FSDan
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JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:24 am

The recent thread on ORD T5 operations piqued my interest in JFK's T4, which is another terminal that sees a huge variety of airlines and complicated operations to accommodate all players. I haven't been to JFK since DL moved most of their ops over to T4, so I'm interested in how things are handled now. When DL moved in, some of the international airlines moved out but many stayed. How do 25+ airlines (many with multiple daily flights) all manage to operate out of about 9-10 non-DL gates?

Specific questions:

1) Are all flights loaded and unloaded via jet bridges, or do some flights deplane directly from hardstands with passengers needing to ride buses? I know there are about 3 parking spots right near the end of concourse A, but are flights actually unloaded from those or do they just temporarily accommodate aircraft between being parked at gates?

2) Do airlines other than DL have their own assigned gates, or are they all common use? Is there a certain set of airlines that always use the B gates (from looking at pictures and satellite view on Google Maps, it seems like SA, W3, VS, KL, LX, KU, and CI are all usually over there; are there others?) vs. the A gates?
*2a) Do KL and VS share DL's gates, or do they operate out of B27, B29, and B31 along with the other airlines that use concourse B? What about DL/SkyTeam partners that aren't in JVs with DL such as WS, UX, CI, and CZ?
*2b) Does VX have sole use of gate A2, or do other airlines (particularly the ones that operate narrowbodies such as SY, BW, AV, and CM) use A2 as well?

3) Are A6 and A7 the only two A380 gates at T4? It looks like in the late evening there are 2 EK 380s and a SQ 380 that arrive or depart around the same time - are there problems if the SQ flight gets delayed?

[Edited 2016-01-05 22:30:01]
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panamair
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:53 am

Quoting FSDan (Thread starter):
1) Are all flights loaded and unloaded via jet bridges, or do some flights deplane directly from hardstands with passengers needing to ride buses?

Remote stand parking/boarding by bus does occur, particularly during the heavy summer period, but it's not a regular thing. On the B concourse side, gate B23 is used for bus boarding for example.

Quoting FSDan (Thread starter):
2) Do airlines other than SA)">DL have their own assigned gates, or are they all common use?

Pretty much common use for the other airlines though other physical limitations (e.g., SQ and EK A388s) automatically mean that certain gates are dedicated to a handful of specific flights.

Quoting FSDan (Thread starter):
Is there a certain set of airlines that always use the B gates (from looking at pictures and satellite view on Google Maps, it seems like SA, W3, VS, KL, LX, KU, and CI are all usually over there; are there others?) vs. the A gates?

LY pretty much always uses the B gates (mostly B31) due to their security set up. LX is also mostly at the B gates (B27/29/31) though I have seen them arrive at the A gates from time to time. EY, SA, AV, KU, CI, HY, PK, and CM are the other frequent B gate users.

Quoting FSDan (Thread starter):
Do KL and VS share SA)">DL's gates, or do they operate out of B27, B29, and B31 along with the other airlines that use concourse B?

KL shares SA)">DL's dedicated gates (usually KL is at B24 or B26 or B28). VS uses the A gates 99% of the time (the VS Clubhouse is also on the A concourse side) though occasionally you do see a VS flight departing out of B27/29/31.

Quoting FSDan (Thread starter):
What about SA)">DL/SkyTeam partners that aren't in JVs with SA)">DL such as WS, UX, CI, and CZ?

All over the place...WS is usually at the A gates, CI is usually on the B concourse (B27/29/31), etc.
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:48 am

Wow, FSDan beat me to it!

Another essential question for understanding T4: Which DL flights use T4 and which use T2?
 
panamair
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:19 pm

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 2):
Which DL flights use T4 and which use T2?

DL changed their flight numbering scheme more than a year ago for JFK departures - flight numbers beginning with a "4" are scheduled to depart out of T4, while those beginning with a "2" are supposed to be out of T2. Of course, there are swaps and changes from time to time due to IROPs, etc., but in general they try to follow that policy.

