DiscoverCSG
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ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:40 am

ORD's T5 is a relatively rare example of a dedicated terminal for international flights and airlines at a major US airport. Unlike LAX with TBIT and JFK in the days of the former IAB, no other terminal at ORD has FIS facilities.

Consequently, Terminal 5 sees a plethora of arrivals each day from the two hubbed carriers - AA and UA, of course - as well as some of their alliance partners. It also handles the O&D flights of at least a couple dozen foreign carriers.

Is there any rhyme or reason to which flights park at which gate in T5? Are any gates restricted to certain (smaller) aircraft types? Are any gates used only or primarily for arrivals? Do any airlines have preferred gates due to lounge location or other factors?

(For reference: personally, I've only ever seen the FIS/arrivals portion of T5 when connecting on AA or UA.)
 
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jsnww81
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:48 am

I'm sure there are others with much more knowledge of the subject, but when I lived in Chicago (which I did for 15 years) and based on threads I've seen here in the past, there is a schedule for which flights use which gates. It's been posted here in past threads (I'd tell you to use the search function, but we all know where that gets you!)

Gate allocation is, if I recall correctly, driven by a few factors - primarily aircraft size (wingspan determines who can which gate at which time) and the ground handler servicing each flight (they try to cluster equipment in the same areas to avoid having to move it constantly). The lounges are all relatively close to the central core area, and none offers direct gate access, although that was allegedly something Qatar Airways pushed for (unsuccessfully) when they launched service.

About 10-15 years ago, it was relatively common for AA's international arrivals to use the western side of the building and UA's to use the eastern side. This had to do with AA's baggage recheck station being on the west side of the arrivals hall and UA's being on the east. As the terminal has gotten busier and more crowded in the last decade, that doesn't seem to be as rigidly enforced as it used to be.

There's a member on the site who used to post detailed charts of gate usage at T5 throughout a typical day. Perhaps (s)he can chime in with more detail - mine is all just based on personal observation.
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:13 am

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 1):
(I'd tell you to use the search function, but we all know where that gets you!)

Thanks for understanding. I searched several different ways and came up with nothing.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 1):
The lounges are all relatively close to the central core area

Does that explain why all of my UA and AA arrivals have come into the farthest gates? i.e. the aircraft were being towed away with no boarding of passengers, so proximity to lounges didn't matter?
 
jfk777
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:53 am

Why there is no central area FIS for United and AA at ORD is a mystery. Making connecting passengers clear customs at Terminal 5 and go on a train back to the UA & AA terminals is chaotic. Chicago deserves better as the major international airport in he Midwest.
 
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:58 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
Why there is no central area FIS for United and AA at ORD is a mystery. Making connecting passengers clear customs at Terminal 5 and go on a train back to the UA & AA terminals is chaotic. Chicago deserves better as the major international airport in he Midwest.

The ORD World Gateway Program was going to rebuild the T2 airside for UA and build a new T4 for AA - both with an FIS.

NW's fierce opposition, based on the fact that NW wouldn't have a monopoly on single-terminal TATL/TPAC connections in the Midwest (the DTW McNamara Terminal was under construction and NW had single-terminal connections at MSP for years) killed World Gateway.

Today, UA and AA want their own FIS facilities at ORD again, but not in a way that would add gates for competitors on their own dime (cough) West Terminal (cough).
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:04 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):

Too bad ORD T2 is all the RJs and non hub carriers. Else it would be a good single spot for both AA and UA to share FIS. Of course both carriers seem rather content with the current duopoly so I guess nothing will be done.
 
liftsifter
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:16 am

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Thread starter):
Is there any rhyme or reason to which flights park at which gate in T5? Are any gates restricted to certain (smaller) aircraft types? Are any gates used only or primarily for arrivals? Do any airlines have preferred gates due to lounge location or other factors?
M6, for example, is typically a 737 only gate. M1, M2 and M3 are used as overnight parking for Spirit, as needed. M5 is typically the "pre-cleared" gate, and EI uses it always. M8/M9 and M10/M11 are the 777/787 hub, won't see anything smaller than a 330 there. Those gates are highly desired by the carriers because the seating area is huge and it's right in front of the food, so it's not hard to find stragglers. M11 and M12 are basically always BA, it's near their lounges. If you see SAS anywhere other than M15, that means their station manager is cursing up a storm in the office, working at ORD for some four years, I've only seen SAS park at M16 twice, and they were not happy. The ME3 usually take M16/M17, occasionally M19, but no one wants M19. Austrian always takes M21.

