" that its obvious it was his opinion. No where did his comment contain anything indicating MH said it.

rbavfan · Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:18 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 9):
Strange, I thought Malaysia and Israel had no diplomatic relations?

It might be a frame that was leased to MH and the lesser has ops in TLV.

TheFlyingDisk · Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:57 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 5):
The withdrawn ones have thus far ended up in various US desert storage sites. Not too sure if any airline wishes to be associated with having ex-MH 772's in their fleet given their image.

Passengers wouldn't know where the airplane come from so I doubt airlines would care if they manage to get a bargain. Only avgeeks know that a 777-2H6ER was formerly operated by MH.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 19):
Even DL may not be interested in them being ex-MH 777s

If the price is right, who knows. Given how knowledgeable DL's people are about airline operations compared to know-nothing-know-it-alls that fill the Internet, I won't be surprised if they'll sniff around.

lijnden · Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:49 am

The MH tripple-7's are done. There is no after market for them and they will be scrapped. Planes like that are simply worth more in parts, and a conversion into freighters are simply not economical do-able. Don't forget that some of these planes are pushing about 20 years and must have accumulated a lot of cycles and hours.

I wonder more what will happen with the A380's? Iran? Saudia?

On another note, is MH keeping the cargo flights to AMS (Schiphol)?

factsonly · Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:42 am

On FR24 today Jan. 5, 2016:

Malaysia Airlines bans checked baggage on flights to London, Amsterdam & Paris because of "strong head winds"

http://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/684278736112455681

Distances and range.
KUL-AMS 6400 mi
KUL-CDG 6500 mi
KUL-LHR 6600 mi
A380 range ~8200 mi
B772ER range ~8900 mi

http://twitter.com/flightradar24

bill142 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:52 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 25):

They're currently flight a route similar to KUL-DXB-LXR-LHR but that only adds about 750 miles. Seems pretty drastic. I think there's a security threat and they're trying not to cause alarm given recent events.

TC957 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:48 pm

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 23):
Passengers wouldn't know where the airplane come from so I doubt airlines would care if they manage to get a bargain. Only avgeeks know that a 777-2H6ER was formerly operated by MH.

It would soon get out on social media, and then quite likely the lovely Daily Mail ( NOT ) that airline xxx is flying " old MH planes that disappear ". Sadly, much as I would love to see them have a second life, I'm not sure airlines would risk the negative publicity.

UA444 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:37 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 27):
It would soon get out on social media, and then quite likely the lovely Daily Mail ( NOT ) that airline xxx is flying " old MH planes that disappear ". Sadly, much as I would love to see them have a second life, I'm not sure airlines would risk the negative publicity.

Nonsense. There is nothing inherently wrong with ex-MH planes and nobody will make a big deal about it.

georgiabill · Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:12 pm

Are the remaining 777'S leased or owned by MH? If leased I would assume the leasing company will try to place them with another carrier if not, will find a buyer to part them out.

Outside of DL,what other airline might be in the market for 772 ER'S? PK perhaps?

TheFlyingDisk · Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:48 pm

Quoting georgiabill (Reply 29):

Outside of DL,what other airline might be in the market for 772 ER'S? PK perhaps?

IR? Not sure if Malaysia, being a Sunni majority nation, have taken a side in the Saudi-Iran standoff but I've not heard about the Malaysian diplomatic mission being recalled.

And I believe US sanctions doesn't apply to the planes already?

777Jet · Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:06 am

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 23):
compared to know-nothing-know-it-alls that fill the Internet,

There sure are plenty of them going around.

The sad thing is, they would look like geniuses compared to the previous MAS management and even quite a few politicians there

Quoting lijnden (Reply 24):
The MH tripple-7's are done. There is no after market for them and they will be scrapped.

They won't be the youngest to get scrapped also.

Quoting bill142 (Reply 26):
Quoting factsonly (Reply 25):

They're currently flight a route similar to KUL-DXB-LXR-LHR but that only adds about 750 miles. Seems pretty drastic. I think there's a security threat and they're trying not to cause alarm given recent events.

Drastic indeed if they are pushing the aircraft to the limits to that extent.

Maybe they should weigh pax (a 120kg human without luggage weighs the plane down more than a 60kg human with even 30kgs of luggage), or, block off rows of seats but still allow pax to bring their usual baggage entitlement?

Perhaps some regulars will go elsewhere if their luggage will be an issue?

And how will the luggage arrive later - on what flight?

They are probably just being extra cautious after MH17.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 27):
It would soon get out on social media, and then quite likely the lovely Daily Mail ( NOT ) that airline xxx is flying " old MH planes that disappear ".

One did indeed disappear - coming up to two year ago... Still missing...

