UA1104 ANC-DEN Diverted To YVR

czbbflier · Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:41 pm

This came across my FB feed this morning:
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2016/01/united-airlines-flight-diverted-yvr/

Apparently, it was for "security reasons" and the RCMP has one individual in custody.

Since this was a domestic flight and it diverted to a Canadian airport, I'm wondering if the passengers were processed through Canada Customs and more to the point, how they dealt with the bad guy immigration-wise who is now in a Canadian jail.

I wonder if US BPA would have also met the aircraft. After all, they also have holding cells no doubt.

I've read a thread last year about domestic flights in foreign airspace but I don't recall any solid consensus as to what might happen when a flight diverts to an airport in that foreign country.

Of course, every situation has its own wrinkles so I'm curious about this one.

More details will come out later I'm sure but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts.

czbbflier · Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:49 pm

Here's a better link:
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/yvr-unitedairlines-security-diverted-1.3396966

It seems all the passengers were offloaded and are being rebooked.

Might they have just waited in the US waiting lounge behind the US Customs clearance area?

adamblang · Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:30 pm

Quoting czbbflier (Thread starter):
I'm wondering if the passengers were processed through Canada Customs

Given it's a domestic U.S. flight, I'd be surprised if more than a handful of passengers had appropriate documentation to clear Canadian customs.

YYZFAN · Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:21 pm

Quoting czbbflier (Thread starter):
what might happen when a flight diverts to an airport in that foreign country.

I had an experience similar in context. Flying ZIH-YYZ many moons ago on a TS 757 requiring an in-flight shut-down of the #1 engine. We diverted to HRL. On a Mexico-Canada routing, no clearance for the US. We sat on the tarmac about two hours waiting for CBP to come and process us on-board. We overnighted in HRL while an A310 was flown in from YUL.

Since any flight they were rebooked on would be in a customs cleared area, in theory, they should be able to be escorted to the pre-clearance area seeing as they deprted from ANC and were already in the United States. Only if they were to be flown to a Canadian city and onto DEN would CBSA need to process them. Not sure of the exact regulations behind it though.

My16sidedoffice · Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:10 pm

I'm fairly certain that non of the passengers would even have had to go through customs at all. The transborder area at YVR is pre-cleared with USCBP.

longhauler · Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:44 pm

Quoting My16sidedoffice (Reply 4):
I'm fairly certain that non of the passengers would even have had to go through customs at all. The transborder area at YVR is pre-cleared with USCBP.

Quoting YYZFAN (Reply 3):
Since any flight they were rebooked on would be in a customs cleared area, in theory, they should be able to be escorted to the pre-clearance area seeing as they deprted from ANC and were already in the United States.

If Canada Customs agrees, (and they normally do) the passengers and crew can remain in the US Departures area. Only if the onward flight were cancelled, or they had no way to accomodate them to DEN would they then have to clear Canadian Customs and Immigration.

It's much like a UAL crew flying DEN-YVR-ORD or an ACA crew flying LGA-YYZ-RSW. Canada Customs is advised and must be "asked", but normally crews do not clear any Customs procedures in Canada. There are exceptions (not relevant here) but much like any dealings with Customs, they always have to option to require that everyone be cleared.

qblue · Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:45 pm

Passenger were processed by custom as they were put in the Fairmont Hotel for a 2PM resheduled flight.

Viscount724 · Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:51 pm

Quoting czbbflier (Thread starter):
I wonder if US BPA would have also met the aircraft. After all, they also have holding cells no doubt.

I've read a thread last year about domestic flights in foreign airspace but I don't recall any solid consensus as to what might happen when a flight diverts to an airport in that foreign country.

Highly doubt the US BPA has holding cells in Canada. When a flight diverts to a foreign country and they're arrested/charged etc, the laws of that country apply. Many flights have been diverted to Canada due to unruly passengers etc. and they're always dealt with by the Canadian legal system and fined/sentenced accordingly.