UA and AA will park wherever there's space, which sometimes means they wait for quite a bit if they came in early or late. There's not really dedicated gates for anything, although, I'm sure the ME3 really want their own gates. I know a particular Dubai-based carrier has been itching to keep M7 since it's near their lounge and it's also near their office.

[Edited 2016-01-04 19:31:34]
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STT757
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:20 am

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Thread starter):
ORD's T5 is a relatively rare example of a dedicated terminal for international flights and airlines at a major US airport.

SFO and BOS being the other examples.
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:21 am

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 6):
If you see SAS anywhere other than M13, that means their station manager is cursing up a storm in the office, working at ORD for some four years, I've only seen SAS park at M15 twice, and they were not happy.

This past February I flew ARN-ORD-CPH with SK, and both flights used M15!
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liftsifter
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:30 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 8):

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 6):
If you see SAS anywhere other than M13, that means their station manager is cursing up a storm in the office, working at ORD for some four years, I've only seen SAS park at M15 twice, and they were not happy.

This past February I flew ARN-ORD-CPH with SK, and both flights used M15!

That was an oops on my part. M15 is SAS's, not M13! I've corrected the post.
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rbavfan
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:37 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 5):
but no one wants M19

Why? Whats the problem with M19?
 
liftsifter
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:53 am

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 10):

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 5):
but no one wants M19

Why? Whats the problem with M19?

It's a solid 15 minute walk from TSA, which means if the ground staff need to find passengers, it's like finding a cup of ice water in hell.
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ScottB
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:21 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
Quoting DiscoverCSG (Thread starter):
ORD's T5 is a relatively rare example of a dedicated terminal for international flights and airlines at a major US airport.

SFO and BOS being the other examples.

Ah, not to mention DFW and ATL. IAH had a single international terminal until about ten years ago; the two terminals with international arrivals (D & E) share a single FIS.
 
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:27 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
Making connecting passengers clear customs at Terminal 5 and go on a train back to the UA & AA terminals is chaotic.

I came back into the US through ORD on AA not so long ago. Mid afternoon arrival, it took all of 15 minutes from the time I left the jetway, bags on belt, rechecked bags, to the time I made my domestic AA gate. Now, I do have GE/TSA, but it's hard to see how a FIS in G/H would improve things much.
 
liftsifter
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:06 am

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 13):
I came back into the US through ORD on AA not so long ago. Mid afternoon arrival, it took all of 15 minutes from the time I left the jetway, bags on belt, rechecked bags, to the time I made my domestic AA gate. Now, I do have GE/TSA, but it's hard to see how a FIS in G/H would improve things much.

Outside of the Summer months, the CBP process is super quick and easy. When you stuff hundreds of people into that space, it gets pretty bad. I think it'll probably improve with time, CBP was really unprepared for the huge jump in traffic post-recession.
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:29 am

the system is inherently flawed, it just is unable to cope with ORD's growth. anyone have any creative solutions?
 
FSDan
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:57 am

I'm interested in how UA and AA turn international widebody aircraft at ORD since they have to tow them to other terminals before departure. Do they do anything other than just dump passengers and unload bags/cargo at T5 before the aircraft is towed, or do they do anything with the fuel and catering or cleaning of the aircraft as well? Particularly for the flights arriving throughout the afternoon, I imagine they try to move them off T5 as quickly as possible due to the heavy use of the terminal during that time.

I guess the same thing would go for NH, LH, IB, JL, and AB (are there any other international carriers that depart from T1 or T3)?
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liftsifter
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:05 am

Quoting FSDan (Reply 16):
I imagine they try to move them off T5 as quickly as possible due to the heavy use of the terminal during that time.