FWIW the search for MH370 is expected to end in June 2016.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 28):
There is nothing inherently wrong with ex-MH planes

Something *could* have been wrong with 9M-MRO but that one won't be on the market.

tullamarine · Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:20 pm

Flew KUL-AMS on 9M-MRL last night and as expected it took longer than scheduled due to new routing over Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Headwinds of 160km/h plus for much of the journey didnt help either.

The MH 77Es are showing their age with old IFE etc but 34" legroom in Y is very welcome compared with the A333s.

The loads on both flights I was on yesterday was good but there is no doubt MH is cost cutting. There was a toilet out of action on last night's flight with a sticker over the door that looked like this wasn't the first flight where this was the case. In addition, there was very limited beverage offering available Beer and wine wasn't offerred but was available if you asked. Likewise there was no real milk available for tea and coffee, only creamer powder.

777Jet · Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:58 pm

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 32):

Thanks for the update!

I'm glad you made it to your destination safely

Does anybody know the last time MH updated their 777 IFE / PTVs if ever? Not that it matters now but I'm still curious compared to other carriers who seem to update / refurb more frequently.

Kent350787 · Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:19 am

Australian media is reporting today that MAS moved back to teh Iran route yesterday and has lifted baggage restrictions. http://www.traveller.com.au/its-pure...-baggage-ban-europe-flights-gm0sau

777way · Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:31 am

Quoting bill142 (Reply 26):

They're currently flight a route similar to KUL-DXB-LXR-LHR but that only adds about 750 miles

MH are doing this route?

9MMPQ · Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:55 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 35):
MH are doing this route?

Not stopping in DXB or LXR but in broad strokes it describes the route that has been followed the past days. At least with the routing now again via Iran somewhere people higher up have realised the complete nonsens this routing was, operating without cargo and little baggage. It's a big disservice to the passengers & a PR nightmare for the company. It's sad to see something like this could slip through & actually happen.

777way · Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:52 pm

They also avoid Pakistan airspace after EASA warning for airlines, how ever all reputed carriers are using it with no problem.

lightsaber · Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:53 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 18):

In the meantime, is MH to consolidate its long-haul and wide-body fleet around the A333?

An alliance with EK allows this.

Lightsaber

DolphinAir747 · Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 38):

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 18):

In the meantime, is MH to consolidate its long-haul and wide-body fleet around the A333?

An alliance with EK allows this.

Lightsaber

What does EK have to gain from such an alliance? I feel like there is more in it for MH...

Spiderguy252 · Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:39 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 39):
What does EK have to gain from such an alliance? I feel like there is more in it for MH...

As is the case with the QF alliance, feed from Malaysia into DXB is most likely the gain for EK, who can funnel the traffic West to Europe and beyond.

airbuseric · Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:38 pm

Quoting Ferminios (Reply 13):

Does anyone know what's up with that and whether it's accurate? Does MH fly slower, or take different routes (perhaps even more caution after MH17?), or do they even do a fuel stop?

Count technical delays. The MH 777's are almost falling apart. MH isn't known for maintaining their aircraft so well... Passengers onboard of the MH16/19 flight to KUL-AMS v.v. complain a lot about service received, no baggage loaded (why? weight restrictions? because fuel penalties MEL/CDL for mechanical issues?) and the crew is not the MH how I remember them from a few years ago!

9MMPQ · Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:57 am

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 41):
Passengers onboard of the MH16/19 flight to KUL-AMS v.v. complain a lot about service received, no baggage loaded (why? weight restrictions? because fuel penalties MEL/CDL for mechanical issues?)

Perhaps you may have seen it but this was covered in another thread: MH Not Carrying Bags On Flights To EU (by bill142 Jan 5 2016 in Civil Aviation)

But to keep it short & sweet, the decision to route further south across Saudi Arabia & onward to Egypt meant a signifiant increase in fuel uplift which pushes the B77E to it's maximum limits. The maximum being the structural limits of what the aircraft can handle, not the physical items that we would like to always see loaded such as baggage.

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 41):
and the crew is not the MH how I remember them from a few years ago!

That's a bit of a broad stroke but the current situation of course does eventually have an impact on people & like the rest of their colleagues who are working in ground positions the cabin crew also has an uncertain future ahead of them where jobs are certain to be lost. A sad state all around

TC957 · Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:12 am

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 41):
the crew is not the MH how I remember them from a few years ago!

I have a client due to return back to LHR from AKL in a couple of days so I'll speak with her about the MH service levels she experienced.

KarelXWB · Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:11 am

Quoting gct64 (Reply 8):
1 at Chateauroux (France)

=>

Aéroport Chateauroux - Deols (Marcel Dassault) by F-GOTPA, on Flickr

KarelXWB · Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:37 am

MAS accelerates last 777 operation to late January:

http://airlineroute.net/2016/01/20/mh-777-jan16/

777Jet · Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:51 am

""Kuala Lumpur – Guangzhou route sees the last 777 service on 26JAN16, instead of 27MAR16.""

Brought forward two months!

Just a week to go...

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