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UA444
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Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:52 am

Aersale a few years ago bought all the SV MD-90s and ferried them back to the U.S. With hopes of finding them a home. I haven't seen any update on them. I know they had the MD-11 cockpit but I had heard with DL updating their MD-80s and 90s the SV -90s might be viable.
 
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n901wa
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:17 am

Last I saw one of them sitting at ROW in New Mexico. Not sure if they are still there in 1 piece.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:22 am

The DL MD-88/90 flat plate cockpit upgrade has been cancelled. These planes are (hopefully) parts and nothing more.

http://presscenter.innovative-ss.com...ermination-contract-md8890-cockpit
 
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aadc10137
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:34 am

The majority of them are out in Roswell, NM.


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UA444
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:15 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 2):

The DL MD-88/90 flat plate cockpit upgrade has been cancelled. These planes are (hopefully) parts and nothing more.

The contract with the original manufacturer was cancelled due to delays but I've seen nothing that says DL isn't going to have some other company contract with. And why are you gleeful they are parts and nothing more?
 
dl757md
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:53 pm

DL was not interested in the airframes. They did evaluate the engines and ended up purchasing a few engines only.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
PGNCS
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:13 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 4):
The contract with the original manufacturer was cancelled due to delays but I've seen nothing that says DL isn't going to have some other company contract with.

Have you seen something that says DL has committed to a flat plate display mod with another company?

Quoting UA444 (Reply 4):
And why are you gleeful they are parts and nothing more?

I have a long experience with the DC-9 family spanning nearly 30 years and have flown almost all variants of the plane except the DC-9-20, B-717, and the MD-87. While generally a fan of the family and Douglas aircraft, without question the MD-90 was my least favorite.


[Edited for clarity.]

[Edited 2016-01-09 10:15:29]
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:53 pm

They would have fit right into Delta's fleet now that they have the MD-95 as well, with the same cockpit as the Saudi MD-90s.
 
Flaps
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:56 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 6):
without question the MD-90 was my least favorite.

Why? I'm not challenging you, just curious.
 
B757Forever
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:08 pm

Quoting dl757md (Reply 5):

DL was not interested in the airframes. They did evaluate the engines and ended up purchasing a few engines only.

DL also picked up most of the thrust reversers and a lot of the LRUs (VSCF control boxes, flight guidance boxes etc).
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
DualQual
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:12 pm

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 7):

How? The 717 is flown as a separate category from the 88/90
There's no known cure for stupid
 
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Polot
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:15 pm

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 7):
They would have fit right into Delta's fleet now that they have the MD-95 as well, with the same cockpit as the Saudi MD-90s.

I could be wrong, but I believe at Delta the 717 use a different pilot group than the MD90/MD80, which use the same. In other words a DL pilot may fly the MD-90 one leg then the very next fly the MD-80, but never touches the 717 and conversely the 717 pilots never touch the MD90/MD80.
 
B757Forever
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:07 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 11):
I could be wrong, but I believe at Delta the 717 use a different pilot group than the MD90/MD80, which use the same. In other words a DL pilot may fly the MD-90 one leg then the very next fly the MD-80, but never touches the 717 and conversely the 717 pilots never touch the MD90/MD80.

That is my understanding as well. Same as when the DC-9 was still in the fleet, it was a separate pilot group.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
777way
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:11 pm

Off topic but just one 747 left in SV passenger fleet.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:45 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 11):

The point is that the Saudi aircraft have the 717 cockpit.

Quoting DualQual (Reply 10):

So what? The 757 is a different category than the 767. You just get paid more for flying flights on one type than the other. You could fly a 757 one way and then fly back in a 767 and get paid more for the return flight.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
rbavfan
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:11 pm

Delta Bought them from Saudia.
 
B757Forever
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:54 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 15):
Delta Bought them from Saudia.

As far as I know, DL didn't buy any of them.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...5-of-saudi-arabians-md-90s-370651/
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
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Polot
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:15 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 14):
The point is that the Saudi aircraft have the 717 cockpit.

My point was the way DL segregates the pilots it doesn't matter if the 717 has the same cockpit, the MD90 and 717 are effectively operated like they are completely different planes from a pilot staffing prospective.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 14):
So what? The 757 is a different category than the 767. You just get paid more for flying flights on one type than the other. You could fly a 757 one way and then fly back in a 767 and get paid more for the return flight.

