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theSFOspotter
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United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:07 am

With Summer 2016 quickly approach will United have a shortage of 787-9s with the new routes and aircraft changes? SFO will have TPE, TLV, HND, AKL (Fall 2016), SYD, ICN. LAX will have SYD, NRT, PVG, MEL, IAH. With 14 in service and 5 on order will that be enough to get bye on all those routes? Will UA schedule 787 flights between SFO and LAX to utilize less ground time like they did in March/April 2015 with the 787-8?

[Edited 2016-01-10 16:08:26]
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iahcsr
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:18 am

At least 17, if not all 18, will be in service by mid-summer.      

[Edited 2016-01-10 16:20:54]
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TWA772LR
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:21 am

IAH has a handful of 789 routes as well. I believe GRU is all 789 and LHR is a mix of 788 and 789.
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LAXintl
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:30 am

Quoting theSFOspotter (Thread starter):
With 14 in service and 5 on order will that be enough to get bye on all those routes?

Do you not believe that United knows the number of aircraft they have and can figure out the number of routes they can operate with them.  
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:28 am

It looks like it would take 17 to do the routings listed by the OP.
I don't see 789s at IAH and IAH-GRU shows a 788.
Maint could be done at SFO and LAX. Substantial ground time at both cities

Without a scheduled LAX-SFO segment, only swapout between LAX and SFO aircraft is at SYD.
 
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777Jet
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:37 am

Quoting theSFOspotter (Thread starter):
Will UA schedule 787 flights between SFO and LAX to utilize less ground time

Good question.

I hope so for the sake of being able to log a quick domestic LAX-SFO sector on a 789  
Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 4):
Without a scheduled LAX-SFO segment, only swapout between LAX and SFO aircraft is at SYD.

That's what they have often done and pretty much always did with the 747s as the SYD flight was the only LAX 747 flight at one stage. The 747 rotation was SFO-SYD-LAX-SYD-MEL-SYD-SFO but now the MEL sector is irrelevant as MEL has it's own flight.
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theSFOspotter
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:33 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 5):
I hope so for the sake of being able to log a quick domestic LAX-SFO sector on a 789  

I hope so to! I was lucky enough to fly the -8 on the route.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Do you not believe that United knows the number of aircraft they have and can figure out the number of routes they can operate with them.  

Could there possibly a new order once Munoz returns? He said he liked the 787-9 and 77W at the SFO UA Family Day.
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TWA772LR
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:46 am

Quoting theSFOspotter (Reply 6):
He said he liked the 787-9 and 77W at the SFO UA Family Day.

I think SFO,and even ORD, is going to see more A350s than 77Ws seeing as the A350 is slated to replace the 747. SFO is doing pretty well on expansion with the 787s, and I'm sure UA feels they can get some more money out of EWR. I can see the 77W going on heavy routes like TLV, DEL, and BOM for starters. Freeing up those 772s for whatever UA seems fit.

This is only the beginning of UAs widebody expansion. 763s are still being refitted, 7810s haven't even been built yet, and the 77Ws are coming at the end of this year. 2017-2018 are going to be very interesting years for United Airlines.
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hoons90
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:54 am

I believe that the deployment of the 787-9 to ICN will only be temporary (from August till October).
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FSDan
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:48 am

Actually, there is quite some slack in the fleet in the summer schedule as far as I can tell... Looking at June/July:

From LAX:
LAX-NRT
LAX-PVG
LAX-SYD
LAX-MEL

Those 4 routes require 6 frames to operate a daily schedule, and one aircraft would sit on the ground all day at LAX.

From SFO:
SFO-TLV (3x weekly)
SFO-TPE
SFO-SYD

Those 3 routes require 5 frames to operate the schedule, with one aircraft sitting on the ground all day at SFO. So that's a total of 11 frames, and 17 or 18 should be delivered by then.

It looks to me like SFO-HND is scheduled on the 777-200ER for the summer, and SFO-ICN remains on the 747-400 through the summer. I don't see any scheduled domestic turns as of now, but there definitely seems to be the availability to add a few if needed.
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theSFOspotter
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:52 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 7):

I think SFO,and even ORD, is going to see more A350s than 77Ws seeing as the A350 is slated to replace the 747. SFO is doing pretty well on expansion with the 787s, and I'm sure UA feels they can get some more money out of EWR. I can see the 77W going on heavy routes like TLV, DEL, and BOM for starters. Freeing up those 772s for whatever UA seems fit.

Could we see a 77W at SFO as a short term replacement for the 744 until the first A350s arrive in 2018? SFO does have a 777 crew base but that will probably be gone in a few years. I'm guessing UA will do training flights from hub to hub like they did when they first received the 787.
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TWA772LR
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:06 am

Quoting theSFOspotter (Reply 10):

It wouldn't surprise me, but I think that also hinges on a few variables:
The new 787 routes need to mature.
EWR definitely needs the capacity right now vs SFO with EWR being slot controlled.
(opening a can of worms here) If the 77W comes with F, then I see it in SFO sooner rather than later. If not, then EWR or even ORD first.

UA is more experimenting with SFO, expecially witht the 788 and mainland China. The 789 routes are routes that are tried and true (SYD), or routes with tons of demand (TLV). I think UA wants to keep the status quo in terms of larger aircraft until they start retiring the 744, so I don't think those will go anywhere on behalf of the 77W.
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theSFOspotter
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:13 am

Quoting FSDan (Reply 9):
From SFO:
SFO-TLV (3x weekly)
SFO-TPE
SFO-SYD

From what I heard from SFO, SFO-CTU is also going to be upgraded but is yet to be announced.
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DolphinAir747
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:22 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):

Quoting theSFOspotter (Thread starter):
With 14 in service and 5 on order will that be enough to get bye on all those routes?

