A lot of PHL, ORD, SFO, MCO. What was dropped????

http://m.digitaljournal.com/pr/2794638

PHL-MSP & ATL were dropped. PHL-RSW ends in April

PHL-CLT, IAH, ORD come back

PHL-IND, CLE, CVG, BNA, MKE, MSY, AUS, RDU, MCI, UST added. All less than daily.

[Edited 2016-01-07 05:40:57]

If I've read that correctly, no new cities?

I'm curious how they calculated the average industry fare for UST...being that they're the only airline serving the airport at the moment.

DTW-PHX is an interesting choice...

Lots of adds for CLE with F9 serving 14 destinations: SEA, PDX, LAS, SFO, LAX, PHX, DEN, RDU, ATL, CUN, PHL, MCO, RSW, TPA.

They're just prepping for the NK merger  

Quoting FLIHGH (Reply 3):

Doesn't it seem like the fares are higher than before? No more $9 fares. Why?

Quoting flyDTW1992 (Reply 4):

Didn't NK also add that? More overlap...

No mention of the days of service:

ATL-MEM
Service starts...4/14/2016
Ave fare...$243
New fare... $59
Intro fare.. $39
Savings...76%
The Works fare... $108

With all of F9's route volatility, who knows? Give them credit for being bold and aggressive.


CVG-LAX and CVG-SFO. Big adds for the airport, and I expect them to sell. Always thought there was potential for UA/AA on these routes (with PIT and IND seeing west coast service).... Good for CVG to get some new adds just days after F9 had cancelled some routes.

CVG-PHL and CVG-IAH, who knows? Feels more like throwing darts at the board. Routes like IAD and DFW were cancelled, and never felt right with the frequencies.

[Edited 2016-01-07 05:55:45]

Quoting enilria (Reply 7): Didn't NK also add that? More overlap...

I don't believe so, but I could be mistaken. Already has DL, AA, and WN though. Should be interesting to see the pricing impact.

A couple interesting adds. But what is more curious is a lot of the routes are less than daily. From the past couple of extensions I thought they would continue to just add daily routes.

CVG-SFO great add only DL right now
CVG-LAX same as above
IND-PHL great to see competition on this route, but I would have preferred TTN again. Loved that flight

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 5): Lots of adds for CLE with F9 serving 14 destinations: SEA, PDX, LAS, SFO, LAX, PHX, DEN, RDU, ATL, CUN, PHL, MCO, RSW, TPA.

Agreed. I hope the new CLE routes work. Becoming quite the focus city now.

So does this mean from RDU, F9 will serve ATL, MCO, PHL, TTN, ORD, DEN, CLE? That's quite an impressive route map!

Wow that's quite an operation out of PHX now... SEA/PDX/SFO/DEN/SLC/CVG/CLE/DTW/ATL. Still waiting for NK or F9 to add LAS or SAN.

Quoting enilria (Reply 7): Doesn't it seem like the fares are higher than before? No more $9 fares. Why?

Probably got too much angry backlash from it -- it was very limited (a handful of dates offering one seat at that price).

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 5): Lots of adds for CLE with F9 serving 14 destinations: SEA, PDX, LAS, SFO, LAX, PHX, DEN, RDU, ATL, CUN, PHL, MCO, RSW, TPA.

Will likely lead to further UA reductions. Yes, it's a slow travel season, but some flights like CLE-LAS have been awfully empty lately (sans the Holiday period).

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 8): No mention of the days of service: ATL-MEM Service starts...4/14/2016 Ave fare...$243 New fare... $59 Intro fare.. $39 Savings...76% The Works fare... $108

No mention of the days of service, or frequency of service, and that's a problem MEM-ATL because that's a business market, not a leisure market. It's readily drivable for people who want cheap, and DL is offering ten flights today for people who need quick - and all mainline at that.

Looks like a lot of good adds. I wish they would start flights to PIT and start more flights to the Caribbean, Central and South America.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 1): PHL-IND, CLE, CVG, BNA, MKE, MSY, AUS, RDU, MCI, UST added. All less than daily.

Wonder how or if this will affect the TTN operation. Seems odd they're "focusing" on both it seems.

I really don't get F9. I only follow the Midwest...ie, OMA, MCI, DSM, CID etc so can't speak about other cities. They make OMA-DEN daily in January, the lowest demand month for the market, then comes March and it goes down to 6x weekly, then in June, by far the strongest month from Omaha with the College World Series in town, average loads on all OMA flights that month are around 95%, they go down to only 4x weekly.

Analyzing the 4x weekly in June, the flights are on M,W,F,Sa, 730pm departure from OMA. For evening flights, the highest prices are found on Thursday and Sunday evenings, both days they are not flying this route. Tuesdays and Saturday evenings are by far the lowest demand times on OMA-DEN, and the operate a flight at both times. Seriously?

It is like they are just setting this city pair up to fail by flying exactly opposite of where demand dictates.

