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GSTBA
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Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:59 pm

A passenger on yesterday's BA105 flight from LHR-DXB became disruptive during the flight and had to be restrained after assaulting members of the crew and shouting that he had a bomb.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...g-flight-from-London-to-Dubai.html

The
 
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winterlight
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:20 pm

It seems I should know who Steve Penk is. Never heard of him or his daughter!
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
bennett123
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:30 pm

Hope they take good care of him in DXB.
 
richierich
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:58 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 1):
t seems I should know who Steve Penk is. Never heard of him or his daughter!

Virgin Radio became Absolute Radio - I used to like streaming this channel but they cut off foreign IP addresses (boo) - and Steve Penk used to be the breakfast/morning DJ there. In fact, I believe he may have replaced Chris Evans, who is now getting some international fame thanks to Top Gear.
None shall pass!!!!
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:23 am

Quoting winterlight (Reply 1):
Hope they take good care of him in DXB.

The airlines' version of extraordinary rendition.  
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euroflyer
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:40 am

Happens everyday, it's quite routine to have pax go ballistic and shouting threats.

The most annoying stuff for me is that the journalist didn't even take a few seconds to pick the correct aircraft type for the photo. I'm almost certain that should have a T7 in their database !
Born to fly !
 
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lapper
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:20 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 3):

Get yourself the Radioplayer app on iOS, i use it to listen to home radio when I'm travelling.
 
georgiaame
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:26 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 2):
Hope they take good care of him in DXB.

Wonder why I think not.

The smuck is lucky he wasn't flying El Al. The rest of us are unlucky that he wasn't.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
ytz
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:50 pm

More interesting are the facts that the plane didn't divert and that EK seems to still be flying over Iran despite the downgraded relations between the UAE and Iran.
 
seat64k
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:53 pm

That's why I always carry a small bottle of chloroform and a rag in my carry-on  
 
Armodeen
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:43 pm

Quoting seat64k (Reply 9):


That's why I always carry a small bottle of chloroform and a rag in my carry-on

Under 100ml one hopes  
 
Atlanta
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:35 pm

Wow this is a good way to not travel by air again. I do appreciate the last bit at the end of the article, "The flight landed in Dubai as normal and the incident was handed over to police. It is not known what happened to the passenger." I bet it wasn't a post-arrival shower in the lounge!

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AR385
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:08 pm

People that in these times shout that onboard at 39,000 ft. ought to be shot dead the moment they utter those words by air marshalls, no questions asked (Do BA carry Air Marshalls?)
 
richierich
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:20 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 12):






People that in these times shout that onboard at 39,000 ft. ought to be shot dead the moment they utter those words by air marshalls, no questions asked (Do BA carry Air Marshalls?)

I DEFINITELY do not want to live in a world where that happens!
I'll take diverting or landing safely at the destination any day, and let the folks on the ground deal with these people. I would guess that the vast majority of people who do this are mentally ill and/or on some sort of medication (or intoxicated.) There are many people who fly who suffer anxiety and have to take something before boarding...it does not always go well. With that said, it is extremely frightening and dangerous to the crew and other passengers that have to deal with these situations.
None shall pass!!!!
 
AR385
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:33 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 13):
I DEFINITELY do not want to live in a world where that happens!

I would agree with you in another time, a couple of years ago, maybe even a year ago. These days, on a flight heading to the ME, I do not want to take the risk that a person shouting "I have a bomb" is just upset or drunk. The safest thing to do is to assume that person is speaking the truth and neutralize. If the person is shouting some other incoherence, then sure, the better choice is just to restrain them and try to calm them. But once "I have a bomb" phrase has been spoken, it´s a whole different ball game.

The Paris police today shot dead a guy approaching them with a FAKE bomb. Should they have waited until he was much nearer and nothing happened? No. Too bad the guy was faking and probably was someone with "mental issues".

I believe same criteria THESE DAYS and on a flight from the EU to the ME should be applied.
 
TheCommodore
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:58 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
The safest thing to do is to assume that person is speaking the truth and neutralize.

Wait a minute, are you actually calling for idiots to be shot it mid air, whilst the plane is pressurised and flying at high altitude ?

Now Ive heard it all if that is the case      

Quoting richierich (Reply 13):
I'll take diverting or landing safely at the destination any day, and let the folks on the ground deal with these people.