Other points:
- T2 cannot handle any aircraft bigger than a 763ER, so if your flight is scheduled for a 777, A330, or 764, you will be departing out of T4.
- International flights usually leave out of T4, but during the summer, you will find some transatlantic flights leaving out of T2 as well - last summer, flights to SNN, ARN, CPH, PRG, ZRH, and the second ATH were departing regularly out of T2.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:39 pm

The 380s park at the end of B. There is a hard stand for the 380/747 in between the two gates (Almost looks like the top of a star with the 3 tails). They shuffle them around as needed. I don't know if other gates can handle a 380 in a pinch.

As for tightness of gate scheduling, T4 has nothing on T1. If you want to discuss a clusterf**k, you need to start a forum on ops there.

T4 has lots of large gates, dual taxiways, lots of ramp space...everything T1 does not.

Long story short, the operation at T4 seems to work well. The operation at T1 does not.
 
FSDan
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:21 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 3):
- T2 cannot handle any aircraft bigger than a 763ER, so if your flight is scheduled for a 777, A330, or 764, you will be departing out of T4.

I just did a quick check of the summer schedule and this principle seems to hold in all cases except one - the JFK-IST flight is #272 and is scheduled to operate on the 764.
Maybe some of the flight numbers will change. I see a JFK-LAX 767 flight that is #212, and I am pretty sure all LAX and SFO flights are supposed to depart from T4...
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JetBlueCLT
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:21 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 3):

Slightly off topic, but what does IROPS stand for. I'm guessing it has to do with a maintenance problem with an a/c?
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FSDan
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:24 pm

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 6):
Slightly off topic, but what does IROPS stand for.

Irregular operations, I believe...
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jetblue1965
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:28 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
The 380s park at the end of B. There is a hard stand for the 380/747 in between the two gates (Almost looks like the top of a star with the 3 tails). They shuffle them around as needed. I don't know if other gates can handle a 380 in a pinch.

I thought all the 380s are at T4-A. What do you mean by "B" ?
 
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:31 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 7):

Great! Thanks abunch
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panamair
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:18 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
The 380s park at the end of B.

Think you meant to say "A" for the 380s.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 5):
I just did a quick check of the summer schedule and this principle seems to hold in all cases except one - the JFK-IST flight is #272 and is scheduled to operate on the 764.

It will change. Last summer, JFK-IST was DL272 for a while even though they had an A333 operating it - it was changed to DL417 before the seasonsal flight started operating in June.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):

As for tightness of gate scheduling, T4 has nothing on T1. If you want to discuss a clusterf**k,

Yup...T1 is a real mess both inside and out. The terminal is handling way more passengers and aircraft movements than it was originally built for. LX moved over there for a short period some years ago to be closer to parent LH but then moved back to T4 rather quickly as their flights were constantly delayed. LO is also moving out this year (going to T7).
 
EddieDude
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:22 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 1):
KL shares SA)">DL's dedicated gates (usually KL is at B24 or B26 or B28). VS uses the A gates 99% of the time (the VS Clubhouse is also on the A concourse side) though occasionally you do see a VS flight departing out of B27/29/31.

There are rumors AM is relocating from T1 to T4. It would make sense, if there is space, that KL, VS and AM share space with DL. Any news? Thoughts?

Quoting panamair (Reply 10):
Yup...T1 is a real mess both inside and out. The terminal is handling way more passengers and aircraft movements than it was originally built for. LX moved over there for a short period some years ago to be closer to parent LH but then moved back to T4 rather quickly as their flights were constantly delayed. LO is also moving out this year (going to T7).

I agree. It was a great terminal but it is not anymore. Security is usually nightmarish and it does feel very, very crowded. The KE lounge is great though, as is the AF one.
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:39 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 11):
There are rumors AM is relocating from T1 to T4. It would make sense, if there is space, that KL, VS and AM share space with DL. Any news? Thoughts?

I would definitely make sense for AM to move to T4. I wonder if eventually all SkyTeam airlines could/will move to T4. It would make it a lot easier for connecting pax.
 
