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infinit
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:10 pm

According to the Financial Times, Singapore Airlines is set to announce 4x weekly flight to Canberra next week

"We understand Singapore Airlines chief executive Goh Choon Phong will descend on our national capital next week to announce the commencement of four weekly flights between Singapore and Canberra. And thanks to tricky aircraft utilisation, the airline will use the same Airbus A330 to operate an onward Canberra-Wellington return service."
Singapore Airlines to launch direct flights to Canberra

Australian Business Traveller thereafter reposted it-
Singapore Airlines to launch international flights from Canberra Airport?
 
Motorhussy
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:20 pm

Um, they're actually launching flights to WLG via CBR.  duck 

Actually, it's perfect. Too much risk for either capital city on their respective individual merits, but together… and the added bonus of no competition on the TT leg.

I thought it humorous in the ABT article, they called it a "dog leg" to WLG. There's no veering at right-angles, in fact the SIN-WLG route passes near to CBR (closer to SYD).

Congrats to SQ, CBR and WLG (and no doubt to VA and NZ who are likely partnering too).

[Edited 2016-01-11 06:45:11]
come visit the south pacific
 
a380787
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:20 pm

That's a bode move indeed - SIN-CBR-WLG ! Thank goodness someone is thinking outside the box.
 
smi0006
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:30 pm

Well I confess I figured Canberra would one day in the next five years get an international service, but two destinations in one day is impressive for the small little capital!
 
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DolphinAir747
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:42 pm

Oh my God, this is amazing. Insane that CBR lacked service to WLG. Kudos to SQ for thinking outside the box. I am sure this is a preemptive move against EK launching DXB CBR WLG.
 
BAeRJ100
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:58 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 4):
Insane that CBR lacked service to WLG.

Until the service starts, CBR lacks scheduled service to anywhere outside of Australia let alone to WLG  
B737/738/739/744ER/752/753/763/77L/77W/788/789
A223/320/321/332/333/346/359/388
MD82/MD88/717/F100/RJ85/RJ100/146-100/200/300
E175/190/CRJ700/900
 
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Ytraveller
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:59 pm

Mmmm, I do love exotic routes. Congrats to Canberra and Wellington!
 
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DolphinAir747
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:05 pm

Quoting BAeRJ100 (Reply 5):
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 4):
Insane that CBR lacked service to WLG.

Until the service starts, CBR lacks scheduled service to anywhere outside of Australia let alone to WLG  

Which is still insane. You would have thought this route would have service given that WLG is one of Australia's state capitals...   
 
antskip
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:13 pm

Just fantastic news! It is a game-changer. But does the A330 have a restricted payload out of WLG?
 
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MrHMSH
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:22 pm

Quoting antskip (Reply 8):
But does the A330 have a restricted payload out of WLG?

Surely if it's only going to CBR from WLG it's no issue?
 
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Qatara340
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:38 pm

I heard CBR has a short runway to support ULH routes; is it true?

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 7):

Which is still insane. You would have thought this route would have service given that WLG is one of Australia's state capitals...   

WLG is actually the capital of neighboring New Zealand, which is a separate country--not in Australia.

CBR is the capital of Australia.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
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DolphinAir747
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:48 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 10):
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 7):

Which is still insane. You would have thought this route would have service given that WLG is one of Australia's state capitals...   

WLG is actually the capital of neighboring New Zealand, which is a separate country--not in Australia.

CBR is the capital of Australia.

A.net needs a sarcasm font! But trolling aside, the first Australian constitution mentioned NZ as a state!
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/63-64/12/section/6

[Edited 2016-01-11 08:09:00]
 
a380787
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:49 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 10):
I heard CBR has a short runway to support ULH routes; is it true?

The longer runway at CBR is 3283m / 10771 ft, and at just 575m elevation, I think nonstop to DXB should be fine. WLG is the issue here - with just 2081m runway. For a short 3 hour hop from WLG to CBR, that's plenty sufficient.