Even if a passenger has passed through U.S. preclearance, if they do anything that requires police involvement before departing from Canada, it's the Canadian police that deal with the person.

ACDC8 · Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:04 am

Quoting qblue (Reply 6):

Passenger were processed by custom as they were put in the Fairmont Hotel for a 2PM resheduled flight.

So how does that work if one doesn't have appropriate documentation?

BEG2IAH · Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:30 am

Just read internal notes on this flight. Incredible what one dumb individual can cause.

NYC-air · Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:32 am

It's interesting that they decided to land at YVR rather than a US airport. BLI is only 50 miles away! That said, I suppose BLI has no United presence. SEA is a bit further.

Viscount724 · Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:35 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 8):
Quoting qblue (Reply 6):

Passenger were processed by custom as they were put in the Fairmont Hotel for a 2PM resheduled flight.

So how does that work if one doesn't have appropriate documentation?

I'm sure they can make exceptions in circumstances like that. There would have been hundreds of passengers on the dozens of flights diverted to Canadian airports on 9/11 without proper documentation to enter Canada. On an ANC-DEN domestic flight almost everyone was probably either a US citizen or a citizen of a country where Canada doesn't require a visa.

The 9/11 passengers who would have normally needed a visa to enter Canada weren't locked up at the airports for the few days they spent in Canada.

S75752 · Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:40 am

Quoting adamblang (Reply 2):
Given it's a domestic U.S. flight, I'd be surprised if more than a handful of passengers had appropriate documentation to clear Canadian customs.

Wouldn't just a drivers license work?

compensateme · Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:46 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 12):
Wouldn't just a drivers license work?

No, you need a passport if you're traveling by air to/from Canada. An enhanced driver's license is only applicable on the ground.

MesaFlyGuy · Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:49 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 12):

Quoting adamblang (Reply 2):
Given it's a domestic U.S. flight, I'd be surprised if more than a handful of passengers had appropriate documentation to clear Canadian customs.

Wouldn't just a drivers license work?

One normally needs a passport to clear customs. I'm not sure about special circumstances like this one.

slcdeltarumd11 · Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:51 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 12):

Quoting adamblang (Reply 2):
Given it's a domestic U.S. flight, I'd be surprised if more than a handful of passengers had appropriate documentation to clear Canadian customs.

Wouldn't just a drivers license work?

No, they need a passport to clear Canadian customs. Only a few border states New York, Michigan, and Washington mainly and even with those states there is an additional fee for the advanced licenses to get you in. As this flight was between two states that dont offer that i bet you very few if any had the documentation to clear. Its a special situation Canada will work to find something that works, i am sure YVR has a plan for a domestic US flight needing to stop.

threepoint · Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:16 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 14):
One normally needs a passport to clear customs. I'm not sure about special circumstances like this one.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):

No, they need a passport to clear Canadian customs.

As per the Canada Border Services Agency website http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/travel-voyage/td-dv-eng.html#_s2a)

Visitors to Canada
Identification requirements for U. S. citizens and permanent residents

If you are a U.S. citizen, ensure you carry proof of citizenship such as a passport, birth certificate, a certificate of citizenship or naturalization, or a Certificate of Indian Status along with photo identification. If you are a U.S. permanent resident, ensure you carry proof of your status such as a U.S. Permanent Resident Card.

For all modes of entry, we recommend you carry a valid passport for all travel abroad, including visits to Canada from the United States. A passport may be required by your airline or alternative transportation authority, as it is the only universally-accepted identification document.

Citizens and permanent residents of the United States who are members of the NEXUS or FAST programs may present their membership cards to the CBSA as proof of identity and as documents that denote citizenship, when arriving by land or marine modes only.

[Edited 2016-01-09 22:18:39]

b777900 · Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:04 pm

Why not just go to Seattle?

YYZFAN · Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:55 pm

Quoting b777900 (Reply 17):
Why not just go to Seattle?