Much better idea than to have people firing bullets around inside a plane a altitude and assassinate some obviously mentally disturbed person
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
lancelot07
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:48 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 15):
Wait a minute, are you actually calling for idiots to be shot it mid air, whilst the plane is pressurised and flying at high altitude ?

You could use non-lethal bullets that don't damage the pressure vessel.
And you can't stop really people from comitting suicide using extravagant methods. He might have had a bomb, nobody knows ex-ante. Such people are candidates for the Darwin-award, anyway.
 
ScottishDavie
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:15 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 12):
People that in these times shout that onboard at 39,000 ft. ought to be shot dead the moment they utter those words by air marshalls, no questions asked (Do BA carry Air Marshalls?)

I've never heard of BA using air marshalls and if they do they keep very quiet about it. I cannot imagine any circumstances under which a British citizen would be given the right to shoot somebody dead "no questions asked".
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:08 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 16):

You could use non-lethal bullets that don't damage the pressure vessel.
And you can't stop really people from comitting suicide using extravagant methods. He might have had a bomb, nobody knows ex-ante. Such people are candidates for the Darwin-award, anyway.

these bullets are still lethal, but the break apart on hitting something hard and turn into dust (they are made from compressed metal powder and a resin). Or they can use beanbags, small bullet shaped bags made of polyamide filled with shot.

And in any case, a simple bullet hole will not cause an wexplosive decompression. This is a Hollywood myth.

Jan
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bennett123
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:49 pm

You cannot shot all the idiots.

Parliament would be empty  
 
AR385
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:13 pm

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 17):
I cannot imagine any circumstances under which a British citizen would be given the right to shoot somebody dead "no questions asked".

Here you go, a few cases.


http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/25/july7.uksecurity5
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Mark_Duggan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Anthony_Grainger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azelle_Rodney

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
And in any case, a simple bullet hole will not cause an wexplosive decompression. This is a Hollywood myth.

Exactly. Poor Hollywood myth.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:21 pm

Perhaps there is a case for airlines to carry a Taser in the event, with crew trained in proper usage, just a thought.
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RDUDDJI
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:49 pm

Unfortunately, I fear most of the time these jackarses don't get prosecuted... It's just too difficult to deal with all the jurisdictions and to have witnesses (crew, pax) travel back to XXX to testify. About the worst they'll get is a night in the clink to sober up.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
Speedbird2155
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:47 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 20):
Here you go, a few cases.

Not sure what you are trying to imply by those cases, but what they do show is that in the UK any cases of an officer discharging a weapon is investigated. No matter what anyone thinks of any of these cases, the fact is that the vast majority of firearm officers in the UK act responsibly and we should not be looking to going down the route of "no questions asked" and certainly has no place on any UK airline.
 
ScottishDavie
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:03 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 20):
Here you go, a few cases.

I have no idea what you're trying to say but I'm well aware of all these cases, particularly de Menezes, and they simply prove my point. In Britain any law enforcement officer who shoots somebody dead will be subject to a rigorous investigation and required to justify his/her actions to the last degree. Any failure is likely to result in criminal proceedings. Although no individual officer was charged in the de Menezes case the Metropolitan Police were successfully prosecuted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

Any British law enforcement officer who shoots somebody dead "no questions asked" is likely to face a charge of murder.
 
AR385
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:04 pm

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 23):
Not sure what you are trying to imply by those cases

I was responding to this:

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 17):
I cannot imagine any circumstances under which a British citizen would be given the right to shoot somebody dead "no questions asked".

The cases I presented are cases where the UK police, particularly in the de Menezes case, were trigger happy, shot first and asked questions later and even though sure, there were "investigations" the results of those investigations were at least questionable. That is what I was trying to imply. Of course, the vast majority of firearm officers in the UK act responsibly, I have no doubt. But from there to "I can´t imagine any circumstances..." is a stretch. As is in every country.

Now as far as my position of shooting someone on board a plane THESE DAYS, that yells "I have a bomb", I believe, and it is my opinion that shooting them dead is the right course of action. Others may have a different opinion and that is all right. I do, however, think that the risk of assuming the person doing such is just "mentally confused" is nowadays unacceptable to take. May have been even a year ago. Not anymore.
 