Yep. They move either to a hard stand or to a gate at T1/2/3 asap.
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:40 am

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 6):
M6, for example, is typically a 737 only gate. M1, M2 and M3 are used as overnight parking for Spirit, as needed. M5 is typically the "pre-cleared" gate, and EI uses it always. M8/M9 and M10/M11 are the 777/787 hub, won't see anything smaller than a 330 there. Those gates are highly desired by the carriers because the seating area is huge and it's right in front of the food, so it's not hard to find stragglers. M11 and M12 are basically always BA, it's near their lounges. If you see SAS anywhere other than M15, that means their station manager is cursing up a storm in the office, working at ORD for some four years, I've only seen SAS park at M16 twice, and they were not happy. The ME3 usually take M16/M17, occasionally M19, but no one wants M19. Austrian always takes M21.

UA and AA will park wherever there's space, which sometimes means they wait for quite a bit if they came in early or late. There's not really dedicated gates for anything, although, I'm sure the ME3 really want their own gates. I know a particular Dubai-based carrier has been itching to keep M7 since it's near their lounge and it's also near their office.

Same thing goes for the regionals who use it. There are not that many flights depending on what AA and UA have flying from an international arrival with no preclearance. There are a few flights to airports in Canada that have no preclearance, I don't know off hand which airports and what gates they use but it is usually off one end of the concourse away from the larger aircraft.
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:53 am

Can ORD terminal 5 yet handle the A380?
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:36 pm

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 1):
There's a member on the site who used to post detailed charts of gate usage at T5 throughout a typical day. Perhaps (s)he can chime in with more detail - mine is all just based on personal observation.
Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 2):

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 1):
(I'd tell you to use the search function, but we all know where that gets you!)

Thanks for understanding. I searched several different ways and came up with nothing.

I posted a few charts detailing the gate usage at T5 previously, based purely on observation of patterns emerging in gate allocation. The most recent one I did is below (then I got lazy!). There is a member on here - JCWR56 - that is a lot more knowledgeable than me on this as he works directly with the T5 carriers at ORD.

ORD Summer 2014 International Ops Summary (by AmricanShamrok Mar 6 2014 in Civil Aviation)

I'm a scheduling co-ordinator by occupation outside of the aviation industry which is why this sort of thing appeals to me.  


[Edited 2016-01-05 05:44:55]
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:55 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 20):
I'm a scheduling co-ordinator by occupation outside of the aviation industry which is why this sort of thing appeals to me.  

My work also involves scheduling (just myself, but I work at 30 or more sites in a major metro area notorious for traffic congestion), and this is one of my favorite leisure activities!
 
stlgph
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:59 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 20):

would be nice to see this done later this year after Icelandair and China Southern come in.

Tom Bradley, Boston Terminal E and JFK Terminal 1 would also be interesting to see charted.
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FSDan
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:57 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 22):
would be nice to see this done later this year after Icelandair and China Southern come in

China Eastern, you mean?

Quoting stlgph (Reply 22):
Tom Bradley, Boston Terminal E and JFK Terminal 1 would also be interesting to see charted.

It'd be interesting to see JFK T4 as well. There are a bunch of airlines there besides DL, and they all seem to share relatively few gates.
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:37 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
The ORD World Gateway Program was going to rebuild the T2 airside for UA and build a new T4 for AA - both with an FIS.

NW's fierce opposition, based on the fact that NW wouldn't have a monopoly on single-terminal TATL/TPAC connections in the Midwest (the DTW McNamara Terminal was under construction and NW had single-terminal connections at MSP for years) killed World Gateway.

Why would what NW did in MSP and DET kill a huge project at ORD ? It would seem that would act as a catalyst for ORD to act and make multiple FIS stations. LAX & JFK have several FIS facilities so why not ORD. ORD has spent tons of money on new runways( not a critic) so its not as if money is lacking at ORD.
 
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:46 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 24):
Why would what NW did in MSP and DET kill a huge project at ORD ?