If it is a security related incident, I'm going to hazard that the flight crew and cabin crew want this individual off the aircraft. If YVR is quicker and available, no reason not to go there.

From a rebook standpoint, they have their own ops and AC there too.

Flaps · Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:57 pm

Quoting b777900 (Reply 17):

Why not just go to Seattle?

My thoughts exactly. Whatever happened must have been of a pretty urgent nature to choose YVR with all of the issues inherent in that decision over SEA or BLI. I'm really curious now as to what the issue was.

csavel · Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:11 pm

Quoting My16sidedoffice (Reply 4):
I'm fairly certain that non of the passengers would even have had to go through customs at all. The transborder area at YVR is pre-cleared with USCBP.

Acc to the article, the plane landed at 4:00 AM, is the transborder area even open? is it staffed? I mean how much transborder traffic is there at that hour?

Unless either Cathay's HKG - JFK or PAL's Manila - JFK gets to Vancouver in the middle of the night.

ACDC8 · Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:29 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
I'm sure they can make exceptions in circumstances like that.

Thanks, so I'm assuming that there must be some plan in place because I seriously doubt that many of those pax had passports with them.

briguychau · Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:32 pm

Quoting csavel (Reply 20):
Acc to the article, the plane landed at 4:00 AM, is the transborder area even open? is it staffed? I mean how much transborder traffic is there at that hour?

Unless either Cathay's HKG - JFK or PAL's Manila - JFK gets to Vancouver in the middle of the night.

The transborder preclearance area opens at 04:30am. There are around 10 departures between 5:30am and 7am to the US, so it's somewhat busy.

CX/PR's JFK flights are irrelevant since they don't use preclearance.

cloudboy · Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:49 pm

I am sure they could handle a special case. There's a town in Maine that doesn't even have road access to the rest of the USA. And a town in Vermont that actually straddles the boarder, with public buildings which are in both countries.

hiflyeras · Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:05 pm

I imagine they looked at SEA, GEG and YVR. If 4am, GEG wouldn't have had many UA staff around. SEA might have been a bit better option it seems but we can't really say as we don't know what the threat was.

N126DL · Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:10 pm

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 23):
I am sure they could handle a special case. There's a town in Maine that doesn't even have road access to the rest of the USA. And a town in Vermont that actually straddles the boarder, with public buildings which are in both countries.

and Lake of the Woods, MN which is inside Canada, right?

ghYHZ · Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:10 am

and Point Roberts WA.......with in sight of YVR

YYZFAN · Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:07 am

Quoting csavel (Reply 20):
Acc to the article, the plane landed at 4:00 AM, is the transborder area even open?

Quoting briguychau (Reply 22):
The transborder preclearance area opens at 04:30am.

The transborder preclearance is staffed by US CBP, not CBSA. Them being there is irrelevant to this case as the issue is being cleared into Canada.

CBSA, to my knowledge, has a 24 hour presence at all major Canadian airports. Not sure of staffing levels though. A call out would not be difficult for additional officers to attend the airport for an irrop like this.

Viscount724 · Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:18 am

Quoting ghYHZ (Reply 26):
and Point Roberts WA.......with in sight of YVR

Older school age children in Point Roberts have to make 4 border crossings every day just to go to and from school.

canadianpylon · Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:20 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 19):
Quoting b777900 (Reply 17):

Why not just go to Seattle?

My thoughts exactly. Whatever happened must have been of a pretty urgent nature to choose YVR with all of the issues inherent in that decision over SEA or BLI. I'm really curious now as to what the issue was.

Just speculating here, but as they were flying south from Anchorage, Vancouver will come up first before Seattle. It might have been a situation where the pilot wanted the plane on the ground NOW and didn't want to fly the extra 15-20 minutes to Seattle.