FSDan
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:49 pm

Have there been any rumblings recently regarding the completion of the T4 A concourse expansion? When that is done, DL should be able to move the rest of their operations to T4 and close T2, which could then allow for additional expansion of T1 or T4 on the ground where terminals 2 and 3 originally stood. It would be nice if AF, AZ, AM, and KE were to move to T4 as well to allow better connections for SkyTeam airlines. Maybe the complicated ownership of T1 will prevent that, though.
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:11 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 10):
LX moved over there for a short period some years ago to be closer to parent LH but then moved back to T4 rather quickly as their flights were constantly delayed.

I remember that, it was around the fall of 2007 I think. I was departing from T1 on AF and there were a few LX A330's on the ground at one time - one of which was shoehorned in backwards between gates 5 and 7 (that's right, tail to the building) with airstairs attached and bus boarding. IIRC that setup did not last very long and was very complex operationally.
 
delimit
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:24 pm

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 12):
I would definitely make sense for AM to move to T4. I wonder if eventually all SkyTeam airlines could/will move to T4. It would make it a lot easier for connecting pax.

That won't happen. AF and KE are part owners of T1. Connections between them and Delta happen in other cities. The NYC seats are better used for O & D.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:34 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 15):

That won't happen. AF and KE are part owners of T1. Connections between them and Delta happen in other cities. The NYC seats are better used for O & D.

The same can be said about KL too, but apparently KL co-locates with DL at T4-B. I'm sure if AF wants to sell their T1 stake there's always someone willing at the right price.

A nice swap would be LX to T1 and AF to T4 - that way both sides win. AF can also retain their T1 stake while leasing out their share of assets to whoever wants to utilize it. AF can even dock their A380s over T4-A for that matter (whether there's any space at all during that slot time is a different question)
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:53 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 8):

I thought all the 380s are at T4-A. What do you mean by "B" ?

That is correct, thanks
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:31 pm

So, which T4 gates are DL's?

Somebody mentioned KL or occasionally VS parking in the DL area. Do any others do this?

Do all DLConnection flights use the spider web in T2?
 
panamair
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:59 pm

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 18):
So, which T4 gates are DL's?

DL has all of the B gates currently except for B27, B29, and B31.

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 18):
Somebody mentioned KL or occasionally VS parking in the DL area. Do any others do this?

KL is the only carrier that uses the DL gates. On the rare occasion that VS uses the B gates, it has used one of the non-DL common use gates (i.e., B27, B29, or B31).

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 18):
Do all DLConnection flights use the spider web in T2?

The 'spider web' is gone and three mainline gates have replaced it in T2 (gates C64, C65, C66).

DL Connection flights now use gates at the T4B extension (gates B42-B55). Gates B42-B55 were built for the DCI operation although mainline aircraft do sometimes use gates B42 and B43. Also, one or two of the DCI gates also have 'sterile' walkways to the Immigration areas as Delta has flights from YQB to JFK that don't have preclearance at YQB.
 
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:12 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 13):
Have there been any rumblings recently regarding the completion of the T4 A concourse expansion?

I'm fairly certain that discussions are in progress.
 
jfklucky777
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:14 pm

Gates A6 and A7 are both 380 capable and just recently a new gate was renovated to accommodate 380 operations on the B concourse. It's either gate B28 or B30. This was added in light of recent upguages by OZ followed by EY.
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:25 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 19):
DL has all of the B gates currently except for B27, B29, and B31.
Quoting panamair (Reply 19):
The 'spider web' is gone and three mainline gates have replaced it in T2 (gates C64, C65, C66).

DL Connection flights now use gates at the T4B extension (gates B42-B55). Gates B42-B55 were built for the DCI operation although mainline aircraft do sometimes use gates B42 and B43. Also, one or two of the DCI gates also have 'sterile' walkways to the Immigration areas as Delta has flights from YQB to JFK that don't have preclearance at YQB.