This route is definitely the fruition of the deepening SQ+NZ partnership at work.
 
antskip
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:50 pm

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 9):
Quoting antskip (Reply 8):
But does the A330 have a restricted payload out of WLG?

Surely if it's only going to CBR from WLG it's no issue?

It is a A330 WLG-SIN flight via CBR.
 
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DolphinAir747
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:10 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 12):
The longer runway at CBR is 3283m / 10771 ft, and at just 575m elevation, I think nonstop to DXB should be fine. WLG is the issue here - with just 2081m runway. For a short 3 hour hop from WLG to CBR, that's plenty sufficient.

I believe NZ has operated the 77W AKL WLG before. Obviously it is shorter than WLG CBR but still made for cool pictures.
 
zkncj
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:21 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 14):
I believe NZ has operated the 77W AKL WLG before. Obviously it is shorter than WLG CBR but still made for cool pictures.

It was empty, apart from a couple of guests/staff.

After the Christchurch earthquake, they operated 772 on CHC-WLG full with passengers. But they didn't really have bags etc and it was an 30minute trip.
 
CPH-R
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:29 pm

Watching an A330 landing at WLG during a roaring gale should be mighty interesting  
 
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seat55a
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:32 pm

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 16):
Watching an A330 landing at WLG during a roaring gale should be mighty interesting

There's a good catch of a QF 767 being thrown around on landing to WLG, first up in this compilation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV80S2ftATg
 
AA7295
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:45 pm

Will SQ have passenger traffic rights between WLG and CBR? No mention of it in either article.
 
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DolphinAir747
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:47 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 18):
Will SQ have passenger traffic rights between WLG and CBR? No mention of it in either article.

I doubt they would launch such a route if they didn't especially seeing how much SQ's longhaul network depends on fifth-freedom traffic.
 
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seat55a
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:47 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 7):
Which is still insane. You would have thought this route would have service given that WLG is one of Australia's state capitals...

Anyway it should be a good enabler for the Malcolm x John bromance.  
 
LGAviation
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:49 pm

Just out of curiosity, I understand that plenty of AKL flights (i.e. CI, EK) have an intermediate stop down under, so do passengers need to clear Australian customs and immigration (US style) or will they be forced to remain aboard for these flights
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SCQ83
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:52 pm

How is that Canberra does not have a flight even to AKL?
 
zkncj
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:53 pm

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 21):
Just out of curiosity, I understand that plenty of AKL flights (i.e. CI, EK) have an intermediate stop down under, so do passengers need to clear Australian customs and immigration (US style) or will they be forced to remain aboard for these flights

Passengers transiting in Australia aren't required to clear customs and immigration, they just have to pass though an security check-point then back to the gate lounge.
 
zkncj
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:54 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 22):
How is that Canberra does not have a flight even to AKL?

Limited traffic, most Business traffic is for AKL-SYD/MEL and not CBR.
 
SCQ83
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:05 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 24):

I imagine... it is surprising though. AKL is one of the largest airports in the region and it is also a hub for Air New Zealand... they could funnel people to the Pacific, US or LATAM through their hub. Aren't all Embassies based in Canberra?
 
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PM
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:15 pm

People (ncluding Australians) tend to be rude about Canberra but I thought it was a quite delightful place. I'd happily live there. And I know that residents of Canberra find it an almightly pain to have to connect to a major Australian hub before they can fly internationally. I know of several people who will now be delighted to fly to Singapore and thence connect to China, India, or wherever. Good luck to 'em, I say!
 
zkncj
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:22 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):
I imagine... it is surprising though. AKL is one of the largest airports in the region and it is also a hub for Air New Zealand... they could funnel people to the Pacific, US or LATAM through their hub. Aren't all Embassies based in Canberra?

Still limited traffic, NZ's smallest intentional jet is an 168 seat A320 in an all Y configuration and like filling these around 90-100% full other wise the route is axed.