Keep in mind that NW would have had to vacate their T2 gates as part of World Gateway. NW didn't want to lose their competitive advantage by being forced to move to also-proposed T6. And keep in mind that NW also subleased gates at T2 to TW, CO, and HP, so they would have been forced to move to T6.

Of course, most of those ORD T2 gates (save for a few leases sold to UA) are now DL's, and DL now sees the ME3 - not UA and AA - as their enemies these days. Should UA and AA get an FIS at ORD, I don't think that the DL of today will mind because DL has been friendly to swaps with UA and AA.
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ckfred
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:46 pm

I flew into ORD on BA this past August. The only slow part of the whole process (deplaning to calling for the limo) was waiting for the bags to appear on the carousel.

It seemed like it was a good 20 to 30 minutes from the time we cleared immigration until I had all of the bags for my family.

I'm used to domestic flying, where the vast majority of people carry their bags on board (including the elites, who don't want to risk a lost bag or wait in the baggage claim). So, to see so many bags, and so many large bags (rather than the standard rollerboard that fits in an overhead bin) was surprising.

Probably, a carousel in T5 can handle a 763, assuming that you have business travelers whose travels have them away from home for a few nights. But, when you get a 773 or a 744 with people who have planned the grand tour with the oversized bags, a carousel gets overwhelmed.

There were two airport employees whose jobs were to keep shuffling the bags, so that the bags coming off the conveyor didn't jam up the carousel.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:54 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 26):
But, when you get a 773 or a 744 with people who have planned the grand tour with the oversized bags, a carousel gets overwhelmed.

Some flights, like the LH 748 that comes in from FRA, use two carousels- one for transfer passengers and one for passengers with Chicago as their final destination
 
ckfred
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:17 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 25):

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 24):
Why would what NW did in MSP and DET kill a huge project at ORD ?

Keep in mind that NW would have had to vacate their T2 gates as part of World Gateway. NW didn't want to lose their competitive advantage by being forced to move to also-proposed T6. And keep in mind that NW also subleased gates at T2 to TW, CO, and HP, so they would have been forced to move to T6.

You would think that the two hub carriers at ORD, AA and UA, would have had the power to make or break a project the size of World Gateway, but because of the leases at the time, other non-hub carriers had some significant say in green-lighting the project.

As others have said, NW didn't want AA and UA be able to connect passengers from Europe and Asia within their own terminals, as NW was planning with its new terminal at DTW.

As World Gateway was planned, all domestic carriers other than UA and AA (and presumably their codeshare partners at the time, such as AS for AA and US for UA) were going to move to the new Terminal 6, east of Terminal 5. So, instead of walking on the air side to connect to UA and AA from Terminal 2 for a domestic connection, a connection from Terminal 6 meant taking the airport train and reclearing security.

In my mind, the western terminal has a lot of issues. No one has shown the plan for linking the western terminal to the other 4 terminals and remote parking. Running the airport train underground, running west from Terminal 1, would be horribly expensive. But, running the airport train along the north and west perimeters of the field would make for very long travel times to remote parking and the other terminals.

Elmhurst Road runs along the west side of the field, but it doesn't have a full interchange with Interstate 90 (the Jane Addams Tollway). And no one has any sort of time line for building the connector between Interstate 90, west of the airport, and Interstate 294, south of the airport.

The only reason why the City is focused on a western terminal is that some of the suburbs opposed to ORD expansion dropped their opposition in exchange for access to ORD from the west.

I live in Downers Grove. I would rather work my way to I-294 and come into ORD from I-190 than take either I-355/I-290 to the proposed east leg of the Elgin-O'Hare Expressway or Route 83 to Irving Park to Elmhurst Road.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:28 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 25):
Keep in mind that NW would have had to vacate their T2 gates as part of World Gateway. NW didn't want to lose their competitive advantage by being forced to move to also-proposed T6. And keep in mind that NW also subleased gates at T2 to TW, CO, and HP, so they would have been forced to move to T6.