Maybe their OperProc is fly into the closest available airport ASAP. United does have a presence at YVR, and AC having a hub there as well as a fellow Star Alliance member would have been helpful as well.

bcoz · Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:28 am

Just one man's opinion, but I don't think we are in a position to second guess the crew here. All the stories I've read say it was a security concern. If it is a security concern, I think the priority would be to get the aircraft on the ground at the closest usable facility possible. I don't know about you, but I don't think I want my flight crews to say, "Yeah... we've got this security issue that's big enough for us to want to divert the aircraft, but, you know what, let's just go ahead and fly an additional 20 minutes or so to Seattle." The crew got the aircraft on the ground, the gentleman was taken into custody and everyone was safe and unharmed. I say that's a pretty good outcome.

Flaps · Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:54 am

Quoting bcoz (Reply 30):
Just one man's opinion, but I don't think we are in a position to second guess the crew here. All the stories I've read say it was a security concern. If it is a security concern, I think the priority would be to get the aircraft on the ground at the closest usable facility possible. I don't know about you, but I don't think I want my flight crews to say, "Yeah... we've got this security issue that's big enough for us to want to divert the aircraft, but, you know what, let's just go ahead and fly an additional 20 minutes or so to Seattle." The crew got the aircraft on the ground, the gentleman was taken into custody and everyone was safe and unharmed. I say that's a pretty good outcome.

I don't believe that anyone is questioning that. We're all just all a bit curious as to what exactly it was that occurred that created that priority. I for one am a whole lot more interested in that aspect than what time CBP opens or how they handled the pax. Thirty replies in and no one has any additional info? Unusual for this site which makes it all the more curious.

yyztpa · Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:13 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
One normally needs a passport to clear customs. I'm not sure about special circumstances like this one.

When travelling from the US to Canada, my understanding is that a passport is not mandatory. Other forms of proof of citizenship are accepted. A passport is preferred to ensure you will have no issues when travelling back to US.

Viscount724 · Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:40 am

Quoting yyztpa (Reply 32):
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
One normally needs a passport to clear customs. I'm not sure about special circumstances like this one.

When travelling from the US to Canada, my understanding is that a passport is not mandatory. Other forms of proof of citizenship are accepted. A passport is preferred to ensure you will have no issues when travelling back to US.

That's true for surface travel, but when travelling by air I believe the U.S. government requires that US citizens hold a passport, although not sure how they enforce that since the U.S. has no departure controls. That's probably why the airlines themselves require that all international passengers, including those going to Canada, have a passport.

See DL requirements on their website. Note the first paragraph.
http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...travel/traveling-from-the-u-s.html

Excerpt:

A passport is required for ALL international travel. If you're traveling anywhere overseas, even to Canada, the Caribbean or Mexico, you need a passport to board an international flight

Excerpt from AC site:

Canadian and U.S. citizens must present a valid passport or a valid Nexus card when travelling by air between Canada and the United States.

Nexus card holders who are permanent residents of Canada or the U.S. must travel with a passport and proof of permanent residence, in addition to their Nexus card, and may be asked to present these documents upon arrival at the border.

briguychau · Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:02 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 33):
although not sure how they enforce that since the U.S. has no departure controls.

As far as I know, gate agents will check all passengers' passports and refuse boarding if one is not provided.

threepoint · Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:14 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 33):
...when travelling by air I believe the U.S. government requires that US citizens hold a passport, although not sure how they enforce that since the U.S. has no departure controls. That's probably why the airlines themselves require that all international passengers, including those going to Canada, have a passport.

Not quite correct, neither government demands a passport if the traveler is a valid Nexus holder for example. Same goes for the airlines of either country.
I exercise this privilege weekly (using just my Nexus card). In December, I presented my just Nexus card to the CBSA officer when I returned from Central America (passport remained in my pocket) and she was perfectly happy with that, perhaps because I arrived via the US. My last three trips returning to YVR this month, I have not interacted with a human, except to hand over a customs declaration card upon exiting the baggage claim area. Immigration is handled by kiosk. Efficient, yet impersonal.

All citizens of countries outside Canada and the US require passports, traveling in either direction between the two countries.

UA1104 ANC-DEN Diverted To YVR

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