Embassies would probably want to fly J class, something NZ can't offer on the A320.
 
tullamarine
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:08 pm

The logical aircraft if NZ/VA want to expand TT from CBR beyond codesharing with SQ would be VA's E190s They are small enough tk sustain lighg demand and have a good J product fof thd distances involved
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Coal
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:17 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 22):
How is that Canberra does not have a flight even to AKL?

Because CBR is smaller than TLH and most people who work there don't even live there.
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qf2220
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:31 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 11):

We had two 'nation'wide referenda to become a federation. If the first referenda was successful, NZ and Fiji were to vote on becoming states in the Federation as well. The Western Australians however did not pass their referendum first go around, so this didn't happen, and by the time the second one came around, things in NZ and Fiji (and the 6 Australian states) had moved on and they didn't vote. I often wonder what Australia and the Pacific would look like if the first referendum had been a success.
 
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DolphinAir747
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:44 pm

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 30):
I often wonder what Australia and the Pacific would look like if the first referendum had been a success.

I can't imagine it would be THAT different given the close nature of cooperation between AU and NZ and that unlike other countries that split/did not merge and had very different trajectories (say, Singapore and Malaysia or the two Koreas) their levels of development today are extremely similar and I would give a lot to live in either.
 
Viscount724
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:16 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 26):
People (ncluding Australians) tend to be rude about Canberra but I thought it was a quite delightful place. I'd happily live there. And I know that residents of Canberra find it an almightly pain to have to connect to a major Australian hub before they can fly internationally.

Canberra has quite a bit in common in those respects with Canada's capital, Ottawa, which suffers by being as close as it is to Canada's two largest cities, especially Montreal (2 hour drive) and about a 4.5 hour drive or 45 minute flight to Toronto.

Although YOW is significantly larger (metro area about 1.2 million) than CBR and YOW airport handles roughly 50% more passenger traffic than CBR, YOW's only year-round longhaul route is AC to LHR, plus AC summer seasonal service to FRA. YOW airport would be much busier if the city was in a more remote location, like YYC with almost the same population but more than triple the passenger traffic.

The capital cities of the U.S. and Canada, two of the world's largest trading partners, didn't even have direct air service until sometime in the late 1990s.
 
Motorhussy
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:21 pm

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 28):

Agreed, especially as traffic is likely just pax and bags, no/limited freight.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 25):

The embassies to Australia yes but most embassies to New Zealand (a sovereign nation) are based in Wellington.

Quoting seat55a (Reply 17):

I live on Evans Bay overlooking WLG and aside from the usual scheduled jet traffic of mostly NZ/JQ A320, QF/VA/FJ 738, I've in recent years seen NZ 77W's and 763's, an NH 77W, an Abu Dhabi Amiri 788, QF 763's and an A333, and a GF A342 - so I'm pretty certain there'll be no issues for the short hop of an SQ A333 to CBR.

On a separate note, I'd imagine the cargo hold will be leaving from WLG with high value perishables from the greater Wellington Region, bound for the discerning Singaporean middle classes.
come visit the south pacific
 
CupraIbiza
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:35 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 12):
The longer runway at CBR is 3283m / 10771 ft, and at just 575m elevation, I think nonstop to DXB should be fine. WLG is the issue here - with just 2081m runway. For a short 3 hour hop from WLG to CBR, that's plenty sufficient.

Longer runway at CBR. Reminds me of the "vodka burner"

Nice work SQ - very surprising. Seems they have beaten EK;   
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
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mariner
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:36 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 29):
Because CBR is smaller than TLH and most people who work there don't even live there.

Canberra has quite a large permanent population. The politicians try to avoid living there, but the bureaucrats and support services do.

In many ways it's a lovely place, but as an artificially "created" city it's major reason for being is the government and it doesn't help when Prime Ministers decide not to live there, as some have done, preferring the most obvious charms of Sydney.