How was Terminal 2 a competitive advantage? They'd have gotten brand new gates closer to the City/entrance to the airport.
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ORD Boy 2
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:42 pm

I somehow think at some point T6 will get built now.
JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier, and Virgin America need more gates.
AA and UA want more gates. Delta is fine on E now but for sure would love to move AF/KLM to 2 instead of the split ops now with the DL/AF flight to CDG leaving from 5 and KLM's AMS out of 5.
I think what eventually should happen is:
Build the World Gateway plan.
1/2 go to UA and UAX and Star
3/4 to AA/Eagle and oneworld.
5/6 to DL and SkyTeam and LCC's and non-affiliates.
FIS in all terminals.
 
ZBA2CGX
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:15 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 28):
Elmhurst Road runs along the west side of the field, but it doesn't have a full interchange with Interstate 90 (the Jane Addams Tollway). And no one has any sort of time line for building the connector between Interstate 90, west of the airport, and Interstate 294, south of the airport.

The new Elmhurst road interchange is under construction and appears to be about halfway done
http://www.illinoistollway.com/const.../elmhurst-road-interchange-project
As for the connector along Elmhurst road, York rd from i-90 past i-390 to i-290, that is years away.
http://www.illinoistollway.com/docum...1e643b-b09f-4dc6-a9b5-6822e60c8d7e

As for T6, I also remember someone on the forum mentioning that there were issues with the east end of the proposed T6. I think it had to do with interfering with the taxiway operations for 22L-4R and 28R-10L
 
ORDTLV2414
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:28 pm

Quoting ORD+Boy+2" class="quote" target="_blank">ORD Boy 2 (Reply 30):
AA and UA want more gates. Delta is fine on E now but for sure would love to move AF/KLM to 2 instead of the split ops now with the DL/AF flight to CDG leaving from 5 and KLM's AMS out of 5.

is DL transiting people to CDG/AMS through ORD? Seems unwise.
 
stlgph
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:46 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 23):

yes, duh, eastern. thanks.

there is a website for terminal 1 that lists airlines and their arrivals and departures with gates. some assignments, i've noticed, do change on a daily basis, which i find interesting.
haven't found a similar website for the other JFK terminals.
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compensateme
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:12 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
The ORD World Gateway Program was going to rebuild the T2 airside for UA and build a new T4 for AA - both with an FIS.

NW's fierce opposition, based on the fact that NW wouldn't have a monopoly on single-terminal TATL/TPAC connections in the Midwest (the DTW McNamara Terminal was under construction and NW had single-terminal connections at MSP for years) killed World Gateway.

This is entirely inaccurate. The primary opposition to the ORD World Gateway project was the residents and businesses who'd have to relocate, as well as political leaders (and others who'd benefit economically) who favored a third airport. When they finally agreed to the World Gateway project, the price had swelled tremendously (not only did ORD have to cut a big enough check to get everybody onboard, but it had to do so during a period of soaring construction inputs) and it was 2002. UA & AA were cutting ORD and no longer saw a need for the project; instead, both favored a modernization program instead.

Recall that in the 1990s, ORD's growth was limited by slots & gates and places like DTW, CLE, CVG, etc. were built to take advantage of the congestion. But today a re-built MDW has stolen local traffic, ORD hubs a stagnant population center and DFW/IAH/ATL have been built-up and anchor the population growth centers. Put simply, ORD isn't the same place it was, and it's hard to argue that growth is limited beyond that of new entrants and smaller carriers.

At least ORD is starting to modernize. UA has finally completed a modernization of Terminal 2, eliminating a hodgepodge of 1970s and 1980s carpeting, multicolored seating & GID in favor of a uninform, ultramodern look. DL also gave uniform appearance to the ex-NW/CO/US gates (sans the carpeting). The rest of the terminal has also been vastly improved (removal of most archaic newspaper boxes & payphones, improved concessions/retail/lounges, modern LCD arrival/departure screens, fresh paint, etc.). UA is also bringing its look into Terminal 1; personally, I think in-seat power within the hold area is necessary, but I could do without the 'chic' look -- couches, therapedic aquariums, desks that look straight out of an Apple commercial, etc. -- this is Chicago, not Los Angeles, we're suppose to be tough!!