Lofty
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:20 pm

In the days of High jacking etc if someone says they have a bomb you have the option of talking them down as many would not want to kill themselves. These days a head shot will be your only option and had a sky marshal been on the flight they would have taken the shot believing they would be protecting the hundreds of lives on the flight and possible many more on the ground.

When I was a child I said as my bag was searched entering Windsor castle I had a bomb in it, I become aware very quickly I was surrounded.
 
GDB
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:44 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 25):

The cases I presented are cases where the UK police, particularly in the de Menezes case, were trigger happy,

No they were not, they had been told by their commanders, on a chaotic day after three more (three weeks after 7/7) when a bunch of copycats tried to emulate that attack and were being hunted, that the subject being followed was believed to be one of those suicide bombers entering the London underground. They were ordered to stop that threat and prevent another carnage on a train.
The firearms officers did not follow Mr d Menezes.
They did not wake up that morning thinking 'I should go shoot some man - albeit through mistaken identity - on a train'.

Duggan is less clear cut, he went from 'a loving son and father with no links to crime and gangs', via 'he may have hung around with the wrong types', then 'he was no angel'.
He was targeted in an operation and a realistic replica firearm was found at the scene, the controversy being around did he throw it from the car he was in and did the armed officers see this. If they did and shot him anyway that is potentially a murder charge.

It is unlikely that armed officers are on BA flights, in any case even if there was then shooting this pax would be being 'trigger happy'.
Quite apart from the risks to the aircraft/pax/crew.
 
Lofty
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:01 pm

With any shooting the officers have seconds to make a choice and a life time to live with that choice.
 
coolian2
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:11 pm

I would rather take my chances of being blown out of the sky (highly unlikely) than sit in a cabin with bullets zing ingredients around, at what is almost certainly a false alarm.
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vv701
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:47 pm

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 17):
I cannot imagine any circumstances under which a British citizen would be given the right to shoot somebody dead "no questions asked".
Quoting AR385 (Reply 20):
Here you go, a few cases

First all the instances quoted were deaths resulting from the use of firearms by police. In one case the policeman responsible was tried for murder and acquitted. In all the other cases very many questions were asked. Each case was investigated by the Independent Police Complaints Authority. Each death was subject at a minimum to a Coroner's Court hearing. In both these investigations many questions were asked and they were asked by appropriately qualified individuals.

Perhaps more relevantly the cases quoted occurred over a relatively long period, two dating back to 2005. One of those, the shooting of Jean Charles de Menzes, involved a tragic mistake of identity. He was mistaken for an individual, Hussain Osman, who lived in the same apartment block and was suspected of being an active member of the terrorist group responsible for the 52 deaths in the London 7/7 atrocity.

The chances of there being an Air Marshall on any British airliner are zero. The British culture is very different in this area than that in many other countries. Ordinary British police do not carry firearms as they do in most other countries. Nevertheless members of Police Armed Response Units - their activities are clear from this title - do carry firearms. However these weapons are rarely used. The latest published data says that the British police used firearms on just two occasions in the year ending 31 March 2014 and on six occasions or less in each of the previous five years. Source:

http://www.gov.uk/government/publica...inancial-year-ending-31-march-2014

Compare this data for a country with a population of 62 million with that for the NYPD who police 8.5 million residents. NYPD are rightly proud in reporting a record low of 79 occasions on which firearms were used by their officers in 2014. This was a decline from 81 in 2013. Source:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...d-police-gunfire-article-1.2381954

Another relevant piece of data is total firearm related deaths per 100,000 population per year. The figure for the UK is 0.23 (2011), France 2.83 (2012), USA 10.64 (2012), Mexico 15.37, Jamaica 30.72, Venezuela 50.90 and Honduras 67.18. Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

To me the above identifies the cultural differences between countries where Air Marshalls are accepted or likely to be accepted and the UK where they are most unlikely to be accepted at any time in the foreseeable future.
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:38 pm

It's lucky that he didn't say that he had two bombs or he'd be in twice as much trouble.
 
Flaps
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RE: Pax Screams 'I Have A Bomb' On BA Flight

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:52 pm

Shooting of anything in a crowded cabin of an airliner is a bad idea and should be avoided if at all possible under any circumstances. You're as likely to hit innocent bystanders, crew members or aircraft equipment as you are your intended target. A physical take down, a very sound and thorough beating followed by tight restraints is a better (though not foolproof) response to this type of behavior.

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