I like it a lot, and have been several times as a tourist.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 32):
Canberra has quite a bit in common in those respects with Canada's capital, Ottawa,

  

It needs a little love, but as someone said when it was first chosen as the capital - "there goes a perfectly good sheep station"

mariner
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777Jet
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:22 pm

Great to see CBR get Intl flights, and, moreover, two Intl destinations to kick things off!

Most people though AKL would have been the first Intl destination launched from CBR.

SIN & WLG is just awesome!

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 1):
and the added bonus of no competition on the TT leg.

CBR has no Intl flights at all so there is no direct competition on any Intl route from CBR  
Quoting BAeRJ100 (Reply 5):
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 4):
Insane that CBR lacked service to WLG.

Until the service starts, CBR lacks scheduled service to anywhere outside of Australia let alone to WLG

  

Quoting antskip (Reply 8):
But does the A330 have a restricted payload out of WLG?

Not on a 3hr flight to CBR.
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DolphinAir747
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:47 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 33):
Abu Dhabi Amiri 788, QF 763's and an A333, and a GF A342 - so I'm pretty certain there'll be no issues for the short hop of an SQ A333 to CBR.

Why so many Gulf services? Is WLG a vacation spot for the royal families?

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
Canberra has quite a large permanent population. The politicians try to avoid living there, but the bureaucrats and support services do.

In many ways it's a lovely place, but as an artificially "created" city it's major reason for being is the government and it doesn't help when Prime Ministers decide not to live there, as some have done, preferring the most obvious charms of Sydney.

Now if someone could start a CBR-BSB flight to link the world's two most hated artificial capitals...   
 
Milesdependent
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:13 am

Will be interesting to see flight times. If they are targeting Asian/Indian connections it will need to arrive SIN in the morning, afternoon or early evening. But it'll need to arrive into SIN 8pm-ish to connect to European departures. People won't want a 5 hour stopover.
 
Motorhussy
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:33 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 37):
Why so many Gulf services?

The Amiri flight and the Gulf Air service were both here with VIP's and sports teams; a World Cup Cricket team and support crew, family and supporters from the UAE, and a similar group from Bahrain in Wellington for a Football World Cup qualifying round (New Zealand won and went to the World Cup in 2010, the only team to have been undefeated in the Sth Africa tournament).
come visit the south pacific
 
IndianicWorld
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:45 am

Overall this capital connect route is a good move by SQ, but I would suspect there's some significant incentives on the table to operate it.

The ACT govt has been chasing international service quite hard over the last few years and I would think that SQ would have got a very nice deal here.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 39):
(New Zealand won and went to the World Cup in 2010, the only team to have been undefeated in the Sth Africa tournament).

Oh how can one forget.. Didn't win a game though haha
 
Bluebird191
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:56 am

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 38):
Will be interesting to see flight times. If they are targeting Asian/Indian connections it will need to arrive SIN in the morning, afternoon or early evening. But it'll need to arrive into SIN 8pm-ish to connect to European departures. People won't want a 5 hour stopover.

But there are travellers like myself who, when travelling to Europe, actually prefer a morning arrival into Asia to give a shorter connection through for an afternoon arrival - did that a few years ago for a mid afternoon arrival into LHR on SQ308 after a red eye from BNE. Had a 3 hour connection there, coming back I specifically chose a 6 hour connection over 3 hours - not everyone prefers a shorter connection time.

I'm tempted to say it'll be a red eye SIN-CBR and CBR-SIN to allow for less aircraft down time in WLG (compared to a midnight arrival and early morning departure), not to mention a friendlier arrival time for tourists and business travellers.
 
TropicalSQ744
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:21 am

And what will they use after the A330s leave the fleet? Hand it over to Scoot or Silkair?
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qf2220
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:23 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 31):

I guess its more the Pacific I think about. Agreed, NZ and AU are arguably the most aligned/unified countries on the planet.