So, if I'm counting correctly, DL+KL have 40 gates at JFK. Not unimpressive!
 
jetblue1965
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:29 pm

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 22):

So, if I'm counting correctly, DL+KL have 40 gates at JFK. Not unimpressive!

There's also a lot of open tarmac hard stands in the old space where PanAm T3 existed. There's definitely potential to add a lot more gates if so desired.
 
panamair
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:56 pm

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 22):
So, if I'm counting correctly, DL+KL have 40 gates at JFK. Not unimpressive!

Around 26 or 27 jetbridge gates at T4 and another 10 at T2. FYI, both gates B20 and B25 at T4 are dual jetbridge gates which can be used to park two narrow-bodies at one time

Quoting jfklucky777 (Reply 21):
just recently a new gate was renovated to accommodate 380 operations on the B concourse. It's either gate B28 or B30.

Believe it's either gate B27 or B29. Gates B28 and B30 are DL gates
 
delimit
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:01 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 16):
The same can be said about KL too, but apparently KL co-locates with DL at T4-B.

KL was in 4 before they merged with AF.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 16):
I'm sure if AF wants to sell their T1 stake there's always someone willing at the right price.

I'm not sure why. They have a huge, recently renovated club space in 1 that they would have to rebuild somewhere else. What would they gain by moving? They connect very few passengers over JFK. It's an O & D market.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:28 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 25):

I'm not sure why. They have a huge, recently renovated club space in 1 that they would have to rebuild somewhere else. What would they gain by moving? They connect very few passengers over JFK. It's an O & D market.

You're underestimating it. Per PANYNJ 2014 report, the entirety of JFK is 22.8% connecting. In comparison, LGA is merely 10.8%.

For Skyteam INTL ops, I suspect that figure to be higher. DTW and ATL overflies quite a bit of the population where JFK is most suitable for connections.
 
delimit
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:38 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 26):
You're underestimating it. Per PANYNJ 2014 report, the entirety of JFK is 22.8% connecting. In comparison, LGA is merely 10.8%.

The majority of connections happening at JFK are AA to AA, B6 to B6, and DL to DL. Every seat that can be sold by AF and KL to NYC is prioritized over lower margin secondary US destinations. There are definitely some passengers who connect, but not nearly enough to prompt AF to move. You're basically suggesting they go from being homeowners to renters. It makes no financial sense. Greater passenger convenience is nice, but there's no financial incentive for them to do it.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:50 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 27):

The majority of connections happening at JFK are AA to AA, B6 to B6, and DL to DL. Every seat that can be sold by AF and KL to NYC is prioritized over lower margin secondary US destinations. There are definitely some passengers who connect, but not nearly enough to prompt AF to move. You're basically suggesting they go from being homeowners to renters. It makes no financial sense. Greater passenger convenience is nice, but there's no financial incentive for them to do it.

By that argument, KL should move back to T1 with AF then, since your argument is that connections are low margin and not worth the effort. Where KL was pre-merger is no longer relevant as the importance is to achieve synergy, which a split terminal is hardly the case.

It's also a self-fulfilling prophecy - few connect there because the setup makes the connection process a hassle and stressful. Your assumption is that pax lost is merely routed at DTW/ATL when in fact it could've been lost to another alliance.

Just look over to T8 - AA is co-locating with as many oneworld carriers as they can fit, with only major exceptions being BA, and maybe CX.
 
delimit
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:16 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 28):
By that argument, KL should move back to T1 with AF then, since your argument is that connections are low margin and not worth the effort.

T1 is packed to the gills.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 28):
It's also a self-fulfilling prophecy - few connect there because the setup makes the connection process a hassle and stressful. Your assumption is that pax lost is merely routed at DTW/ATL when in fact it could've been lost to another alliance.

Connecting traffic is less valuable than JFK bound traffic and there are only so many seats to be sold. Your assumption that AF would somehow gain enough passengers to make up for being a landlord in T1 seems a bit far fetched, given that we're talking about a fairly small area of North America that doesn't make more sense over one of the other shared AF/DL destinations . They connect passengers to JFK, not through it.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 28):
Just look over to T8 - AA is co-locating with as many oneworld carriers as they can fit, with only major exceptions being BA, and maybe CX.