If it were me and Frontier was set on flying the OMA-DEN flight in the evening (I would change this to the morning with a RON in OMA), I would fly June daily, back down to 3x weekly in January with flights on Sunday, Thursday and Friday, then vary between 4x weekly and daily the rest of the year.

In addition, the busiest days of the year from OMA is when Berkshire Hathaway annual shareholders meeting is. Every flight into OMA on Thursday and Friday April 28th and 29th are 100% full, can't even purchase a ticket on any airline a week in advance, with absolute crazy prices charged. This is true leaving OMA on Sunday May 1st too.
For example, United is charging right now $1,500 roundtrip ORD-OMA, $1,000 DEN OMA, AS is $1100 SEA-OMA etc etc for that weekend. Point is, Frontier isn't even flying OMA-DEN on that Sunday last year or this year! They could get $400 per seat, every seat on the plane on the OMA-DEN flight on Sunday. You can't tell me they will get that yield on any other flight in the the nation on that particular day.

I just don't understand why they don't customize each individual city to the respective demand.

http://worldairlinenews.com/2016/01/...ier-airlines-to-add-42-new-routes/
gives you the days of service for each route
at a glance it seems mostly 3x-4x weekly, Tue Thur Sat/Sun for 3x weekly, Mon Wed Fri Sun/Sat for 4x weekly

[Edited 2016-01-07 07:18:10]

F9 seems to just be adding back most of their routes they previously dropped at CLE. The last time they added routes en masse they were up to 17 destinations, then slowly paired it back to, what, 9? I think only PHL and PDX are new.

It amazes me that the 6th largest CSA in the U.S. (BOS) has no service by F9 and hasn't for years. Surely they could make BOS-CLE, BOS-PHL, BOS-DEN work?

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 5): Lots of adds for CLE with F9 serving 14 destinations: SEA, PDX, LAS, SFO, LAX, PHX, DEN, RDU, ATL, CUN, PHL, MCO, RSW, TPA.

I don't see where F9 is or will be offering SEA-CLE nonstop. What's your source?

BNA getting some love. Wonder what WN will do to keep its place in the marketplace strong?

Happy to see the MSY adds just from the perspective of ULCC service in the MCO and PHL markets, which will help keep fares in check somewhat. Frankly I'm surprised F9 added these instead of NK.

Quoting Lexy (Reply 23): BNA getting some love. Wonder what WN will do to keep its place in the marketplace strong?

It's so little capacity, that I'm not sure why they'd bother to do anything. Certainly, F9 is not competitive for business travelers in any market ex-BNA.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 22): I don't see where F9 is or will be offering SEA-CLE nonstop. What's your source?

Nonstop CLE-SEA flights are available for purchase on Frontier's website. The service isn't new as this will be the 3rd year F9 has offered seasonal nonstop CLE-SEA.

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 26): Nonstop CLE-SEA flights are available for purchase on Frontier's website. The service isn't new as this will be the 3rd year F9 has offered seasonal nonstop CLE-SEA.

Seasonal was the keyword. That's why I couldn't find it. Thanks!

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 22):

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/inde...rontier_airlines_announces_ma.html

It's in the article. CLE-SEA is resuming this summer

Quoting compensateme (Reply 14): Will likely lead to further UA reductions. Yes, it's a slow travel season, but some flights like CLE-LAS have been awfully empty lately (sans the Holiday period).

Lots of ULCC competition in a focus city yet UA still flies an "empty" CLE-LAS over IAD-South Florida. But the IAD hub isn't broken.  

-- izbtm

Just for fun:

Less Denver means more flights elsewhere

Quoting joeljack (Reply 18): I just don't understand why they don't customize each individual city to the respective demand.

They're probably customizing each individual city with respect to relative respective demand. It may be OMA's big day but they probably figure those aircraft are better used elsewhere during June. Would you rather have College World Series traffic, small in the grand scheme of the world, or mop up families' summer vacation travel spend? Frontier's probably banking on winter ski traffic January through March as the best use of an airplane, then putting that airplane elsewhere during peak summer travel.

Quoting lakeeffect (Reply 26): the marketplace strong? It's so little capacity, that I'm not sure why they'd bother to do anything. Certainly, F9 is not competitive for business travelers in any market ex-BNA.

Good point. WN seems to hold BNA back and it seems other airlines are starting to pick away at service (so to speak).

Quoting Lexy (Reply 32): WN seems to hold BNA back and it seems other airlines are starting to pick away at service (so to speak).

I'm not sure what WN isn't flying that they should be. I'd like to have a second daily PIT and MKE, MSP and PDX might be interesting, but it's hard for me to complain too much.

Nice additions for PDX. New PDX-PHX/ORD/CLE.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33): I'm not sure what WN isn't flying that they should be. I'd like to have a second daily PIT and MKE, MSP and PDX might be interesting, but it's hard for me to complain too much.