Do you not believe that United knows the number of aircraft they have and can figure out the number of routes they can operate with them.

Of course not, which is why UA fleet planners constantly read A.net for our collective expert advice!   
 
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VCEflyboy
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:23 am

Any news on MEL? How has it been doing?
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:24 am

Quoting theSFOspotter (Reply 12):
rom what I heard from SFO, SFO-CTU is also going to be upgraded but is yet to be announced.

Really? This winter it isn't even daily on the 788.
 
theSFOspotter
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:52 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 15):
Really? This winter it isn't even daily on the 788.

Weird…I guess its something for 2017 but it IS going to happen.
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AA777223
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:39 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 2):

IAH has a handful of 789 routes as well. I believe GRU is all 789 and LHR is a mix of 788 and 789.

FRA is also going 789 out of IAH soon, if not already. I noticed recently when looking online most of the flights ar changing from 772 to 789. LHR is almost all 788 with only one flight daily still 763, I believe. I did just notice the GRU recently - didn't know that was supposed to be happening.

I've really bee amazed by what a fixture the 787 is becoming on UA routes of of IAH. Other than the oddball 764 to MUC, many of the former 763 and 772 flights are being converted to 787. There are still goodly number of holdouts still, of course. I am curious if we will see NRT go 789 at some point. I expect if any new Asia services are introduced from IAH anytime soon (PVG, PEK of HKG), they will be 787 routes. The aircraft seems to be serving UA quite well. I have flown on both the -8s and -9s in J and Y and find them quite comfortable.
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codc10
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:46 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 17):
I've really bee amazed by what a fixture the 787 is becoming on UA routes of of IAH. Other than the oddball 764 to MUC, many of the former 763 and 772 flights are being converted to 787.

This is really only for the late winter/early spring as by April the 787-9s are mostly all slated to transition to SFO Pacific ops, and the IAH 789 routes will go back to 767/777.
 
campellochris
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:29 pm

I have found the pinned post on airlineroute.net to be extremely helpful with regards to keeping up with United's 78 schedule.
 
ORD Boy 2
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:39 pm

I am surprised we honestly do not see the 787's out of ORD, IAD or EWR much at all.
 
a380787
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:46 pm

Quoting ORD+Boy+2" class="quote" target="_blank">ORD Boy 2 (Reply 20):

I am surprised we honestly do not see the 787's out of ORD, IAD or EWR much at all.

When 787-10 arrive, those 3 hubs should see a lot of them going to Europe.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:07 pm

A lot of these decisions will depend on range and cargo capacity. Note the 787-10 will have reduced range.

788 looks to start new markets, service long thin markets.
772 great range, lots of aircraft for majority of markets
789 better cargo capacity, 15 seat reduction vs. 772 - Oz service more profitable with 789
7810 looks like same difference of 763 and 764 - more capacity at lower range, great for most flights
773 is a beast with best range, most seats, most cargo
3510 next generation aircraft, better range than 773, same LD3 count, pax difference vs. 773ER?

seasonal changes with equipment to be expected on numerous routes. Aircraft may be based in one or more airports due maint and/or crew.

7878 7355 nm range, 4826 sq ft cargo, 28 LD3
772E 7730 nm range, 5720 sq ft cargo, 32 LD3
7879 7635 nm range, 6086 sq ft cargo, 36 LD3
7810 6430 nm range, 6187 sq ft. cargo, 40 LD3
773E 7830 nm range, 7640 sq ft. cargo, 44 LD3
3510 7990 nm range, 7352 sq ft. cargo, 44 LD3
 
jayunited
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:52 pm

Quoting ORD+Boy+2" class="quote" target="_blank">ORD Boy 2 (Reply 20):
I am surprised we honestly do not see the 787's out of ORD, IAD or EWR much at all.

If you honestly look at the international destinations UA serves from those markets I think you will understand why UA is not utilizing any 787's from these markets. The 787 has made flights like DEN-NRT or SFO-CTU possible, the 788/9 help keep UA in the game at LAX on the LAX-NRT/PVG routes and has made possible LAX-MELand from what UA has stated in the past these routes are meeting expectation what ever that means. If we were to take ORD for example the only route right now that could use an aircraft as capable as the 789 is ORD-HKG however the route probably could use a boost in capacity not a slight cut. All other international route out of ORD fit comfortably within the range of either the 763, 772, 772ER, or 744. To swap out any widebody aircraft at ORD for a 788/9 at this point is in time with the exception being HKG would be a waste especially when UA has other routes that really need an aircraft that is as capable as the 788/9.
 
KELPkid
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:57 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 4):
I don't see 789s at IAH and IAH-GRU shows a 788.

I know that GRU isn't Rio de Janiero, but I would imagine with the summer games coming up, there will be some upgauging going on on USA-Brasil flights  
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a380787
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:57 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 22):
7879 7635 nm range, 6086 sq ft cargo, 36 LD3
Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 22):
773E 7830 nm range, 7640 sq ft. cargo, 44 LD3

As for this difference, a very minor PIP in later builds should definitely close the tiny 2.6% range gap.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 22):
3510 7990 nm range, 7352 sq ft. cargo, 44 LD3

Whether Airbus can actually deliver on this range figure remains to be seen.
 
B737900ER
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:16 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 14):

Any news on MEL? How has it been doing?

It loads are any indication it's been going gang busters.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 15):
Really? This winter it isn't even daily on the 788

China is slow during the winter. Really slow. If not for business reasons I could see PVG and PEK reduced some days of the week.
 
COEWR787
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RE: United And The 787-9

Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:24 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 17):
FRA is also going 789 out of IAH soon, if not already.

I am booked on a 787-9 IAH - FRA this Thursday. So yes, it is currently flying with a 787-9.

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