EK Downguages DFW To 77W Effective 1 Feb 16

Sooner787 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:25 pm

Already have the 77W loaded in SABRE

1EK 222 F2 A2 J4 C4*DFWDXB 1125A 1155A‡1 77W 0 DCA /E
I4 O7 P0 Y7 E7 R7 W7 M7 B7 U7

But, it apears to be temporary, because the 380's are loaded back in SABRE effective April 2nd thru rest of 2016

[Edited 2016-01-05 08:29:10]

[Edited 2016-01-05 08:29:27]

jetblue1965 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:29 pm

Finally facing the reality of the 50-55% LF instead of incessantly burning cash for the sake for a pissing match.

G500 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:29 pm

I'm not surprised with this downgauge. I'm more surprised Emirates flies Dallas at all

Ytraveller · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:31 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
I'm more surprised Emirates flies Dallas at all

DFW started way back in 2012 along with SEA, so it must have been doing well.

enilria · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:32 pm

While I think EK is very well managed, I do think they struggle finding homes for the A380s, but limits on DXB capacity force their hand on the other side.

DFW is a great example of a market where they were probably compelled to put an A380 by limited other options. There are probably other markets in the same boat.

Sooner787 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:34 pm

The local EK sales rep has been aggressively marketing the flight
to the local travel agency community and they're upfront about the
challenges of filling that big bird up 7 days a week.

lancelot07 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:37 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
I'm more surprised Emirates flies Dallas at all

DFW is a major hub for connecting.

MaverickM11 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:41 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
I do think they struggle finding homes for the A380s

There have been a few fits and starts with the 380 lately that do not bode well, and with the developing world and China slowing down it's going to only get more competitive.

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 6):
DFW is a major hub for connecting.

Not for EK

dfwjim1 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:43 pm

Very soon there will be weeping and gnashing coming from the Dallas Business Journal

.

lancelot07 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:46 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
Not for EK

But for its passengers.

deltairlines · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:49 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 9):
But for its passengers.

Doubt it. Pretty sure American and Emirates don't have an interline agreement, which would make it very cumbersome and most of the time a lot more expensive for a customer.

DolphinAir747 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:51 pm

Is EK putting a new J class on the 77Ws soon? 7-across J angle-flat on a 15-hour flight is disgusting no matter how much fake gold polish the seats have.

LAXdude1023 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:53 pm

This shouldnt be a surprise. This will boost the loads into the upper 80's.

Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
I'm not surprised with this downgauge. I'm more surprised Emirates flies Dallas at all

Well dont blame anyone else for your lack of knowledge about the market.

AVENSAB727 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:57 pm

Looks like IAH is not the only one losing the A380, either that they were too much capacity or that they were not the right aircraft on the routes. kinda sucks for EK, looks like a flaw of the double decker is showing.

DolphinAir747 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:57 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 12):
Well dont blame anyone else for your lack of knowledge about the market.

DFW has a huge Indian population yes; however EY and QR both fly there as well and unlike EK have relationships with AA to better exploit their fortress hub at DFW. Similarly, isn't the argument for EK not to launch MIA the same?

avi8tir · Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:01 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 11):

Is EK putting a new J class on the 77Ws soon? 7-across J angle-flat on a 15-hour flight is disgusting no matter how much fake gold polish the seats have.

Bingo. Exactly my thoughts. I absolutely HATE those seats and would rather fly UA to DXB (until January 23rd

)

Feeling the pain here in Houston too!!

MrHMSH · Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:09 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 1):
Finally facing the reality of the 50-55% LF instead of incessantly burning cash for the sake for a pissing match.

It looks like it's temporary...

factsonly · Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:39 pm

And EK announces:

Starting 1st February 2016 the A380 will be placed on the 2nd AMS-DXB service:

- EK149 dep. 15.15 DXB - arr. AMS 20.00 A380-800 daily
- EK150 dep. 22.00 AMS - arr. DXB 07.35 A380-800 daily

HB-IWC · Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:42 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 17):
Starting 1st February 2016 the A380 will be placed on the 2nd AMS-DXB service:

That does not relate to the DFW downgauge. The A380 for AMS is sourced of the MXP route, where EK091/092 will remain with B77W instead of being upgauged to A380.

thomasphoto60 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:58 pm

Not certain why everyone is glossing over this tidbit.