They have plenty of room and for the other airlines they are moving from being renters in one terminal to being renters in a nicer terminal.
 
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:23 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 28):
It's also a self-fulfilling prophecy - few connect there because the setup makes the connection process a hassle and stressful. Your assumption is that pax lost is merely routed at DTW/ATL when in fact it could've been lost to another alliance.

Having traveled in and out of JFK a lot recently on domestic flights, and just one inbound international flight, I generally wouldn't use it for international connections, particularly vs. say ATL or DFW or DTW where everything is inside one security area, at least for outbound trips. And having alliance partners in different terminals, in some cases, doesn't make any sense at all. But if a large portion of JFK traffic being O&D, it might not make that much of a difference to the airlines.



Quoting FSDan (Reply 13):
Have there been any rumblings recently regarding the completion of the T4 A concourse expansion? When that is done, DL should be able to move the rest of their operations to T4 and close T2, which could then allow for additional expansion of T1 or T4 on the ground where terminals 2 and 3 originally stood.

Once T2 goes, there will be so much open space, hopefully not just an even larger parking lot for planes. Having all of DL in T4 would be great, but it is an awfully stretched out concourse. It seems like use of land at JFK isn't very efficient.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:57 am

Quoting delimit (Reply 25):

KL was in 4 before they merged with AF.

They have been in T4 for decades. Decades. AF left T4 when they built T1 in 1994 or so.
 
burnsie28
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:10 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 25):

KL was in 4 before they merged with AF.

Which was due of course to NW being located in 4.
 
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:22 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 28):
By that argument, KL should move back to T1 with AF then, since your argument is that connections are low margin and not worth the effort. Where KL was pre-merger is no longer relevant as the importance is to achieve synergy, which a split terminal is hardly the case.

Isn't T4 managed by Schiphol Group? If so, I would say a "package deal" would probably be the reason why KL isn't going to move to T1 (plus the fact that T1 is crowded).



[Edited 2016-01-07 10:24:57]
 
jetblue1965
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:25 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 33):

Isn't T4 (partially) owned by Schiphol Group? If so, I would say a "package deal" would probably be teh reason why KL isn't going to move to T1 (plus the fact that T1 is crowded).

Does Schiphol Group own any part of KL, or vice versa ? Do they give preferential treatment/pricing to KL outside of AMS ?
 
global2
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:22 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 3):
T2 cannot handle any aircraft bigger than a 763ER

I vividly recall departing from the Northwest Terminal (today's T2) on a 742 bound for Tokyo in 1983. I think it was Gate 4 or 5.
 
stlgph
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:49 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 28):

While T1 is crowded, if I recall being told correctly, Air France and Korean Air get priority #1 when it comes to getting gates.
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goldorak
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:31 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 31):
They have been in T4 for decades. Decades. AF left T4 when they built T1 in 1994 or so.

That was rather around 1997
 
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:12 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 3):
- T2 cannot handle any aircraft bigger than a 763ER,
Quoting Global2 (Reply 35):
I vividly recall departing from the Northwest Terminal (today's T2) on a 742 bound for Tokyo in 1983. I think it was Gate 4 or 5.

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In today's post T-1 era, I'd imagine anything larger than the 763 would have to park either at the two corners where the DL Connection gates were. Probably would not be fun to clash with the heavies in T1 during pushback.
 
global2
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:46 am

Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 38):

Thanks for the photo! There's that Northwest-Orient 747 parked at Gate 5!
 
beeweel15
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:27 am

The bottom line is T4 is a complete wreck since DL moved in. The B concourse extends to areas where you had to drive to before. The entire equipment storage area is gone, The fun you could have had before is gone especially when waiting for family or friends. DL should have fixed T3 and take down T2 and work with T1 since most of the skyteam airlines are there.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:09 am

Thats opinion though

I used Delta to MXP. I think the terminal is super nice.