Im surprised WN didn't announce PDX-BNA(not currently served nonstop) in their most recent schedule extension. Instead they announced PDX-STL, a market AS already operates. I'd expect WN to announce this route next.

Thank God another MSP-CHI carrier! I am sure that was desperately needed ,lol.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 15): No mention of the days of service, or frequency of service, and that's a problem MEM-ATL because that's a business market, not a leisure market. It's readily drivable for people who want cheap, and DL is offering ten flights today for people who need quick - and all mainline at that.

Found it:

Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday departing Memphis at 12:05 p.m.

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 34): Im surprised WN didn't announce PDX-BNA(not currently served nonstop) in their most recent schedule extension. Instead they announced PDX-STL, a market AS already operates. I'd expect WN to announce this route next.

BNA has no competition, but it's also ~300 miles longer and duplicates a lot of the connecting opportunities offered by STL.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 35):

Yeah, just what we needed.  

So MSP-ORD has DL, UA, AA, NK, and now F9. MSP-MDW has DL and WN. Is there enough room for all of this?

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 34): I'm not sure what WN isn't flying that they should be. I'd like to have a second daily PIT and MKE, MSP and PDX might be interesting, but it's hard for me to complain too much.

We are a transfer station, not strictly O&D. You should see where a lot of transfers go from here. They are really missing out.

For what it's worth, STL is an awful airport. Why they are the focus of attention is beyond me. Just my opinion.

[Edited 2016-01-07 09:47:53]

Quoting Lexy (Reply 39): For what it's worth, STL is an awful airport. Why they are the focus of attention is beyond me. Just my opinion.

What's wrong with the WN connecting experience at STL? Most of the problems with STL relate to the Main Terminal and to various O&D-related issues (traffic circulation, connection between Metrolink and the East Terminal, etc.).

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 15): No mention of the days of service, or frequency of service, and that's a problem MEM-ATL because that's a business market, not a leisure market.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 25): It's so little capacity, that I'm not sure why they'd bother to do anything. Certainly, F9 is not competitive for business travelers in any market ex-BNA.

The Frontier passenger base is all leisure/VFR. Some business pax may fly with them by choice, perhaps because of price, but the airline doesn't schedule to that market.

Here's the Frontier press release, with the full list of new service and the various fares:

http://www.flyfrontier.com/news/post...w-routes-throughout-united-states/

mariner

[Edited 2016-01-07 10:22:10]

Quoting mariner (Reply 41): Some business pax may fly with them by choice, perhaps because of price, but the airline doesn't schedule to that market.

I know. With the focus so different (at least in BNA), I'm not sure that WN needs to respond.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 42): I know. With the focus so different (at least in BNA), I'm not sure that WN needs to respond.

That's the point, Southwest doesn't really need to respond - nor do any of the major, since Frontier is blatantly not targeting the business market, their bread-and-butter.

Some may, but less than daily is a tougher thing to combat, in the sense of - "why bother?"

mariner

[Edited 2016-01-07 10:37:42]

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 21): It amazes me that the 6th largest CSA in the U.S. (BOS) has no service by F9 and hasn't for years. Surely they could make BOS-CLE, BOS-PHL, BOS-DEN work?

Did F9 previously serve BOS? For some reason I could swear I've seen the animals on the tail there.

Quoting af773atmsp (Reply 38): So MSP-ORD has DL, UA, AA, NK, and now F9. MSP-MDW has DL and WN. Is there enough room for all of this?

DL, UA, and AA all benefit from large FF bases on both ends but I see fares quickly dropping and F9 ending this.

Atlanta

Quoting Atlanta (Reply 44): Did F9 previously serve BOS? For some reason I could swear I've seen the animals on the tail there.

Years ago, but there were problems with the Boston airport authority that left a bitter taste in F9's mouth.

New England is a gap in the F9 system. I do not think they are in a rush to return there, other than perhaps a summer seasonalin the future. B6 has made their niche there, and is very successful with it.

Frontier 14

I count a total of 3 of the 42 routes have NK as direct competition. With these additions they are also eliminating 1 route where they previously competed with NK. They appear, to me, to be staying away from each other.

tortugamon

Quoting rockyracoon (Reply 9): CVG-PHL and CVG-IAH, who knows? Feels more like throwing darts at the board. Routes like IAD and DFW were cancelled, and never felt right with the frequencies.

CVG-DFW is coming back, along with CVG-PHX.

Quoting mcg (Reply 47): So slightly off topic but, any indications or rumor about DEN - MSO? Perhaps the dickie birds may have chirped a bit.

DEN-MSO comes back - 4 x weekly - beginning of May.

mariner

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 45):

http://www.boston.com/travel/blog/2012/04/frontier_to_qui.html

I suppose I should've googled first and asked later, nevertheless do you have any idea what the issues with Massport was/were? And MCI seems like an odd choice, I would've thought it would be DEN.

Atlanta