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
It needs a little love, but as someone said when it was first chosen as the capital - "there goes a perfectly good sheep station"

I also wonder if Adelaide and surrounds were ever considered for a capital. Putting what is there now would make a pretty strong fourth point, and instead of a golden triangle, we would have a golden square in SE Australia.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:28 am

A B787 or A350 should be able to replace an A330 on such a route. And I believe SQ are getting A350s.

As a Wellingtonian who's looking to move to the UK shortly I'll be sad to see this happen and not see it. But it will make coming back neat.

Here's hoping the rumor is true.
 
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77west
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:28 am

Quoting TropicalSQ744 (Reply 42):
And what will they use after the A330s leave the fleet? Hand it over to Scoot or Silkair?

A350-900 is the most likely candidate as discussed on the NZ Aviation thread.
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IndianicWorld
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:38 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 43):
I also wonder if Adelaide and surrounds were ever considered for a capital. Putting what is there now would make a pretty strong fourth point, and instead of a golden triangle, we would have a golden square in SE Australia.

No, it was always going to be between Melbourne and Sydney.

Albury and Wagga Wagga were strong possibilities though. Albury likely made the most sense though.

In a way, Sydney won out in the capital decision as it is far closer than Melbourne to Canberra.
 
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RyanairGuru
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:41 am

As a Canberran I am so happy to see international flights finally launched from CBR. It will definitely interesting to see how they get on though, both CBR and WLG are uncharted waters.

I am personally quite surprised that SQ beat EK to the punch. Not that I was expecting EK to announce service anytime soon, but I honestly thought that they would be first.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 40):
I would suspect there's some significant incentives on the table to operate it.

The ACT govt has been chasing international service quite hard over the last few years and I would think that SQ would have got a very nice deal here.

  

The ACT Government will definitely be stumping up a tidy pile of cash to pull this off.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 33):
The embassies to Australia yes but most embassies to New Zealand (a sovereign nation) are based in Wellington.

But quite a few smaller countries that lack political and economic ties with our region don't have representation in New Zealand, just as Australia (and premsumably New Zealand?) have very few diplomatic missions in African and Latin American countries. For example the Australian Embassy in Zimbabwe is responsible for Botswana, Zambia, Mozambique and several other countries where we don't maintain representation.

Quoting Coal (Reply 29):
most people who work there don't even live there

I don't know why you keep repeating this lie in countless threads, when you have been pulled up on it before. The vast majority of Canberra's workforce live here year round, and do not "commute" from Sydney.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 7):
You would have thought this route would have service given that WLG is one of Australia's state capitals

  

As it is Canberra lacks service to HBA and DRW. Both were previously operated (by DJ and QF respectively), but discontinued.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Motorhussy
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:03 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 47):
But quite a few smaller countries that lack political and economic ties with our region don't have representation in New Zealand, just as Australia (and premsumably New Zealand?) have very few diplomatic missions in African and Latin American countries.

You're right which is why you'll notice I said "most". I'm a Kiwi diplobrat who for many years grew up in Canberra. While in diplomacy I may sometimes fail, I do know this subject matter.

And of Canberra, I went back as a tourist last year and really enjoyed it. Italian & Sons and Eighty-6 are two of the best restaurants. There are excellent MTB tracks and bush walks, stunning galleries/museums and tours.

Back to SQ and the new route, as I said on the New Zealand Av thread...

Quote:
If the figures start to add up correctly for the two capitals, we may end up first with a daily service for the two, then the start of two discrete services.
come visit the south pacific
 
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DolphinAir747
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SQ Announce Canberra and Wellington B777 services

Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:06 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 47):
As it is Canberra lacks service to HBA and DRW. Both were previously operated (by DJ and QF respectively), but discontinued.

I've flown HBA MEL CBR before, as a matter of fact. But WLG is much larger than either HBA or DRW, no?

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