[Edited 2016-01-05 10:15:48]
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Revo1059
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:29 pm

T5 gates are assigned by AC type and schedule. Some time ago airlines used to get "their" gates, for example BA could count on getting M11 every day both both flights. Those days are mostly gone as the schedule doesn't allow for that anymore. When MD80s come in (it's been a long time) they were limited to certain gates (M13, etc). Putting RJ and LY at adjoining gates was a big no no.
 
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vhtje
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:55 pm

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 1):
The lounges are all relatively close to the central core area, and none offers direct gate access, although that was allegedly something Qatar Airways pushed for (unsuccessfully) when they launched service.

There is direct access to gate M12 or M13 (sorry I cannot remember which) from the BA First lounge.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 26):
It seemed like it was a good 20 to 30 minutes from the time we cleared immigration until I had all of the bags for my family.

I arrive into ORD on BA frequently - at least 4 times a year, often more if I am working on a project there. I would suggest your experience is unusual. More often than not my bags are waiting for me by the time I have cleared immigration, or arrive within 5 minutes of my getting to the carousel.

I have, once, disembarked-to-Uber - that is, disembarked the aircraft, cleared immigration, retrieved my bags and cleared customs - in just under 15 minutes. Only once has it taken more an hour (in fact it was closer to 2 - 4 heavies arrived at once and immigration was utter chaos). In my experience, it is typically around 20-30 minutes from aircraft to taxi. It is a very good facility, far better, in my view, than, say, T8 at JFK.

Then again, maybe I have been ridiculously lucky?
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mcg
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:35 pm

Why doesn't LX tow their aircraft to Terminal 2 for departure as do LH and UA? I suspect the answer is that they have simply concluded that it would be more trouble than it's worth, but I'm curious.
 
FSDan
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:02 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 37):
Why doesn't LX tow their aircraft to Terminal 2 for departure as do LH and UA? I suspect the answer is that they have simply concluded that it would be more trouble than it's worth, but I'm curious.

There might not be enough widebody gates over at T1 in the afternoon. I think there are only about 5 gates on the C concourse and 2 on the B concourse that can accommodate aircraft larger than a 767. It looks like in the coming schedule UA will need to accommodate at least 5 777s on T1 in the middle of the afternoon, plus LH would have a 748 at one of the gates on concourse B and NH might have a departure in there as well (but if I remember correctly that one might not depart from T1?). Either way, I don't think there is much room for additional widebodies at the UA gates in the afternoon.
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ORD Boy 2
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:29 pm

Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 32):
is DL transiting people to CDG/AMS through ORD? Seems unwise.

ORD-CDG is operated by AF in summer and DL in the winter...
 
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United787
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:10 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 37):
Why doesn't LX tow their aircraft to Terminal 2 for departure as do LH and UA? I suspect the answer is that they have simply concluded that it would be more trouble than it's worth, but I'm curious.

I always got the impression that UA only wanted LH and NH at T1 with them...
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:12 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 40):
I always got the impression that UA only wanted LH and NH at T1 with them...

Why would that be the case?
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:17 pm

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 41):

Why would that be the case?

Because they are their main JV partners?

The bigger issue is that UA doesn't really have that many spare widebody gates to lend at T1
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:41 pm

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 42):
The bigger issue is that UA doesn't really have that many spare widebody gates to lend at T1

  

This issue is going to be a bigger factor in the coming years as 767s are replaced by 787s with much larger wingspans. 787s do not fit between concourses B and C in the C-odd gates (C29 is probably the exception). T1 was designed when 767s and DC10s were the workhorses of UA and they fit in almost any gate. T3 is even more restricted.

A western terminal, or at least hardstand parking, will have to be built just to accommodate the current number of AA/UA flights that will eventually be on larger aircraft. Hardstand parking would be a good, short-term way of creating more parking space for these flights but it doesn't address the problem of the mass of pax that would choke the terminals that were designed mostly for domestic ops.
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ORD Boy 2
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:50 am

Quoting finnishway (Reply 19):
Quoting finnishway (Reply 19):

Can ORD terminal 5 yet handle the A380?