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 16):

It looks like it's temporary...

Quoting Sooner787 (Thread starter):
But, it apears to be temporary, because the 380's are loaded back in SABRE effective April 2nd thru rest of 2016

Sooner787 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:07 pm

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 19):
Not certain why everyone is glossing over this tidbit.

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 16):

It looks like it's temporary...
Quoting Sooner787 (Thread starter):
But, it apears to be temporary, because the 380's are loaded back in SABRE effective April 2nd thru rest of 2016

I'm confused by this , since IAH is losing their 380 flight in July and that appears to be
a permanent move?

lancelot07 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:30 pm

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 10):
Doubt it. Pretty sure American and Emirates don't have an interline agreement, which would make it very cumbersome and most of the time a lot more expensive for a customer.

Cumbersome - yes.
But if you want to fly to Dubai from some small town in Texas, why not ? EK is said to be very cheap, and some say they have great service.

MAH4546 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:33 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 13):
kinda sucks for EK, looks like a flaw of the double decker is showing.

So because Houston and Dallas can't support the double-decker, it is flawed? Don't think so. Other markets can support it, just not Texas to Dubai. Which shouldn't be surprising.

Sooner787 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:37 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 22):
So because Houston and Dallas can't support the double-decker, it is flawed? Don't think so. Other markets can support it, just not Texas to Dubai. Which shouldn't be surprising.

It would be kinda funny if QR swooped into IAH with one of their 380's once EK 's gone

Revelation · Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:38 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 11):
7-across J angle-flat on a 15-hour flight is disgusting

Disgusting???

gdg9 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:39 pm

Good chance to fill my photo library with some EK 77Ls for a while.

readytotaxi · Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:40 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 11):
Is EK putting a new J class on the 77Ws soon?

Any news about this?

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 11):
J angle-flat on a 15-hour flight is disgusting no matter how much fake gold polish the seats have.

Agreed, it is a step backwards in todays J Class market I feel.

jayunited · Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:00 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 6):
DFW is a major hub for connecting.

Yes it is a major hub for passengers connecting on AA or a Oneworld partner but I do wonder how many passengers are making a connection onto EK. Now don't jump to conclusions but I do wonder with all of the expansion EK has done in the U.S. over the pass few years how that expansion has effect their flights out of cities like DFW or IAH. I personally know people who use to fly to either IAH, DFW or JFK to connect to an EK flight now they don't have to because ORD has nonstop service. Don't miss understand what I'm saying because I know demand is there; there are even reports or rumors of some cities going daily double to meet increasing demand. However, I do wonder how much of that demand comes at the expense of cities like IAH and DFW where in the past they probably did see a lot of connecting traffic and now they are probably more reliant on O&D traffic than connecting traffic. Take MCO for example those customers had to make a connection somewhere now they have nonstop service. I don't think EK will stop or even slow down their expansion here in the U.S. I do think in certain markets there will be some rightsizing done to account for a drop in passenger who are no longer making connections instead they are choosing to fly nonstop from their home city or a city that is closer to were they live.

Planesmart · Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:49 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 27):
Yes it is a major hub for passengers connecting on AA or a Oneworld partner but I do wonder how many passengers are making a connection onto EK. Now don't jump to conclusions but I do wonder with all of the expansion EK has done in the U.S. over the pass few years how that expansion has effect their flights out of cities like DFW or IAH. I personally know people who use to fly to either IAH, DFW or JFK to connect to an EK flight now they don't have to because ORD has nonstop service. Don't miss understand what I'm saying because I know demand is there; there are even reports or rumors of some cities going daily double to meet increasing demand. However, I do wonder how much of that demand comes at the expense of cities like IAH and DFW where in the past they probably did see a lot of connecting traffic and now they are probably more reliant on O&D traffic than connecting traffic. Take MCO for example those customers had to make a connection somewhere now they have nonstop service. I don't think EK will stop or even slow down their expansion here in the U.S. I do think in certain markets there will be some rightsizing done to account for a drop in passenger who are no longer making connections instead they are choosing to fly nonstop from their home city or a city that is closer to were they live.

And from my own experience, when you have a choice of international flights to/from airports quite close together, you factor in airport preferences, whereas previously it was 'what can I get?' Might not be the closest airport, but perception of the best airport.