DL got a terminal in a box by adding just a small extension.

Only downside is the walk...but there are plenty of walkways to help
 
delimit
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RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:38 am

Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 40):
DL should have fixed T3 and take down T2 and work with T1 since most of the skyteam airlines are there.

We're going to be hearing this from the same 5 people until the next millennium. That ship has sailed.

As someone who is flying, rather than waiting in a car for people, T4 is great. Especially the food options. My only real complaint is the security line.
 
beeweel15
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Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:35 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 41):
Only downside is the walk...but there are plenty of walkways to help

Yes cause the expansion took place where aircraft was parked and you had to drive to get there before.

Quoting delimit (Reply 42):
As someone who is flying, rather than waiting in a car for people, T4 is great.

Yes you are flying and not working there or waiting for family there so you really wont see what people are talking about especially since If you was there for the construction of the terminal from the beginning. T4 had specific expansion plans which would have expanded the terminal and there would be much less walking etc. but DL spent more money and did not follow the original expansion plan which would have saved them money.
 
delimit
Posts: 765
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:08 pm

RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:13 am

Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 43):
Yes you are flying and not working there or waiting for family there so you really wont see what people are talking about especially since If you was there for the construction of the terminal from the beginning

Right.I'm a paying customer; not their ride into the city. The passenger experience has improved enormously.

Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 43):
T4 had specific expansion plans which would have expanded the terminal and there would be much less walking etc. but DL spent more money and did not follow the original expansion plan which would have saved them money.

Plans changed. DL doesn't own the terminal.
 
DiscoverCSG
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:22 am

RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:58 pm

Somewhere upthread, it was mentioned that DL has given flights departing T2 flight numbers beginning with 2, and flights departing T4 flight numbers beginning with 4 - how very practical of them!

However, some of DL's ex-JFK flights have flight numbers beginning with other digits - is there rhyme or reason to these?

And, does the 4/2 flight number scheme also apply to inbound flights?
 
panamair
Posts: 4093
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:13 pm

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 45):
However, some of DL's ex-JFK flights have flight numbers beginning with other digits - is there rhyme or reason to these?

There aren't any. All DL or DCI-operated flights departing out of JFK have flight numbers beginning with a 2 or 4.

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 45):
And, does the 4/2 flight number scheme also apply to inbound flights?

No, it doesn't apply to inbounds. International flights all go to T4 since there aren't any FIS facilities so that helps to partially eliminate the need for the 2/4 differentiation.
 
DiscoverCSG
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:22 am

RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:20 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 46):
There aren't any. All DL or DCI-operated flights departing out of JFK have flight numbers beginning with a 2 or 4.

A quick search for June 6 turns up:

DL1359 900 AUS 319
DL1312 1830 DEN 320
DL1729 1925 TPA 717
DL741 1115 ATL 738
DL1870 1845 SEA 752
DL1443 1700 SFO 763
DL5598 1315 PHL CR2
DL5513 1500 SYR CR7
DL3926 1500 YQB ER4
DL740 1130 MIA M88

and a number of other JFK departures whose flight numbers do not begin with 4 or 2.

[Edited 2016-01-11 06:21:20]
 
panamair
Posts: 4093
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:45 pm

Quoting DiscoverCSG (Reply 47):
A quick search for June 6 turns up:

DL1359 900 AUS 319
DL1312 1830 DEN 320
DL1729 1925 TPA 717
DL741 1115 ATL 738
DL1870 1845 SEA 752
DL1443 1700 SFO 763
DL5598 1315 PHL CR2
DL5513 1500 SYR CR7
DL3926 1500 YQB ER4
DL740 1130 MIA M88

Quite likely to change before then with the summer schedule is finalized. If you look at these destinations/flights, they all have flight numbers starting with 2 or 4 today through the end of May..
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: JFK Terminal 4 Operations

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:13 am

Can all the gates in T2 fit a 763?

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