Nope.
 
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compensateme
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:40 am

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 43):
This issue is going to be a bigger factor in the coming years as 767s are replaced by 787s with much larger wingspans. 787s do not fit between concourses B and C in the C-odd gates (C29 is probably the exception). T1 was designed when 767s and DC10s were the workhorses of UA and they fit in almost any gate. T3 is even more restricted.

A western terminal, or at least hardstand parking, will have to be built just to accommodate the current number of AA/UA flights that will eventually be on larger aircraft. Hardstand parking would be a good, short-term way of creating more parking space for these flights but it doesn't address the problem of the mass of pax that would choke the terminals that were designed mostly for domestic ops.

T1 was designed for UA's extensive use of widebody equipment during an era when D10 and 747 were common on domestic routes, so let's not pretend the terminal is incapable of handling "mass of pax." Many of these gates have since been reconfigured to better handle other aircraft types (including regional jets) and should the need arise, can be reconfigured again/
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United1
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:03 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 5):
Too bad ORD T2 is all the RJs and non hub carriers

Actually T2 is UA, DL and AC...all of the other airlines moved to T3 L concourse or use T5.

Quoting compensateme (Reply 45):
" Many of these gates have since been reconfigured to better handle other aircraft types (including regional jets) and should the need arise, can be reconfigured again/

Actually UA only has 6 or 7 gates that are capable of accommodating 747/777/787 aircraft at ORD. Those old DC-10 gates (center odd C gates and middle B) are not capable of handling much above a 767 simply because of the way the terminal was designed.
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jsnww81
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:35 am

Quoting compensateme (Reply 45):
T1 was designed for UA's extensive use of widebody equipment during an era when D10 and 747 were common on domestic routes, so let's not pretend the terminal is incapable of handling "mass of pax."

Very true. Over the years retail kiosks and TSA checkpoints have encroached on a lot of the circulation space, especially in Concourse B. Twenty years ago I can remember T1 seeming very spacious, even when multiple widebodies were unloading.
 
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compensateme
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:49 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 46):
Actually UA only has 6 or 7 gates that are capable of accommodating 747/777/787 aircraft at ORD. Those old DC-10 gates (center odd C gates and middle B) are not capable of handling much above a 767 simply because of the way the terminal was designed.

At the moment, I don't disagree. But the point is that the terminal CAN be reconfigured to fit UA's current fleet -- yes, it'll cost $$$, but it'll cost a lot less $$$ than building another terminal. UA/ORD have desired to reconfigure B/C (especially C) for years to fit modern needs (current fleet, increased concessions, etc) so it'll probably happen sooner than later. Unfortunately, the needs will probably be fewer widebody and more 737NG capable.
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United1
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RE: ORD Terminal 5 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:06 am

Quoting compensateme (Reply 48):
But the point is that the terminal CAN be reconfigured to fit UA's current fleet -- yes, it'll cost $$$, but it'll cost a lot less $$$ than building another terminal. UA/ORD have desired to reconfigure B/C (especially C) for years to fit modern needs (current fleet, increased concessions, etc) so it'll probably happen sooner than later.

Absolutely I agree with you 100% that UA has remodeled T1 lots of times over the past 25 years in order to fit their current fleet and will continue to do so in the future. Where I disagree with you on is UAs ability to reconfigure their gates to accommodate any more of the current generation of wide bodies...which is what the original comment that started this sidebar was about...they might be able to squeeze one or two more in on the even C gates but that's a big if. Those odd C gates that were used to park DC-10s really can't be modified to accommodate a 747/77/787 without basically rebuilding C. The 10s fit into those gates because they were relatively short aircraft with a rather narrow wingspan (155-165 feet) for a widebody. They also built these cut outs between the gate areas that UA would pull the nose of the 10s into to clear the alley way between B and C so two aircraft could taxi between the concourses.
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