So 20 or even 10 years ago, flying to the UK, I would have arrived at LHR 100% of the time. For now I prefer LGW.

lancelot07 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:01 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 27):

You are quite right, they certainly are cannibalizing destinations by adding new ones. But still, Texas (+ some surrounding states) is a huge catchment area that should support a daily flight from 2 cities. You Americans often seem to forget just how large the USA are.
Texas alone is twice the size of Germany, where EK has 4 destinations and 10 daily flights - and then they fly daily to ZRH and VIE to cover the rest of the german speaking area in Europe.

Polot · Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:09 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 29):

You are quite right, they certainly are cannibalizing destinations by adding new ones. But still, Texas (+ some surrounding states) is a huge catchment area that should support a daily flight from 2 cities. You Americans often seem to forget just how large the USA are.
Texas alone is twice the size of Germany, where EK has 4 destinations and 10 daily flights - and then they fly daily to ZRH and VIE to cover the rest of the german speaking area in Europe.

But Germany has 3x the population of Texas, despite being half the size, and Texas is more than 2x further away from DXB (and not ideally located in the US for connections on to EK if you really want to fly them). Much harder to make the numbers work with Texas than Europe.

DFW is suffering from ME3 over capacity, and IAH is suffering from the energy sector downturn due to oil prices.

toxtethogrady · Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:31 pm

So the other shoe drops?

I suspect that EK is not going to leave DFW and IAH at less than 380 capacity for too long. They seem to fly those everywhere.

Ammad · Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:34 pm

Emiretes just took delivery of 72nd A380, Looks to me DFW downgrade is temporary. By April Emirates will be getting more A380's in her fleet and hopefully by then DFW will be back to A380 service. However, IAH downgrade seems to be permanent.

[Edited 2016-01-05 12:41:08]

Sooner787 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:38 pm

Quoting Ammad (Reply 32):
However, IAH downgrade seems to be permanent.

I wonder if EK would go back to a daily double 777 service to IAH once the oil economy picks back up?

IrishAyes · Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:39 pm

Not surprising at all, but whether or not EK will actually resume the 380 service remains to be seen. QR is up-gauging DFW to a 77W in July with a 10-abreast configured bird in Y.

EY has also not budged on increasing frequency from 3x to daily, despite earlier statements that they would proceed with the additional flights that were eventually revoked/pushed-back to an nondescript date.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 27):
Yes it is a major hub for passengers connecting on AA or a Oneworld partner but I do wonder how many passengers are making a connection onto EK. Now don't jump to conclusions but I do wonder with all of the expansion EK has done in the U.S. over the pass few years how that expansion has effect their flights out of cities like DFW or IAH. I personally know people who use to fly to either IAH, DFW or JFK to connect to an EK flight now they don't have to because ORD has nonstop service. Don't miss understand what I'm saying because I know demand is there; there are even reports or rumors of some cities going daily double to meet increasing demand. However, I do wonder how much of that demand comes at the expense of cities like IAH and DFW where in the past they probably did see a lot of connecting traffic and now they are probably more reliant on O&D traffic than connecting traffic. Take MCO for example those customers had to make a connection somewhere now they have nonstop service. I don't think EK will stop or even slow down their expansion here in the U.S. I do think in certain markets there will be some rightsizing done to account for a drop in passenger who are no longer making connections instead they are choosing to fly nonstop from their home city or a city that is closer to were they live.

Just a bit of constructive feedback for you (feel free to take it or leave it) but you often have interesting points to make, but I often feel it can be tough to decipher when it is lumped into one giant text block. Breaking it down into more digestible chunks and fewer run-on sentences helps a lot

And, to your point, yes, without question, the expansion into the U.S. has undoubtedly created cannibalization problems for the ME3, particularly Emirates.

flyiguy · Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:50 pm

Wonder if EK will upgrade IAD to an A380 since they now hold via code share with B6 the us government contract for DXB service.

FLY

lancelot07 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:58 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 30):
DFW is suffering from ME3 over capacity, and IAH is suffering from the energy sector downturn due to oil prices.

But thats a long way from axing it completely.

btw, Germany also has very good public transport. EK would not need 4 destinations to cover the area or the inhabitants.
But how do you get from -let's say- San Antonio or El Paso to DFW or IAH without flying ?

toxtethogrady · Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:10 pm

IAD would seem to be a top candidate for the A380. Capital city, growing economy, necessary political connection. It comes down to whether Dulles has the gates.

winginit · Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:46 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 6):
DFW is a major hub for connecting.