Again they have different pilot groups. That is different than having different pay scales. All MD90/MD80s pilots come from one group, and all 717 pilots come from another. There is no mixing between groups based on day or trip, you belong in one group until you eventually move over into another pilot group.

That means, from an operations standpoint, the MD90 and 717 fleets are completely separate type from a pilots standpoint, no matter the fact that they may have the same type rating/cockpit. So to add Saudia's MD90s means either training all the MD90/MD80 guys on the 717 cockpit (one of the reasons why DL didn't want the planes to begin with), or have a small subfleet of MD90s that are crewed by completely different pilots than all the others.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:49 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 8):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 6):without question the MD-90 was my least favorite.
Why? I'm not challenging you, just curious.

Fair question. Bear in mind that my experience with this aircraft spanned quite a few years and several operators, and of course my opinions are just that (though they are informed by firsthand experience). I think the DC-9 is better to hand fly than any of the later MD-80/90 series with great control harmony. I think the MD-90 has very vague pitch feel at low speeds with its powered elevator. That's a personal preference. I did like some things about the 90 better (brakes and reversers come to mind), so it's not like I detested it. When heavy the 90 can't climb very high which tends to put you into more weather, which stinks especially in the summer. I absolutely hated the electrical system redesign on the 90. I had more issues with that and random other glitches than on any other variant of the DC-9 or MD-80 I flew. The DC-9 (and MD-80) was pretty bulletproof: it just kept going; the 90 was more finicky with some of it's "improved" systems being nothing of the sort (electrical, ice FOD, etc.)

I'm really not ragging on the 90 (my initial offhand comment "hopefully" was probably too strong as I don't honestly have a horse in that race): it's an OK plane but not one of the greats in my experience; I wasn't trying to be snarky. I really didn't hate any of the Douglas-built aircraft I flew (unlike the 737), but I don't really miss the MD-90 either. Give me my Airbus any day.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:43 am

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 7):

The MD-88 & MD-90 base models had very similar, but slightly different cockpits. They can be certified easily to fly both. The Saudia MD-90s had a new cockpit design that was offered & they were the only one to take it due to cominolity issues with other mixed MD80/90 fleets. The 717 had a farther refined cockpit. If you look at the pics of the MD80, MD90, Saudia MD-90 & 717 you ca see the differences.

Suadia MD-90 cockpit has 6 CRT's in same layout a MD-11. Not sure what the differences are in display programming for the 717 but was told its substantially different. The MD-90 would need program upgrades to match 717. B717 / MD-90 Commonality (by Diz Dec 28 2002 in Tech Ops) this explains it better in posting number 6.

[Edited 2016-01-09 17:47:29]

[Edited 2016-01-09 17:56:44]

[Edited 2016-01-09 17:58:10]
 
rbavfan
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:51 am

Delta wanted the cockpit upgrades so MD-88 & MD-90 groups could merge, parts count could be reduced, RPN & other advanced features. Would have been nice if Boeing had just done it.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:17 am

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 20):
Delta wanted the cockpit upgrades so MD-88 & MD-90 groups could merge

Except the MD-88 and MD-90 pilots are already in the same category and fly both aircraft interchangeably. See polot's helpful posts.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:59 am

Quoting polot (Reply 17):
Again they have different pilot groups. That is different than having different pay scales. All MD90/MD80s pilots come from one group, and all 717 pilots come from another. There is no mixing between groups based on day or trip, you belong in one group until you eventually move over into another pilot group.

I am well aware of that. My point is that if Delta actually wanted to there is no reason that they couldn't have one work group on M88/M90 and the other on the 717 and hypothetical M90B fleet. It would be operationally challenging with regards to aircraft substitution, but just because it isn't done now doesn't mean that it is impossible.

Either way, Delta don't want them so it is nothing more than an exercise in hypotheticals.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Confuscius
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:14 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 4):
The contract with the original manufacturer was cancelled due to delays...

Here's an in depth article from Aviation Week:

http://aviationweek.com/mro/could-de...illing-effect-aftermarket-cockpits
Ain't I a stinker?
 
DualQual
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RE: Where Are The Saudi MD-90s?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:27 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 14):

The 757 and 767 are the same catagory. I should clarify that I mean catagory to define a bidding group of pilots. At DL pilots bid the 757/767 as a single catagory as do the 88/90 pilots. The 717 is bid as its own catagory with pilots only qualified to fly the 717. So a 717 pilot could not fly an MD-90.
There's no known cure for stupid

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