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Flying Belgian
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787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:21 pm

Does anyone have an idea of which airlines effectively cross qualify their cockpit crew to fly both the 787 and the 777 ?

I know Ethiopian does, but for instance, it doesn't seem to be the case for Qatar.

What about UA, AA, EY, KL, BA, LA, NZ,... ?

Thanks !

 
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tonyflyboi
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:24 pm

HI as I type this reply we at British Airways are going to duel rated on both 777 and 787

the 787 will be come a variant of the 777!!!


hope that answers your question
 
dubaiamman243
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:31 pm

Qatar Airways too. They operate both types
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Flying Belgian
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:33 pm

Quoting dubaiamman243 (Reply 2):

Qatar Airways too. They operate both types

Strange since a friend of mine, QR 777 captain, isn't yet type rated on the 787.
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harleydriver
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:55 pm

I was under the impression the only reason it was a common type rating was to reduce the cost of training for pilots transitioning from the B777 to the B787. It will just be familiarization training instead of a full blown new course. I didn't think any airline would have pilots actually fly both types as a standard day to day practice.
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zkncj
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:34 pm

Quoting harleydriver (Reply 4):
I was under the impression the only reason it was a common type rating was to reduce the cost of training for pilots transitioning from the B777 to the B787. It will just be familiarization training instead of a full blown new course. I didn't think any airline would have pilots actually fly both types as a standard day to day practice.

NZ are planning to have the 777/787 from an single fleet pool by about 2018, once the 763 leaves the fleet there having two pools of pilot 777/787 and 320/321NEO/320NEO
 
tonystan
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:57 pm

Quoting tonyflyboi (Reply 1):

This is just for Cabin Crew, not flight crew. Flight crew (with the exception of training pilots) will remain at BA to maintain separate type ratings for the two aircraft.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
darentyczynski
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:47 am

I believe that KL pilots will also fly both the 777 & 787
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:58 am

Quoting tonyflyboi (Reply 1):
HIwe at British Airways are going to duel rated on both 777 and 787

So they fence to see who gets to fly what? .....cool!

I wonder how our two Texas-based airlines would handle that?  

[Edited 2016-01-15 20:04:13]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Joost
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:57 am

KLM indeed does have one crew for 787 and 777 operations and pilots fly both types on a day to day basis. https://royaldutchvirtual.com/blog/2015/09/explained-klm-787-background-and-introduction/
 
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777Jet
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:07 am

What about Scoot when they were operating both 777s and 787s?
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Joost
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:09 am

Quoting harleydriver (Reply 4):
I was under the impression the only reason it was a common type rating was to reduce the cost of training for pilots transitioning from the B777 to the B787. It will just be familiarization training instead of a full blown new course. I didn't think any airline would have pilots actually fly both types as a standard day to day practice.

There is way more to it. When pilots are able to fly both types, it gives you great flexibility in creating schedules, both for planning ahead, as well as for operational changes.

It has to do with the amount of pilots you need to have available at your outstation. Pilot fatique rules make that you need to have a flight crew present at your outstation, to fly the plane back.

Now for example look at KLMs S16 AMS-GRU flight, which will be operated by the 789 (days 24) and the 772 (days x24). The flight arrives at GRU in the evening and turns around in 2 hours. IIRC, pilots stay 2 nights in GRU before flying back (so they have one full day of rest and one day to prepare for the flight back).

By having the crew cross-trained, it means that the crew that flies the 787 to GRU on Thursday, can fly the 777 back on Saturday evening. And likewise, the crew who flies the 777 on Sunday, flies the 787 back on Tuesday.

If you wouldn't use common type rating, such a schedule would lead to way more pilots staying in GRU, or to at least two crews deadheading each week, making it very unattractive. Common type rating makes it possible to create such schedules and KLM will be using it to a great extent next summer when more 787s arrive. Currently, DXB and GIG are mixed between 787 and 777, next summer also GRU, CPT, HGH, KIX and XMN will see a 777/787 mixed schedule.

In operational issues, it also helps: a spare 777 will always be able to sub for a 787 going tech, as any 789 flight can also be performed by a 777, it only has more seats and will burn a bit more fuel flying there, but that's still way better than cancelling the flight.
 
apodino
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:53 pm

AA will not be doing this as they say the drawbacks far outweigh the benefits.
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:58 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 12):
AA will not be doing this as they say the drawbacks far outweigh the benefits.

And what are those drawbacks? Training issues, etc.?
Now you're flying smart
 
Joost
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RE: 787-777 Common Type Rating. Which Airlines?

Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:58 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 12):

AA will not be doing this as they say the drawbacks far outweigh the benefits.

Fleett size makes a big differende: after all orders have been fulfilled, AA will have 67x 777s and 42x 787s (assuming no 777 phase-out before the last 787 delivery). For KLM, it will be only half the fleet size so mixing is more beneficial to them.

What *might* be another reason, is pay scale. Do AA 787 pilots make less than 777 pilots? In that case, there's a good reason to separate both groups (from an airline perspective).

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