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 9):
But for its passengers.

There's no interline agreement between EK and AA, so no.

adamh8297 · Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:45 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 27):
Take MCO for example those customers had to make a connection somewhere now they have nonstop service.

Best connections for MCO were IAD BOS JFK.

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 37):
IAD would seem to be a top candidate for the A380. Capital city, growing economy, necessary political connection. It comes down to whether Dulles has the gates

UA pulling out and B6 getting the IAD-DXB contract too.

RobertPhoenix · Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:54 pm

From some of the posts in this thread it sounds like Emirates is taking the A380 off the Dallas route and parking it in the desert.

However I also see this thread

Emirates Announces A380 To PRG, BHX, TPE, 2nd BCN

and this thread

EK 5th Daily A380 To Bangkok

Might not this simply be making the best use of their assets ?

DolphinAir747 · Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:02 am

Quoting winginit (Reply 38):
There's no interline agreement between EK and AA, so no.

I am sure some pax self-connect, but it's way less efficient and possibly more expensive than getting a single ticket.

B737900ER · Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:05 am

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 36):

I think you're overestimating the demand from smaller cities in Texas to Dubai and beyond.

DocLightning · Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:35 am

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 6):

DFW is a major hub for connecting.

EK has no code-share or interline agreements with any US carrier, AFAIK. Any traffic to/from DFW on EK is O&D.

alatar144 · Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:16 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
EK has no code-share or interline agreements with any US carrier, AFAIK. Any traffic to/from DFW on EK is O&D.

Emirates has successful and expansive codeshare relationships with both Jetblue and Alaska. They interline with United, Virgin America and Hawaiian. http://www.emirates.com/english/plan...nces-rules-interline-partners.aspx

Of course, all of these relationships are largely useless for connections ex DFW!!!!

FWAERJ · Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:17 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
EK has no code-share or interline agreements with any US carrier, AFAIK. Any traffic to/from DFW on EK is O&D.

EK codeshares and interlines with both B6 and AS - but neither are huge at DFW.

DTWLAX · Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:10 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 14):
DFW has a huge Indian population yes; however EY and QR both fly there as well and unlike EK have relationships with AA to better exploit their fortress hub at DFW

That has not stopped them from going 2x A380 daily at LAX starting summer. And LAX does not have as big an Indian population as DFW.
EK is going against EY, QR, SV, KL, 3x BA, 3x AF, 3x LH, 2x TK, 2x VS at LAX. And this is not counting the Transpacific carriers who also offer connections to India.

While most of the carriers at LAX cater to the huge O&D passengers, they still offer connections to India and the subcontinent. TK, SV and the ME3 are primarily connecting passengers rather than O&D.

ASA · Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:18 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 24):

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 11):
7-across J angle-flat on a 15-hour flight is disgusting

Disgusting???

Yep .... I love the across-the-globe trips on 10-across Y so much ... that the mere thought of a J-upgrade or having my work pay for the more comfortable seats and better food disgust me

But it is true - what EK peddles as J is more like the Y+ in TK 77Ws, which is unfortunately on the way out. They need to quickly change to a 6-across setting to compete. But on the same token, Y deserves a change to a 9-across plan ala TK or QR as well. But that seating plan is a dying breed now ...

lancelot07 · Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:43 am

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 42):
I think you're overestimating the demand from smaller cities in Texas to Dubai and beyond.

May well be, but i didn't say they need to go there with a fleet of A380s. I was answering to "Why do they go there at all".

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
EK has no code-share or interline agreements with any US carrier, AFAIK. Any traffic to/from DFW on EK is O&D.

It will go down in statistics as O&D, yes. But please don't tell me an interline agreement is needed to connect, all passengers have to do is claim baggage and check in once more - not exactly a huge obstacle, and none at all if you travel light.

jetblue1965 · Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:50 am

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 48):

Self connecting is a last resort. If your first flight is delayed, the connecting carrier has exactly ZERO obligation to accommodate you on any later flight. So while it's doable, it carries a large risk component.

And your "I don't check bag" scenario rarely applies to the Texas-India type of VFR traffic.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net